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(Message started by: sandie99 on Nov 17^th, 2004, 11:52am)

Title: Advice needed
Post by sandie99 on Nov 17^th, 2004, 11:52am

I am clueless now. I need your wisdom and advice. This is the situation:

my dear friend has been with her fiance for four years. They were friends first, then started dating. They have been engaged for little over a year, but their relationship has had lots of problems all the time.

Not that long time ago he confessed to her that he has cheated her - twice. She decided to forgive him and she tells me every time I see her that she's happy. But it seems to me that she is actually trying to convince herself.

She has told me that he's not exactly what she is looking for in a partner, but still she stays with him. Today she emailed me a long story about people staying together.

Is she asking me to give her support, you know, tell her that she should leave him? What are your thoughts?
I have told her in the past, that it's her life and I'll support her whatever she decides; after all, I'm not the one who has to live with that choice. Her fiance is ok, but I do have to bite my tongue not to let him know a piece of my mind about cheating.
Personally, I could not stay with a man who has cheated on me.

clueless sandie99

Title: Re: Advice needed
Post by LeLimey on Nov 17^th, 2004, 12:00pm

Dear Clueless
This one is a minefield! The trouble with giving advice in these situations is that it always comes back to bite you on the arse.
If they stay together she is embarrassed cos you know the bad stuff, or she feels awkward for NOt taking your advice so avoids you.. been there and lost good friends through it.
My advice to you would be to give her a hug and tell her she can vent on you any time, you know she has the right decision inside her and you will stand by her regardless.

THEN you tell her about another (fictional) friend of yours in a similar situation.. make it someone on here for instance so she'll never ask why she doesn't know them! Tell her this other person is going to do XXXXX whatever the advice you want to give her is.
That way you are giving her the advice she obviously needs but indirectly so it doesn't hurt your friendship!

Funnily enough I'm in the middle of the same scenario with a friend of mine and its working really well!!

Title: Re: Advice needed
Post by Jeepgun on Nov 17^th, 2004, 12:04pm

Oh! Yeah, what SHE said!!

Personally, if I were her, I'd leave.

Title: Re: Advice needed
Post by nani on Nov 17^th, 2004, 12:06pm

This is a tough one! What I do is what I call nani therapy. When, and only when, she asks you for input say -"Well how do feel about that?" or "Why do you think you feel that way?" Let HER come to her own conclusions. And, because she is your friend it's important for you to validate her feelings. Say "Yes- I can see why you feel that way." or "Well, I don't think I agree, but it's not important what I think...it's important what YOU think."Good luck...it's always hard to keep the appropriate level of detachment when it comes to the ones we care for.

Title: Re: Advice needed
Post by Svenn on Nov 17^th, 2004, 12:07pm

MINEFIELD

Title: Re: Advice needed
Post by Ruth on Nov 17^th, 2004, 12:10pm

Good advice from what I have read.
I don't think I have anything to add because you all said it very well.

Ruth

Title: Re: Advice needed
Post by LeLimey on Nov 17^th, 2004, 12:15pm

I would too (leave) but I have found in the past that if you give someone direct advice like that they dig their heels in and don't go.
Done it myself in the past
We all have our different "no go area's" My ex cheated on me constantly and openly. He belted the living daylights out of me too and I was so intimidated I was afraid to leave. The adultery was actually a blessed relief to be honest. The crunch for me came the day he slapped my son. I was gone with the kids and the clothes we stood up in there and then.

Title: Re: Advice needed
Post by sandie99 on Nov 17^th, 2004, 1:05pm

You are right, it IS a minefield. That's why I turned to you. I knew I could count on you... :)

I am going to meet my friend on Saturday and we're going to talk about these things. I know it's a complicated situation indeed. That's why I am going to stay as neutral as possible, but also as supportive as I can. A lot of nani therapy! :)

LeLimey,
I am so sorry that you had to be in that situation... [smiley=hug.gif]

best wishes,
sandie99

Title: Re: Advice needed
Post by Jeepgun on Nov 17^th, 2004, 1:14pm

Good for you, LeLimey! What motivation or gratification do men get from hitting women and kids? What the hell??

