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Title: Ya gotta read this... Post by Cerberus on Mar 14th, 2005, 1:56pm http://www.thisislondon.com/news/articles/17262526?source=Evening%20Standard&ct=5 no offense to any English folks here, but somehow this seems a little over the top. Make sure you read the witness comments and picture captions after the story. Ramon |
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Title: Re: Ya gotta read this... Post by guesst on Mar 14th, 2005, 2:01pm That's what happens when firearms are made illegal. :-X |
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Title: Re: Ya gotta read this... Post by Leesa on Mar 14th, 2005, 2:03pm DAMN! Wonder if that could have been anymore nasty? Some how lunch is now out of the question. Leesa :-X |
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Title: Re: Ya gotta read this... Post by vig on Mar 14th, 2005, 2:06pm ugh, I wonder what inspired that... |
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Title: Re: Ya gotta read this... Post by LeLimey on Mar 14th, 2005, 2:09pm Just seen this on the news here... I can't believe it. I'm stunned. It seems the guy didn't try to hide it in any way or run away. He just wanted to kill this man. Makes you wonder what he did to "deserve" that.. hard to imagine. |
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Title: Re: Ya gotta read this... Post by guesst on Mar 14th, 2005, 2:11pm on 03/14/05 at 14:09:42, LeLimey wrote:
Wonder if the guy who did it, has young children........... just a thought. |
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Title: Re: Ya gotta read this... Post by Charlie on Mar 14th, 2005, 2:14pm Quote:
I'm not for making guns illegal for several reasons but this kind of statement appeals to the wrong crowd; not at all to the anti-gun lobby. Charlie |
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Title: Re: Ya gotta read this... Post by Frank_W on Mar 14th, 2005, 2:18pm Holy shit! Lizzie Borden surrenders. |
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Title: Re: Ya gotta read this... Post by guesst on Mar 14th, 2005, 2:20pm on 03/14/05 at 14:14:40, Charlie wrote:
What I'm trying to say is that I would much rather witness a "clean" shooting than a horendous axe-job. Edit to add the old tired truth that guns don't kill people, people kill people. |
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Title: Re: Ya gotta read this... Post by Charlie on Mar 14th, 2005, 2:42pm There are lots of similar quotes like that but people who hate guns consider them examples of redneck philosophy. They are all over gun shows of course, as bumper stickers and the like and I have been to dozens of them years ago selling historic military stuff as a rule. I never thought bumper stickers were effective in this anyway. Charlie |
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Title: Re: Ya gotta read this... Post by floridian on Mar 14th, 2005, 2:58pm This is what can happen if you don't make guns illegal: Quote:
Quote:
But guns do make it easier for disturbed people to kill more people with less effort in a shorter period of time. Strict gun control or fire arms in every home, it doesn't matter. Can't really stop the sickos either way. |
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Title: Re: Ya gotta read this... Post by guesst on Mar 14th, 2005, 3:03pm Yes the story from Brookfield was very sad, just down the road from me. :( And I agree, we are damned if we do and damned if we don't. But I like my chances if I at least have the oppurtunity to be as well armed as the criminal who wants to harm, me, my family or my property. At least level the playing field. |
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Title: Re: Ya gotta read this... Post by floridian on Mar 14th, 2005, 3:11pm Yeah, I own firearms for protection and sport. Not sure how the risks compare - stopping an intruder vs. accidents and mishaps. But there is a certain deterrent effect, and if there is a break down in law and order (post hurricane or whatever), they might come in handy. On the other hand, I fully trust my faithful canine companion to ward off wayward evil doers (and wake me up every Saturday morning when he sees other dogs walk by). |
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Title: Re: Ya gotta read this... Post by Charlie on Mar 14th, 2005, 4:04pm Guns are overrated as personal protection by you and me. It's very very hard to hit someone for several reasons. They are scary of course and might work that way. They can be lots of fun though. This reminds me of my neighbor who was thinking of some expensive alarm system for his house. City ranch houses aren't good targets anyway......The alarm companies call about it now and then. I always ask my neighbors when is the last time you saw or heard of any break-in anywhere our neighborhood. I've been here since 1963 and so far not one burglary or even serious domestic trouble. I read once that the safest place to live is near a prison. You aren't going to find a lot of criminals hanging around on your side of the wall. They tend to move far far away.... 8) Charlie |
