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Title: A Hated Minority Post by Bethany1 on Nov 6th, 2004, 12:25pm I am a liberal and I am rapidly becoming a hated minority in this country. Here is how many conservatives are stereotyping me: I don't get "it." I am out of touch. I do not understand America. I have rage. I am morally deficient. I feel, but don't know how to think, while being an intellectual elitist that supported a candidate that used his brain too much. I am not patriotic. I do not honor those who sacrifice in Iraq and Afghanistan because I have doubts about the policy behind the war in Iraq. I am tired of being constructed as a "lessor" American and an incompetent voter, with a bankrupt vision for my country. I too pay my taxes. I do my job and adhere to my responsibilities. I care about all Americans and respect the voice of the people as they re-elected Mr. Bush. My positions on many policy matters derive from my love for my country. And though most conservatives may not agree with me, my points of view are just as rational, legitimate, thoughtful, and based in ethics and morality as theirs. In 2000 there was talk of sore "loserman." In 2004 we are lacking gracious winners. We lack winners who obviously do not understand democracy and what it means to respect and honor the opposition. Mr. Madison wrote much about the "faction of the majority" when he was constructing his vision for our new country. Mr. Washington understood the importance of unification and consensus. Mr. Bush has spoken eloquently in recent days along similar lines. I intend to wait and see where he takes us next before attacking him. Why can't Mr. Bush's supporters join him and follow his leadership? Why can't his supporters be gracious and allow the losing side a moment or two to vent? I am not sure that today's new majority understands the importance of compromise, tolerence and plurality. This is what makes American democracy work. And as they lack this critical understanding they place their ability to lead this country in jeopardy and will very likely watch their new conservative coalition fail. |
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Title: Re: A Hated Minority Post by alleyoop on Nov 6th, 2004, 12:35pm Check out carnivalcruise.com. ;;D ................alley ;;D |
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Title: Re: A Hated Minority Post by Jonny on Nov 6th, 2004, 1:01pm on 11/06/04 at 12:35:35, alleyoop wrote:
LMAO ;;D....Good one !! |
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Title: Re: A Hated Minority Post by Bethany1 on Nov 6th, 2004, 1:07pm You guys just validated my point. |
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Title: Re: A Hated Minority Post by Jonny on Nov 6th, 2004, 1:10pm on 11/06/04 at 13:07:28, Bethany1 wrote:
Somebody has to ;;D |
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Title: Re: A Hated Minority Post by BillyJ. on Nov 6th, 2004, 1:34pm I'm a Bad American: Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 Written by Ted Nugent, the rock singer and hunter/naturalist, upon hearing that California Senators B. Boxer and D. Feinstein denounced him for being a "gun owner" and a "Rock Star." This was his response after telling the senators about his past contributions to children's charities and scholarship foundations which have totaled more than $13.7 million in the last 5 years! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I'm a Bad American-this pretty much sums it up for me. I like big trucks, big boats, big houses, and naturally, pretty women. I believe the money I make belongs to me and my family, not some midlevel governmental functionary with a bad comb-over who wants to give it away to crack addicts squirting out babies. I don't care about appearing compassionate. I think playing with toy guns doesn't make you a killer. I believe ignoring your kids and giving them Prozac might. I think I'm doing better than the homeless. I don't think being a minority makes you noble or victimized. I have the right not to be tolerant of others because they are different, weird or make me mad. This is my life to live, and not necessarily up to others expectations. I know what SEX is and there are not varying degrees of it. I don't celebrate Kwanzaa. But if you want to that's fine; I just don't feel like everyone else should have to. I believe that if you are selling me a Dairy Queen shake, a pack of cigarettes, or hotel room you do it in English. As of matter of fact, if you are an American citizen you should speak English. My uncles and forefathers shouldn't have had to die in vain so you can leave the countries you were born in to come disrespect ours, and make us bend to your will. Get over it. I think the cops have every right to shoot your sorry butt if you're running from them after they tell you to stop. If you can't understand the word 'freeze' or 'stop' in English, see the previous line. I don't use the excuse "it's for the children" as a shield for unpopular opinions or actions. I know how to count votes and I feel much safer letting a machine with no political affiliation do a recount when needed. I know what the definition of lying is, and it isn't based on the word "is"-ever. I don't think just because you were not born in this country, you qualify for any special loan programs, gov's sponsored bank loans, etc., so you can open a hotel, 7-Eleven, trinket shop, or any thing else, while the indigenous peoples can't get past a high school education because they can't afford it. I didn't take the initiative in inventing the Internet. ,,,continued,,,,, |
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Title: Re: A Hated Minority Post by BillyJ. on Nov 6th, 2004, 1:35pm I thought the Taco Bell dog was funny. I want them to bring back safe and sane fireworks. I believe no one ever died because of something Ozzy Osbourne, Ice-T or Marilyn Manson sang, but that doesn't mean I want to listen to that crap from someone else's car when I'm stopped at a red light. But I respect your right to. I think that being a student doesn't give you any more enlightenment than working at Blockbuster or Jack In The Box. I don't want to eat or drink anything with the words light, lite or fat-free on the package. Our soldiers did not go to some foreign country and risk their lives in vain and defend our Constitution so that decades later you can tell me it's a living document ever changing and is open to interpretation. The guys who wrote it were light years ahead of anyone today, and they meant what they said -- now leave the document alone, or there's going to be trouble. I don't hate the rich. I help the poor. I know wrestling is fake. I've never owned, or was a slave, and a large percentage of our forefathers weren't wealthy enough to own one either. Please stop blaming me because some prior white people were idiots -- and remember, tons of white, Indian, Chinese, and other races have been enslaved too -- it was wrong for every one of them. I believe a self-righteous liberal with a cause is more dangerous than a Hell's Angel with an attitude. I want to know exactly which church is it where the "Reverend"Jessie Jackson preaches; and, what exactly is his job function. I own a gun, you can own a gun, and any red blooded American should be allowed to own a gun, but if you use it in a crime, then you will serve the time. I think Bill Gates has every right to keep every penny he made and continue to make more. If it makes you mad, then invent the next operating system that's better and put your name on the building. Ask your buddy that invented the Internet to help you. I don't believe in hate crime legislation. Even suggesting it makes me mad. You're telling me that someone who is a minority, gay, disabled, another nationality, or otherwise different from the mainstream of this country has more value as a human being that I do as a white male. If someone kills anyone, I'd say that it's a hate crime. We don't need more laws! Let's enforce the ones we already have. I think turkey bacon, turkey beef, turkey fake anything sucks. I believe that it doesn't take a village to raise a child-it takes a parent with the guts to stand up to the kid and spank his butt and say "NO!" when it's necessary to do so. I'll admit that the only movie that ever made me cry was Ole Yeller. I didn't realize Dr. Seuss was a genius until I had a kid. I will not be frowned upon or be looked down upon or be made to keep silent because I have these beliefs and opinions. I thought this country allowed me that right. I will not conform or compromise just to keep from hurting somebody's feelings. I'm neither angry nor disenfranchised, no matter how desperately the mainstream media would like the world to believe otherwise. Yes, I guess by some people's definition, I may be a bad American. But that's tough. |
