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        New Message Board Archives >> 2004 Posts >> Doe's this look legal to you?
        
(Message started by: forgetfulnot on Sep 19^th, 2004, 6:15pm)

Title: Doe's this look legal to you?
Post by forgetfulnot on Sep 19^th, 2004, 6:15pm

http://www.sinusbuster.com/

Last I heard the FDA prohibits people selling supplements from making specific health claims. Send em a nice little e-mail reminding them of that.

Lee

Title: Re: Doe's this look legal to you?
Post by Lizzie2 on Sep 19^th, 2004, 6:24pm

Well hmmmm....wait till you hear this story.

I know they have done quite a few studies on the capsaicin and cluster and migraine headaches, but...I've never wanted to try it personally! People always try to push that Sinus Buster, which I think is just awful.

However, in my neuro appt on Thursday, he took me off of a med that is sometimes used to treat clusters and put me on a med that will only help the migraine that I have. Because of that, he wanted to do SOMETHING to help the clusters in some way. Mind you, this is a world reknowned headache doctor...not someone who knows nothing and is prescribing some assonine treatment, ya know?

He says to me...I had this cluster patient come in who told me all about an online community where they talk about snorting hot sauce and peppers. I looked at him for a second then said...you gotta be kidding me..someone SAID that??!?!!

Basically what he wants me to do is buy the lowest dose of capsaicin as possible (not necessarily made by sinus buster!) He said that I need to use it 2-3 times a day at first until it stops burning. He said the idea behind it is that it will definately burn at first, but then it will deaden the nerve ending. He said I then will need to use it either once a day or once every other day, and we'll see how that goes.

Personally I'm still really skeptical, but I told him that I would at least try it. I'm not buying it from Sinus Buster though!!!

Title: Re: Doe's this look legal to you?
Post by forgetfulnot on Sep 19^th, 2004, 6:39pm

That's all fine and dandy, doesn't change a federal law though. I tried the hot pepper treatment over five years ago. All I got was a runny nose and some discomfort.

Lee

on 09/19/04 at 18:24:47, Lizzie2 wrote:

Title: Re: Doe's this look legal to you?
Post by Lizzie2 on Sep 19^th, 2004, 7:05pm

Hmmm I can't remember the laws exactly regarding supplements. I know that I learned all about it in my nutrition class last spring, but I'm drawing a blank on all the updates. They do put claims on a lot of them such as glucosamine for joint health (I think those are the ones that go together?) One of them helps memory, but damned if I remember which one....maybe I need to take it. haha I think it is Gingko Biloba. And then St. John's Wort and depression. A lot of them tend to advertise their effectiveness for certain diseases or symptoms, so I can't remember the regulation exactly! It changes too often!

Title: Re: Doe's this look legal to you?
Post by Jayne on Sep 19^th, 2004, 7:52pm

hmmmm...I know what happened to me experimenting with the hot pepper treatment. :-[
Lucy says, stay away from it like the plague :-/

Title: Re: Doe's this look legal to you?
Post by BarbaraD on Sep 20^th, 2004, 6:49am

Go back to the archives and read Drummer's experience with the cream -- or maybe that wouldn't affect you the same way :) - you don't have a "Mr. Winkie" do you.

Sorry, that story is a classic and when I read about the pepper cream I always think of Drummer and his "bad" experience.

Hugs BD

Title: Re: Doe's this look legal to you?
Post by floridian on Sep 20^th, 2004, 8:49am

Not sure about the legality. That guy that runs sinusbuster is the most shameless promoter around - he irritates me more than Ali Sultaneh.

Capsaicin has a limited value - I tried one of the creams, applied a small amount with a cotton swab. It burns like the devil, causes tears and other liquids to flow. The theory is that it won't work the first time or the second time, but after repeated use, it may deplete the substance P from nerves. Civamide is a semi-synthetic version of capsaicin that is supposed to work along the same lines - but results in clinical trials were not spectacular.

Pepper in capsule form may be more effective - more likely to get to the nerve in question. Sometimes the capsule form would heat my stomach, but most of the time it didn't. Long term use of heavy doses may not be good for the kidneys, although lots of people douse their food with tabasco or other sauces with no apparent effects.

One regular here said that capsaicin cream worked for him was when accidentally got some on the eye.

Quote:

Arch Neurol. 2002 Jun;59(6):990-4.

Intranasal civamide for the treatment of episodic cluster headaches.

Saper JR, Klapper J, Mathew NT, Rapoport A, Phillips SB, Bernstein JE.