[smiley=huh.gif]

That's something I'll just never understand, nor do I want to understand. >:(

Title: Re: Advice needed
Post by LeLimey on Nov 17^th, 2004, 1:26pm

Its bullying isn't it? Picking on someone who you can get at. He really put the kids through the mill after I left him dragging me to and from court for access and then never turning up to see the kids.. and then dragging me back for denying access! More bullying all the time.. I got wise to him though and arranged contact at legal contact centres so when he didn't turn up and I did it couldn't be held against me.
I actually got my own back on him several times while we were together but in sneaky ways so he never knew. It might not have been direct standing up to him but at least deep down inside I knew he wasn't having the last word and it is amazing the strength you get from that! I did some really BAD things I have to say, like for instance he had a big thing about the U.S and was determined to live there so he used to chat American women up on line all the time. (think green card) He was going over to meet one this one particular time and expected me to iron his clothes and pack his case. So I did .....but I liberally shook itching powder into all his shirts and underwear so I'm sure she thought he had some terrible disease! That was the one and only time he went to Oklahoma anyway!
I also microwaved all his credit cards to destroy the magnetic strip so he couldn't get any money out while he was there.
A freeloading diseased Brit.. not a pretty picture huh?!
He eventually met a woman from Ohio and is living there now to the best of my knowledge but no doubt he'll only be nice to her until he gets his green card or whatever-the-hell they have to get these days!
I actually think I was the winner though in spite of broken bones etc because I found a strength I never knew I had and also because if I hadn't gone out with such a miserable, mean, hateful piece of dirt I wouldn't have fully appreciated just how wonderful my husband David is now.
He is most definitely my silver lining!! :)

Title: Re: Advice needed
Post by Ronny on Nov 17^th, 2004, 1:58pm

Sandi: i'm with limey on this one, you're probably gonna loose it anyway. I've been in a situation were good friends separately asked my advice, it's a loose-loose situation. Try to explain it to her, maybe she understands.

Limey: good for you, next time you see him, crack his nuts with my compliments. btw credit cards can easily be destroyed by rubbing a little magnet over the magnetic strip, the chip-card is harder. (dont ask me how i know this)

Ronny.

_{edit for SP}

Title: Re: Advice needed
Post by Jeepgun on Nov 17^th, 2004, 2:00pm

Broken bones? Dammit... >:(

I was walking back from getting a hamburger one night, and there was a man and a woman arguing under a streetlight. I couldn't make out the words, but I could make out his tone, growing louder and more threatening, and hers, growing smaller and more fearful. He smacked her, she fell, and that was it. I was running at him at full sprint, drawing my right arm back as I got closer and closer. I didn't even slow down as I punched him in the face. He went horizontal in the air like a cartoon character, before landing flat on his back. I'm pretty sure I either broke his nose or smashed some of his teeth, because when I got back to the barracks, I had blood all over my shirt.

Fucker... I hope I hurt him real bad. >:(

Title: Re: Advice needed
Post by LeLimey on Nov 17^th, 2004, 2:04pm

Good for you Frank I'm proud of you! [smiley=sayyes.gif]
Ronny, I know about the magnet trick now and as for the chip and pin cards... steam them gently over a kettle!!! and NO! I haven't done this.. I'm a reformed character these days!!!

Title: Re: Advice needed
Post by nani on Nov 17^th, 2004, 2:29pm

Quote:

I didn't even slow down as I punched him in the face. He went horizontal in the air like a cartoon character, before landing flat on his back. I'm pretty sure I either broke his nose or smashed some of his teeth, because when I got back to the barracks, I had blood all over my shirt.