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Title: Re: A Hated Minority Post by john_d on Nov 6th, 2004, 1:41pm Bethany, You have an obvious point, what's there to prove. It's true, you are minority, but so are the folks on the far right. The majority of the US are silent *moderates*. They are not going to insult you and frankly they won't even engage in any political talk. They want the US to do well, they believe in moderate, reasonable changes to our makeup and they *don't* want radical changes that will rock the boat and make us unstable. They may identify with one party or the other, some are democrats and some are republicans. This election a great 'polarization' happened. How? The moderates who identify with republicans felt like they were being attacked by vocal liberals, and the opposite was probably true. Being attacked causes a human being to take a defensive posture. As far as the insults being thrown at you (the ones you discussed in your post), IMHO you are choosing to listen to the wrong people. [smiley=twocents.gif] John D |
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Title: Re: A Hated Minority Post by Ree on Nov 6th, 2004, 2:01pm I like you Bethany........... its all about being an American. You can pierce your ears... you can jump up and down (as long as you do it between certain hours)... you can say what you want~~~ you can like what you want... but you have to realize everyone isnt going to agree with you... Congratulations on being American!!!! I love my status! Ree ps Mr Bush is supposed to be moraly ok because he doesnt believe in abortion according to this country... Well what about the Death Penalty doesn't his state kill several people a year... and that was also going on during his "reign" as Governor.......... don't let those nutz bother you... His moralz are a little twisted if you ask me... He doesnt killem young no he waits til they are 17 and sends them off to war~~~ go figure... I don't believe in abortion either but... |
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Title: Re: A Hated Minority Post by Jimmy_B on Nov 6th, 2004, 2:02pm Well the Rebublicans don't have an excuse now. They have the majority in the House & Senate & also the President. So everything is going to be Peaches & Roses, by the next 4 years & if it isn't...Who will they blame???? Hmmmmm, I'm sure they'll find something or somebody. Jimmy |
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Title: Re: A Hated Minority Post by BobG on Nov 6th, 2004, 2:52pm Morally correct is: Hungry kids in Appalachia, Under funded schools in in most states, Americans unable to get a hospital bed in California because they are all taken by illegal aliens and paid for by American taxpayers, Shipping nuclear waste from the East coast (where gigantic profits are made), across the USA (by a minimum-wage trucker with the lowest bid), passed YOUR house and neighborhood, to Nevada (that has no nuclear facilities to profit from nor ever produced nuclear waste), to be put in a leaky cave built on an earthquake fault, To take the economy from a surplus to an unheard of deficit. To move 7 million jobs to foreign countries. To attack a foreign country that IS NOT and has NEVER BEEN a threat to the USA and have American soldiers, sailors and marines dying there. And morally correct is a dead child in Iraq is still dead. :'( |
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Title: Re: A Hated Minority Post by sandie99 on Nov 6th, 2004, 3:10pm Bethany1, if it's any conselation, there are nation with 71% of people who would have wanted Kerry to win and ask now: what the hell they were thinking? The country is called Finland. |
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Title: Re: A Hated Minority Post by Kevin_M on Nov 6th, 2004, 3:20pm Billy, Deadly Tedly runs many safe-gunhandling camps year round here in MI and is real big about keeping kids off drugs. He personally spends time with kids hunting and fishing and camping and makes it very clear he will personally address anyone. I respect his educational gun programs and his anti-drug efforts, he's created a lot of good. He's never short of words. Kevin M |
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Title: Re: A Hated Minority Post by Jonny on Nov 6th, 2004, 3:21pm This is America.....there for I have every right to tell you all to SHUT THE FUCK UP! We are not dems or repubs....we are clusterheads! Election is over....so get over yourselfs (Thanks Drummer) |
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Title: Re: A Hated Minority Post by Donna_D. on Nov 6th, 2004, 3:26pm on 11/06/04 at 14:01:32, Ree wrote:
Since 1982, 332 people have been executed by the Texas Department of Corrections. Every one of the executed was give due process under the law and found guilty. http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/stat/deathrow.htm There is a HUGE difference between abortion and the death penalty. Babies don't murder people. But Texans do execute murderers. And if you steal our horses, legally we can hang you from our oak tree out in the back forty ;).... I am PROUD to be an AMERICAN and a TEXAN. My [smiley=twocents.gif] DD |
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Title: Re: A Hated Minority Post by kimh on Nov 6th, 2004, 3:32pm Bethany, I am a conservative. I have heard the exact same things mentioned in your post directed towards MY views. I agree with John D's post in that it's the loudest voices who often spew the smallest sense. There is no hate and we all have our views. The "hate" you speak of is the voice of media and propaganda on behalf of those whose pockets are delivering the message. :) This crap comes from both sides and is not a reflection on you, me or the next guy in the voting booth. No one living in the US is a "hated minority". You need information on hated minorities?...... just take out your handy dandy world map and check it out. There is plenty of hated minorities in plenty of places throughout the world. That's why they are literally dying to get into THIS country. Just for that exquisite freedom to complain............. All we can do in the end is listen!!!!!!! And learn!!!!!!!!! And be damn thankful that we shall always be afforded the opportunity to form our own values and let them be heard*** PFDAN |
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Title: Re: A Hated Minority Post by BobG on Nov 6th, 2004, 3:35pm Quote:
Right on Donna! |
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Title: Re: A Hated Minority Post by floridian on Nov 6th, 2004, 3:42pm on 11/06/04 at 14:52:06, BobG wrote:
I use the term fundamentally correct. The current buzz over 'values' being the most important campaign issue only makes sense if the word 'values' is seen as a code for fundamentalists that want an American theocracy. Its not that 20% of the voters are the only ones concerned with values - its just that 1 in 5 people want the government to promote religion. Their interpretation of religion. |
