|
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by medic1852 on Mar 15th, 2005, 6:02pm Ok let me start with an apology to everyone I am about to offend. But Lizzie put me up on my soapbox and I wont be able to rest until I get this off my chest. First off to blame a gun on someone’s death is the most idiotic thing I have ever heard of. There have been countless people killed with other things as well. To name a few, hammers, knives, screwdrivers, axes, drills, just to name a few. What do all of these have in common? They are all tools just like a gun. Yes a gun is a tool; it has been used for years to put food on people’s tables, to protect families, to put clothes on people’s backs. I was raised with guns, I am not kidding when I say my father let me cut my teeth on a colt revolver. I have been shooting since I was 2 years old. I have been hunting since I was 5. Guns are a large part of my life. While I was in the Marine Corps I lost a good friend to hand gun accident. It was not the gun that killed this friend. We were all sitting around a table and one of the guys was asking about a handgun that one of my other friends had for sale. It was a Taurus .45 caliber automatic. We all had been drinking most of the day; the gun was unloaded by the owner and laid on the table. It was passed around and about 2 or 3 beers later the owner picked it up, and dry fired it, after all he unloaded it. Except it wasn’t a dry fire, someone had reloaded it. The gun went off and went through the table into my friend’s stomach. Now a .45 makes a nice hole and tears a lot of things up. My friend bled out before the ambulance could arrive. Was it the gun that killed my friend, no it was and accident. There are hundreds of people killed yearly by automobiles in accidents, plane and train crashes and sinking boats, should we outlaw them as well? I got an idea lets all curl up in a nice little plastic bubble and pretend that it is a perfect world and we will all be safe. It is not the gun that kills people it is people who kill people. Make the criminal pay for his crime not me. I dare you to come to my house and tell me I can’t have a gun, come get them! [smiley=bigguns.gif] Respectfully Submitted Rodger |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Hirvimaki on Mar 15th, 2005, 6:10pm No argument from me. I'm a life-time member of the NRA. Hirvimaki-Isi |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by medic1852 on Mar 15th, 2005, 6:12pm on 03/15/05 at 18:10:50, Hirvimaki wrote:
Damn I had you all wrong..I had you pegged as a tree hugging hippy. :-/ |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by nani on Mar 15th, 2005, 6:14pm Hey! Watch it, Rog....I'm a tree hugging hippie... ;;D |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Lizzie2 on Mar 15th, 2005, 6:16pm My guess is that you are also against OSHA, the National Transportation Safety Board, and other efforts out there to improve safety in our society.... When I got stuck with a needle...guess who's fault that was? Technically? If we really want to get technical about it? Mine. I stuck myself with a contaminated needle. But as it turns out, those lancets I got stuck with are actually recently against OSHA regulations. And yes, public health departments are responsible for complying with OSHA. It just takes one person who got stuck to make one phone call.... If the "dangerous objects" aren't a problem...then why do we have needleless systems in hospitals and all these safety locks to protect needles and needle accidents? Why not go back to the days where everything was just lying out in the open...and a whole hell of a lot more people got hurt or killed because we didn't know jack shit about safety. Sue me for thinking we should at least make an EFFORT to educate people about safety and trying to make this world a safer place. But I guess if it were in your hands, we probably would not have car airbags or regulations about child car seats either, then.... It makes just about as much sense... It's just that when it comes to guns, people get overly defensive... |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by medic1852 on Mar 15th, 2005, 6:23pm Lizzie dont get me started about OSHA and safety. I for one know all about safety standard. I work in the back of a moving ambulance. Not in the nice clean sterile hospital. I have never been stuck in the back of a MOVING ambulance. You would be one of those people who recomend that the lawnmower have the label warning you about the moving blades underneath. So that they dont stick there hands underneath and get them cut off. My point is this.. I will make this as simple as possible and use capital letters so that you can understand. "PEOPLE NEED TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THERE ACTIONS, NOT ME. GUNS DONT KILL PEOPLE. PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE." By the way I am not a member of the NRA. I just want everyone to be responsible for themselves. It is not the goverments place to babysit me! Rodger |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Lizzie2 on Mar 15th, 2005, 6:30pm My roommate is an EMT..worked for the ambulance for years. She will be a flight nurse by the end of her return duty to Einstein Hospital in North Philly for her scholarship here. Her dad is a state trooper. One of her recent boyfriends was also a state trooper. Know what? We had guns in this apartment. I've been in her dad's van when his uniform and gun are right in the back seat. Diane's take on this would be that children of cops who know how to safely store and protect their guns are not the ones dying. Diane doesn't even know where her dad keeps the gun. I'm pretty sure my own father owns a gun, and I've never found it...although I've found enough to be pretty sure he has one. It is rediculous to think that a 4 year old child who accidentally shot and killed his mother with a gun should be the one held accountable for her death. I think the people responsible are the family for their improper safety when storing a gun so a FOUR YEAR OLD wouldn't wind up finding it and shooting his mother. Diane (my EMT roommate who works for the ambulance about 80 hours a week) is the one who told me that OSHA has now banned the use of unprotected lancets in public health settings...ie., hospitals, health districts, and YES even ambulances. I guess I'll remember next time I discharge a new mom to tell her it isn't really that big a deal if she buckles the safety seat into the back seat of her car with her 2 day old infant in it.... Asking for safety is not unreasonable...and this is done by people being ACCOUNTABLE for safety... Why do we have to wait for the harm to be done? They should be held accountable for not storing the gun safely in the first place...not the child being held accountable once he shot his mom. He didn't even know what in hell death meant! It's called prevention...and it is NOT a bad thing. |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by medic1852 on Mar 15th, 2005, 6:37pm Education in saftey is not a bad thing I never said it was. What I said is that guns are not bad things, cars are not bad things. Stupidity is a bad thing. But it is not the goverments place to ensure that we are not stupid. By the way needless and saftey needles are not the standard. OSHA has not gotten fully involved as of yet, they recomend we use them but do not require it. |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Lizzie2 on Mar 15th, 2005, 6:49pm And had you read through all my original posts, I said that I was not for the government placing a ban on guns. In fact I said that would probably be rather counterproductive...since the ban on illegal drugs has obviously gotten us real far... What I was SAYING was that my cousin would not have been killed that day if there had not been a gun in his house. His father chose to buy and own a gun. The kids were able to find it, and although they thought it was unloaded, it was loaded. Stephen's best friend shot him by accident and killed him. Seriously...his father can own the gun all he wants. I don't care. I'm not asking the government to step in and say he isn't allowed to have it. But I do think that we should be working much harder to educate people about safety and guns in the home...especially where children are concerned. It's a fact that Stephen would be alive today if they hadn't had access to that gun. His father has every right to own one, but had he not owned one...or at least been better about securing it away from children, then Stephen wouldn't be dead! I'm not saying the government should go in and take his gun away. But I do think that much GREATER effort needs to be made about how to handle guns in the home. That's the responsibility of everyone in society. Maybe his father was being stupid by not protecting that weapon....maybe he doesn't have the knowledge necessary to know how to properly secure a gun....someone needs to be out there teaching people about safety. I know that my entire job is pretty much geared towards teaching people about basic safety, even when it should be common sense. Sometimes common sense doesn't agree with people...and then really bad things happen. So I was just trying to say from the start that, yes, Stephen would still be alive if the gun wasn't in the home. However, the government should not ban the gun...but instead, society as a whole should take more responsibility for educating those who choose to own a gun about how to properly take care of it! Yes, my uncle should and does feel accountable for the accident that happened that day. As does the other child who shot my cousin. But, as has been stated...it was an accident....albeit most likely a preventable one if more steps had been taken to ensure basic safety. Let's not argue about this anymore.... I don't think we are at complete odds of opinions... I'm not saying the government should ban all guns, and you aren't saying that education is a bad thing. It's just that I feel these issues need to be addressed in a form of prevention and not reactionary. Lizzie |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Redneck on Mar 15th, 2005, 6:52pm O tay, open mouth insert foot. wtf does a lancet have to do with a freaking gun? I been in public health for 24 years, I have taken guns away from patients. I ain't never seen anyone shot with a lancet, syringe, vacutainer needle, etc. I have drawn blood on the back of my truck, in a cotton field on a running tractor. I have been stuck with a dirty needle. I still own and use my weapons, and will continue to. Everyone is entitled to their opinion as long as they dont force theirs on me. I just don't see the connection. |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Lizzie2 on Mar 15th, 2005, 7:12pm on 03/15/05 at 18:52:51, Redneck wrote:
LOL it's okay and no, Roger and I do not hate each other. :) It's okay to have a "heated" discussion once in awhile! The reason why we are talking about lancets, needles and guns in the same conversation is because I was coming from a standpoint of basic safety...not just about guns, but about anything that could put someone's life/health/etc at risk. And yeah...contaminated needles can be dangerous... I'll state plainly that because of my incident, I now have to take Combivir (an AZT combination) for a month and today was my 3rd week of appointments for testing/results/counseling, but I still have 4 more appointments to go before I will be "in the clear" so to speak. My point is that if the health district would spend a penny to invest in safer products, then we wouldn't have to spend thousands to treat those stuck by contaminated needles... Combivir is $150 a week...and that's just taking it twice a day. Basic safety...that's all I think I was trying to say. It applies to every aspect of life...be it needles, guns, bleach, cars, planes, whatever. I am in nursing because I believe that "prevention" is the best way to save a life. :) |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by karma on Mar 15th, 2005, 7:13pm Since cars are so often brought up in comparing death statistics why not make the requirements equeal. In order to drive a car you must pass a test. This is required to get a license. In order to license a car you must have insurance and the car must pass inspection. ( note that this does not stop an unlicensed thief from driving an unlicensed car) Make recreational gunowners pass a safety and practucal test in order to receive a license. Require recreational gunowners to have insurance for accidental harm or death. (liability) Require gunowners to submit the licensed firearm and themselves to annual inspections and a user safety test. This won't stop the illegal posession of firearms but it will cost gunowners enough time and money that they will think twice about exactly why they need a firearm. |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Lizzie2 on Mar 15th, 2005, 7:22pm Yeah.. Karma, that's a good point, too. Actually, if done correctly, there are a number of clearances and papers that have to be filed and approved before someone can own a gun legally...and there is a waiting period. I'm not sure if that is a state-based law...so in PA maybe we have such strict regulations but maybe not in other states? I'm not sure.... But what we discussed in our nursing class the other day is that gun laws really would only reach people who don't really need gun laws because they already follow them. It's the crazies on the street using guns left and right to kill anyone they don't like who need more strict gun control...but even if we had more gun laws, these people would never abide by them. So...yeah, in a way...creating more gun laws really is just like putting more and more strict bans on Cocaine. Those who use it are going to use it regardless of the laws out there. Although hopefully the laws do allow at least some of the population to think before acting! |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Ueli on Mar 15th, 2005, 7:34pm I'll take over the soap box. "It is not the gun that kills people it is people who kill people" is about the most idiotic excuse the gunslingers can put forward. Equally idiotic is the comparison of guns with tool like hammers, knives, screwdrivers, axes, drills, just to name a few. These tool serve a useful purpose around the house, and only in rare cases a mentally deranged uses them to harm others. On the other hand guns are designed for killing, and hardly*) anything else but killing. Therefore, they belong only in the hand of policemen to protect the public against criminals (who have an ample supply of firearms because of the liberal laws) and the military to defend the country against aggressors (but it's wrong if they use them in an aggressive war to steal somebody else's oil wells). "There are hundreds of people killed yearly by automobiles in accidents, plane and train crashes and sinking boats". True, these useful, and mostly necessary, activities claim their victims. But using that as an excuse for "accidental" gun victims is moronic. Most people need a car to go to work, but he who has a gun in the glove compartment probably needs to compensate for a tiny dick. You need a gun to protect your family and home? Another lame argument! Does anybody have numbers of burglars killed/driven away versus numbers of accidental shootings of family members and other harmless people? *) Note, before Jackie gets mad a me again ;), there are some acceptable uses of guns, as target practice, a ritualized form of warfare, like an athlete throwing the javelin. [smiley=smokin.gif] |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Jonny on Mar 15th, 2005, 8:08pm on 03/15/05 at 19:34:38, Ueli wrote:
So what you are saying Ueli....is that we should not protect ourselves from these criminals? Is it that we should wait for the police to come and we are all dead? If I carry a gun and some nut starts shooting people....should I not kill him and save lives? As for having guns in my house......PLEASE try to enter my house if your not invited.....PLEASE!!!!! ..................................................;;D |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Lizzie2 on Mar 15th, 2005, 8:22pm I carry a MACE combination spray to take to west Philly when I'm working in the health district. Gun deaths out there? At a new rediculous high...every day. The stories on the news are almost desensitizing the community to the fact that gun violence is a BAD thing. We watch the news and then say, "oh...hmm....5 more people got shot to death...just another day in Philadelphia." Something is wrong with that, though! I'm 5'2" and not more than 120 lbs soaking wet. I am more or less defenseless against anyone who would try to attack me in a physical sense, but I do have my can of MACE. I think the odds of me being able to whip out my gun, load it, and get the safety off and then accurately aim to kill someone who was harming me (without some kind of massive training) are slim to none. If someone comes at me with a gun, providing ME personally with a gun isn't going to do one bit of difference. So I choose to be very personally aware of my surroundings and of my safety issues. In the city, I really am bothered if people walk within like 3 feet of my personal space when I don't know them. I don't really trust people down here, but at the same time...that's making me safer because I'm aware of what is going on around me at all times. I'm constantly watching. I have friends who carry guns. More power to them, I guess... They feel it is necessary for their own safety. I don't feel that my personal ownership of a gun would change my personal safety. I think my own personal awareness and taking my safety precautions to the best of my ability is the best I can do for myself. I try my very best not to put myself in any situation that is not safe.... As I've said, I'm currently at a health district which is the worst in the entire city. The population is very poor, often very violent, are victims as well as commit many crimes, carry many virulent diseases, as well as any number of other risk factors I could list.... For 3 weeks prior to coming here, I did home care. I was in the same "neighborhood" as the clientele I currently see. I was basically parking my car against the curb and bringing my bag into people's homes...sometimes I had no idea of what type of situation I would be walking into. We are taught that if something doesn't "feel" right...leave immediately and call for back-up. Do not put your life at risk just because you think you can handle it. No need to be a superhero just because you have to dress the heel ulcer on someone's foot! There are times when I don't feel as safe as I'd like...but I try to be as aware as possible. I don't feel that owning a gun would make me any more safe than I am right now. But I know it helps some people to have a much higher sense of security. To each his (or her) own! L2 :) |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Redneck on Mar 15th, 2005, 10:00pm on 03/15/05 at 20:08:49, Jonny wrote:
Well said bro ! Where I live you will be damn lucky to have a sheriff show up in 30 minutes. Nice to call the police and them show up and save you. But it ain't gonna happen here. Edit before post. young people and children have access to this. grow up, get real, all you need is to have a friend, loved one, or relative mamied or killed by the scum. Then come talk to me about compassion for the poor criminals. |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by notseinfeld on Mar 15th, 2005, 10:38pm One the few rights we do have as American citizens is the right to own guns. This was embedded in the Constitution not so we could shoot doves or have target practice but so that the people could be protect themselves against an unruly and oppressive government. Who in their right mind would feel safe living in a society where only the gov't and trickle down forces thereof had weapons? Additionally if I hear someone snooping around my house at 2:00Am that the dog doesn't eat up first I can guarantee that fate would be preferable to the back up plan which would sound something like 'Ka-boom'. |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Charlie on Mar 15th, 2005, 10:39pm Before anyone hurts themselves; I am not for banning firearms for several reasons. However, I believe guns are almost useless as personal protection. It's hard, very hard to shoot someone and even harder to kill them. It's not the movies. The comparison of other devices to a handgun is ridiculous. I'd rather any miscreant come at me with a screwdriver or lawnmower than a Beretta. Too, stating that there are (I don't know the figures. This is for illustration only) 40,000 auto crash deaths and only say 2,000 gun deaths as comparison, doesn't alter that 2,000 people were killed and are just as likely to remain that way. However, if one treats guns as a hobby or for fun....and they can be lots of fun.... great. I have my mother's 410 shotgun. Talk about something useful only for fun, that is probably it. Charlie |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by clarence on Mar 15th, 2005, 10:49pm on 03/15/05 at 18:23:36, medic1852 wrote:
Where the hell was that label when my dad stuck his fingers under the mower and cut off three of them...and then 2 weeks later when I did the SAME thing (though, in some twisted miracle, did not cut off any fingers)? I know, I'm an idiot. Casey |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Lizzie2 on Mar 15th, 2005, 10:51pm on 03/15/05 at 22:49:32, clarence wrote:
Proof that safety labels are, indeed, important! [smiley=laugh.gif] (Casey, I promise I'm not laughing at your and your father's misfortune...just thought it was ironic that you can relate to that specific example!) How about that "Do not remove under penalty of law" tag on the mattress? I love that Serta sheep commercial... Nothing like a good warning label. ;) |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by KingOfPain on Mar 15th, 2005, 10:57pm Colorado Colorado Statutes : TITLE 18 CRIMINAL CODE : ARTICLE 1 PROVISIONS APPLICABLE TO OFFENSES GENERALLY : PART 7 JUSTIFICATION AND EXEMPTIONS FROM CRIMINAL RESPONSIBILITY : 18-1-704.5. Use of deadly physical force against an intruder. Terms: statute (§18-1-704.5) 18-1-704.5. Use of deadly physical force against an intruder. Statute text (1) The general assembly hereby recognizes that the citizens of Colorado have a right to expect absolute safety within their own homes. (2) Notwithstanding the provisions of section 18-1-704, any occupant of a dwelling is justified in using any degree of physical force, including deadly physical force, against another person when that other person has made an unlawful entry into the dwelling, and when the occupant has a reasonable belief that such other person has committed a crime in the dwelling in addition to the uninvited entry, or is committing or intends to commit a crime against a person or property in addition to the uninvited entry, and when the occupant reasonably believes that such other person might use any physical force, no matter how slight, against any occupant. (3) Any occupant of a dwelling using physical force, including deadly physical force, in accordance with the provisions of subsection (2) of this section shall be immune from criminal prosecution for the use of such force. (4) Any occupant of a dwelling using physical force, including deadly physical force, in accordance with the provisions of subsection (2) of this section shall be immune from any civil liability for injuries or death resulting from the use of such force. ======================================= Since the Make My Day Law came into force, burglary has declined by almost half in Oklahoma. In 1987, there were 58,333 cases; in 2000, just 31,661. There have now been at least 11 cases where intruders have been shot dead in Oklahoma and the householders who pulled the trigger have escaped any sanction under the Make My Day law. ======================================= Overwhelming support for 'make my day' burglary law Karyn Miller and Patrick Hennessy, The Sunday Telegraph Sunday 7 Nov 2004 An overwhelming majority of the public backs the Sunday Telegraph's campaign to give people more rights to protect their homes and families from violent intruders, according to a new survey. The ICM poll shows that 71 per cent of voters believe that householders should have the "unqualified right to use force, including deadly force if necessary" - against burglars. The wording of the survey question mirrors legislation, introduced in the state of Oklahoma in 1988 and known as the "Make my Day Law", which has halved burglaries. An even greater proportion of those surveyed - 81 per cent - say that intruders should lose the right to sue for anything that the householder does in self-defence. ____________________________________________ I live in a Make My Day law state. Come into my house uninvited, you die. Plain & simple. I live in America [and a state] where SOME people's opinion's & thoughts do not risk my safety. You don't like our laws? Don't come to America [or my state]. We don't want you. You want to live? Stay the f*ck out of my house! |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by catlind on Mar 15th, 2005, 11:20pm on 03/15/05 at 18:16:26, Lizzie2 wrote:
Ok, I know that I'm going to get flamed for this but I really don't care. You talk about safety and education and making the world a safer place. In your nursing thread you posted this: on 03/14/05 at 19:24:57, Lizzie2 wrote:
I'm not a nurse and I'm not a doctor and I'm not a pharmacist, but everything you can find on the drug lortab and percocet will tell you the same thing. This isn't the first thread you've said that lortab is oxycodone in either, so I doubt it's a simple mistake of typing the wrong thing. Lortab is hydrocodone and tylenol, and percocet is oxycodone and tylenol. Now according to the pharmacy students, pharmacist and pain doctor, and 3 other doctors I've talked to, oxycodone is stronger than hydrocodone. You want safety, then start in the profession you are studying and stop worrying about guns. Medication errors kill thousands every year. You regularly discuss medication advice with sufferers here and when I read this comment in your nursing thread, then read your comment here...well sorry, the hypocricy was too much to take. It isn't the first time you've mislabeled lortab as oxycodone. |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by cootie on Mar 15th, 2005, 11:34pm Don't mind the gun.....beware of OWNER !! I sure the hell got nothin against guns.....we have MANY......most accidents I know of with guns around here jus simply wouldn't of happen'd 'without' the gun. But then.....they wouldn't of happen'd without the person either. What goes around comes around Pam Yeah percocet and loratab are da same.....I 'think' both come in 5 and 10 mg's. Whatever.......... |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Drk^Angel on Mar 15th, 2005, 11:41pm All'z I know is this... Guns don't kill ppl... Bullets do... Ban bullets now! PFDAN................................ Drk^Angel P.S. This has been a public service announcement brought to you by the Biggest Dumbass of the Day Association. DA |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Donna_D. on Mar 15th, 2005, 11:42pm ;;D DD |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Lizzie2 on Mar 15th, 2005, 11:45pm on 03/15/05 at 23:20:07, catlind wrote:
Actually I've never taken nor even had any experience with Lortab until one week ago today. Yes, there was a discrepency where I had misread the label on the bottle between hydrocodone and oxycodone on my own bottles. I may make comments about medications, but I don't give advice. That's something I am very careful about. I would never recommend anything to anyone without saying that I cannot give medical advice and please see your doctor first. I'm frankly a little surprised by this attack. Yes, I missed the name of the med on a day when I was in huge amount of pain on my own medication bottles...not on bottles where I was discussing this with anyone else. I've never taken Lortab before. It was addressed among our host group last night as I was going over concerns with a few friends of mine for our migraine/headache site after the surgery. Most medication information I post generally comes right out of a textbook or our online micromedex right in front of me. I do spend a lot of time looking up and working with medications, so in the future I will avoid posting any of that knowledge to your posts about any medications or therapies. I apologize for mis-naming Lortab last night when I was in a lot of pain and pretty upset about several things that had gone on that day. I also apologize for not going ahead and correcting my post once I realized at about 2am last night that it was the wrong name after emailing back and forth with my friend from the other site, as I said. We work on medication errors every day in our profession. As a student and soon to be new nurse, you can bet that I double check meds about a billion times still...as most students do...because none of us wants to be responsible for causing a med error. I've seen it happen to nurses who were working pretty quickly to get things done, and they were devastated by what had happened, even though nobody was actually harmed by the mistake. There are many more instances where people are harmed, so yes it is an area we focus on constantly. In October, we did entire presentations for each clinical group on medication errors detected on our clinical floor (telemetry at the time), how these errors were reported (or not reported) and the subsequent actions taken. I'm sorry to be upset about guns because that's how I lost my cousin. I guess that makes it an overly sensitive topic for me. But whatever... I'm sorry you feel like I do such a disservice to everyone here... Carrie |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Gator on Mar 15th, 2005, 11:52pm on 03/15/05 at 19:13:27, karma wrote:
We're already losing more and more of our basic freedoms because a bunch of weak-willed sheep are perfectly happy to give away their freedom AND mine for THE ILLUSION OF SAFETY. This kind of crap is just one more way the government can keep it's subjects down. I say subjects because we are slowly losing any claim to the title of citizen. I would never willingly agree to this kind of intrusion into my personal liberties. You can regulate guns and anything else you choose to whatever degree you choose. If a person wants something you have bad enough, that person will try to take it - law or no law. You know why there is less crime out in the country? Because there is a very real threat to the criminal that he or she may get their asses blown away breaking into someone's house. It's called Deterrence. Seems the cities could use a little more deterrence these days. |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Donna_D. on Mar 15th, 2005, 11:52pm [smiley=cowboy.gif] DD |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Lizzie2 on Mar 15th, 2005, 11:57pm on 03/15/05 at 23:34:20, cootie wrote:
Hey coots, No..Cat is right. I misread my bottles last night when I initially posted about the meds because I was pretty out of it and rather upset about some stuff that had gone on that day as far as school is concerned. Anyhow... Lortab is hydrocodone/tylenol and my dose concentration was 7.5mg hydrocodone/500mg tylenol. The Percocet is oxycodone/tylenol and my dose concentration for THAT one is 5mg oxycodone/325mg tylenol. Sorry for the confusion... L2/Carrie |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Donna_D. on Mar 16th, 2005, 12:13am And this smiley is for Den, cause you KNOW he is gonna show up in this thread sooner or later! http://logo.cafepress.com/3/114872.174993.gif I got plenty more where these came from !!! ;;D DD |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Gator on Mar 16th, 2005, 12:22am http://www.brightok.net/~mnjday/Cut%20court%20costs.JPG |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by cootie on Mar 16th, 2005, 12:26am Ahhh taht's ok Lizzie.....looks like I dunno what I'm talkin bout with the meds......gettin all my hydros and oxy's confused.......I have percs for my back and sum other stuff to rotate when needed. I did NOT want the high dose of tylonal.....doc said no more them 1400 mgs a day to stay in a safe level. I don't like ridein along safe level berms that close tho. Whatever......... Anyhow hear bout the case where the night shift nurses were givein patients Maylox to get even with the day nurses ?? Talk about a deadly weapon !! That is jus WRONG ! Oh my what a mess !!! Stop or I'll SQUIRT Pam |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Gator on Mar 16th, 2005, 12:37am http://www.brightok.net/~mnjday/shotgroup.JPG |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by KingOfPain on Mar 16th, 2005, 12:55am http://i10.ebayimg.com/02/i/01/2f/4b/cd_1.JPG Nuff said. |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Cathi04 on Mar 16th, 2005, 1:12am OHH, NOOO you dont, KOP!!!! You cannot have the last word.I want it..and I want it NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THE LAST WORD! LOL...soo...there! :P Cathi |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Charlie on Mar 16th, 2005, 1:26am You know, aside from being infantile, these bumper stickers....One I remember is "A blonde in every pond"...... some years ago has zero effect in promoting the cause. Gun shows aren't attended by anti-gun people, who by the way, aren't all nuts. Neither is the NRA except for the silly behavior of Charlton Heston, some time ago. The appeal is only to those already in the choir. Bear in mind that I am not for banning guns, especially to NRA members. For the most part, selling to one is the safest place for a gun to go. Interesting statistic for the most dangerous states 2004-2005. New York rank: # 28, last execution 1963 Texas rank: # 9, last execution 2005 Oh my God! http://www.netsync.net/users/charlies/gifs/russian.gif Charlie |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Lizzie2 on Mar 16th, 2005, 1:44am on 03/15/05 at 23:52:22, Gator wrote:
Hmmm....I think the cities are pretty well on top of the whole "eye for an eye" mentality. This was the leading story on all our news channels tonight: http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/news/31505-violence.html Area Violence Swells PHILADELPHIA (AP) _ March 15, 2005 — After a week in which authorities said there were 18 homicides in Philadelphia, the city's district attorney, police commissioner and top homicide investigator pleaded for more cooperation from the public to solve the crimes. And actually after that was published on the Philadelphia ABC-WPVI website tonight, the news tonight added 4 more gun-related deaths, which makes 22 homicides in 8 days. Camden...which is basically New Jersey's personal extension of Philadelphia, was ranked as the #1 most dangerous city in the nation not that long ago! Not that I'm a big fan of Mayor Street here in Philly, but one thing he did say tonight on the news reports hit home. He said that a big part of the problem is that a LOT of people have guns, and then people are getting into arguments, and because they have the guns available...they get mad at the person they are arguing with, and then they kill them. I can see where this concern is legit because if I were to get into an argument with, for instance, my roommate tomorrow night....we might fight like crazy (doubtful because we dont' really fight...but just theoretically), but at the end of our fight...even if we couldn't stand each other...we just go in our rooms and shut the doors. Out in the streets, this same scenario could happen...except one or both parties has a gun. The argument gets them heated up and upset, and instead of just walking away or resolving the fight in a different way, they simply pull out the gun and shoot the person who pissed them off. I guess that's one way to handle an argument.... I just thought it was interesting that this was the top news story tonight after this little "debate" here today. |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by sandie99 on Mar 16th, 2005, 2:12am My dad used to hunt. I had a licence for his rifle after he died. He taught me how to use an airgun when I was old enough. PE teacher took me and 20 other girls to a shooting range once; she thought it was important that we'd knew how to use weapons... Having said that, I am against firearms. There are too many lives lost because of accidents.... :( Every time I watch Bowling for Columbine I thank God that we don't have a gun at my house anymore. :) |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Gator on Mar 16th, 2005, 4:59am Oh, yeah, they are on top of it alright. People afraid to report a crime or come forward as a witness. I can only say I am glad I do not live in a big city. It seems like being crammed that closely together warps peoples' sense of right and wrong. Something is seriously wrong when you have to offer to move people out of the state just to get them to cooperate in the investigation of the death of a child. I don't understand how anyone could live in a place where they walk in that much fear every day of their lives? Charlie, the bumper snickers were more of a chuckle for those so inclined. Preaching to the choir as you put it. I suppose you found absolutely none of those the least bit funny. I think they are humerous and some of them do espouse a philosophy I believe in, but I wouldn't use the phrases to try to win over converts. The ones I posted are a hold over from my law enforcement days. You have to have a warped sense of humor to do that job for very long, anyways. As far as statistics go, we can pick and choose statistics from whatever source seems to support our arguments. Fact is, we agree that guns are not inherently bad and that banning them would be wrong. Sandie, how can you take a movie with the title "Bowling for Columbine" seriously. The movie is not a documentary, it is a film that either intentionally twists the truth or just flat out lies about people and events. If you base your opinions of this country, firearms or anything else on anything Michael Moore has to say, you need to do some research and re-evaluation of both your opinions and of Moore himself. Here is one of many websites that systematically expose lie after lie in the works of Michael Moore. http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Lizzie2 on Mar 16th, 2005, 6:54am Well the reason I posted the article about the recent violence wave in our city is because above, people are saying that "out in the rural areas" (and I've lived in both....) it is okay to shoot someone who happens to do something wrong to violate our privacy/rights/etc. Those aren't the exact words, but that's more or less the impression I'm getting...unless maybe things were said in a more joking tone, but I didn't read it that way. I don't think, in the city, we need to encourage any further deterrance by telling people it is acceptable to use your gun to shoot the first person who opens the front door of your home without you saying it is okay. In the city, for one, that happens a lot -- that would lead to a lot more dead people. And also, we have quite enough gun-related deaths....I just really don't think we need to put shot guns on the truck rack in the city and suggest that we use MORE guns. We already have enuff problems here, TYVM. I've never been afraid to live in the city. A lot of this stuff happens either right where I live or work. I see it on the news and think, "gee I was right around the corner there this morning...!" My first week of working in the ER here in 2003, they brought in a man who was dead on arrival and shot twice in the face by a cop for fleeing a scene of domestic violence. When his family came in to see how he was doing, they were throwing up everywhere...etc. It was awful to see that tragedy. Then, during that same accident...as soon as we knew the guy was being brought here, half my friends in registration shouted the street number/section of the city where the gun shooting occurred. Then they all called home to make sure that nobody in their own family was hurt...because they didn't want to find out by walking back there and looking at the person. That's fear. It's real and it's a part of city life. Most people who've lived in the city forever wouldn't say it slows them down or stops them....they've sort of adopted it under their belts. My ex-boyfriend (and very best friend) James could write a short novel about why the black community in Philadelphia isn't overly cooperative with the cops as far as providing information goes. In this community, it runs more deep than simple fear of retaliation. These people see the cops as the enemy. They call the cops when there is violence in the neighborhood....the cops don't come or do nothing (this is just the word being passed around the neighborhood)...and then when they do show up, they want to interview everyone around about what happened. It is a regional/neighborhood mentality for part of the reason why people aren't always overly helpful when it comes to law enforcement. So talking about shooting people up for this or that, while I suppose can be amusing in some areas of the US, is definitely not very amusing in the big cities. Out there it is that deterrance you speak of. People talk big... It's okay to have the mentality that if one's rights are violated in the slightest, then we can pump them full of bullets to show them how very wrong they were. That mentality already runs like poison through the streets here...except it is the opposite. It's not just a threat...it's what actually happens. That's why we have 22 gun related homicides in the last 8 days. It's not any kind of humour here...when someone tells you that they have a gun and they're pissed off at you for something, judging by how well you know that person, your best bet is to get the hell away from them...and fast. So living in the city vs. living in a rural area is an entirely different issue as far as guns are concerned. Crime here is obviously magnified. I don't think living in the city removes the majority of people's idea of "right vs. wrong." I think there are a TON of things that happen in the city that change a person...but most people still know their right hand from their left. Not everyone is a murderer...although some days it feels like that! :) OK gotta get in the shower...because I'm back out to the health district today... Or, back to the front lines as I like to refer to it. It's not pretty, but it's a job that somebody has to do. Fortunately for me, it's only temporary! L2 :) |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by don on Mar 16th, 2005, 7:04am Quote:
If I were violently attacked then that is pretty much what I would want the cops to do. I work in in a predominantly white Irish/Italian town. Cops dont always show up there either. Its a man power allocation issue. Its simple economics. Dont blame the cops. Ask City Hall why there are not enough of them. |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Lizzie2 on Mar 16th, 2005, 7:17am on 03/16/05 at 07:04:53, don wrote:
Oh I'm in complete agreement with ya there. When I walked down South Street (as a mistake) during the greek picnic...I was very happy to see two cops every 10 feet. James can explain it better than I can...because that's the community he grew up in....I only walked into it much more recently! |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by don on Mar 16th, 2005, 7:33am There are also a lot of old time wise guys in this town. Both Irish ans Italian. They all still have a 9 MM stashed somewhere close to them but they dont start blasting because some one with the wrong color do-rag is on their side of the street. It's a differant mentality today. It's not the gun, it's the mentality behind it that is a threat. |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Opus on Mar 16th, 2005, 8:22am on 03/15/05 at 19:22:09, Lizzie2 wrote:
I'm not picking on you Lizzie, but your post made me think. Are you all talking about normal guns like rifles and shotguns or handguns? I see no reason for anyone to own a hand gun, if you need a hand gun for protection then in my opinion you should move. Yes there are gun deaths where I live, but they are all drug related ( both parties were involved in drugs ) or it was someone shooting a cop ( yes cops need hand guns). Actually one of the police deaths around here was caused by a car. Where I live now you can hunt with a handgun ( not sure why anyone bothers) but most of the big game season is shotgun only. There isn't even a reason for a high powered rifle, and I found out when I needed one that there was none to borrow. Since I don't hunt we got rid of the shotgun, and only have the .22 rifle for protection against weasels in the chicken coup. I would never want to be without it, because you never know when things may change and you will need to hunt to eat. Anyway, I will never agree with anyone who wants to take away the .22, but if I am required to licence it I would. As for gun training, everyone who has a gun takes the hunter safety course required by their state, right? Whats the point of owning a gun if you can't ever hunt with it. Opus/Paul |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by don on Mar 16th, 2005, 8:33am Quote:
Move to where? Violent crime is prevelant all over the country. Can single mom with 2 or 3 kids just "move"? Can a working class family who are just making ends meet afford to "move"? Can coal miners whose lively hood depends on the location of the mines just "move"? Can the elderly living on limited income whose social and medical supports are community based just "move"? Can a lobster fisherman just "move" to Nebraska because the crime rate is lower than Maines? Are all these people not entitled to live where they choose and defend themselves if neccesary? "Just move" makes no sense at all. |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by floridian on Mar 16th, 2005, 8:48am on 03/16/05 at 07:33:34, don wrote:
Have to agree with Don (as much as it pains me ;) ) The idea that guns reliably deter crime or lead to stability is simplistic - everyone in Iraq is armed to the teeth, and while it makes sense for the average Abdullah to pack heat and might occasionally deter a crime, it hasn't reduced the overall crime rate or improved security at all. When everyone carries, the criminal element changes their operating procedures. The idea that guns are themselves a big problem is also simplistic. In countries that have a civil society, guns are generally stored and used in a responsible manner, and not a big issue. |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Opus on Mar 16th, 2005, 8:57am on 03/16/05 at 08:33:19, don wrote:
Sorry Don, I forgot that Boston is a city with an actual mine (http://www.masspike.com/bigdig/index.html) right in the middle of it, but believe me that is not the norm. Because Living were I am is hard, especially with out a car and the nearest store is 15 miles away, I was thinking of moving to a city. But now I would rather live in the woods than be near people like you who live in fear and carry handguns. Opus/Paul |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by nani on Mar 16th, 2005, 9:09am on 03/16/05 at 08:48:02, floridian wrote:
Which I believe was the point of Bowling for Columbine. Michael Moore did not set out to make an anti-gun movie. His question was....they have guns in Canada, too. Why isn't Canada plagued with the gun violence that America is? Answer: America has become a culture of fear. |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Donna_D. on Mar 16th, 2005, 9:15am on 03/16/05 at 01:26:29, Charlie wrote:
Gator is right, the bumper stickers were more of an attempt to lighten the mood around here. However, since that didn't work..... Here is something you ought to know about the last person executed in Texas. THEN you decide if you want him walking around on the streets of YOUR town. Texas is a capital punishment state. And yes, the last person executed was on 02/17/2005. His name was Kenneth Bagwell. He was convicted in September of 1995 for the deaths of his mother, his half sister, her four year old daughter and a 14 year old girl, also related. His mother and the 14 year old girl had been beaten and strangled so violently that their necks were broken. The 14 year old girl had also been sexually assaulted. His sister had been shot twice in the head and the four year old girl's skull had been crushed with a hammer and metal exercise bar. Records indicate that he had gone to his mother's home to borrow money and killed the four when she refused his request. I, for one, think the he got his just desserts. Next time, however, if any "non-capital punishment" state wants to foot the financial bill to keep a scumbag like him in prison for the rest of his life, I am sure the government of Texas could try to make some arrangements. Prior to that the last execution in the State of Texas was on 01/25/2005. Troy Kunkle shot a man in the back of his head while robbing him. He and some friends were riding around SPECIFICALLY looking for someone to rob, btw... After shooting his victim he reportedly said "the murder was beautiful" and "another day, another death, another sorrow, another breath." Just be glad we killed the son-of-a bitch before he had a chance to strike again. Come to Texas and kill someone, you will die. Come to Texas and break into a gun owners house, you PROBABLY will die, too. Only difference is, the taxpayers don't have to foot the bill to keep these offenders alive for the 10 years it takes for them to exhaust all their appeals processes... and still be found guilty of the original crime. Texan for guns and capital punishment, [smiley=cowboy.gif] DD Modified because I can't type or spell when on my soapbox! |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by rickyshot on Mar 16th, 2005, 9:52am Here Here Donna D. I was in a shelter for six weeks when I came to Canada and many of the women there had violent SO's. One evening one of the women's husbands got ahold of her 16 year old son and got the address to the shelter. He called making threats. We called the police. Nothing could be done. PS in the middle of the night one of the residents (dumb shit) opened a window and set off the alarms scaring us all to death. The poor wife of the violent man ran into a closet cowering and it took us a half hour to coax her out. The alarm goes right to the police station and it took 15 minutes for a response. A lot of damage could have been done if some fool with a gun entered or even without a gun. No thanks honey I will keep my gun close by and if some fool enters my house illegally BAM. WTF..... [smiley=bigguns.gif] BTW I live in Canada and the reasone there is less crime is because they only have 32 million people across a big area of land. In the last two months here in Montreal we have had a rash of attacks on the elderly in the subway systems. The security (what a friggin joke) does not carry firearms. Sitting ducks. The little scumbags who beat these elderly near to literal death should have had their heads blown off with the quickness. Fuckers..... |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by rickyshot on Mar 16th, 2005, 9:55am Oh I do agree though that people who obtain firearms legally should be required to take a gun safety course and register their firearms. Responsible ownership. |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by rickyshot on Mar 16th, 2005, 10:00am PPS Yeahh I am a Georgia Sourthern yahoo who aint giving up the gun. Bite me. |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Drk^Angel on Mar 16th, 2005, 10:33am Okay... Why don't we all calm down... I know what we need... We all just need to sit down, take a deep breath, and play a bit of GTA San Andreas... PFDAN...................................... Drk^Angel |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by ExplodingEyeBall on Mar 16th, 2005, 10:51am on 03/16/05 at 09:55:34, rickyshot wrote:
How about if all gang bangers have to meet the same requirements and take courses on how to aim when they shoot. This way, drive by shootings won't end with innocent bystanders getting shot. Only other gang bangers will get hit. Eventually, they exterminate each other. Problem solved. |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by vietvet2tours on Mar 16th, 2005, 11:02am Just a little more on gun ownership and the paperwork involved in getting a gun. Here in Montana ya look in the classifieds,pick the piece ya want, take the correct amount of paper with ya and trade the paper for the piece and walk out the door. No names just cash. |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Hirvimaki on Mar 16th, 2005, 11:33am on 03/15/05 at 18:12:54, medic1852 wrote:
I'm a conservative trapped in a liberal's body. Most people who just "see" me assume I'm a tree hugging hippie, but if you ever talk to me (or read my posts on political things), you can tell I'm not. One of the first things Lil'E (my wife) learned when we moved here from Finland was how to shoot a gun. (And there is almost nothing hotter than a sexy blonde shooting a 9mm!) Hirvimaki-Isi |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Roxy on Mar 16th, 2005, 12:25pm http://www.collectorimages.com/465.jpg Just thought I'd add my 2 cents here. I just got back home from living in New Orleans for about six months. I would have felt better if my 12 gauge had been leaning against my headboard like it is at home. New Orleans can be scary as hell when you live there. My husband always says...."Nothing to scare an intruder away like a scared woman on the wrong end of a shotgun." We live on a ranch, so we keep quite a few firearms....but no pistols. We also keep everything locked in a large gun safe, except for my one shotgun. I don't work around this place, especially this time of year, without either the shotgun or a .22 within reach. We have rabid skunks, rattlesnakes and coyotes everywhere. For some strange reason, I don't like to take them on with a stick or shovel. |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Alien Space Babe on Mar 16th, 2005, 1:33pm BRAVO for this conversation! Many different philosophies regarding guns and gun control have been expressed. I have little experience with firearms - therefore I choose not to express my opinion/philosophy.... That said... I have never had a firearm in my house - that would be really stupid with an impulsive kid with ADHD in the house. Lizzie |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Leesa on Mar 16th, 2005, 2:20pm Generally I dont do this but on this one I had to. So here goes lets see how many gun control fans I can piss off today. Medic, like you I was raised around guns. Like you cuttin teeth on a Colt well I did on a my old mans 357. Guns have always been and will ALWAYS be in my house. I have 4 kids, ALL of my kids have been raised that a gun is dangerous and you never point a gun AT someone. My older boys 16 and 14 were never really around guns till Dave got the BB gun and taught them how to use it RIGHT! Its called RESPECT!! We now own a 22, a shot gun, police issue 38 with a hair trigger, an another rifle. ALL the kids know who to use them, how to clean them and what NOT to do. No my rifles and pistols do not have trigger locks on them & never will, but my guns ARE NOT loaded while they are in my house either. But you can bet your ass that is someone come into my house that is not invited I can get to my ammo and fire! That would not hurt my feelings at all and when I aim I aim to kill so the bastard cant come back and sue me later! If you dont want to end up in a body bag then DONT break in to my house! If you look at history during the late 20's and early 30's when booze was out lawed, look at what happened. The outlaws had the booze. There was a "speak easy" on every block! Capone was one of the biggest "speak easy" operators in the country, brining booze over from Canada!! Once it was all over, Budweiser sent a horse drawn cart full of Budwieser to the White House when the ban on booze was lifted!! If guns are out lawed it will be no different!! Then what will the honest law obiding folks like me do? Let them come in to my house, rob me, kill my husband and rape me? Not this gal!So if guns are out lawed then I guess Im going to be an out law. Cuz they "the gun control folks" can have my guns when they pry them out of my cold dead fingers! Guns, like anything eles in the world can be used in the wrong way, we all know this. It all in how WE choose to use them and how we teach our children the same! A gun is a metal item, it doesnt feel or think. Its the PERSON that holds that gun that makes the choice to open fire, NOT the gun. The gun has no choice but the person DOES!!! Ita a matter of HOW you choose to use it!!! Or not use it!!! Its a CHOICE and life its self is FULL of them!! Leesa, NRA life member PS: I have 2 kids with ADD and 1 with ADHD aint hurting them any. ;) |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by cootie on Mar 16th, 2005, 2:26pm What about a sexy blonde shootin an AK-47.......yeah baaaaaaby Pam ;) Puts a lill fire in yer step I must say.............. |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by jokrs2 on Mar 16th, 2005, 2:36pm Very nice post Leesa. Let our country remain a "Republic" forever. And keep our frucking supreme court out of our houses...don't get me started >:( PFD&N's, Joe |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Gator on Mar 16th, 2005, 2:42pm Quote:
Wrong again. Anyone that watches a Michael Moore flick for anything but warped entertainment needs to VERY carefully assess the so-called facts and conclusions he makes or tricks you into making. Quote:
Quote:
Nope. No one who said that was joking as far as I know, although no one said anything about shooting someone for violating privacy/rights/etc. They said they would shoot an uninvited and unannounced intruder into their house. Quote:
Yeah, dead burglars, rapists and murderers. This is a bad thing? Quote:
http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/news/31505-violence.html Maybe not, but enough of your fellow citizens are scared enough that your city is offering to move people to other states just to get them to come forward and put the criminals behind bars. Quote:
DUH, that's what is supposed to happen. It's called investigating the crime. Cops are not mind readers or psychics. They cannot walk into a crime scene and automatically know who dunnit. But people are scared and would rather live with the crime than stand up and do something about it. Seems to me if this is true - and the newspaper you quoted says it is - they have no right to complain. Quote:
Stereotypical misconception or misrepresentation. No one gets shot for slight violations. And the guy on the receiving end isn't being "taught a lesson" He's being killed in the commission of a crime. The other idiots who may have tried it are the ones being taught a lesson. Quote:
No, the mentality of protecting your family and safeguarding yourself and your property are not running like poison through your streets. What is running through your streets like poison are senseless deaths committed by criminals and fear to do anything about them. I do not understand why some people think it's a bad idea to protect yourself, your family and your property. Luckily for my family, I am not one of them. |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by clarence on Mar 16th, 2005, 2:44pm I don't care where you stand on this issue. I just had to say, with complete seriousness: If you use Michael Moore, or any of his films, as the "authority" upon which to rest your argument, then your entire argument is without merit, and should be ignored. There are so many better "authorities." Please choose responsibly. Casey |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Leesa on Mar 16th, 2005, 2:59pm KOP, that sign is on the front gate to the "junk yard" where I live so folks know!! It seems to work pretty well too I might add. HEHEHEEE DD, I have got to get me some of them signs honey. They are kick ass!!! Heres a good one for all of ya...........Accoding the stats the county I live in (lawrence co.) here in TN has the HIGHEST un sloved murder rate in the country!! And you ask WHY I have guns? DUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH I REFUSE to be a stat!! Besides that little piece of paper with all that writing on it that says, "The right to keep and bare arms" that thing that also says I have the right to free speach, vote, go to any church I want, assemble, press etc., that thing that our founding fathers fought and died for is REALLY important to me. Off the soap box I go cuz Im fallin off its slick up here. LOL Leesa ;) |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Jonny on Mar 16th, 2005, 3:13pm on 03/16/05 at 14:44:17, clarence wrote:
ROCK ON CASEY!! [smiley=headbanger.gif] |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by vig on Mar 16th, 2005, 3:14pm I liked Roger and me. I went and saw Bowling for Columbine. I think Columbine was a terrible tragedy. But it had NOTHING to do with guns... or gun control. It was about psychopaths. So for MiCHael Moore to attempt to turn it in that direction was just plain wrong... I haven't/won't bother with Fahrenheit 911. |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Tom K on Mar 16th, 2005, 4:48pm on 03/15/05 at 23:20:07, catlind wrote:
Ban Doctors. They kill more people every year than guns and cars combined. No body is going to get my guns from me. I have been shooting since I was 5. We always had a loaded gun in the house. You know what? I never shot anyone, never even thought about shooting anyone. Why don't parents step up and teach their kids not to go into peoples shit? If the room isn't yours, you stay out. If it isn't your stuff, you don't touch it. You don't play with guns, you don't touch the guns unless you ask someone (an adult) to show it to you. That's how my sister and I were raised and it works. People should concentrate on being parents more and worrying about what everyone else is doing, less. T |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by floridian on Mar 16th, 2005, 5:00pm on 03/16/05 at 16:48:01, Tom K wrote:
Oh, yeah?? I have been going to the doctor since the day I was born. ;;D They do make mistakes, but I don't see the need to flush the baby out with the bath water. |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Lizzie2 on Mar 16th, 2005, 5:05pm Geesh...to set a few things straight. Leesa and the rest of the NRA members...I did NOT ever say that banning guns was the solution. So we can stop right there with accusing me of that. Gator...in the black community (and I even had a huge discussion about this with people at our health district today)...it isn't really just a fear issue. It is also a racial issue. Don is right with what he said above about the difference between the Irish/Italian gun owners in Boston and the young black teens raised in the ghettos of West Philly... there's a big difference. My best friend could probably win a medal of honor for all the good he has done to help others. I first met him as an employee in the ER... but he hates cops, and he will have nothing to do with them...and he told me that I will find that throughout most of the black community. The reason is many fold. Yes, racial profiling is a real thing... Lots of people are offset by the fact that nobody has ever come into their community to help "stop the violence" and when the cops finally do show up after everyone is dead, then the citizens don't want to get involved. It's sort of a "keeping to myself" mentality. Doesn't help much, but that's the way it is. As far as entering people's homes...it isn't just bad people who do that! You'd be surprised because you would think the city is bolted and chained shut, but people usually leave the doors unlocked...especially those who have grown up in the same neighborhood their entire lives. Lots of times people (family, friends, whoever) just sort of wander in to visit or what have you. It's a more open setting. When I did home care nursing, if someone didn't answer the doorbell or knocking, we just entered the house. Sometimes they couldn't even hear us because they were upstairs or in a back room. I guess I'd be pretty upset if someone decided that was a good enough reason to pull out a gun and shoot me...since I entered the house unannounced...and yeah, in a lot of cases, home care nurses aren't really wanted anyways! Guns are a public health issue. And no, we can't compare them to the lawnmower, medications, knives, etc...as others have already stated. I don't think John Deer has ever put out a tractor with a label that said, "Mow to kill." The only use for a gun is to kill...whether it be human or animal...whether it be justified or not. And actually, as a nurse I do have to worry about guns...my job doesn't just entail dispensing drugs right and left. I work with gunshot victims all the time. It's a very difficult job. And because of working in the pediatric-related field, we are required to assess (to the best of our ability) the home setting for the children. We do askif the family owns a gun. They can own one if they want, but then we go through safety measures to make sure they are protecting their children to the best of their ability. Anyways...as someone who will soon be a nurse and does work with children..in the city...guns are a major concern to me. It isn't like I should just pay attention to "medication errors" and that's all nursing is. That's one very small fraction of nursing... In a holistic approach, I take a look at people's living environments all the time...and yes that includes speaking with a new mother about what sort of things, like guns, may be present in the home when she brings home her newborn. Own all the guns you want....all I would really ask is that people be responsible and work towards better education to prevent senseless gun accidents in the home. I am tired of this fight...I would simply like to protect my children, if that's okay. And my personal ownership of a gun isn't going to do me any good as far as protection is concerned...but if that's what makes someone else feel safe...then please just use common sense and safety..especially with children around. Lizzie |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Frank_W on Mar 16th, 2005, 5:09pm on 03/16/05 at 16:48:01, Tom K wrote:
Right on, Tom. This is exactly the way I was raised, too. Most of the guns were locked in the gun cabinet, but the .357 in my dad's sock drawer was always there and always loaded. At the moment, all I have is a .410 shotgun for home protection. It belonged to my great grandfather, then my grandfather, and then my father passed it down to me. A .410 may not be a very powerful weapon, but I am dead accurate with it. I had a Reuger .38, but traded it for a year of art lessons... :) |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Tom K on Mar 16th, 2005, 5:22pm on 03/16/05 at 17:05:16, Lizzie2 wrote:
You are right, let's get a few things straight. There are less accidental shootings of family members than accidential poisionings. The latest statistics are aviable for 1998, that is when the last time the numbers were complied. In 1998 accidential shootings accounted for 866 deaths. 121 of them were children. That number is down 91% from the highest year, which was 1904. Want to dispute the number? Check with ATF. Oh wait...they didn't want to publish the numbers because HC, Inc and Million Moron March didn't want them getting out. Do a little internet research, you will find that Conceal Carry works every where it is tried. Crime dropped 74% in one month down in Florida after Conceal Carry went into effect. T |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Sean_C on Mar 16th, 2005, 5:44pm on 03/16/05 at 10:33:17, Drk^Angel wrote:
Bring it on LMAO |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Jonny on Mar 16th, 2005, 6:24pm NUFF SAID!!! ;;D http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b5dd37b3127cce90967ef7bdcd00000016108AZM2bNk5bM6 |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Sean_C on Mar 16th, 2005, 6:34pm I'd say gunslingers 1, 2 and 3 are real.......................any objections ;;D Sean...................... ;;D |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by guesst on Mar 16th, 2005, 6:34pm on 03/16/05 at 18:24:14, Jonny wrote:
mmmmmmmmmmm guns and Lee Press-on titties...... bring some beer and some of Hap's viagra! :P |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Jonny on Mar 16th, 2005, 6:39pm on 03/16/05 at 18:34:19, Sean_C wrote:
Nope, but add #4 for having pancakes.....LMAO ;;D |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Charlie on Mar 16th, 2005, 6:57pm Out of ammo finally. Tired. http://www.netsync.net/users/charlies/gifs/wavetowel2.gif Charlie http://www.netsync.net/users/charlies/gifs/snack.gif http://www.netsync.net/users/charlies/gifs/Hat tip.gif |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by medic1852 on Mar 16th, 2005, 7:00pm Well I am glad to call most of you Bro! Thanks for all the great imput. Hir, hope I did not offend you by saying I had you pegged as a hippy. I am glad to see that we all can have such diverse opinions and not get really upset. Looks like we are getting close to the Revelution I spoke of. LOL Come and Get em! [smiley=bigguns.gif] Rodger |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by floridian on Mar 16th, 2005, 7:43pm on 03/16/05 at 17:22:45, Tom K wrote:
And the Easter Bunny is coming to visit me soon! Maybe you were completely misinterpreting the statistic below, which states that over a 4 year period after conceal & carry was instituted, violent crime in Florida went from being 36% above the national average down closer to the national average?? That is not the same as declining 74%, nor even declining 36% in Florida. Quote:
So the 'relative rate' went down in Florida over a 4 year period while other get tough laws were put into effect and crime was rising elsewhere. Drug use, gang-violence, and other problems often show an 'epidemic' pattern, where they flare up and then burn out in a given area, so comparing FL to the nation is of limited value. The crack epidemic (and related violence) hit Miami hard before the rest of the US, raised the violent crime rates in the 80's, and began declining when crack was still expanding elsewhere. Maybe concealed weapons contributed to the complex of reasons for a decline, but it wasn't The Cause of a 74% decline in one month. Puhlease! |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by jokrs2 on Mar 16th, 2005, 7:53pm I apologize in advance for what I am about to say...but. Michael Moore movies are only good as frizbees [smiley=laugh.gif]after I have gouged them out so bad they are unwatchable ;) in case a dog picks it up and puts it in his dvd player. Imagine having this commie bastard :-X sitting at a table of honor, but you be the judge............and they call it a party? [smiley=laugh.gif] [smiley=laugh.gif] [smiley=laugh.gif] Buy better movies!!! ;;D |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by floridian on Mar 16th, 2005, 8:04pm on 03/16/05 at 19:53:57, jokrs2 wrote:
Funny how after decades of Rush Limbaugh, the conservatives get so upset when the liberals get a big bombastic buffoon for their side. |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by nani on Mar 16th, 2005, 8:11pm on 03/16/05 at 20:04:39, floridian wrote:
ROTFLMAO flo... [smiley=laugh.gif] How true. I feel I must clarify my Bowling for Columbine post. My point was that Moore did not set out to make an anti-gun movie. He simply asked...If there are just as many guns in Canada, why is there NOT the gun VIOLENCE that we have here in America? He went about disproving the general feelings that Americans have such as a lower minority population, and less population density. The answer that was evident at the end of the film was that America is being spoon fed fear every single day. By the media and the government. Less fear means less stupid mistakes. And...nowhere on this thread have I expressed my feelings about guns or gun control. |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by don on Mar 16th, 2005, 8:18pm Quote:
I dont live in fear and niether do I carry a handgun. Living in the woods doesn't neccesarily guarantee saftey either. Where was it they located the Unibomber? Our 15 billion dollar mine is leaking and falling apart already. |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Kris_in_SJ on Mar 16th, 2005, 8:36pm I owned a gun once ... for about a minute ... when I first moved to Chicago and was convinced the corrupted gangs would break into my apartment to rape and pillage. Ended up, I was more scared of shooting myself than someone else, so I threw it in the river. It was St. Patty's Day and the river was green .... Kris |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by floridian on Mar 16th, 2005, 8:45pm on 03/16/05 at 20:11:40, nani wrote:
I enjoyed F911, thought it was well done. But I'll admit that Michael Moore can be over the top. Haven't seen Columbine. Saw most of Roger and Me, was good at first, got a little old by the end. The thing about Limbaugh is that when ever he is pressed (and shown to be full of it) he says "you don't get it" and "I am an entertainer." |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by BobG on Mar 16th, 2005, 8:45pm Dang! Four pages! This is better than a political fight. I have only two things to say............... 1. Number 5 is all silicon. 2. I will not say if I have guns in my home or not. You will have to find out for yourself. |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Tom K on Mar 16th, 2005, 8:56pm You're right, Floridian...I forgot. That's why the criminals went to hitting people who had rental cars. But then the law changed so people from other states who could CC, could CC in Fla, too. That stopped that one. You are saying that criminals are so stupid they would try to roll someone who may be carrying? I know they are dumb but they aren't that dumb. Additionally, how many crimes have been committed by the people who are registered for CC? Less than 1%. Philly is bitching because they have had 71 homicides in 74 days. They want to ReRegister the CC holders. WHY? Not one of those crimes have been committed by a CC holder. |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by catlind on Mar 16th, 2005, 9:01pm on 03/16/05 at 20:11:40, nani wrote:
Hate to break it to you, there most certainly IS gun violence in Canada. The difference? It isn't that gun owners require an FAC and full training and police back ground checks...those folks don't do illegal things with guns. The black market is still there. The reason you don't see the same level of gun violence in Canada is because Canada doesn't have cities that compare in size and population mass like Los Angeles and New York City. Additionally, what you don't have in Canada is a media frenzy over every gun crime that happens. They report the big ones, the ones where kids in schools are shot, and where they pull in a haul of illegal firearms. Outside of that, the public is intolerant of media fed hype and inflation of what is occuring in reality. You don't get a media exposure of a Canadian school shooting like what we all saw live on television with Columbine, at least not up til 2 years ago (can't get Canadian news here in Nebraska). If I were to guess, it might also have something to do with a little thing called a federal police force, commonly known as the Royal Canadian Mounted Police - oh yeah, and that little thing they carry called a Queen's Writ. It gives them to right to search and seize - anytime anywhere. Sooooo if you want 'better' gun control, take that time honored and valuable document called a constitution, and replace it with a federal police force that has the right to enter and search and seize anytime they like. Yup, it sure does help, but is it what you want? Gun laws won't change things, it hasn't stopped the crime or black market guns in Canada, it won't here. I think Amsterdam has the right idea...set up a gun slinging, drug ingesting, porn proliferated, alcohol consuming 'region' and let them go nuts - if you leave that 'region' with the above mentioned activities, it's a penalty of say... death? Just some opinions and thoughts. Guns aren't the problem, just like medications aren't the problems... PEOPLE are the problem AND the solution. |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Kevin_M on Mar 16th, 2005, 9:18pm Quote:
Growing up in Detroit, a view about guns can be a negative thought, but I would never deny anyone the opportunity to own one in self-defense. It just seems they don't actually ever get used for that purpose much, so I don't own one. Great state for hunting though. Kevin M *the adjoining city I live in now used to be East Detroit. It changed its name to Eastpointe to eliminate the name Detroit so property values would rise. |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Lizzie2 on Mar 16th, 2005, 9:41pm on 03/16/05 at 08:22:14, Opus wrote:
Paul...don't know if this helps at all, but I think this is the most public/official documentation that I can find regarding Pennsylvania Gun Laws.. http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/037/chapter33/chap33toc.html |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by floridian on Mar 16th, 2005, 10:18pm on 03/16/05 at 20:56:21, Tom K wrote:
Umm, there were a hand full of cases where the criminals targeted rental cars. Got lots of media attention, and the rental car companies removed the company stickers, and the problem dissappeared. No evidence that a change in the laws had any effect. The criminals were looking for tourists - easy targets carrying more money than the average person. How dumb are the criminal class? I can tell you some stupid criminal tricks - like the two guys from my high school that broke into the house nextdoor. The cops solved the burglarly by following the tracks in the fresh snow. If they were rational, clear thinking people, they wouldn't be criminals in the first place - they would be financiers and politicians. Only 1% of crimes committed by those carying a CC permit? I can believe that one. The people I know who have a permit are decent, law abiding citizens. And the process of having to get a background check weeds out much of the high risk population. Less than 1% of the shootings in any given city are carried out by the college professors, the doctors and lawyers. No mystery there. I am not opposed to a well regulated CC program. It may do some good. But it isn't a magic bullet. Where crime has gone down in the US, the biggest factors have been the incarceration of known fellons, demographic change, intact culture, and jobs. Honolulu (with strong gun control laws) has the lowest murder rate of any major American city. |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Kevin_M on Mar 16th, 2005, 11:17pm on 03/16/05 at 22:18:12, floridian wrote:
I have to agree. The laws here were changed so that more people could have CC permits and it created a great uprising of criticism. However the statistics pan out and after the initial flood of applications that weren't properly checked out because no money, or not enough was alloted for the police to adequately and thoroughly doing this tedious job of being able to responsibly administer permits added to the criticism but so far things haven't changed for the worse. Just the same old abuse by what seems the same sort has increased because of the police busy with added extra duty of background checks being properly done and well scrutinized. The ability to actually solve more crimes has increased with technology so that closing cases is more successful, but the money is hard to get nowadays to keep the police in top form. One thing though, whenever millages are proposed, not many pass, but any the police put on the ballot, that's the only one to pass. Probably due to difficulty spreading out the money for more adequate educational needs too. Kevin M |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by sandie99 on Mar 17th, 2005, 2:04am on 03/16/05 at 04:59:47, Gator wrote:
It's not about taking Moore's work seriously. Watching Bowling just reminds me of all the articles I have read about shootings, gun accidents and news features about it. (But then again, if we begin to split hairs, we should recall that NEWS, too, are biased). There are two sides to each story. There more I learn media theories and see how media works the less I trust anyone else but myself. It's "this is my truth, tell me yours"- kind of thing. Then again, I am aware that as a journalist, I make decisions all the time: when I did the piece at the airport, I picked what things I wrote about. If somebody else had been there on the same day the same time they could have chosen to write about different things. That's what Moores and other documentarists of this world do. They pick what fits to their side of the story. The trick is to know both sides and then pick the one which fits your opinion world and understand that other one. That's how I see it. |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Renee on Mar 17th, 2005, 5:59am I was taught the most dangerous gun is an unloaded gun. Think about it. A bad guy breaks in and sees the gun or you pull an empty gun on someone....you are in trouble. The safest gun is one armed and ready to be used but protected away from young ones. If you want to learn more....take a concealed handgun permit class and test, if you are eligible. It isn't that hard and is very knowledgeable. You will rarely catch me without but you would never know it. |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by karma on Mar 17th, 2005, 8:03am Quote:
Wrong! Guns aren't dangerous remember. How many of you guys and gals that have firearms in the house for "protection" have actually had to use it for protection? My guess is zero. |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Hirvimaki on Mar 17th, 2005, 9:11am on 03/17/05 at 08:03:40, karma wrote:
Then your guess would be wrong. Hirvimaki-Isi |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Tom K on Mar 17th, 2005, 10:21am on 03/17/05 at 09:11:32, Hirvimaki wrote:
X2 T |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Cerberus on Mar 17th, 2005, 2:58pm I Posted my feelings on this in the thread the topic originated in "You gotta see this" Alot of interesting things were said in this one...I have to bow to the collective knowledge contained within these walls. in the original post on this thread: Quote:
I am only gonna state that the drinking and "unloaded firearm" theory don't mix. And I really have to wonder why in the world the shooter was pointing the gun in ANYONE's general direction? Course that only goes to prove the stupidity theory. Quote:
Interestingly enough, I believe the ban on assault weapons has been lifted through inaction on the part of congress. Could be wrong but thats what I've been hearing. All things aside....ya its tough to get a gun legally, but not nearly as tough to obtain one illegally. Gun Control laws usually only serve to regulate law abiding citizens....ask any cop anywhere. Quote:
Well said...Illinois is pretty much the same as the bulk of the post this came from....enter my home uninvited to commit a violent crime.......get an ass full of lead shot. Course before I shoot you I pretty much have to confirm that an equal weapon is weilded or personal injury to my family is intended...but that isn't hard. you can say what you want to, but personally? A good portion of one of many reasons I am not a criminal, is because I want to live.... my chances at success in that endeavor is greatly improved by not being a criminal. Stats are Stats and distorted for the purpose of the media. common sense is the stuff that binds. gun control in the U.S. usually means using both hands and keeping both eyes open. I could take up Bow Hunting...but I wonder how many accidents a season doing that are attributed to the same reasons for firearm hunting.... Be absolutely positive of your target folks and don't take a shot that you aren't 100% positive you can make and I promise fewer hunting accidents will happen. As for criminal activity....my gun is only gonna hurt the F*ck that invades my home and threatens my family. Albeit, C.C. permits nation wide (not the magic bullet) would definately make people think twice before pulling the trigger. Peaceout Ramon |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Cerberus on Mar 17th, 2005, 3:00pm Oh yeah I almost fergot... The gun totin babes? from left to right: 2..4..6 probably know a little something about safety. ;) Nice Melons to all tho Ramon |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Gator on Mar 17th, 2005, 4:27pm on 03/17/05 at 09:11:32, Hirvimaki wrote:
Make that X3 |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by jokrs2 on Mar 17th, 2005, 9:31pm Now Now ::) Just cuz I think Michael Moore is a piece of crap doesn't mean that I'm a conservative. I am not a fan of Rush's either. Integrity, values and honesty......probably not in a politician, but then again I'm just a voter. What can I say, the parties put the people on the ticket. One year I had to write in Arnold Ziffle for president ;;D...go figure. Lets have some fun. Who else has written in a good candidate? |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Lizzie2 on Mar 17th, 2005, 9:34pm on 03/17/05 at 21:31:25, jokrs2 wrote:
I've had this quote written down in a journal of quotes for a few years now, and it always makes me smile every time I read it! "Politicians are interested in people. Not that this is always a virtue. Fleas are interested in dogs."~P.J. O'Rourke ;;D |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by jokrs2 on Mar 17th, 2005, 9:54pm Great quote Lizzie2 ;;D ;;D Different opinions can always be moved towards a smile. |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Lizzie2 on Mar 17th, 2005, 10:06pm on 03/17/05 at 21:54:29, jokrs2 wrote:
This is most true. :) Sometimes it is best to just let sleeping dogs lie and return to "our regularly scheduled programming." :) |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Charlie on Mar 18th, 2005, 4:07am Welcome to America: God, guns, and gays. It's all you need to string out a thread. http://www.netsync.net/users/charlies/gifs/willy.gif Charlie http://www.netsync.net/users/charlies/gifs/headhurts.gif |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Renee on Mar 18th, 2005, 4:12am Make it x4. |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by karma on Mar 18th, 2005, 8:09am Quote:
X4 ? I'm surprised but skeptical If we remove " in the line of duty" as in law enforcemnt or the military and the removal of varmits and vermon (not the humane kind) How many? |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Hirvimaki on Mar 18th, 2005, 9:03am on 03/18/05 at 08:09:36, karma wrote:
Still one here. Hirvimaki-Isi |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Tom K on Mar 18th, 2005, 10:47am on 03/18/05 at 09:03:50, Hirvimaki wrote:
X2 Karma, is this because you can't possibly believe that a firearm may help? Or is it because you are afraid or jealous that we can own them, freely? Not trying to be a dick, just trying to find out what your reasoning is behind your disbelief... T |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Lizzie2 on Mar 18th, 2005, 10:53am I believe Karma's question is not whether you own a gun with the mindset of protection. It is whether or not you have actually used that gun and shot someone (or at least...attempted to shoot someone) for protection... |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Tom K on Mar 18th, 2005, 10:57am Shooting someone isn't the only way a gun can protect you. Shooting someone isn't something to be taken lightly, it is a difficutl decission, but it has to be made in a split second...my life or theirs. The sound of a shotgun action will offer protection, if you have even heard the sound, you know it is a major deturent. A laser dot on someone's chest and moving up toward their forehead, is a deturent. You don't have to pull the trigger in order to get your point across. T |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Lizzie2 on Mar 18th, 2005, 11:06am Tom, You make a good point, but now I worry about you. Where do you live that these actions are necessary to the point where it sounds like something you are intimately familiar with? Of course, I would never tell someone to move from their home if they felt safe enough...since my apartment isn't exactly the safest place, but I feel safe enough to stay. :) So....I was just curious where you live and what exactly goes on there. Sounds somewhat disturbing! The other night I heard a loud adult voice in the hallway of a student apartment building where I live. I thought I heard a knock on my door at about 11pm, and then the loud voices. I peeked through the peep hole and couldn't see anyone. I thought it might be maintenance, and here...,they have been known to bust into our apartment without us even knowing if we are in our rooms and don't hear them. (That day was a scary experience!) So...my method of safety at that point, instead of just using the regular door lock, was to add the bolt and chain. I don't like when stuff like that happens... |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by clarence on Mar 18th, 2005, 11:06am Just to reiterate: Michael Moore does not make documentaries. He makes propoganda. Casey |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Hirvimaki on Mar 18th, 2005, 11:24am on 03/17/05 at 08:03:40, karma wrote:
on 03/18/05 at 08:09:36, karma wrote:
on 03/18/05 at 10:53:56, Lizzie2 wrote:
First, that was NOT the question. The question was "How many of you guys and gals that have firearms in the house for 'protection' have actually had to use it for protection?" And as TomK pointed out: on 03/18/05 at 10:57:53, Tom K wrote:
So, again, have I ever used a gun for protection? Yes. In fact, more than once. Do I believe that without a gun the situation would have had a different outcome (a worse outcome) than it did? Absolutely. I'm not gun crazy. I've been on both ends of a gun. I've seen guns used for the best and worst of reasons. But I understand and respect the value guns have as tools. Hirvimaki-Isi |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by karma on Mar 18th, 2005, 11:36am Tom, Good question. I don't believe I said one way or the other how I feel about firearms. The choice to own a firearm is a personal one and has nothing to do with my jealousy, fear or envy. My question was made because an awful lot of people stated that they owned a lethal weapon for home protection. Yes I was surpirised to see that a few people had actually had to show or use the firearm for protection. Like you said this is not an easy decision to make and can easily escalate into a very bad situation. This is where I was going with this: There are alternatives that have much less dire consequences if used improperly. I will stick with my paintball gun. I don't need a license, No one will kill themselves or others and it is a helluva lotta fun. Its not as macho or impressive as a 9 mm or shotgun but you can bet your ass It will get your attention. It will turn a raving crackhead into a sniveling begging lump of shit in no time. Trust me. |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Tom K on Mar 18th, 2005, 11:43am Lizzie, I appreciate your concern, but you don't have to worry. I used to live in the city, Chicago, but have moved to the burbs. Growing up with a Marine as a father, you learn a few things. Haven't had to pull since we moved out here, but before....let's leave it at that. Like I've said before, I've been a shooter since I was 5, have shot competition in almost all aspects, handgun, high power rifle, sporting clays and European Skeet. I have been a hunter since I was 9 and am still on the waiting list for hunts on Kodiak Island, Grizzly Bear and South Dakota, Buffalo. Like it has been stated many times before, a firearm is a tool. How that tool is utilized is up to the individual. If that person doesn't wish to use that tool, then they shouldn't try to pass laws that others can't use them. For most of the anti-firearms types out there, you should find someone who you trust that is a shooter. Go shooting with them. You will find that you may actually have fun. I have taken a few anti's out and they loved it so much that they became owners. It's all on your perspective. T |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Tom K on Mar 18th, 2005, 11:48am on 03/18/05 at 11:36:02, karma wrote:
I like paintball, too. But if it came down to my families life, the Mk23 would be coming out, not the paintball marker. Growing up with the respect for firearms that was engrained in me, I had a real hard time deciding to play paintball. The whole "Never point a weapon at someone" thing. It took awhile to get over, but I do enjoy it. Having to face someone amped on drugs, I don't think you would really want to stake your life on it, though. Just my .02 T |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Hirvimaki on Mar 18th, 2005, 11:53am OK... Apparently even with the new responsibilties that come with a promotion I have far too much time on my hands... Here's Lil'E packin'. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v674/de_profundis/4n1m3/9MM_Lil_E.jpg Anything she asks, the right answer is: Yes, ma'am. :) Hirvimaki-Isi |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by karma on Mar 18th, 2005, 11:59am Quote:
yup this one is hard and if not suprvised properly can give kids the wrong foundation for the future Quote:
If I had a real gun he would probably be dead and I would be in jail. Instead he is in jail and I still have my Tippman |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Tom K on Mar 18th, 2005, 12:06pm on 03/18/05 at 11:59:07, karma wrote:
If the shooting was justifiable, you wouldn't go to jail. Tippman, eh? I prefer my Shocker! T |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Lizzie2 on Mar 18th, 2005, 12:11pm While I definitely wouldn't try to impose any of my own feelings about guns on someone else...for example, I don't want to ever own a gun, but it is fine with me for other people to own them. Afterall, it is legal...and as long as people are safe (yeah by now we know that's my big issue!) and responsible, then...go for it! It kind of reminds me of religion...one of the biggest things I despise is when someone tries to push their own religious beliefs on you. Same goes with lots of other things... We may not have the same opinion about guns for whatever reason, but like I said, I'm not going to impose my views on you...just as I wouldn't want you to impose your views on me. :) For me, the only time I've ever done any shooting (and yes...I did enjoy it) was while playing Duck Hunt on the ancient original nintendo. But at the same time....I also had to laugh when I invited my friend over one night to play Mario Kart on Nintendo 64 and we were making lots of mixed drinks and got rather drunk. I said, "this is definitely the only kind of legal drunk driving...and it's actually pretty fun!" I'm not comparing shooting to drunk driving...because that would be idiotic. But, I do think I'll stick to my nintendo games when it comes to any such activity. :) I used to be a pretty avid fan of "Doom 2"...believe it or not! So...I'm not all as anal about it as I guess I may have come across... My biggest concern is for safety, and as long as individuals are making an effort to be safe and as responsible as possible, then I don't have any problems with them owning a gun. Now if someone is going to start being irresponsible with it....then I might have an issue...but I still can't say I'd be for a gun-ban. I still think that would solve absolutely nothing! Lizzie :) Oh and PS to Karma....I'm not sure that a paintball would even stop someone high on crack! My best friend and I were talking about this while I was in the ER last night and he was keeping me company while I waited for a bed. He was talking all about how people on crack lift cars and change tires without tools, etc. He was really pretty funny in describing it...but I would have to guess that even if someone high on crack was shot (in a non-deadly way), they'd probably still come at ya like a mad crazy person! I have a really funny story about how these two high school girls in my hometown got high on amphetamines at a school event and actually managed to beat up two big burly medics to the point where the medics had to be seen at the hospital...the story was off the hook! My roommate told me since she works for the ambulance. |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by karma on Mar 18th, 2005, 12:12pm Quote:
Different country different laws tippman, A-5, response, 15 bps @ 300 fps. Perfectly legal and scary if your unprepared for it. edited for lizzie: Thats 15 balls per second at a velocity of 300 feet per second (can go higher). Can load up to 500 balls at once. Sometimes nothing will stop a cranked up meth or speed freak right away, not even clubs and bullets. |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by clarence on Mar 18th, 2005, 12:16pm on 03/18/05 at 11:53:58, Hirvimaki wrote:
This is a pretty good thread after all. Casey |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by nani on Mar 18th, 2005, 12:19pm I enjoyed shooting when I'd go for target practice. I always thought it'd be fun to go to one of those Gun/Hunter shows dressed in cammies with a paint gun. I'd start pickin' off hunters just to watch the panic in their faces. The same look Bambi had when his Mom got shot. ;;D |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Hirvimaki on Mar 18th, 2005, 12:23pm on 03/18/05 at 12:19:54, nani wrote:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v674/de_profundis/4CH/13427.jpg 'Nough said. Hirvimaki-Isi |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by nani on Mar 18th, 2005, 12:27pm ROTFL Hirv.... [smiley=laugh.gif] |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Lizzie2 on Mar 18th, 2005, 12:40pm on 03/18/05 at 12:23:57, Hirvimaki wrote:
Ewwwwwwwwwwwwww but still...LOL :) |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by purpleydog on Mar 18th, 2005, 12:44pm X 5 |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Tom K on Mar 18th, 2005, 1:51pm on 03/18/05 at 12:19:54, nani wrote:
And, not to call out nani, but here it goes anyways. This is where the problems start. Shooting someone with a paintball marker who isn't wearing the proper protective gear is as irresponsible as not taking care to keep your weapons safe. It would be all fun and games, correct? Have you seen someone get their eye blown out because of a paintball? Not a pretty sight. A ball of gelatin and corn starch, the size of a nickle moving at 300 feet per secon. That means it covers the length of a football field every second. It would do massive damage to a person who isn't wearing the proper mask or goggle system. Like I said, not to call you out or anything, but when someone jokes about using a weapon in an unsafe manner, it isn't a joke. And frankly, gets my blood boiling... T |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Hirvimaki on Mar 18th, 2005, 1:56pm on 03/18/05 at 13:51:04, Tom K wrote:
Ditto. Hirvimaki-Isi |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by floridian on Mar 18th, 2005, 2:06pm on 03/18/05 at 13:51:04, Tom K wrote:
What if some one's day dream is of arming a herd of deer, who then go after the hunters. Is that still bad?? |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Tom K on Mar 18th, 2005, 2:10pm on 03/18/05 at 14:06:59, floridian wrote:
In the realm of reality, it is more likely that someone would shoot people with a paintball marker than it is to arm deer. Your logic doesn't hold water. I know what you are trying to get at, but it isn't going to work. ::) Have a day... T |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by floridian on Mar 18th, 2005, 2:19pm on 03/18/05 at 14:10:47, Tom K wrote:
So is the mother who says she would like to "wring her kids neck" a serious problem?? Should that always get people's blood boiling and trigger protests outside of movies that feature such dialogue? Some parents do strangle their kids (which is terrible and wrong), but taken in other contexts, people say it all the time and it is clear they don't mean it, and it has no consequences in the real world. |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Tom K on Mar 18th, 2005, 2:28pm So using your logic, I can safely say that people living in Florida are idiots because there are hurricans, same with people living in trailers, even though they are tornado magnets. And you can't get pissed. I could make all the wife beater jokes I wanted and get away with it. All this after I tell a couple of people to contact you because you know a lot about med iteractions and the kudzu trials. Nice... No wonder I bailed off the boards for a few months. If someone here doesn't agree with 100% of what you say, they catch so much grief, it isn't even funny.... T |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by floridian on Mar 18th, 2005, 2:46pm Sorry, not trying to give you grief, I just think that the original comment was not meant to be taken seriously. People that live in Florida know (or should know) the risk. But there is no where that is risk free ... hurricanes in FL, earthquakes in California, a tornado in Kansas. It is unfortunate when people are injured or killed by these disasters. Jokes about hurricanes or tornados? Dunno, depends on the context. Jokes have a way of making people angry (as do political threads). |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by karma on Mar 18th, 2005, 3:10pm Tom, Ease up dude there is no right or wrong in this. It just is and will be for along time to come. Quote:
I think this attitude is more prevelant on the issue of gun laws. More so than other issues. Accept maybe abortion. The problem with gun laws is that it to easy for firearms to end up in the wrong hands. The problem is not responsible gunowners it is the gun industry, irresponsible dealers and irresponsible gunowners. The only way to fix the problem is to more heavily regulate gun sales and manufacturing. This will never fly because the legitmate gunowners are lobbied and used by the gun industry to create enough noise to influence the law makers. Sux don't it? |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Hirvimaki on Mar 18th, 2005, 3:15pm on 03/18/05 at 15:10:40, karma wrote:
Gee... And you wonder why people get offended? So according to you, I am owned by the gun industry? Nice. I think I'll just resond with this again: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v674/de_profundis/4n1m3/9MM_Lil_E.jpg Hirvimaki-Isi |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by karma on Mar 18th, 2005, 3:21pm If the shoe fits........ But why not respond to this Quote:
or this Quote:
|
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Tom K on Mar 18th, 2005, 3:32pm on 03/18/05 at 15:10:40, karma wrote:
You are 110% incorrect. There is no company more heavily regulated than the firearms industry. There is no "Gun show loop hole" and it isn't shady dealers. The criminal element gets firearms the same way they get drugs, through criminal activities. Notice that in England, Austrialia and other countries that have gun control, they also have gun crime. Where are the dealers in those countries? If a law abiding citizen can't own a firearm, then there are no dealers to sell them one, there is no gun show to go to...how do they get their firearms? |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Hirvimaki on Mar 18th, 2005, 3:36pm on 03/18/05 at 15:21:17, karma wrote:
.......you'd find a way to explain why it is only because it is regulated and controlled by government. Hirvimaki-Isi |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by floridian on Mar 18th, 2005, 3:40pm Quote:
When people discuss facts, there is right and wrong. When people disagree on values or conclusions ... |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by seasonalboomer on Mar 18th, 2005, 3:49pm One of my greatest disappointments in the world came with having to finally give in and accept: "The truth, it would seem, always lies somewhere directly between the two points being argued." |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by karma on Mar 18th, 2005, 3:52pm Quote:
Its probably right up near the top but what about the auto industry, the pharmiceutical industry, The food industry, the energy industry? Each and everyone carries a a huge product liability. Some where back a couple of pages it was said that in Montana all you need to buy a fireram is walk in the store. I'm sure its equealy as easy to buy a firearm in other states. Quote:
maybe I'm slow but I need help with this one. MAybe that will also explain this. Quote:
Hirv come on you can do better than that. |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Jonny on Mar 18th, 2005, 3:53pm http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v674/de_profundis/4n1m3/9MM_Lil_E.jpg Paul, you could have at least gave her some really nice camel toe....Jeez.....;;D |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Tom K on Mar 18th, 2005, 4:50pm on 03/18/05 at 15:52:14, karma wrote:
Here are some examples of buying firearms through dealers in the US. California...15 day wait, even though there is a Federal Instant Check System. Ask some of the people who were in LA during the OJ riots, how they liked waiting. Many tried to go buy a firearm and most didn't know that there was a 15 day wait. They were willing to pay over double what the firearm cost and the dealers told them to go take a hike. Illinois, 5 day wait for handguns, 3 day wait for long rifles, FOID card required (Firearms Owners Identification Card), Federal Instant Check. Chicago, Illinois, No handgun purchases, all long rifles must be registered, State background check, must "renew" registration every year at $50 per firearm. South Dakota, 3 day wait, Federal Background Check. Yes, some people can walk into a shop and walk out with a firearm. These people are Conceal Carry Permit holders and police. Military personnel can't even do that. To answer your "Not the most regulated but at the top" statement. Talk to Colt. They make the M-16 and the civilian version the AR-15. They are regulated down to the last piece. Each person is searched before they leave the plant because the M-16 is a full auto firearm. The part that makes it so is called a sear. The FEDERAL penalty for owning a sear without a Federal Firearms Dealers License Class 3 is $10K and 5 years in Federal prison. You are doing the whole 15 for that, no parole, good behavior, etc. And that's just for one part. Drop that part into an AR-15 and you have a full auto firearm, and you increase your Federal penalty by 3 fold. edited to remove the stupid comment that wasn't intended as a slam, was just not informed... |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Bethany1 on Mar 18th, 2005, 4:59pm Don't wanna jump in your discussion here, but in New Hampshire I believe you only need a license (drivers) and you can walk out with a gun. Thats what my brother in law tells me anyway. Hes a hunter and lives in NH. Beth |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Jonny on Mar 18th, 2005, 5:03pm on 03/18/05 at 16:50:03, Tom K wrote:
Try asking the dude that made the post. on 03/16/05 at 11:02:19, vietvet2tours wrote:
He's just a PM away ;;D |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Tom K on Mar 18th, 2005, 5:18pm on 03/18/05 at 17:03:59, Jonny wrote:
Looked at his profile, Jonny. Answered my own question and the post has been modified to remove my stupidity... Buying a firearm though a classified ad is different than going through a shop. Even here in Illinios, you have to keep reciepts for 7 years with the name, address, FOID card number and serial number of the weapon. |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Jonny on Mar 18th, 2005, 5:21pm If there was a penalty for stupity posting I would be Scott Petersons room mate ;;D |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Gator on Mar 18th, 2005, 11:47pm on 03/18/05 at 12:11:26, Lizzie2 wrote:
You got this right. I have a book from my police days called "Street Survival." In this book, there is a picture of a man who was on PCP. He was shot 32 times in the head, chest and upper torso. It wasn't until that 32nd shot that he finally dropped. There were articles coming out all the time how this or that person on PCP broke handcuffs and attacked officers. PCP is some wicked shit. |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by john_d on Mar 19th, 2005, 12:32am my home is protected with a dull fork, I dare anyone to enter it with malicious intentions, a forking is a bad way to go |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Kevin_M on Mar 19th, 2005, 12:55am on 03/19/05 at 00:32:55, john_d wrote:
Know what you mean John. Guy pulls an inside straight on me and when I head "fork it over" I had to reach for it. Kevin M |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by karma on Mar 19th, 2005, 6:55am 50 states and the dependent territorties and each can have different regulations for purchasing a firearm. Each county within the state can have different regulations to buy a firearm. It seems that the closer you get to large populations areas the tougher the regulations get but a smart guy and an amoral gun dealer can and do make big bucks using the different regulations. Firearms manufacturers like colt have huge military/law enforcement contracts that allow massive production. The margins aren't great so they depend on private sales to boost profits. The M-16/AR-15 is a good example of that. It was developed and perfected for the military but modified for civilians use. WHY? Profits$$$$ I have nothing aganist companies making money. Thats what business is all about. But what possible use does an assault rifle have outside law enforcement or the military? There are much better hunting rifles made But yea I guess it looks good in a rack. The fact that the sear is so heavily protected is a good thing but give me one and I can make as many as you want. Current regs. are easy to get around which is exactly why there are so many unlicensed firearms on the street. Standardize mandatory waiting periods, background checks for buyers and a nationwide database for manufacturers, dealers and consumers. If you have a legitimate reason to build, sell or own a firearm then why is this so hard to accept? |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by floridian on Mar 19th, 2005, 8:34am on 03/19/05 at 06:55:31, karma wrote:
The idea of an 'assault' rifle really is arbitrary: Quote:
Many hunting rifles have detachable magazines and are self-loading (semi-auto). These are not really distingushing features. Conspicous Pistol Grip ?? WTF?? That doesn't make it any more dangerous. A folding or telescoping stock might make a rifle more portable, maybe somewhat more 'concealable' depending on your definition of concealable. Still not a common feature on so called assault weapons in most militaries, except maybe for paratroopers. Bayonet mount? Not really a problem in urban crime as far as I can tell. If I were hunting boars, I would wouldn't mind having the additional safety of a bayonet on my rifle. Grenade launcher?? You can buy that on a 'non-assault' rifle, you just can't buy grenades (unless you are the US military). And you can't buy it on rifle with a pistol grip and a folding stock because that would be - well it would be really bad for some reason. (again, WTF??) Grenade launchers on rifles were not a problem in the US, even before the ban on 'assault' rifles. Flash supressor? Legal, just don't add it to the pistol grip or grenade launcher. Or else call it a compensator. If the so called 'assault rifles' were outlawed, the next target would be hunting rifles, many of which have greater accuracy and longer range than the 'assaults.' The gun control crowd and PETA crowds would then call them 'sniper' rifles. |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by karma on Mar 19th, 2005, 9:29am Floridian, I can add all those things to my piantball marker and its still legal. [smiley=laugh.gif] Checkout the armotech site. These markers are designed to look like the M-16 and others. http://www.armotech.us/armotech/Wg65-1.jpg http://www.armotech.us/wg-75/WG-75_sm.gif |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by clarence on Mar 19th, 2005, 9:51am on 03/18/05 at 15:40:08, floridian wrote:
Modernist. ;;D Casey |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by floridian on Mar 19th, 2005, 9:54am on 03/19/05 at 09:51:38, clarence wrote:
Is that good or bad?? [smiley=huh.gif] 8) ;;D |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Tom K on Mar 19th, 2005, 10:12am on 03/19/05 at 08:34:21, floridian wrote:
Too late. Gov. Rod Blowjobivich is going after anything that is .50 cal and above. Calling it in our safety so terrorist can't use .50 cal Sniper rifles to shoot down planes. Well, ANYTHING over .50cal includes my 3 shotguns, my 2 muzzelloading rifles. When was the last plane shot down with a sniper rifle, .50 or other wise? When was the last "Drive-by muzzelloader" shooting? Between Daley in Chicago and Blowjobivich, they are trying to take all the guns away from Illinois residents, except criminals, of course. But with both of them being Dems, the House and Senate in Illinois having a Dem majority, they still can't get their gun control laws passed. |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by clarence on Mar 19th, 2005, 10:21am on 03/19/05 at 09:54:26, floridian wrote:
Well, I guess that all depends. To the pre-moderns the moderns are tyranical. To the post-moderns, the moderns are rigid, and of course, wrong. To the moderns, though, the moderns are progressive and scientific, and the other two are either ancient and anti-intellectual, or absurd and lame. Then again, the idea of postmodernity is debated as to whether it even exists, or if it is just an extension of modernity. Either way, you're pretty cool. 8) Casey |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by karma on Mar 19th, 2005, 10:45am Quote:
X2 Quote:
Just goes to show you that if the extremesist on both ends of the arguement can be eliminated a sensible solution can be found. |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Frank_W on Mar 19th, 2005, 11:06am on 03/19/05 at 10:45:12, karma wrote:
BINGO. That's exactly it. |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by BobG on Mar 19th, 2005, 8:32pm on 03/19/05 at 08:34:21, floridian wrote:
Back in 1968 I had the opportunity to participate in a little police action in Vietnam. The infantry unit I was with had LRRP (Long Range Reconnaissance Patrols), aka "Lerps", teams. They were equipped with 3 types of “sniper” rifles, .50 cal, 7.62mm and .22 cal. These rifles and ammunition were all target grade, not ordinary issue. No detachable magazine, no folding stock, no bayonet mount, no grenade launcher. Guess which one was the favorite…………the lowly little-bitty 22. Those suckers could take off the head of a gook’s wiener from 1500 yards. |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Frank_W on Mar 19th, 2005, 10:53pm Yep. .22 rifle with a scope. Damn fine weapon for targets, varmints, and uh... apparently, gook weiners. LOL [smiley=laugh.gif] |
||||||||||||||||
|
Title: Re: Lets wake up it is time to get real Post by Kevin_M on Mar 19th, 2005, 11:30pm Hot-loaded .22's like a 22-250 are extremely effective for small targets at long ranges, barring crosswinds. Back when, I believe the Chinese favored a .223 or .226 with the added usefulness of that, a man who was hit perhaps may not be killed but it would take an additional two more personnel of the opposing forces to be occupied with recovering and taking him from a battle scene, thinning out the opposition in numbers. Kevin M |
||||||||||||||||
|
Clusterheadaches.com Message Board » Powered by YaBB 1 Gold - SP 1.3.1! YaBB © 2000-2003. All Rights Reserved. |