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        New Message Board Archives >> 2005 General Board Posts >> What do YOU think?
        
(Message started by: Jonny on Feb 8th, 2005, 5:59pm)
Title: What do YOU think?
Post by Jonny on Feb 8th, 2005, 5:59pm
"Three smokers left in the months leading up to the change and four others quit in late December before they could be fired for failing a smoking test, a spokeswoman said on Friday."

http://www.sci-tech-today.com/story.xhtml?story_id=18.542070

What next!...fire me for drinking beer at home ;;D?

Last I heard smoking was not against the law....Christ!!!
Title: Re: What do YOU think?
Post by vietvet2tours on Feb 8th, 2005, 6:08pm
Then I could fire me for smokin,then get a labor lawyer on the public dime and sue myself for wrongful discharge,win a huge setlement and retire to N.C. and buy a tobacco farm and get gov't subsidies to not grow tobacco.
Title: Re: What do YOU think?
Post by PrettyH8Machine on Feb 8th, 2005, 6:17pm
George Orwell was only 21 years off.

Now put down that damn cig, big brother is watching us.

CD
Title: Re: What do YOU think?
Post by Gator on Feb 8th, 2005, 6:34pm
My immediate temptation is to get angry at the company for daring to try to control private lives and the government for allowing it to happen.  

However, on deeper consideration, this seems to be more of an issue of companies setting standards and people choosing whther or not to follow those standards.  Those of you that own businesses:  Your business is a private enterprise.  You should be allowed to set whatever standards for employment you so desire.  People can choose to apply and/or to work there based on your requirements.  Should the government have any right to tell you who you can or can't hire?

I know I'm going to take some heat for this, but MY vote is to keep government out of private enterprise.  The more we allow government to become entangled in our daily lives, the more freedoms we give away.
Title: Re: What do YOU think?
Post by Jonny on Feb 8th, 2005, 6:39pm

on 02/08/05 at 18:34:09, Gator wrote:
 Should the government have any right to tell you who you can or can't hire?


It seems they already do dont you think?

"While Americans enjoy workplace protection from discrimination by race, gender, religion, creed, national origin and other factors"
Title: Re: What do YOU think?
Post by catlind on Feb 8th, 2005, 6:42pm
Guess I picked a good time to quit.

Enjoying the withdrawal phase....NOT.

Cat
Title: Re: What do YOU think?
Post by boonie on Feb 8th, 2005, 6:42pm
Maybe they should just give us the short list of what we can do.

A desert island is looking better all the time

Boonie
Title: Re: What do YOU think?
Post by Racer1_NC on Feb 8th, 2005, 6:49pm

on 02/08/05 at 18:42:25, boonie wrote:
Maybe they should just give us the short list of what we can do.

A desert island is looking better all the time

Boonie


I doubt desert islands would be on "the list".
Title: Re: What do YOU think?
Post by forgetfulnot on Feb 8th, 2005, 7:17pm

on 02/08/05 at 18:34:09, Gator wrote:
My immediate temptation is to get angry at the company for daring to try to control private lives and the government for allowing it to happen.  

However, on deeper consideration, this seems to be more of an issue of companies setting standards and people choosing whther or not to follow those standards.  Those of you that own businesses:  Your business is a private enterprise.  You should be allowed to set whatever standards for employment you so desire.  People can choose to apply and/or to work there based on your requirements.  Should the government have any right to tell you who you can or can't hire?

I know I'm going to take some heat for this, but MY vote is to keep government out of private enterprise.  The more we allow government to become entangled in our daily lives, the more freedoms we give away.


Some of these people had worked there 14 years and one didn't carry company insurance. This guy is a dickhead.

Lee
Title: Re: What do YOU think?
Post by stevegeebe on Feb 8th, 2005, 8:02pm
Enjoy a cheeseburger while you can.

Steve G
Title: Re: What do YOU think?
Post by Gator on Feb 8th, 2005, 8:04pm

on 02/08/05 at 18:39:12, Jonny wrote:
It seems they already do dont you think?

"While Americans enjoy workplace protection from discrimination by race, gender, religion, creed, national origin and other factors"


Where do you draw the line, though?  Should you be forced to hire someone who would be a liability to your company?  I don't see midgets playing pro basketball.  No scrawny men in pro football.  I've never seen a butt ugly waitress.  All the girls at Hooters may not have DD's, but they all look good in shorts.  I could go on.