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Title: Re: A Hated Minority Post by Charlie on Nov 6th, 2004, 4:14pm The thing is, liberals are the majority. They just don't vote like the right. Republicans know they are outnumbered so they always vote and rarely have third party stuff to deal with. Democrats have behaved like idiots for the last two elections. Why they didn't pound daily on health care, health care, health care, is beyond me. Also, because of the fear and hate mongers on the far right, people are persuaded to vote against their own economic and political interests. It's quite amazing that these people will shoot themselves in the foot to avoid having those door to door flag burning abortionists and amoral gays living next door having their sex parties and recruiting your children. Neocons need hate tagetes. They decided to hate us. Fear and religion are the main wedges. They try to make us feel guilty for all the wrongs in society and that if we even think about taking a second look, we are unpatriotic. Only blind faith is good, reasoned approaches are bad, liberal, anti-American, dangerous, and ungodly. It's worked so far. The most dangerous thing about them is we have a man in office that thinks it's fine that this blind faith should trump science. That goes against our long history of inventiveness and rationalism. I wouldn't have used Iraq so much. Most people don't get that we are using it as a wedge in that part of the world. By making lots of noise and having a few bases there, the rest of them there A-Rabs have to play nice with us. Iraqis won't of course, nobody likes being occupied but Saudis know they must. Politics is facing realities. Bush does anything but; because we have been lazy, he doesn't have to....for now. Aside from one or two social issues, these neocons don't care for us, they care only about getting elected. Even then, they ignore us. George is anything but a "compassionate conservative." He isn't even a conservative. He's a danger to us and the world. Our biggest assault in the war on Iraq has been against the Bill of Rights. No need to feel bad about being a liberal. It's Bush that has united our enemies and alienated our friends. Just the opposite of conservatism. Never fear, over time, historically, things tend get better. This current dip on the reality chart will get a boost from one of us. My hope is that for our sake it won't take a Bush blunder to wake us up. I truly do. He isn't evil. He just wants to be liked by the entire right wing. That's not good for anybody. The President is here to serve us, not we to serve him. Charlie |
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Title: Re: A Hated Minority Post by kimh on Nov 6th, 2004, 4:30pm Charlie, i voted with full knowledge of my rights under the constitution of the United States of America. Yew suggest that those that voted outside their political affiliation did so out of "fear"??????????? Fear of what exactly???? Charlie, I think you are a nice man who is intimidated by the wrong elements of the world. You live upstate NY - rite? You deal with antiques? rite? You seem like such an amicable guy, yet i sense that you are angry. I have never understood your comments regarding the existing process RITE HERE WHERE YOU LIVE AND ENJOY A SEEMINGLY STABLE LIFE when you MUST KNOW HOW BAD IT COULD BE ELSEWHERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am curious to hear your comments when and if and in the event a democrat ACTUALLY DOES MANAGE TO GET THEMSELVES ELECTED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Why do you INSIST on the negative input and expect us to eat it up when it is only the exact opposite side of the same block of crap and helps NO ONE???? |
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Title: Re: A Hated Minority Post by Pegase on Nov 6th, 2004, 4:54pm on 11/06/04 at 15:21:05, Jonny wrote:
That is the best quote of the day... I'm tired of earing those things... can we talk about something else now. |
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Title: Re: A Hated Minority Post by kimh on Nov 6th, 2004, 5:06pm Plug your hole. I still want Charlie to answer the question. :P See? This is why Americans are so ..............so...................so.............................(what?) so......................fucking fantastic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Title: Re: A Hated Minority Post by Charlie on Nov 6th, 2004, 5:11pm Quote:
No. There is nothing wrong with being or having conservative views. It's that a lot of poor people in red states, who probably can't affrord to study political science, vote for whom Pat Robertson says rather than look around a bit. I'm an atheist but I'm not one of the screwballs who cares about nativity scenes in the town square, crosses, ten commandments in city hall or the pledge of allegiance. It's minor stuff to me and I don't think this kind of thing, when there are more important questions in the world, should be such a determinant in an election. Looks like it is though. Quote:
Fear professed by tv preachers, gays, abortion, prayer in schools, and telling people that Democrats would ban the bible, even in bookstores. Also that everybody has to hunker down, everywhere because Homeland Security says so. This kind of thing is often used as a way to grab a little more power....by both sides. Quote:
To you and so many, the wrong elements are anyone you don't agree with. I remember when we were posting about who we would like to see running in the election. I said John McCain and General Wesley Clark on my side. The first thing I got was a post all about how bad Clark's ideas were. General Clark is a good guy. Quote:
What? Quote:
My negative input pales in the face of swift boat rants and all the bashing of Kerry's war records. The Bush campaigin was nothing but negative. Worked. I don't expect everyone to eat it up. It's just that my side seems outnumbered here. You let Ted get away with it. As I've said before, it's okay to be a conservative. It's not okay to be nuts. The far far right and the Noam Chomskys (to add one to my side) fall into the nut category. The newly elected Senator from Oklahoma said that the schools are rampant with lesbians. Hard to beat that for rational thought. Tell you what: It's good exercise....and yer right, I am a nice guy. So are the rest of us. I like politics and the people here are pretty good at it too. Charlie |
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Title: Re: A Hated Minority Post by Pegase on Nov 6th, 2004, 5:12pm Well... go ahead Charlie... make her day ;) Anyway Charlie is one of the few I like to read :P Politically talking of course... for the rest I like to read you all ;) Phil |
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Title: Re: A Hated Minority Post by Bethany1 on Nov 6th, 2004, 5:16pm Wow Look what I started. |
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Title: Re: A Hated Minority Post by Redd715 on Nov 6th, 2004, 5:20pm Not the first political debate on this MB and certainly won't be the last..... I stay out of these debates...as they always said the best way to win enemys is to discus politics, sex, or religion.... I think Sex in this group is the safest of all topics....Now if I could only remember what that was again I'd have something to add to the discussion.... [smiley=laugh.gif] |
