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Title: OUCH members Post by Pinkfloyd on Jun 29th, 2004, 2:24am Dear O.U.C.H. members. Did you know the purpose of the organization was when you signed up? Did you sign up because you believed in it's purpose and it's goals, and wanted to help or did you sign up just so you could read what other people might be doing or saying? Although I believe in their stated goals, I'm not a member, so believe me, I'm not throwing stones. I'm just looking for people that might be interested in finding something that will relieve thousands of people and their familes of the pain and suffering involved with cluster headaches. I thought that OUCH members might be so interested, considering the stated Mission Statements and Vision Statements of your organization. In case you missed that page when you signed on, this is what those goals consist of: Mission Statement <snip> We encourage, support and participate in research to develop new and improved therapies and practices for treating cluster headaches. Vision Statement <snip> "We will strive to be a catalyst for finding a cure for cluster headaches by encouraging and participating in research into the condition. " Therefore, I would like to offer you all the opportunity to fulfill these statements of intent though the encouragement, support and participation in the research being conducted by Dr.'s John Halpern and Andrew Sewell of the Harvard Medical School, as coordinated by MAPS and Clusterbusters. Several months ago, Cat (one of your members) asked for names of people that were willing to complete questionaires for an survey being conducted by NECH. I know that she had a list of a couple hundred people. Now I know Harvard Medical School is not the New England Center for Headaches, but I have heard they do have an above average reputation for research and education. In case it's a geographical question, they are also in the New England area of the USA, so I would hope they might be worthy of your consideration. If you tried the psilocybin treatment, whether it was helpful or not, I would appreciate it if you'd take the time to complete the surveys found at: http://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/survey/mushrooms_survey_headaches.shtml and http://www.clusterbusters.com/phpsurveyor/index.php?sid=4 If you have been diagnosed with clusters, I would appreciate it if you would take the time to complete the survey located at: http://www.clusterbusters.com/phpsurveyor/index.php?sid=5 Not only would I appreciate it, afterall, who am I anyway, but so would all your friends that are working hard to find a treatment that will help not only you, but your friends and relatives that may now or in the future, suffer from cluster headaches. If you, or anyone you may know, are so inclined to offer financial support for the research being done into the use of psilocybin as an effective cluster treatment, and for any new treatments that this research may lead to, please go to the link below and make a donation to MAPS. Be sure to note in the comments section that your donation is to be used strictly for Cluster Headache Research. http://www.maps.org/support.html Thank's to all those that have already participated in some way and thank you in advance to all those that follow. PF www.clusterbusters.com "Destiny is not a matter of chance, it is a matter of choice; it is not a thing to be waited for, it is a thing to be achieved." William Jennings Bryant |
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Title: Re: OUCH members Post by don on Jun 29th, 2004, 5:41am Be sure to fill in ALL mandatory boxes with SOMETHING be it an (N/A) or (0). |
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Title: Re: OUCH members Post by alleyoop49 on Jun 29th, 2004, 7:20am on 06/29/04 at 02:24:08, Pinkfloyd wrote:
GOT R DUN! |
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Title: Re: OUCH members Post by Kevin_M on Jun 29th, 2004, 7:59am on 06/29/04 at 02:24:08, Pinkfloyd wrote:
The cirriculum at Harvard Medical School has been recently overhauled to create what is termed a "new pathway". It emphasizes the patient's experience of illness, in many words, pain is in there interest now, not just the biology of the disease. This has brought their interests in to synch with ours in the past few years (finally). Dr. Bruce Cohen, a professor there is the director of it's McLean Hospital, which will be involved and is one of the preeminent institutions for psychiatric care and research in the U. S. I wouldn't worry about credentials, if you're interested, definitely do it. Kevin M |
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Title: Re: OUCH members Post by Bob P on Jun 29th, 2004, 10:17am As I read this post and Roxie's post on the Zomig nasal trial, the thought hits me; these are all trials of 'treatments'. While better treatments are a good thing, I can't help but look farther and think about a "cure" for clusters. It strikes me that the real cure starts in the research into the cause of clusters. The work that Goadsby, Sheftel and the Italian doctors are doing. Only when a true cause is identified can a cure be found. I've just this morning pointed this out on the OUCH business board. I would like to suggest that everyone join OUCH and encourage the organization to increase contacts with these cause/cure researchers. Offer ourselves and our organization to their research for this is where the real cure will be found. I don't think it will be found in looking at if and how long it takes Zomig to stop a cluster or what action shrooms have on the nerves that block clusters. Not trying to take anything away from these treatment studies but I really think our time, efforts and funding would ultimately be better spent on the cure research instead of treatment research. |