Quote:
Posted by: boonie Posted on: Today at 17:42:25
Maybe they should just give us the short list of what we can do.


Who is THEY?
Title: Re: What do YOU think?
Post by BlueMeanie on Feb 8th, 2005, 8:10pm

on 02/08/05 at 18:34:09, Gator wrote:
You should be allowed to set whatever standards for employment you so desire.  People can choose to apply and/or to work there based on your requirements. The more we allow government to become entangled in our daily lives, the more freedoms we give away.


What are you saying ? This guy just took away those same freedoms that you say government should not intervene on ?

I hope this guy gets sued for everything he's got by the people who he discriminated against and invaded in the private life of those workers. He has taken away one of the few freedoms Americans have left. Who is he to say what someone can or cannot do when away from work. The idea of, do what I say because I have the power is total Bullshit. When is the mindset of "if you don't like it, find another job" gonna stop ? Workers need rights too.
Title: Re: What do YOU think?
Post by Charlie on Feb 8th, 2005, 8:25pm
Ridiculous.  :o  

It's getting bad in Europe now too from what I read.  

Smoking is too effen complicated now. It won't get better kids.   ::)

Charlie
Title: Re: What do YOU think?
Post by Kris_in_SJ on Feb 8th, 2005, 8:48pm
Gator - I understand what you're saying.  But, the fact is, the fired workers had been there for quite some time.

I do believe that private employers have the right to decide who to hire as long as they're within the law with regards to non-discrimination.  This guy has the right not to hire people who smoke if that's the company policy.  I don't believe he had the right to conduct "nicotine drug tests" and fire employees who might choose to indulge at home.

Ultimately, I only have one thing to say ... "Click, inhale, exhale in gratitude ... I'm glad I'm self-employed!"

Kris
Title: Re: What do YOU think?
Post by Sean_C on Feb 8th, 2005, 9:05pm
What you do on your own time is your own business.........................period. If you let somebody tell you any different, you've lost everything.

Let the revolution begin.

Sean............................
Title: Re: What do YOU think?
Post by AussieBrian on Feb 8th, 2005, 9:12pm
Our city council has just passed a law forbidding children from running in the Esplanade play-ground.
Title: Re: What do YOU think?
Post by Sean_C on Feb 8th, 2005, 9:22pm

Massachusetts Laws

Children may smoke, but they may not purchase cigarettes.

Taxi drivers are prohibited from making love in the front seat of their taxi during their shifts.

Affiliation with the Communist party is illegal.

No gorilla is allowed in the back seat of any car.

Bullets may not be used as currency.

Alcoholic drink specials are illegal.

It's illegal to drive Texan, Mexican, Cherokee, or Indian cattle on a public road. (MGL Chapter 129 Section 35)

Tomatoes may not be used in the production of clam chowder.

Hunting on Sundays is prohibited.

It is illegal to go to bed without first having a full bath.

At a wake, mourners may eat no more than three sandwiches.

Public boxing matches are outlawed.

It is unlawful to injure a football goal post, doing so is punishable by a $200 fine.

It's illegal to keep a mule on the second floor of a building not in a city unless there are 2 exits. (MGL Chapter 272 section 86)

It's illegal to sell fewer than 24 ducklings at a time before May 1, or to sell rabbits, chicks, or ducklings that have been painted a different color. (MGL Chapter 272 Section 80D)

It's illegal to allow someone to use stilts while working on the construction of a building. (MGL Chapter 149 Section 129B)

Defacing a milk carton is punishable by a $10 fine.

It is illegal to frighten a pigeon.

An old ordinance declares goatees illegal unless you first pay a special license fee for the privilege of wearing one in public.

All men must carry a rifle to church on Sunday. (Repealed)

Quakers and witches are banned.

Snoring is prohibited unless all bedroom windows are closed and securely locked.

It is illegal to reproach Jesus Christ or the holy ghost. (MGL Chapter 272 section 36)

Boston by laws

No one may take a bath without a prescription.

It is illegal for any citizen to own more than three dogs.

An old law prohibits the taking of baths on Sunday.

Duels to the death are permitted on the Boston Common on Sundays provided that the Governor is present.