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Title: Re: A Hated Minority Post by kimh on Nov 6th, 2004, 5:27pm Thankfully our country is run on check and balance. In our schools it is a privelgedge and not a rite to worship religiously - so liberals can thank the powers that be.........which is the democratic process ::) In our country young women have the power to both vote and take part in their own destiny - so liberals can thank the powers that be ...........which is the democratic process........... In our country public schools offer kids EVERYWHERE the BEST universal education ...........liberals can thank the powers that be........it's still the democratic process. NO ONE is EVER going to take away our basic rites as commonwealth individuals regardless of race, religion, social or sexual orientation. Why this is making a resounding blast off directed to the VERY people who made this possible in the first place is both an insult and WRONG message to be making to people everywhere. Who is making fun of who????? I am a conservative. I speak not from the voices of media. I speak as an American and i don't apologize for the things i see taken advangage of and twisted and twirled around throughout the world that have NOTHING to do with how i feel as an American. Don't think it's gonna work next time either. I say these things from my heart. I also speak for the millions of gay people who do NOT speak from the voice of the "liberal" left. I say these things from the many veterans i know who also do not and will never accept the policies expressed by the Kerry ticket. My voice as a conservative means so much more than the democratic liberal ticket is willing to listen to. It is unfortunate for them. Once again, i ask that democratic voters avoid placing those not in their arena near them = or face future losses. It's that simple. There is no neo-conservative without his subsequent counterpart and i t hink both votes are bunk, do not talk the talk of the world we live in today. :-* |
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Title: Re: A Hated Minority Post by Pegase on Nov 6th, 2004, 5:28pm on 11/06/04 at 17:20:37, Redd715 wrote:
LMAO Redd [smiley=laugh.gif] |
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Title: Re: A Hated Minority Post by john_d on Nov 6th, 2004, 5:55pm on 11/06/04 at 16:14:00, Charlie wrote:
Charlie, constructive criticism- you started with an assumption that I do not think is true and I know you can't prove otherwise. How can I read on? edited to remove harshness |
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Title: Re: A Hated Minority Post by Pinkfloyd on Nov 6th, 2004, 6:16pm on 11/06/04 at 16:14:00, Charlie wrote:
on 11/06/04 at 16:14:00, Charlie wrote:
Care to reconcile your two statements? Face it, fear and hate mongering is;1) In the eye of the beholder, and 2) what gets polititions from both sides elected and always will. Posted by: Bethany1 Posted on: Today at 11:25am I am a liberal and I am rapidly becoming a hated minority in this country. Most people don't hate the folks on the other side of an issue. They may hate something they do or support, but not the person. It seems the people you feel hate you, the far right, feel quite the opposite about you. They don't hate you, they want to "save" you. Don't be afraid. I'm no expert, but I don't think they can do that without your approval. Posted by: Bethany1 Posted on: Today at 11:25am Mr. Madison wrote much about the "faction of the majority" when he was constructing his vision for our new country. I am not sure that today's new majority understands the importance of compromise, tolerence and plurality. This is what makes American democracy work. Our government does not work on compromise. It works by one side writing a bill they want, and the other side not signing on until theyhave added their portion of pork onto the bill. A liberal will sign a bill to put welfare moms to work as long as he gets a new governmental building in his district where HIS welfare moms can work. A conservative will sign a bill funding a new art and recreation center as long as his company can build it. This is not what you meant by compromise. Your vision of compromise would have been one building, with the arts and rec center on the first floor and government offices on the 2nd floor so the politicos would have to walk past the welfare moms dropping off their kids. The building would be built by a minority contractor, with materials supplied by Haliburton. Paid for with Bill gates' money and an abortion clinic on the third floor. Ain't gonna happen in my lifetime. ;-) "A just security to property is not afforded by that government, under which unequal taxes oppress one species of property and reward another species." James Madison, Essay on Property, March 29, 1792 I don't think you'd be voting for James. ;-) "A universal peace, it is to be feared, is in the catalogue of events, which will never exist but in the imaginations of visionary philosophers, or in the breasts of benevolent enthusiasts. " James Madison, essay in the National Gazette, February 2, 1792 That's Charlie....our visionary philosopher ;-) "Among the features peculiar to the political system of the United States, is the perfect equality of rights which it secures to every religious sect. " James Madison, letter to Jacob de la Motta, August 1820 I don't think Floridian would be voting for old James either. I left out his most far-right religious quotes. "As long as the reason of man continues fallible, and he is at liberty to exercise it, different opinions will be formed. As long as the connection subsists between his reason and his self-love, his opinions and his passions will have a reciprocal influence on each other." James Madison, Federalist No. 10, November 23, 1787 I believe we are more sure and more passionate about our opinions these days. Probably more fallible also because everything is so much more complicated than they used to be. Charlie is absolutely correct about Iraq but that can't be explained in a 30 second sound bite, the day before an election. People don't have time to read a paper anymore, let alone go to a library to study a subject. Is it bad to be passionate? Only if you disagree with their opinion. "As there is a degree of depravity in mankind which requires a certain degree of circumspection and distrust: So there are other qualities in human nature, which justify a certain portion of esteem and confidence. Republican government presupposes the existence of these qualities in a higher degree than any other form. Were the pictures which have been drawn by the political jealousy of some among us, faithful likenesses of the human character, the inference would be that there is not sufficient virtue among men for self-government; and that nothing less than the chains of despotism can restrain them from destroying and devouring one another. " James Madison, Federalist No. 55, February 15, 1788 Would you rather live with the feeling that people hated you for your beliefs, or live with hatred in your heart for others? I myself would rather feel hated by others that do not know what is in my heart, than hold hate in my heart for others I do not know. Pinkfloyd, clusterheadache papers, November 6, 2004 [smiley=hug.gif] |
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Title: Re: A Hated Minority Post by fubar on Nov 6th, 2004, 6:43pm Quote:
So Charlie, what you're saying is that conservatives are the majority of the vote? Do I hear that right? Or are you saying that most liberals are too stupid to vote? What would you do? Deny them the right to vote? Restrict their access to right wing propoganda? How do you think this gets fixed? I tell people, you want change? Vote! Fact is the democratic PARTY (not registered democrats, big big difference) lost touch with their constituants because they tried to make everybody believe the bullshit that you repeat here about the evil conservatives. That extremist view turns off voters. The Republicans won by sticking to the issues for the most part, however stupid those issues were. They don't pick the issues, they just are trying to at least talk about them. Charlie, you *are* a nice guy. But this topic sends you over the edge in terms of rationality. Every point you bring up, almost every single one, can used in the opposite context. I could substitite 'conservative' with 'liberal' in all of your statements and probably pass it off as a Right Wing slam on the dems. The fact is, you take the same extremeist viewpoints on your left that the 'neocons' you talk about say on the right. Fear. Fear. Fear. The Republicans will force religion down your throat... the Republicans will destroy Social Security... the Republicans won't fix health care... the Republicans are hate mongers... Enough. The same CRAP is said by Rush and other conservative extremists about the LEFT. Jesus, it amazes me how extremists like you are so blind to the fact that YOU are the minority... people aren't buying the extremist bullshit from EITHER side any more. The fact is, most of America didn't want Kerry. Get over it and help us make this country great. Don't waste your energy chasing phantom boogymen and made-up crisis. Quote:
What? Are you kidding me? The ONLY thing the democrats pinned their hopes on was bashing Bush enough to convince Democrats to vote for Kerry. I never heard ONE real plan from Kerry. I never heard Kerry say anything other then how bad Bush was and how horrible it will be if he is re-elected. Kerry's campaign was 100% negative in every aspect. Attack Attack Attack. Hope they'll hate Bush enough to vote me in by default. Say whatever it takes, but convince the American public that Bush needs to be voted out. Not once did I hear Kerry tell me why to vote Kerry in. Big difference. What has happened here is we have extremists on both side, and a WHOLE LOT of people in the middle. The vote can go either way, it really can. But I'd bet my money on the party that puts a real candidate forth who talks about real plans and doesn't pin their hopes on just bashing the opponent 'enough'. Do you know how empty your argument is about Bush running a negative campaign? Pro Kerry vs. Pro Bush media articles was a little lopsided 8 to 1. Anti-Kerry vs. Anti-Bush was even worse, 1 to 12. All the American public heard was negative on Bush and a little background chatter that was negative on Kerry. Quote:
I guess you're not safe anywhere. But you needn't worry. We only drop bombs on brown people. |
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Title: Re: A Hated Minority Post by Kevin_M on Nov 6th, 2004, 6:44pm on 11/06/04 at 18:16:11, Pinkfloyd wrote:
Bob, I fail to see where this has a remote reference to religion or in context to be attributed to Floridian's comment. Above, difference of opinion is universal in democracy, self-love and passion refers to needs and wants. Quote:
Kevin M |
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Title: Re: A Hated Minority Post by kimh on Nov 6th, 2004, 6:46pm As a moderate conservative i would like to challenge Charlie to point out where specifically i pointed out ONE SINGLE representative in name as opposed to the names of his opposing views that Charlie loves to point out and put in a certain lite in the same veign as some mass produced media program??? Go ahead. I dare ya. Where in one WORD did i mention the name of ONE candidate with the intent to put that candidates views in the same lite i watch on television???? HOWEVER: I'd like you all to follow this thread once again closely and take note of the times a conservative candidate was expressed ...... lets see how this ONE SMALL THREAD survey expresses what people are saying to one another.... BETS???? Lay em down. |
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Title: Re: A Hated Minority Post by john_d on Nov 6th, 2004, 6:57pm on 11/06/04 at 18:43:11, fubar wrote:
You know, you are right, I tried it. lol ;;D too funny |
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Title: Re: A Hated Minority Post by Bethany1 on Nov 6th, 2004, 7:03pm Heres my bet...... I bet if I ever meet any of you guys... your going to bonk me on the head for starting this thread. 5 bucks? ;) truth? I started this thread because a couple people were whispering about my lance armstrong bracelet (livestrong) that I had on at the store. "oh shes a libby, look at her bracelet" I guess because J. Kerry was sporting one. Oh well, Im over it now. I am who I am. I love this country, I love this world, I just hate my head and the way it makes me feel emotionally. But hey, its saturday night and Im going out. So you all have a great night!!!!! |
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Title: Re: A Hated Minority Post by Redd715 on Nov 6th, 2004, 7:13pm If my head wasn't misbehaving so bad recently I'd be going out too...but I'm not in the mood to be the star of another public freak show sponsored by Beast Reality TV. It's me and my computer tonight. |
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Title: Re: A Hated Minority Post by alleyoop on Nov 6th, 2004, 7:52pm on 11/06/04 at 19:13:03, Redd715 wrote:
Care to cyber?http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung0304/teufel/devil-smiley-006.gif ..................alley ;;D |
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Title: Re: A Hated Minority Post by Pinkfloyd on Nov 6th, 2004, 8:24pm on 11/06/04 at 18:44:13, Kevin_M wrote:
Sorry kevin. I know the post was difficult to follow. I should have added some color. The quote on religion was above the one you quoted. It read: "Among the features peculiar to the political system of the United States, is the perfect equality of rights which it secures to every religious sect. " James Madison, letter to Jacob de la Motta, August 1820 in another..... "The civil rights of none, shall be abridged on account of religious belief or worship, nor shall any national religion be established, nor shall the full and equal rights of conscience be in any manner, or on any pretext infringed. " James Madison, proposed amendment to the Constitution, given in a speech in the House of Representatives, 1789 He was also very careful about problems that could arise if religion and government did not stay separate. I'm suppose he is just saying that even people with religious beliefs have all the same rights as those without any at all. This would include freedom of speech, freedom to assemble and freedom to vote. Also that those right's were not meant to be applied on a diminishing scale, based upon how deeply held those beliefs may run. A person's right to protest (peacefully) outside of an abortion clinic should not be abridged nor should the rights of a PETA member should he/she decide to protest (peacefully) in front of a butcher shop, should their consciences put them there. It is the government's responsibility to allow these things to take place. It is the citizenries place to become enlightened enough to look upon both groups with understanding and a sense of peace. At peace with the evidence that people with deeply held convictions, even those you may not agree with, are not only willing to stand up for what they believe, but are allowed to do so. Who knows; the people that are speaking up, that you don't agree with, just might be right. Although I feel it's a little condescending for Charlie to feel that life isn't fair because millions of Americans vote incorrectly because they can't read. I wasn't aware that people that can't read, all vote republican, interesting. (I suppose the conservatives could spot the liberals 10 million votes to make up for it, if that's true.) OTOH, if the liberals would get behind the position that it's more important that children actually learn to read, than it is for an illiterate union tenured teacher to keep his/her job, they may pick up all the votes they need. ;-) PF BTW Kevin, thanks for the book suggestions in the other thread. I'll try to pick up, The Essential Difference. |