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Title: Re: Ya gotta read this... Post by clarence on Mar 14th, 2005, 4:38pm I was given a couple of guns as gifts (wife's family is all law enforcement). I am all for them, I like them...etc. I don't have them here in Canada of course, they are in California. After seeing on the news about the 4 year old who shot his 2 year old brother with him mom's gun, I wonder what I should do when we have kids. Get rid of them? How do you secure them so that children can't access them, but still have them be useful for home protection? I mean, when someone is going to kill your family, you can't go to the safe, turn the key, and dial the combo. I'll have to think about that one. On the other hand, I am all for the strict regulation of axes - only in teh hands of firefighters and liscensed lumberjacks I say. Casey |
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Title: Re: Ya gotta read this... Post by Lizzie2 on Mar 14th, 2005, 8:09pm I've always been pretty anti-gun, but at the same time...banning guns would just mean that all the wrong people would STILL have guns. For example....we ban hard core drugs...but those with the connections and means get them anyways! So if we ban guns, then we have a bunch of innocents running around who have followed the anti-gun laws and chosen not to obtain guns...and a bunch of whack job gangsters in the city who have their guns from the black market and will just shoot everyone up anyways. Sometimes that seems like a no-win situation! However, there are a couple of areas where gun-control laws make sense to me. That whole, "Guns don't kill people, people kill people." And also, "Guns don't kill people, bullets kill people."...I guess I don't always buy into that. I'm sure I've told this story before, however, it applies once again. When my cousin Stephen was 17, he was out visiting his biological father in Nevada with his best friend. My ex-uncle had a gun in his house, and I guess the boys found it...obviously it wasn't taken apart, separated, put in a lock box...all the things they recommend gun-owners do to prevent gun accidents in the home. Well, the boys were messing around with a gun they thought was unloaded and my cousin's best friend shot Stephen (my cousin) and killed him. If gun laws had been more strict, my uncle never would have even owned a gun...because he's just an average Joe. And then Stephen would still be alive. So yeah...a person killed Stephen, but if there had never been a gun in that home...then Stephen would still be alive. That makes me think that guns are at least a PART of this issue. Stephen's best friend wouldn't have killed him with a "supposedly unloaded butcher knife!" It was his best friend! It's not the first story I've heard. Although I don't own a gun, and I don't really think I ever want to (guns cause me to have panic attacks based on the above story), I don't think an all-out ban of guns is the best solution. However, I do think that something needs to be done. There are all these recommendations for how to keep a gun stored in your house to protect your family. Yet the statistics keep coming out that one of the highest causes of gun-related deaths in the home is death by someone who used the gun and doesn't even own it...and it is often a family member or close friend who is killed in accident...all because of improper safety. So...I dunno...I guess I ride the fence on gun control. I'm not pro-NRA by any means, but I'm also not all out anti-gun. I'm just a normal citizen who felt some pretty major despair when she lost her cousin due to a gun accident. My 0.02. (And a half...as usual!) ;) L2 :) |
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Title: Re: Ya gotta read this... Post by Jonny on Mar 14th, 2005, 8:20pm How many people would be alive if the witnesses to the crime had a gun? Its not brain surgery folks, think about it! |
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Title: Re: Ya gotta read this... Post by Gator on Mar 15th, 2005, 4:35am on 03/14/05 at 16:38:19, clarence wrote:
Kids that aren't raised around guns are awed by them. They want to touch them or play with them. Do what my father did. Take the mystery out of them and replace it with respect for the damage they can do. Take the kid out behind the house or to a gun range if you have one or a deserted quary (some place with a good backstop) and fire a few rounds. The noise itself is enough to discourage most young ones from wanting to mess with them. Then, if the kid is big enough to handle the gun, let the kid fire a few rounds. Choose a target that will be blown apart when you shoot it to drive home what a gun can do. Unload and disassemble or use gun locks on the guns you aren't using for protection. If you are using a handgun for protection, place it out of sight, but within your easy reach on a top shelf in your closet. Lock ammunition