Very chivalrous Frank, but a word of caution... when an abuser is called on his/her behavior by a third party, the person they abuse is most likely the one to pay the price for it. It's hard, when I see a parent who I think is being abusive, not to lash out at him/her. What I've learned to do instead (I was trained in child abuse prevention), is to engage the offender in some way. Make eye contact. Often I will mention (with a hint of empathy) how frustrating children can be, or how my 2 year old would often behave that way. Then I will follow up with what I did or do to deal with such a situation. It diffuses anger and makes the offender think for a minute.
I was married at 15 and had come straight from a very physically abusive home. My ex used to knock me around regularly. I thought it was normal. One night I had just had enough. When he hauled off and punched me in the face as I nursed our newborn I just snapped. I calmed the baby, finished nursing, stood up and proceeded to pound the living crap out of him. I finished by lifting the couch and I literally threw it at him. (Adrenaline is an amazing thing) Needless to say - he never touched me again. Of course the marriage didn't last too much longer either.

Title: Re: Advice needed
Post by Jeepgun on Nov 17^th, 2004, 2:36pm

You're right, Nani. At the time though, I was 21 years old and I was very passionate, very impulsive, and very angry, having grown up in a violently abusive household, myself. I was always fighting, and I enjoyed it. It may have ended up badly for the woman, but I hope it didn't. It certainly ended up badly for him, though. I doubt if he expected to get hit by a train. LOL

Good for you for getting yourself and your baby out of that situation!

-Frank

Title: Re: Advice needed
Post by BobG on Nov 18^th, 2004, 3:46am

Hmmm, let’s see here………

1. been with her fiancé for four years
2. been engaged for little over a year
3. relationship has had lots of problems all the time.
4. he has cheated her - twice
5. he's not exactly what she is looking for in a partner

Here’s what I see……….
1 & 2. It took him 3 years to ask her to marry him and that was over a year ago. That sounds like he knew she had doubts about their relationship and was desperate to hang on to someone, anyone, dumb enough to put up with his crap.
3. Why is she so desperate for a partner, any partner, that she’ll put up with “problems all the time”?
4. Once- shame on him. Twice- shame on her.
5. he's not exactly what she is looking for in a partner, after 4 years he still won’t marry her, they have problems all the time, he cheats on her and she still asks “Should I stay with him?”

My answer is “Yes, marry him. He’s a cheating bastard and you’re dumb as hell. You two deserve each other. But please, don’t reproduce. The world does not need more of your kind”.

[smiley=twocents.gif]

Title: LeLimey
Post by Testy1 on Nov 18^th, 2004, 4:44am

WTF? The guy broke your bones? It's hard to imagine some not a very nice person that would hit a woman that hard or indeed at all.
You must be a very nice person, if I hit my wife harder than a swat on the rear, I'd be afraid to go to sleep. After all, she has all those sharp things in the kitchen and there are dark rumors about Thai women.
I've never been able to excuse a man that hits women. It just seems such a sleazy thing to do.

Jack

Title: Nani
Post by Testy1 on Nov 18^th, 2004, 5:11am

Good on ya for pounding the guy. I think those guys are just so surprised at someone fighting back that they don't know what to do. Throwing a sofa is pretty impressive as well. Remind me not to get you peeved with me. :D

Jack

Title: Re: Advice needed
Post by nani on Nov 18^th, 2004, 12:15pm

Quote:

Remind me not to get you peeved with me

It's funny- I'm an extremely patient and good natured person. I have been called Mr Theresa by some ( a compliment I don't think I deserve). I am assertive but not at all agressive...unless I get REALLY pissed off. I pity the fool who gets me that angry, because I really think I could do some serious damage. ( [smiley=huh.gif]repressed anger maybe?) I shudder to think about what I could be capable of...

Title: Re: Advice needed
Post by Jeepgun on Nov 18^th, 2004, 1:57pm

You just don't fuck with a woman who's holding her baby. Women will put up with a lot of shit, but if you mess with their children, cancel Christmas. It's one of those hardwired things that Mother Nature rigged into their genes.