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Title: Re: A Hated Minority Post by Charlie on Nov 6th, 2004, 10:01pm From all your posts, I must have been too harsh. After taking a beating like we did at the polls, I think I'm entitled to one or two rants to get over my disappointment? It's funny. As I read your replies, I now understand what I heard from former Senator; Alan Simpson last night. He is one of my Republican heroes from the days when I was still with the GOP. He tore into our bashing of the evangelicals and I thought he was going off the deep end as he is far from a neocon.. He said that they are really pissed at being made whipping boys by the left. I guess he's right. It was David Brooks in the NY Times today, that points out that the religious vote wasn't really significantly larger than last time. I didn't know that. Bush won on the social issues but it wasn't just their votes. It was that they believe him and like that he drags God into his decisions. From my point of view it's ridiculous of course but atheists are definitely a minority. I just have a personal dislike for what TV preachers ask of their flock. I don't have a problem with religion until it gets in my way. The post-election pundits use the evangelicals as an easy way out. Bush certainly would have lost without them but there is more to it. It will be interesting follow. Just to let you know, James Madison is my hero and would get my vote in a minute. An awful lot of the Constitution, that has lasted 180 some years longer than expected is largely his baby. Quote:
Yes. It's true that Kerry wasn't able to come up with a definite plan. He was a bad candidate in that respect. He tried to please moderate Republicans. Not a good idea and Democrats need to learn this. Kerry doesn't have the skill of Bill Clinton. Quote:
I can't prove this. I do believe that liberals do outnumber conservatives but they don't vote. Some of it is education and history. We need a touchstone like abortion to fire up our flock too. Quote:
Bush doesn't hate us. I'll give him that. However, he does aim his political support to people that pay for it. Got money? I'm all yours. He has lied too many times to have any support from me. Quote:
Just the opposite is true. The country hasn't been farther apart. I still believe that the extremists on the right make more noise. I left the GOP because this. The left has to have some room to make noise too. They are nowhere near as loud however. What does it take to get you to understand that the over 300 hours a week of right wing radio screechers entitle the left to do the same? It's okay so long as it's your side doing the endless 527 rants. I don't really understand Kim's post. I need help. Charlie |
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Title: Re: A Hated Minority Post by Tom K on Nov 6th, 2004, 10:23pm To get this back to topic, a little. Bethany, you can do what ever your little heart desires. I don't care, and I don't have to pay attention. That is MY right. I'm an evil Republican and have been since I can remember. I went through the rebellion years, died my hair blue, wore the safety pin in the ear, played in a few '80's metal bands...I was still a Republican. Do what ever it is that you want to do. That is the beauty of America. Remember that. You aren't going to be dragged out of your house in the middle of the night and shot because of your beliefs. Many people may not get you, may not care to listen to you, but that is their right. You have to honor their right, just as you expect them to honor your's. Your party and it's supporters don't help themselves with their preception with web sites like www.sorryeverybody.com or the likes of Al Franken and Michael Moore. Where did the two of them go since the election? It also doesn't help when media talking heads say things like, "The Kerry camp got votes in the major metropolis areas, where people are better educated and more intellectual." That makes Republicans get pretty pissed off. The voices of a few can piss off many. Charlie will counter with Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity and his other whipping boys. (I know his modis operandi) If you can, see if you can find the speach Mayor Daley of Chicago gave the other day. It was at the same time he was saying that he is going to raise taxes in Chicago, but the rest of his message was pretty right on and should be listened to by the Left. If the Left can get it together, they would put up a good/better candidate. What Daley basically said what that the Left thinks too inside the beltway (Washington DC) and they don't listen to what the people in the Red states have to say. Look at Daschle. He was Senator from SD for 26(?) years. Got voted out because he wasn't listening to the state. Kerry was not the right candidate at the right time, to coin a phrase. If you ran Dean, there may have been an different outcome. There are a lot of Republicans out there, Charlie. More than you think, from your posts. We sometimes don't open our mouths in front of the Leftys because it is more fun to sit back and listen to them spew. ;;D And as for your religion/fear thingy. I don't follow any religion, never have, never will. What fun things can you come up with to explain how I vote? Huh? And as for fear, we have to look at it every night on the news...oh, old people are going to have to eat cat food...oh, kids are getting fatter...oh, your car is going to blow up...oh, the government is going to take away this program...the news isn't like it was 20 years ago. Hell, I remember in 1977 the big thing was GLOBAL COOLING. We were supposed to get ready for the next ice age...where did that go? How could we go from global cooling to global warming in 24 years? Not possible. Anyways...Bethany, stay the way you are. Just remember...not everyone is going to pay attention, and that's their right, just like it is your's to have your beliefs. T The shit stirring Republican |
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Title: Re: A Hated Minority Post by Charlie on Nov 6th, 2004, 10:32pm Well, you're right about the news. It's not the same. The news exists now pretty much as entertainment and to sell drugs. It's always: "Tell or ask your Doctor." How I would have loved to see Dean run. What a mistake that was. Charlie |
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Title: Re: A Hated Minority Post by alleyoop on Nov 6th, 2004, 10:57pm on 11/06/04 at 22:01:53, Charlie wrote:
I expect it runs a little bit deeper than that. I'd love to hear the real story Charlie. [smiley=huh.gif] ......................alley |
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Title: Re: A Hated Minority Post by kimh on Nov 6th, 2004, 11:07pm Oh yeah what HE said (abover poster LOL pluscharlie posted FU's pst not mine = charlie is a doo doopft boiled egg ;;D Who luvs ya baybe? HUH> Whow?LOL :D |
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Title: Re: A Hated Minority Post by Charlie on Nov 6th, 2004, 11:24pm Yeah I realize that. I forgot how to define them. Quote:
I voted for Reagan in 1980 but by 1984, I got very tired of the so called moral majority and the Jimmy Swaggarts because they and the GOP hijacked each other. If there is a God, he isn't a Republican or a Democrat. These guys want a country in which I do not want to live. Censorship, faith trumping science....and you know the rest. Basically, if Pat Robertson is for it, I'm against it. Simple. He and his ilk have wrecked the party I was with ever since I could vote. The Democrats have some of these guys but they don't tell you that God will get you all the time. The libertarian wing of the party is all but gone. It's really that simple. Charlie |
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Title: Re: A Hated Minority Post by Tom K on Nov 7th, 2004, 12:34am on 11/06/04 at 23:24:48, Charlie wrote:
I'd vote libertarian, but I like knowing that my chicken is being inspected and isn't going to kill me. They seem to want to do away with all government agencies. FDA is still pretty much needed. I work in the food business and like knowing that there is someone inspecting the stuff I feed my customers. Don't go off on a tangent about them making minimum wage or anything. I know my supplier and he has an inspector in his facility, full time and he doesn't repack anything, just a distributor. With HCI and other gun control groups taking over the Dems, I don't bother to look at them. The only gun control I care about is...hitting what you are aiming at. T The FDA lovin' Chef |
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Title: Re: A Hated Minority Post by fubar on Nov 7th, 2004, 2:14am Quote:
Charlie, You're sounding more rational now, but this comment is hard to swallow. Last time I checked, I could tune in 6 different NPR stations in my area, and they spew their left wing agenda almost 24 hours a day whereas Rush and Hannity have a few hours a day. The media has always leaned left, and even more so this year. ABC and CBS both tried their level best to unfairly sway the election with their 'unbiased' reportage. The 'right' has some very loud voices, but they are far fewer then the number the left has making their talking points on a daily basis. |
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Title: Re: A Hated Minority Post by Kevin_M on Nov 7th, 2004, 8:32am on 11/06/04 at 20:24:38, Pinkfloyd wrote:
DOH! [smiley=ohjez.gif] Quote:
Equal rights, can't argue with that. Quote:
This, I believe was a big portion of the point of Floridian's comment, though. No disagreement here. thumbs up to James Madison. Kevin M |
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Title: Re: A Hated Minority Post by Hirvimaki on Nov 7th, 2004, 9:43am on 11/06/04 at 15:10:54, sandie99 wrote:
And in a previous thread you predicted 80%. Don't tell me Finland is actually slipping out of Socialism!?! :o What makes Finland a wonderful country is the culture, the people, the rich history - certainly NOT the curent political climate. There is a reason we no longer live in Finland. I'll take sauna, Karhu beer, Salmiakki and ruisleipa any day of the week and I celebrate Temppeliaukio, Sibelius and Paavo Nurmi, castles in Turku, and, hell, even Linda Lampenius and I honor and respect sisu and the fact that Finland is the only country to pay off its war-debt, but please, keep your Finnish politics. You can have your Social Democracy and 23% unemployment rate. If you really want John Kerry, I heard he is looking for a job. Hirvimaki-Isi PS: I really don't have anything substantive to add to this thread (read: I'm staying out of this one), but I dislike subtle America-bashing from over the ocean. |
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Title: Re: A Hated Minority Post by PittsburghJoe on Nov 7th, 2004, 11:34am on 11/07/04 at 09:43:18, Hirvimaki wrote:
Why would he look for a job? He's still a Senator from Massachusetts. Quote:
A big "same here" from me. Joe |
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Title: Re: A Hated Minority Post by karma on Nov 8th, 2004, 9:57am "A hated minority" ? Gimme a break. Turn off the damn T.V. so the talking heads can't pollute your brain. |
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Title: Re: A Hated Minority Post by Tom K on Nov 8th, 2004, 10:09am The Dems should all get on the same page...one minute, Edwards is the reason they lost. The next minute, the gay marriage vote is the reason they lost. Then, the red states are too stupid to vote Dem. What's next? Too funny....Snoozeweek says that Kerry offered McCaine the VP. When he said no, Kerry said he would throw in Sec Def and Foreign Affairs. McCaine told him, "Isn't that illegal according to the Constitution?" and hung up. Nice to see that this got reported after the election! Something like this should have been reported BEFORE the election!!! And you say there is no media bias.... T |
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Title: Re: A Hated Minority Post by Pegase on Nov 8th, 2004, 10:14am on 11/08/04 at 10:09:10, Tom K wrote:
Maybe the anwser is D) All of the above ;) I'm kidding ;) |
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Title: Re: A Hated Minority Post by floridian on Nov 8th, 2004, 10:33am on 11/08/04 at 10:09:10, Tom K wrote:
Thats a key difference between conservatives and liberals - liberals can recognize a complex, multifactor situation while conservatives want a simple answer. The only simple answer is that Kerry lost when he got a smaller share of the vote, but that explains nothing. Understanding the reasons that 58 million people voted for one candidate wont fit into one idea or one sentence. The freepers refer derisively to non-conservatives as the 'nuancy crowd' as they are less interested in understanding something than in labeling and pigeon-holeing it into the proper ideological response. Quote:
Grandpa, tell me bout the good ole days ... |
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Title: Re: A Hated Minority Post by Tom K on Nov 8th, 2004, 10:46am Then why don't all the Dems agree on the reasons? Personally, I don't really care. I think it is hysterical to see all of them scratching their collective heads. MTV is pissed because the Rock the Vote crowd drew more Republican votes than Dems. Think how you want about us Republicans...I don't care about that, either. You lost, get over it. See my post a few back, figure out what's wrong with your party and move forward. If you do, then it will be a different story. Until then, not even the media and their bais toward Republicans can help you. Now the media is saying that Bush needs to move to the Left. Last I saw, the Right won. If anyone needs to move it is the Left. They need to move more toward the center than the Right does. This whole thing is summed up by Daley pretty well..."At least people voted, Republicans and Democrats, Pro-tax cuts and Anti-tax cuts, Pro-life and Anti-life...." Go figure.... T |
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Title: Re: A Hated Minority Post by john_d on Nov 8th, 2004, 10:53am Here is one sentence.... We are stuck in Iraq and it is too dangerous to change into an unknown entity as President right now. I could be wrong. I also think the good old days sucked too. The only reason the good ol' days look good is because we have the comforting knowledge of the outcome. One thing I hold to be absolutely true, however. The pessimistic and optimistic prophets will turn out to be equally wrong. Hope you enjoyed this heapin helping of John D bullshit |
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Title: Re: A Hated Minority Post by Jeepgun on Nov 8th, 2004, 11:06am I wrote this to a friend of mine this morning, who happens to be a Democrat and a supporter of John Kerry. I haven't been watching TV at all, so what you see here is strictly Frank's own thoughts: 'm going to ramble for a bit, here. I don't know whether I'm right or wrong, and don't really care either way. This is just how I see things, right now. Bear in mind that I am neither a Democrat nor a Republican, (although I'm certain you think I'm a Republican) LOL I'm being as objective as possible: I think much ado is being made about the fundamentalist Christian aspect of this last election and not enough about how/why the Democratic party has marginalized themselves and lost touch with the vast majority of the United States. It wasn't only the presidential election: The Democratic party lost seats in the House of Representatives and the Senate, too. Bill Clinton presented himself as a conservative Democrat and won election and re-election quite handily. When John Kerry was put up as the Democratic candidate, I listened to his speeches, tried (TRIED) to find what he stood for, and truly looked at him objectively. I voted for Clinton's second term and voted for Gore in 2000. As the campaign went on, it seemed that