away. You don't need some fancy lock box. I used an old electric box and put padlock on it. We always had guns in the house when I was growing up. Several long guns were hung on a rack above the fireplace. I never played with them. I got my first shotgun as a Christmas present (a Harrington & Richardson single shot .410 shotgun) when I was in the 7th grade. I probably would have had it sooner, but we lived in various cities until late in my 6th grade year. I had a high powered Crossman .177 caliber pump pellet rifle for years before that and a Red Ryder BB Rifle before that. Either the next year or two years later, I got a Remington Model 870 12 gauge pump shotgun for Christmas. I have almost always had guns in the house with my kids. They weren't laying all over the floor or hanging on the wall in the living room. I keep my guns in my closet. Long guns on the floor leaning in a back corner and the handguns on the top shelf where I can get to them easily, but out of sight. I took the boys out shooting at a young age and impressed upon them the damage a gun could do. I taught them the proper way to handle various types of guns. They know to treat ANY gun as if it were loaded, even if they are 100% sure it is not. They know where the guns are in my closet. They have never messed with them, because they know and have always known that guns are not toys. |
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Title: Re: Ya gotta read this... Post by sandie99 on Mar 15th, 2005, 9:34am That was a news story here in Finland, too. Luckily I don't live in London now... I have relatives who'd be panicking right now! The story was horrible, though. :( |
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Title: Re: Ya gotta read this... Post by vig on Mar 15th, 2005, 10:08am I learned to fire/clean guns when I was young. I've never owned one and probably never will. But the cat is out of the bag and I don't think anybody in their right mind thinks the cat is going back in. The guy in this story was going to kill this other guy no matter what the weapon. The real story is about rage, not guns... |
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Title: Re: Ya gotta read this... Post by guesst on Mar 15th, 2005, 10:20am Why was this guy ever allowed back into society? http://www.thisislondon.com/news/articles/17278197?source=Evening%20Standard&ct=5 |
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Title: Re: Ya gotta read this... Post by LeLimey on Mar 15th, 2005, 1:13pm Cos the loony left give these sicko's more rights than their victims. Why can't "life" mean LIFE? |
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Title: Re: Ya gotta read this... Post by sandie99 on Mar 15th, 2005, 1:22pm on 03/15/05 at 13:13:28, LeLimey wrote:
I have always wondered that one. Why call it a life sentence if it's not it...?! [smiley=huh.gif] |
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Title: Re: Ya gotta read this... Post by medic1852 on Mar 15th, 2005, 1:37pm This proves my point as to why gun control is useless. A gun is no more than a tool and you can kill someone with any tool be it a hammer a screwdriver or in this case an axe. So all you guncontrol fanatics come get my guns if you dare. [smiley=bigguns.gif] Rodger. Note I bet there is more to this than meets the eyes. I somehow got a feeling a child is involved somehow. |
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Title: Re: Ya gotta read this... Post by Gator on Mar 15th, 2005, 1:39pm If a person is so dangerous that he can NEVER again be trusted in society - why pay to keep him alive and fed, clothed, educated, entertained, etc? |
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Title: Re: Ya gotta read this... Post by medic1852 on Mar 15th, 2005, 1:41pm on 03/15/05 at 13:39:20, Gator wrote:
I agree wholeheartedly! Give this human the same respect you would a dangerous animal which you cant trust. Destroy them. [smiley=bigguns.gif] |
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Title: Re: Ya gotta read this... Post by LeLimey on Mar 15th, 2005, 2:22pm Medic there are two stories here.. one about the axe man and one about a nutter who was released and killed again. The first.. yes my instinct is that there was a kid involved or that He was the kid. The second, we don't have the death penalty here. I'm not going to bother to debate that one 'cos we won't ever have it. Its been voted on before. In the absence of it I would like to see a life sentence meaning LIFE. Not out on licence in ten years or even less. Thats nothing but an insult to his victims. I also resent them getting to do degrees while inside. I firmly believe they should get a basic education but any more than that is an infringement of MY rights. I can't afford to, why should someone who has robbed me educate themselves on my taxes? I could go on and on about this but I won't! Id just like to see criminals do the sentence they are given not a third of it and I'd like to see life mean life. |