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Title: Re: OUCH members Post by Pinkfloyd on Jun 29th, 2004, 12:54pm on 06/29/04 at 10:17:17, Bob P wrote:
Not trying to take anything away from these studies, just point people away from them??? Wouldn't want to do anything to eat away at Glaxo's profits? Does OUCH have a quota on the number of research studies they can support? Maybe you aren't aware of all the treatment research that Goadsby has, and is, involved in? Maybe he understands that one way to get to a cure is to work backwards from which treatments have a positive effect on clusters, not just to dull the pain, to determine what is going on physiologically to stop the actions involved? Before you suggest changing the name to o.CURE.c.h. I think you first need to work on the o.UNDERSTANDING.c.h. We're standing at one end of a rainbow. There is nothing wrong with looking around for a map for a direct route to the pot of gold, I suggest we also follow the rainbow. You may find the map tomorrow. OTOH, you may never find the map. Although taking the rainbow route may be a lengthy journey, at least we will pick up things along the way to make the journey less painful plus we know we are heading in the right direct with each step. See you on the other side, PF |
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Title: Re: OUCH members Post by Bob P on Jun 29th, 2004, 1:06pm I see you're just as tempermental as usual floyd. God forbid someone suggest something that dulls the almighty shroom! I'm expressing my thoughts on where OUCH, the world's only legitimate cluster organization, should expend it's efforts. Researching a cure instead of treatments (and I single out no treatment study in particular). As I said above, new treatments that work faster and better with fewer side effects are a good thing. I'm also not steering people away from those studies. I encourage everyone to go fill out your questionaires. Info is a good thing. But keep your eye on the target. Maybe all roads don't lead to it. |
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Title: Re: OUCH members Post by BlueMeanie on Jun 29th, 2004, 1:21pm Although I've never tried the shroom treatment. I've read posts from people who have. With the success rate at which it seams to stop a cycle, (not just stop a CH attack), I don't see why OUCH would not pursue both projects of prevention and cure. Yes I would love to not have to see any family member or anybody have to deal with getting Clusters. I would also love to give those same people a pill of shrooms to end their cycle much more than giving them a shot of Trex just to end a CH. Why not pursue both ends of the rainbow. It's a long way to the other side from one end. Maybe we'd end up on top with at least some gold in our pot. |
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Title: Re: OUCH members Post by vig on Jun 29th, 2004, 1:41pm BobP said: "Not trying to take anything away from these treatment studies but I really think our time, efforts and funding would ultimately be better spent on the cure research instead of treatment research. " Understanding why Psilocybin/Psilocin's action in stopping this pain so FULLY compared to the other medicines IS one legitimate avenue to finding a cure.... AND it provides immediate, POWERFUL relief while the hunt for the cure is on... "But keep your eye on the target. Maybe all roads don't lead to it." (there's the veiled dismissal, and has no better answer) |
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Title: Re: OUCH members Post by Pinkfloyd on Jun 29th, 2004, 1:46pm Hey, I'm just expressing my thoughts on your thoughts. on 06/29/04 at 13:06:22, Bob P wrote:
Tempermental? LOL. This discussion is not just about shrooms. It's about research. Treatment vs. Cure You answered question one with a yes. You didn't really address the other points. You probably forgot. I'll look for updates. While you're at it maybe you could choose one or two of the following to answer. Will OUCH members be too tired after the convention to support more than one research project? Is OUCH (or you personally) in a position to decide which research project will lead to the cure the quickest? If so I'd like to see the supporting documents. I promise to share them with all the other researchers that are wasting their time looking in other corners. I'm sure they'd like to get on the right bandwagon. Could you point me to that specific research study that is dealing only with finding a cure and is wasting no time on treatment improvements? I'd like to offer my support and make a donation. on 06/29/04, Bob P wrote:
Guess I read your post incorrectly then, I'm sorry. Let me look again... on 06/29/04, Bob P wrote:
Ok, well I'm off to get some reading glasses...still looks the same, damn it. Probably from all that prednisone I ate growing up. PF |