John Kerry never expressed a solid opinion on anything, never said, "THIS is what I stand for!" and talked about repealing tax cuts, and gave a constant sound byte about having a plan, all the while, never unveiling that plan. His record on military affairs really hurt him too: Right now, our young men and women are spread out across the globe. They need the equipment, the funding, and the resources to fight this war, whatever anyone's personal feelings on the war are. Traditionally, the first thing the Democrats have done, in order to fund their social programs (which are very noble! Don't get me wrong) is to gut the defense budget. Right now, the military and the safety of our troops is at the fore of everyones' mind. John Kerry left everyone feeling uneasy over his position on Iraq, Afghanistan, and said the "T" word: That he would repeal the tax cuts. Toss into that, the issues of gay marriage, stem cell research, and abortion. (Personally, I don't care about gay marriage one way or the other, think that stem cell research may be a WONDERFUL thing, and believe that abortion should be available in a sterile medical environment and that it's the woman's choice, because whether it's legal or not, women have been having abortions since the beginning of time, whether it killed them or not) So there were a lot of things that hurt the Democrats in this election. It's so strange, because the Democratic party used to be the party that most represented the American middle class, and the Republicans were the ones that were out of touch. Interesting how it all turns around... So, this is my view of how/why John Kerry and so many other Democrats lost so badly in this election. I watched Kerry's concession speech and cried. During that speech, he was just human, with no pretense, no bluster... Just being genuine. I was sad for him, and I offer my condolences to you, as well. -Frank |
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Title: Re: A Hated Minority Post by vig on Nov 8th, 2004, 11:08am alright, this one's interesting... http://www.kdlltd.com/vig/2004electionIQs.jpg click below for full size: www.kdlltd.com/vig/2004electionIQ.jpg |
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Title: Re: A Hated Minority Post by floridian on Nov 8th, 2004, 11:11am on 11/08/04 at 10:46:00, Tom K wrote:
You just don't get it. A) the truth is complex. B) the Democrats are a motley crew. Will Rodgers said it best: "I am not a member of an organized political party... I am a Democrat. " Quote:
Reminds me of something President Bush said: Quote:
Yeah, were moving on - anticipating the reversal of Roe v. Wade, on the grounds that the Constitution says nothing about privacy between a woman and her doctor. More battles on putting religious pseudoscience like creationism in text books. Why rest after banning gay marriage, when being gay is a sin as wicked as owning slaves? And there are no hated minorities in America, except maybe the Portugese. Quote:
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Title: Re: A Hated Minority Post by Jeepgun on Nov 8th, 2004, 11:11am My IQ is 164, and I voted for Bush. (Leave it to me to fuck up the numbers) LOL! |
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Title: Re: A Hated Minority Post by Rock_Lobster on Nov 8th, 2004, 11:16am on 11/08/04 at 11:08:39, vig wrote:
Heh heh heh... interesting Vig! |
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Title: Re: A Hated Minority Post by floridian on Nov 8th, 2004, 11:28am on 11/08/04 at 11:11:35, Jeepgun wrote:
There's always a deviant outlier that induces residual error. Imagine what the numbers would look like without you! ;) |
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Title: Re: A Hated Minority Post by Jeepgun on Nov 8th, 2004, 11:31am LOL! [smiley=laugh.gif] |
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Title: Re: A Hated Minority Post by john_d on Nov 8th, 2004, 12:36pm The Economist published those stats in 2000 and then did a retraction a year later, reason stated was that the data was unreliable and unverifiable. Suprise, suprise. |
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Title: Re: A Hated Minority Post by Pegase on Nov 8th, 2004, 12:40pm That's indeed an interesting one... That's was something I heard before the election but I wasn't convince It was true... now... what can I say ::) |
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Title: Re: A Hated Minority Post by floridian on Nov 8th, 2004, 12:59pm on 11/08/04 at 12:36:40, john_d wrote:
You had to go and spoil things by saying it was a joke! :P I am not aware of any accurate, systematic measurement of 'intelligence' state by state. The ACT and SAT is no good, as the percent of students taking that varies from state to state, and states that encourage everyone to take it lower their average scores. The educational system in the south is generally crap - not a partisan comment, I am a parent who has moved a kid from between several schools in two southern states. In South Carolina, a favorite expression was "Thank God for Mississippi" as that great state could be counted on to protect South Carolina, Alabama, Georgia, etc from being dead last. In terms of high school graduation rates, the upper midwest and northeast do kick the other states in the posterior, but it isn't a clear red state/blue state issue. http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/cr_baeo_t2.htm |
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Title: Re: A Hated Minority Post by Gator on Nov 8th, 2004, 1:15pm Bethany, people may not agree with your political beliefs, but I doubt that they hate you. Some people are so confused about the outcome of the election. It's really not that difficult to understand. While the DNC and the RNC are both at extremes, the bulk of American citizens (regardless of party) have the same basic core values and concerns and desire for stability. Bush was stable, had a message consistent with his actions and did not stray from his central themes. Kerry did not demonstrate anything resembling consistency or stability. Kerry couldn't even maintain consistency from one campaign speech to the next. People just could not reconcile his previous statements and record of voting with his campaign speeches. People are wondering what happened to the Democratic Party which used to be the party of the common people and the Republican Party which was the party of the wealthy and affluent. Societies always degenerate to the left. The Democratic Party ideology has moved left to where the Socialist's were, "back in the good ole days." The Republican Party has moved left to where the Democrats used to be. American's are just not ready to make that big sidestep into Socialism, yet. And since Charlie has once again dragged fear into the conversation, I'm reposting the following: Quote:
Oh and my IQ is 138 (at least it was before all the drugs to fight CH) and I voted for Bush as well. There go the statistics again. Gator |
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Title: Re: A Hated Minority Post by Hirvimaki on Nov 8th, 2004, 1:28pm Despite a high IQ, I am handicapped by my Hispanic surname and therefore became confused in the booth and somehow voted for that Net Zero guy. Hirvimaki-Isi |
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Title: Re: A Hated Minority Post by Gator on Nov 8th, 2004, 1:44pm on 11/08/04 at 13:28:52, Hirvimaki wrote:
LMAO [smiley=laugh.gif] Only Bush and Kerry were on the ballot and Oklahoma doesn't allow write-ins so I couldn't vote for him. Gator |
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Title: Re: A Hated Minority Post by Tom K on Nov 8th, 2004, 1:44pm on 11/08/04 at 13:28:52, Hirvimaki wrote:
I thought it was the dog with the microphone that used to be from pets.com [smiley=laugh.gif] T |
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