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Title: Re: Ya gotta read this... Post by medic1852 on Mar 15th, 2005, 2:30pm I relize there were 2 stories I read both. I agree with a Life term meaning a life term. I also agree that they should not live like kings and obtain an education at my expense. But my stance is still the same. If a person is crazy and claims to be mad, then do them like you would a mad animal, kill them. Eye for an eye. But that is just my opinion. |
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Title: Re: Ya gotta read this... Post by vig on Mar 15th, 2005, 2:42pm and then there's this guy from Atlanta.... put him down. sorry RTL'ers... |
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Title: Re: Ya gotta read this... Post by Cerberus on Mar 15th, 2005, 3:15pm Ok well... EVERYONE missed the things that shocked me, yes there was an axe murder this happens from time to time...I can deal with that as grisly as it is, pretty much everywhere the occurance is rare at best. This was not intended as a gun control topic This was not intended as a Capital punishment debate This was not intended as anything other than to point out the appalling behavior of the neighbors/ workmen etc. on the scene. I was totally floored by the things "reported" by the people posting the article as well as the comments by the "witnesses" The statement by several people saying: "I asked him to stop"...but he just looked at me and ignored me.........WTF!!!! The "Pardon me sir, but would you please mind ceasing to hack that innocent man to death." excuse just doesn't fly very far with me. Just exactly when was it that the police were called? After the fact? C'mon did you really expect the guy to stop? He was bent on killing that man...the AXE aside! This simply blows my mind. I DO understand why these things were said...for lack of firearms or other suitable weaponry to stop the crime. I duno, I was just blown away by that. Other comments like "smartly dressed" ... Maybe its just a cultural gap, but that is hardly much of a description (I suppose relevant to where you are) and the captions....good grief... "The Victim apparently suffered hard blows to the head. NO F*ckin shit!? the guys skull and interior matter were pretty much spread over a great deal of concrete...somehow I was under the impression that the attacker slowly and methodically sawed lightly at the victims neck with an AXE blade....NOT! but since we are on the topic of gun control and capital punishment... Its all about EDUCATION. (just like Gator said) more people need to be "taught" to respect the power and dangers of firearm use and storage. This would significantly reduce the number of killings ( intentional and accidental) especially the latter. And the earlier in life the better...within reason of course. As for the "Life" sentance for things such as this... There is NOTHING stopping a judge from denying parole or imposing multiple life sentances to make it impossible criminals from being released regardless of behavior while incarcerated. Its been done. Personally.... I see this as an open and shut case, there is a body a weapon and direct eye witness positive I.D. it shall be very interesting to see how the court system there handles this. We all know damn well what would happen here. I'm done now... Ramon |
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Title: Re: Ya gotta read this... Post by Frank_W on Mar 15th, 2005, 3:18pm Yes: If it happened in the US and the perpetrator happened to be Michael Jackson, he could show up in court in his pajamas. If it happened to be O.J. Simpson, he could stand on the court steps and talk to the camera about how he was going to find the "REAL" killer of his wife and her boyfriend. Oh: You mean if it was just an ordinary citizen? Oh. |
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Title: Re: Ya gotta read this... Post by Cerberus on Mar 15th, 2005, 3:28pm Actually I was thinking more along the lines of Jeffrey Dahmer, or Charles Manson...but Whatever. Ramon |
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Title: Re: Ya gotta read this... Post by Frank_W on Mar 15th, 2005, 3:34pm I understand, Ramon. I'm just saying that in many ways, our justice system in the US is just as appalling, sometimes. :-/ |
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Title: Re: Ya gotta read this... Post by Lizzie2 on Mar 15th, 2005, 5:14pm on 03/15/05 at 13:37:07, medic1852 wrote:
I think you missed my post. Sometimes the GUN itself really does play a factor. Like I said in the above post, my cousin's best friend wouldn't have killed him with a "supposedly unloaded butcher knife." Should there have been better parenting involved? Maybe so. But there should not have been a gun in that house. If there hadn't been a gun in the house, then my cousin would still be alive...or at least not killed that day by his best friend. Guns really are a part of the problem....and although I'm not for a total weapons ban or anything, I don't think we can be extreme on either side. There are many cases where if guns simply weren't available, less people would be dead. All those "accidental" deaths (especially in the home)...someone wasn't angry and out to kill. Someone was messing around with a gun and accidentally shot and killed someone they loved. That's why I say that banning guns isn't the answer, but we can't leave the gun as "blameless" too. If there was no gun, I would still have a cousin. I think that says enough right there! L2 |