Women may not wear heels over 3 inches in length while on the Boston Common.

Anyone may let their sheep and cows graze in the public gardens/commons at any time except Sundays.

No more than two baths may be taken within the confines of the city.

No one may cross the Boston Common without carrying a shotgun in case of bears.

It is illegal to play the fiddle.

Two people may not kiss in front of a church.

It is illegal to eat peanuts in church.

They rightem' believe it or not..............

Sean..........................
Title: Re: What do YOU think?
Post by Redneck on Feb 8th, 2005, 9:56pm
I ain't paid to think.
A$$holes is like opinons, everybody got at least one!

Wyeco: fuk'em and feed a fish head, a little bream head so they choke on it!

Nuff said  ;;D
Title: Re: What do YOU think?
Post by cootie on Feb 8th, 2005, 10:48pm
Idiot tests are prolly next.....if I flunk does that mean I am smart ? Pleasantly dumb Pam
Title: Re: What do YOU think?
Post by Gator on Feb 8th, 2005, 10:58pm
,
on 02/08/05 at 20:48:14, Kris_in_SJ wrote:
Gator - I understand what you're saying.  But, the fact is, the fired workers had been there for quite some time.

I do believe that private employers have the right to decide who to hire as long as they're within the law with regards to non-discrimination.  This guy has the right not to hire people who smoke if that's the company policy.  I don't believe he had the right to conduct "nicotine drug tests" and fire employees who might choose to indulge at home.

Ultimately, I only have one thing to say ... "Click, inhale, exhale in gratitude ... I'm glad I'm self-employed!"

Kris


How long would you be self employed, though, if the government started controlling more and more aspects of your business?

For the workers that were already there, I agree there should be some considerations made.  At the very least since you are forcing them to quit, you should be obligated to help them, I suppose.  And for the one that didn't even have company insurance, I don't understand that at all, except that it is hard to enforce a policy against one and not all.  I'm sure this isn't the last we'll hear on this issue.

It's a great big clusterfuck, no doubt.  Whose rights are more important?  Whose rights does the government get to trample?  Who gets to decide?  I used to own my own computer sales and service business.  It was growing and going quite well until I had to move and sold my share of the company to my partners.  The last thing I wanted was Uncle Sugar sticking his nose into my business.  If government intervenes too much in private affairs, how long until people quit wanting to take on the liability of owning a business?  
Title: Re: What do YOU think?
Post by AussieBrian on Feb 9th, 2005, 3:07am
Did you know it's illegal for a man to marry his widow's sister?
Title: Re: What do YOU think?
Post by sandie99 on Feb 9th, 2005, 3:10am
Luckily for me I never even started smoking in the first place! So I've never had to fight that addiction...  ;;D But then again, I've kicked my candy and coca-cola light lemon addictions, so I bet I would be able to kick the smoking habit if I had it. ::)
Title: Re: What do YOU think?
Post by Frank_W on Feb 9th, 2005, 8:40am

on 02/09/05 at 03:07:07, AussieBrian wrote:
Did you know it's illegal for a man to marry his widow's sister?


[smiley=laugh.gif]
Title: Re: What do YOU think?
Post by JJA on Feb 9th, 2005, 8:58am
I don't see the big difference between this and what has been going on for years with other drugs, especially marijuana. Just because tobacco has been legal for so long, it seems different, but fundamentally it's an interference with civil liberties. If it's ok to fire one person for smoking pot on Friday night, why not someone else smoking tobacco every night?


on 02/08/05 at 20:04:18, Gator wrote:
I've never seen a butt ugly waitress.
Really???

In the end, I agree with Gator (well kinda), but I think we got to the same place from very different starting points. I think the government shouldn't have to make a rule about who you can and can't hire/fire. If a company discriminates we, as consumers, should have the common sense and decency to boycott their product/service. I know that this utopia-fantasy world will never exist, so we need to figure out where to draw the line... Patch up the big holes and let us sort out the rest. This is supposed to be a free country.

I guess if you want to waste your money drug testing that's ok by me.

Quote:
A congressional committee estimated that the cost of each positive in government testing was $77,000 because the positive rate was only 0.5% www.drugwarfacts.org/drugtest.htm
That doesn't account for drug users who would have been good employess. I know a couple of people that use shrooms that I don't think would be a liability. Smokers would drop the cost per positive drug test, but you'd be losing some good employees.