Michigan Headache Pain and Neurological Institute, 3120 Professional Dr, Ann Arbor, MI 48104, USA.

OBJECTIVE: To evaluate the safety and efficacy of intranasal civamide solution for preventive treatment during an episodic cluster headache period. SUBJECTS AND METHODS: This was a multicenter, double-blind, randomized, vehicle-controlled study with a 7-day treatment period and a 20-day posttreatment period performed at 14 headache/neurology centers in the United States. Twenty-eight subjects were randomized to receive civamide or its vehicle in a 2:1 ratio; 18 received civamide and 10 received the vehicle. Subjects received 100 microL of 0.025% civamide (25 microg) or 100 microL of the vehicle to each nostril via dropper once daily for 7 days. The total daily dose of civamide was 50 microg. MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES: The number of cluster headaches per week during the treatment and posttreatment periods, pain intensity, presence of associated symptoms, and the incidence of adverse events were assessed. RESULTS: Subjects in the civamide group had a significantly greater percent decrease in the number of headaches from baseline to posttreatment during days 1 through 7 (-55.5% vs -25.9%; P =.03) and a trend toward significance during days 8 through 14 (-66.9% vs -32.3%; P =.07) and days 15 through 20 (-70.6% vs -34.9%; P =.07), as well as a near-significant decrease during the entire posttreatment period (days 1 through 20 [P =.054]) compared with the vehicle group. There were larger decreases in the number of headaches per week during the posttreatment period in the civamide-treated group, with trends toward significance during posttreatment days 8 through 14 (-8.6 vs -3.6; P =.09) and days 15 through 20 (-8.9 vs -3.6; P =.07). There were no significant differences between groups in cluster headache pain intensity, number of severe headaches, or associated symptoms. The most common adverse events included nasal burning (14 of 18 civamide-treated subjects, 1 of 10 vehicle-treated subjects; P =.001) and lacrimation (9 of 18 civamide-treated subjects, 0 of 10 vehicle-treated subjects; P =.01). CONCLUSION: Intranasal civamide solution at a dose of 50 microg may be modestly effective in the preventive treatment of episodic cluster headache.

Title: Re: Doe's this look legal to you?
Post by floridian on Sep 20^th, 2004, 9:05am

Here's another one - a review of capsaicin that mentions CH among several conditions. I used the cream on an outbreak of psoriasis earlier this year. It definitely helped with the itching - not sure if it helped clear things up.

(I would be wary of any one claiming that capsaicin was effective in cluster pain if they weren't a cluster specialist and weren't personally acquainted with the problem. )

Quote:

Clin J Pain. 1998 Jun;14(2):97-106.

Review of the effectiveness of capsaicin for painful cutaneous disorders and neural dysfunction.

Hautkappe M, Roizen MF, Toledano A, Roth S, Jeffries JA, Ostermeier AM.

Department of Anesthesia and Critical Care, the University of Chicago, Illinois 60637, USA.

BACKGROUND: Topical capsaicin is known to be a safe and effective pain management adjunct for rheumatoid arthritis, osteoarthritis, neuralgias, and diabetic neuropathy. However, studies and case reports in the literature have indicated that other conditions may also benefit from capsaicin: painful or itching cutaneous disorders from operations, injuries, or tumors; neural dysfunction; or inflammation of the airways and urinary tract. METHODS: To determine the effectiveness of capsaicin for painful cutaneous disorders and neural dysfunction, the authors analyzed data from 33 reports (MEDLINE search of 1966-96) on the efficacy of capsaicin. Outcome measures consisted of the response rate and degree of pain relief. Results from placebo-controlled trials were pooled when possible; effect of treatment was estimated by the method of DerSimonian and Laird. RESULTS: Pain relief for postmastectomy syndrome and cluster headache was greater with capsaicin than with placebo; also, psoriasis and pruritus responded better to capsaicin. Uncontrolled studies and case reports have indicated that pain or dysfunction was less at the end of capsaicin therapy for neck pain, loin pain/hematuria syndrome, oral mucositis, rhinopathy, reflex sympathetic dystrophy syndrome, detrusor hyperreflexia, and cutaneous pain due to tumor of the skin. CONCLUSIONS: Capsaicin is effective for psoriasis, pruritus, and cluster headache; it is often helpful for the itching and pain of postmastectomy pain syndrome, oral mucositis, cutaneous allergy, loin pain/hematuria syndrome, neck pain, amputation stump pain, and skin tumor; and it may be beneficial for neural dysfunction (detrusor hyperreflexia, reflex sympathetic dystrophy, and rhinopathy). A universal problem for many of the studies analyzed was the absence of a "burning placebo" such as camphor.