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Title: Re: Ya gotta read this... Post by medic1852 on Mar 15th, 2005, 5:32pm on 03/15/05 at 17:14:16, Lizzie2 wrote:
Lizzie that is really insane. To blame a gun on someone’s death. I guess there should not have been an axe laying around for this guy to have beat this guy with. Or in Charles Manson’s case no people to listen to his rhetoric. I was raised around guns there were always guns in my house as a child. As a matter of fact my father let me cut (literally Cut) my teeth on a colt when I was an infant. I have been shooting guns since I was 2 years old. I can kill someone with a pillow. So should pillows be outlawed as well? The problem is not the gun, which is a tool the problem is in our communities and government not holding the criminal liable for his crime. Quit coddling these bad guys and put them away. Quit blaming our problems on TV, Movies, music, and our parents not hugging us enough when we were kids, or my dog ran away and now I am not well adjusted. Be responsible for your actions. Like I said come get my guns! [smiley=bigguns.gif] Rodger |
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Title: Re: Ya gotta read this... Post by Lizzie2 on Mar 15th, 2005, 5:42pm That's kind of unfair, Rodger... My cousin was shot by his best friend...and it was a total accident. They were playing around with a gun they found in my ex-uncle's house which they thought was unloaded. Stephen's best friend wasn't out to try to kill him. That's why I say that if the gun wasn't around, Stephen would still be alive. Did my Aunt and Uncle press charges against the boy who was their son's best friend and shot him on accident? No... I think he has had to live with the responsibility of knowing he accidentally killed his best friend for the rest of his life. A girl in my nursing class lost her aunt because when her cousin was a young kid, he found a gun in the house and accidentally shot it off...The bullet went through the wall, hit his mother and killed her. He was a child and killed his own mother. You don't think that these things would not happen if these people did not have guns in their homes? Maybe they simply need better safety education, but I'm sorry...these deaths would not have occurred if guns weren't around. As I've said before, I'm not for banning guns, but guns aren't off the hook either. If there wasn't a gun in these situations, these people would not be dead. And yes, they pay for the rest of their lives with the guilt that they've killed a loved one because they were playing with a gun that they never should have had their hands on in the first place. The guns didn't belong to them. And they should have been safely locked away...not just available for small children to find and "play" with. It's not a toy. So yes, guns do play a part in the deaths. These people weren't out for murder...it was a complete accident. L2 |
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Title: Re: Ya gotta read this... Post by Frank_W on Mar 15th, 2005, 6:03pm All of the same arguments can be made of the automobile or motorcycle, or the airplane, though. :-/ |
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Title: Re: Ya gotta read this... Post by Lizzie2 on Mar 15th, 2005, 6:09pm on 03/15/05 at 18:03:01, Frank_W wrote:
And yet nobody is questioning that we are trying to make all of these things SAFER. Regulations, testing, rules, safety teaching, etc are constantly being done in these industries to try to improve safety. However if someone mentions one thing about guns, then it gets all the conservative NRA members with their panties in a knot. It isn't a matter of accepting responsibility. As I've said, I believe the people responsible for the accidents are feeling the responsibility for the rest of their lives...knowing that you've killed someone you love is probably the worst feeling ever. Why shouldn't there be more of an effort for education about safety? I think that is my concern... Have a gun if you want...but for pete's sake..use it in a safe manner. It doesn't have to be a mantelpiece... Maybe I'm just thinking that things could be changed for the better if people were more willing to work together instead of getting defensive and angry. Yes, people are the problem who are irresponsible with how they handle guns, but yes ALSO the guns in the home were PART of the problem. Not the WHOLE problem, but a part of it. As was some irresponsible person who should have made better efforts to protect the safety of their home. When babies go home from the hospital, we are educating parents like crazy about keeping hazardous chemicals, medications, etc out of the reach of a child. Child safety locks...no matter how flimsy they are...are better than nothing. Why is it such a big deal to ask that people learn to behave more safely when a gun is concerned? |