Jesse
Title: Re: What do YOU think?
Post by ExplodingEyeBall on Feb 9th, 2005, 9:08am

on 02/09/05 at 03:07:07, AussieBrian wrote:
Did you know it's illegal for a man to marry his widow's sister?


You had me for a couple seconds there.  ;;D

Along those lines. If your parents don't have any kids, you will not be allowed to either.
Title: Re: What do YOU think?
Post by Major_Headcase on Feb 9th, 2005, 11:49am
I think businesses should be allowed to regulate employee behavior "while on the job" ... but to tell them how to behave after hours is total bullshit. I'm a smoker and don't like how we've become the new class of folks others feel good about discriminating against ... but I understand the logic of it in public circumstances. Heck, I've almost gotten used to being forced to stand outside my workplace in the snow/rain/heat to have a smoke. But this 24/7 monitoring of employees is just plain wrong!

Henry Ford pulled this crap back in the late 20's/early 30's. He used higher wages ($5/day) to gain employees then regulated almost all aspects of their behavior - both on and off the job. Paternalistic in the extreme, Henry was convinced he, and only he, knew what was best for his workers. He established a "Sociological Department" at Ford to monitor his employees ... this was essentially a network of about 1000 paid "informers" who tracked employee's behavior. This even included oversight of their sexual practices. Was it legal? Yep! Was it right? Not imho!!

Ugh! I feel like we're turning into "The Borg" as a society, more and more individual rights are being subordinated to the greater good of society [at least in somebody's opinion] ... "Resistance is futile"  :'(
Title: Re: What do YOU think?
Post by Jonny on Feb 9th, 2005, 6:38pm
They passed a law here in Mass not long ago that you cant smoke in ANY work place......I would LOVE to see some MF'er walk in my shop and tell me to put my smoke out.....*SLAM!!!!!!*
Title: Re: What do YOU think?
Post by nani on Feb 9th, 2005, 6:41pm
Smokers have become the new lepers. I can't have a cigarette in a restaurant in Albq...but I can go outside and breathe in carbon monoxide. All those nonsmokers just don't get that. Second hand smoke isn't going to kill them...pollution is!
Title: Re: What do YOU think?
Post by Jonny on Feb 9th, 2005, 6:46pm
Soon they will be surrounding your house and you will hear from a megaphone...."Come out with the carton raised above your head"

Thats when I start blasting clips out the fucking window!!
Title: Re: What do YOU think?
Post by nani on Feb 9th, 2005, 6:47pm
LMAO dude...you would!!!  [smiley=laugh.gif]
Title: Re: What do YOU think?
Post by Sean_C on Feb 9th, 2005, 8:34pm

on 02/09/05 at 18:46:31, Jonny wrote:
Soon they will be surrounding your house and you will hear from a megaphone...."Come out with the carton raised above your head"

Thats when I start blasting clips out the fucking window!!


http://www.fun.from.hell.pl/2004-02-05/big_gun.jpg

I will absolutely have your back, however I don't think you'll need it bro.

Sean................................ ;;D
Title: Re: What do YOU think?
Post by Jonny on Feb 9th, 2005, 10:10pm
Im cool Bro.... ;;D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v451/jonny68/mastercard1.jpg
Title: Re: What do YOU think?
Post by john_d on Feb 9th, 2005, 10:13pm
bwahaaahaa LMAO bro  ;;D
Title: Re: What do YOU think?
Post by Jonny on Feb 9th, 2005, 10:25pm

on 02/09/05 at 22:13:15, john_d wrote:
bwahaaahaa LMAO bro  ;;D


I have to thank Rex for that one.....hes good!!!

.......................................jonny
Title: Re: What do YOU think?
Post by Sean_C on Feb 9th, 2005, 11:27pm
There are reasons people lose thier jobs, smoking shouldn't be one of them  ;;D

















http://www.fun.from.hell.pl/2004-01-21/Why-I-Lost-My-Job-Today-08.jpg
Title: Re: What do YOU think?
Post by rextangle on Feb 10th, 2005, 3:43pm
When people ask me "why don't you quit smoking?"

I always say "Everybody hates a quiter" [smiley=finger.gif] [smiley=bigtiny.gif]


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