Title: Re: Doe's this look legal to you?
Post by Lizzie2 on Sep 20^th, 2004, 9:07am

Yeah that's why I have really mixed feelings about it. My neuro is a very well known headache specialist, and he has worked with a lot of cluster sufferers. But at the same time, I've always felt that the capsaicin trials were hogwash. The fact that he explained that I have to go beyond the burning stage for it to work made sense, but I still don't know if I could do it. Haven't gone to buy it yet.

Title: Re: Doe's this look legal to you?
Post by Woobie on Sep 20^th, 2004, 9:24am

on 09/19/04 at 19:52:00, Jayne wrote:

hmmmm...I know what happened to me experimenting with the hot pepper treatment. :-[
Lucy says, stay away from it like the plague :-/

LMMFAO!!!!!!!!!!! I remember THAT story..........

LMAO!!

Love you, Jayne!

LOL [smiley=laugh.gif] [smiley=laugh.gif] [smiley=laugh.gif] [smiley=laugh.gif] [smiley=laugh.gif] [smiley=laugh.gif] [smiley=laugh.gif]

Title: Re: Doe's this look legal to you?
Post by Woobie on Sep 20^th, 2004, 9:25am

on 09/20/04 at 06:49:53, BarbaraD wrote:

OH OH OH
Is this another story similar to Jayne's?????

Got a link?? I like good stories.
[smiley=laugh.gif] [smiley=laugh.gif] [smiley=laugh.gif] [smiley=laugh.gif]

Title: Re: Doe's this look legal to you?
Post by Tiannia on Sep 20^th, 2004, 10:41am

on 09/20/04 at 06:49:53, BarbaraD wrote:

Did he use it on the wrong "Head"??????? [smiley=JAW_DROP.gif]

I know that i was using Ben Gay on my husbands back and it had seperated and ran down the crack of his a$$ and well you all can picture what happened then. Sad thing was I ended up laughing so hard I was craying.

-Tia

Title: Re: Doe's this look legal to you?
Post by Tiannia on Sep 20^th, 2004, 11:57am

OMG Not only will it stop your clusters but it will help you lose weight...

I can just see the info-mercial already....... :-/

-Tia

Title: Re: Doe's this look legal to you?
Post by Jonny on Sep 20^th, 2004, 3:42pm

That hack was pushing that shit six months ago on the Stern show, he didnt know WTF he was talking about when it came to HA's.

Title: Re: Doe's this look legal to you?
Post by marfanoidus on Sep 20^th, 2004, 4:35pm

Hey All,

Two things:
1) As has already been said, peppers effect pain relief by reducing the levels of substance P over time;
2) Some peppers have been approved by the FDA for pain relief because of (1) http://www.cancer.org/docroot/ETO/content/ETO_5_3X_Capsicum.asp?sitearea=ETO&viewmode=print&. Never thought I would live to see this happen.

And another thing:
Eating peppers which are hotter than you are accustomed to (meaning they set your ass on fire) will also cause a release of endorphins - this is why some people experience mild benefits eating them with HAs. BUT - don't expect much benefit with CH, it exists by its own rules.

good luck to you all,
walt

Title: Re: Doe's this look legal to you?
Post by forgetfulnot on Sep 20^th, 2004, 5:17pm

Quote:

Dear Mr. Moore,
We adhere to FDA and Fair marketing standards. We have
an incredible success rate and have numerous
physicians ordering our product for themselves and
their patients. We have a 100% money back guarantee
that we honor without question, and get e-mails from
both migraine and cluster headache sufferers that tell
us the sinus buster changed their lives for the better
and it is the first product to actually help them. If
you have specific issues with our company or website,
let us know what they are so that we can address them.
Thank you,
Bob Haines V.P.
SiCap Industries
(518) 861-5216

--- Lee Moore <moores5840@cox.net> wrote:

> Your claims about cluster headache are totally
> erroneous. Lawsuites are in the future if these
> rediculous claims are not removed. Be warned.

Title: Re: Doe's this look legal to you?
Post by Charlie on Sep 20^th, 2004, 8:22pm

http://www.netsync.net/users/charlies/gifs/snake oil sign.png

Odd that this one isn't on ebay; lots of useless drugs are sold there.

Charlie http://www.netsync.net/users/charlies/gifs/red mad.gif