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Title: Re: Ya gotta read this... Post by Frank_W on Mar 15th, 2005, 6:17pm Why is it such a big deal to get people to hang up their fugging cellphones and drive their vehicles in a responsible and safe manner, so that they aren't endangering everyone around them while weaving all over the highway without a turn signal at 70+mph? There are responsible people and there are irresponsible people. |
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Title: Re: Ya gotta read this... Post by Lizzie2 on Mar 15th, 2005, 6:20pm on 03/15/05 at 18:17:17, Frank_W wrote:
And you can just say, "Oh well" or you can work to educate people to be a part of the solution. New Jersey stepped up -- it's against the law to drive while talking on a cell phone without a hands-free device. But then..what about seatbelts? Sheesh.... I mean..it's the same damn shit..I honestly think that if we make at least SOME effort to educate people about safety and make sure that these safety regulations are followed, then we would have a lot less senseless death from stupid ass things... |
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Title: Re: Ya gotta read this... Post by pubgirl on Mar 15th, 2005, 6:29pm What strikes me as even more amazing is how many unarmed people (at least 4 according to the article!)apparently went up to the man with the axe and asked him to stop!!! :o :o :o Only mad Brits would do that, I'm sure in most other countries people would either run away screaming or pull out a gun and shoot him! Wendy oh and by the way, even if there were any police officers nearby, they probably wouldn't have been armed anyway. |
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Title: Re: Ya gotta read this... Post by pubgirl on Mar 15th, 2005, 6:42pm oh, and Frank, we've even heard of Lizzie Borden over here, I even know the rhyme so she must be legendary all over the world! "Lizzie Borden took an Axe, She gave her mother forty wacks, When she seen what she had done, She gave her father forty one!" |
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Title: Re: Ya gotta read this... Post by Charlie on Mar 15th, 2005, 11:09pm Lizzie was sumpin else. Never underestimate New England feminists. I know one from London: Jack the Ripper's dead, He's lying on his bed. He cut his throat with Sunlight Soap, Jack the Ripper's dead. I never thought much of it but somehow it sticks in my craw. Charlie |
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Title: Re: Ya gotta read this... Post by Gator on Mar 16th, 2005, 2:23am Lizzie, no one here is an anti-safety advocate. No one is saying people shouldn't be careful, but you can't legislate stupidity. No matter how strict you make any law, no matter how much you educate the masses, no matter how many warning labels you put on products, there will be some moron who will ignore it and someone will end up hurt or dead. I am not saying not to educate. I am not saying there should be no laws. I am not saying there should be no warnings. I am saying that at some point people have to be responsible for their own actions. Speaking of lawn mowers, my neice was cutting grass in her yard and was backing up and fell and pulled the lawn mower back over her foot. She lost a little bit of a couple toes. It was carelessness on her part for not watching where she was walking - Not the lawn mower's fault. No need to regulate how people cut grass. No need for another warning label saying not to walk backwards with a running lawn mower. I ripped my middle finger tip on my right hand in half because I was careless in setting the vibration damper on a brake lathe. What was funny was I was teaching a group of prisoners in the prison automotive shop how to set up and use the brake lathe. I was adjusting the vibration damper and turning the brake drum to make sure it was set right all the way around the drum. As I turned the drum, my middle finger was just a wee bit too deep and the tip got wedged between the drum and the bit that cuts the metal. Of course with the sudden pain, I yanked my hand out of the lathe and ripped my finger tip from the side of the first knuckle diagonally across the nail and out to the end of the finger. Laid it wide open and deep. No need to pass legislation on the use of brake lathes. No need for another warning label. It was sheer carelessness on my part. At least the prisoners got a valuable lesson on safety that day. Inanimate objects are not responsible for the damage some person does with them. Guns, axes, cars, lawn mowers, brake lathes - none of them have any say in how they are used, misused or abused. |
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Title: Re: Ya gotta read this... Post by Frank_W on Mar 16th, 2005, 8:34am on 03/15/05 at 18:42:25, pubgirl wrote:
LOL! Yep! That's the one! Here's a great link to the whole story: http://www.crimelibrary.com/lizzie/lizziemain.htm |
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Title: Re: Ya gotta read this... Post by Cerberus on Mar 17th, 2005, 1:53pm I feel you have said it yourself best in this statement Carrie: (the irony being that it is my whole point) Quote:
the operative word in the above statement is Thought While I DO fully understand your position Carrie, I have a little bit of opinion here. I own Guns (no handguns currently) and I DO display both the Rifle (not useable, it is a mere collector's piece) and my Shotgun on my gun rack in my bedroom. Why do I do it? Well...here is a little insight. My gun rack is a lovely handmade piece of furniture. The firearms it holds are unloaded and any ammunition is kept in a totally separate location in the house. They are there merely as display pieces currently. My point being that I have personally taken responsibility for the safety of my family by: 1. Making absolutely certain the gun is unloaded. 2. storing ammunition away from the weapons 3. Educating my children on the saftey of handling such items as well as constanly warning them of the dangers they can have. And that under no circumstances are they to touch them without my direct supervision. That being said...many of the accidental shootings occur because of a handfull of reasons: (not including crimminal activities) 1. The firearm was stored/kept loaded. 2. The firearm was not stored in a manner that a child could not access it readily (meaning trigger locked or in a locked box or safe or even both) 3. The owner was irresponsible for educating thier families about firearm safety. Or in one or both of the previously mentioned reasons. You feelings about your cousin are justified and valid and I would never suggest the contrary, however, to dismiss the incident by simply "removing the gun from the premises" is almost as irresponsible as the improper storage of it. YES "had it not been there" is a given...but I personally would seriously think about moving or seeking counseling if I was paranoid enough to feel I had to keep a "loaded" weapon in my house. When My kids were younger, I kept my guns (and ammo) locked up, in-accessable, and out of sight. to discourage such accidents as you describe (except for the guns themselves I still do) I went through a great deal of trouble to ensure the optimum amount of safety for my kids and the neighborhood children. In fact, there has only been one incident involving my shotgun that was of any real concern. My youngest (a few years ago) was giving a tour of our new house to her new friend, in doing so they went into our bedroom and there was my gun rack. I heard her say to her friend (who was in awe of my display) that those were "Daddy's guns, and they were absolutely NOT to touch them" under any circumstances, "so that no one would/could be hurt, and that if she wanted to know more about them to ask me." I was more proud of her at that time than I had been up to that point... and it goes to show that proper respect, handling and education goes a LONG way to avoiding disasters. (A taught respect for other's property doesn't hurt either) My daughter still asks to go hunting/ target shooting with me when I go, however, I always tell her that she cannot go until she has had proper education and instruction and even then if she did not completely adhere to my instructions (in the field) she would never be allowed to EVER again. Fact remains...no matter how you feel about this subject, it is the owners obligation to take appropriate safety measures when it comes to firearms period. The gun itself is an inanimate object and cannot aim and/or fire itself without the assistance of a human being in whatever form that may manifest, either in action or lack of responsibility in ammunition storage and/or handling as well as Firearm safety in general. As for your cousin's accidental death...I personally would question your "ex-uncle's" lack of responsibility or your cousin's father's lack of the same in that situation. (no offense intended) Now can we get back on to the original topic? Ramon |
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Title: Re: Ya gotta read this... Post by vig on Mar 17th, 2005, 1:58pm My brother has a nice display gun rack... His three year old was looking at the guns and asked his mom what they were for... She said they were for target shooting... He said... "Let's take them to Target to shoot!" (true story, just to make you laugh, not to make a point) |
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Title: Re: Ya gotta read this... Post by nani on Mar 17th, 2005, 10:40pm on 03/17/05 at 13:58:23, vig wrote:
Well...you better be nice to that kid, vig. We won't be laughin' 20 years from now if he snipes 18 people at the local Target, now, will we. ;;D |
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