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Title: Re: OUCH members Post by Bob P on Jun 29th, 2004, 2:10pm I can't answer any of your OUCH questions Floyd since I'm not an OUCH officer nor a BoD member nor the webmaster any longer. I'm just an OUCH member like a few thousand other clusterheads. I'm also not going to the convention so I can't speak for what happens there. Quote:
Quote:
Again I see an awful lot of assumpions being made. I keep hearing an 80-90% success rate. Those aren't real numbers. Maybe it's 80-90% of those that respond to the surveys but you don't really know the succes rate until you administer it to a given number of people and document the success rate in a monitored setting. Maybe 80% of the people it doesn't work for never come back to tell busters that it didn't work. A lot of conjecture involved in your numbers. Here is another option that I just received in my e-mail 15 minutes ago: "As many of you know, cluster headache is a very painful condition. However, finding treatment for cluster headache can be difficult due to the rarity of the disorder. There are often clinical trials for cluster headache at the Jefferson Headache Center in Philadelphia, PA. If you are interested in participating in cluster headache research, please call 215-955-2037" I have no idea what they are studying but if you're in that neighborhood, give them a call. It also wouldn't surprise me at all, once your study is ready to roll, that OUCH would encourage it members to participate in it just as they have the Zomig trial. |
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Title: Re: OUCH members Post by vig on Jun 29th, 2004, 9:59pm on 06/29/04 at 14:10:28, Bob P wrote:
Prednisone stops the pain, with HORRENDOUS side effects. But you already knew that. It seems to work for MOST, not just some. I take it that it didn't work for you. And I KNOW it worked on me, better than any of the other substances I've tried. From the top: "but you don't really know the succes rate until you administer it to a given number of people and document the success rate in a monitored setting. " He continues: "Not trying to take anything away from these treatment studies but I really think our time, efforts and funding would ultimately be better spent on the cure research instead of treatment research. " So, you want a study done, but don't want to waste any time or effort on it? |
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Title: Re: OUCH members Post by forgetfulnot on Jun 29th, 2004, 10:42pm on 06/29/04 at 10:17:17, Bob P wrote:
Bob, it's called a shotgun. OK Lee |
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Title: Re: OUCH members Post by Bob P on Jun 29th, 2004, 10:58pm You can twist my words any way you please. You can assign meaning to them that I obviously didn't intend. None of this really amazes me anymore. You guys are a constant source of amuzement. Thank you for that. It really doesn't seem to me that it should cost $50,000 plus to give shrooms to a couple dozen sufferers in a clinical setting and determine how effective it really is. Once the effectiveness is determined the next step is to determine why it is effective and if that reason points to a cause of clusters. Ho hum. That was a though one. |
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Title: Re: OUCH members Post by vig on Jun 29th, 2004, 11:32pm What did you mean then? |
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Title: Re: OUCH members Post by forgetfulnot on Jun 30th, 2004, 12:04am He may be hopped up on zone, who knows. Lee |
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Title: Re: OUCH members Post by tommyD on Jun 30th, 2004, 7:06am You have a point here, BobP. Quote:
The 80 - 90% success result is unscientific and anecdotal. It's not based on the surveys Pink mentioned (yet), but on reports posted here and elsewhere by people who have tried it. We encouraged people to post reports whatever the results, but it is possible unsuccessful reports were never reported. But here at CH.com, I see little reluctance to post negative treatment reports on anything. It's also possible many positive reports were never reported. This is, after all, an illegal substance in most places. But positive or negative, the anecdotal reports we counted were compiled, word for word in most cases (names changed to protect the innocent), and are now being reviwed by Drs. Halpern and Sewell and will help provide a starting point for the very trials you say are needed. Yes, we should look for a cure, but research into treatment may help find that cure. The indole-ring hallucingen treatment may provide a clue by addressing the role of dimethyl triptamine (DMT - similar to LSD and produced naturally in the brain). Quote:
You're right again, BobP! It actually will cost $300,000 to $500,000 to conduct a small clinical trial. A clinical trial of ANY treatment will cost that much if not more. The more subjects participate, the more it will cost, and the more generalizable the results. It's about as much as it would cost to keep those couple dozen sufferers in Imitrex for a couple years.... How much is being pain-free worth to us? But before the hallucinogen connection can be investigated for clues to a cure, it must be shown scientifically it works as a treatment, just as the anecdotal reports can provide a startng point for the clinical trials. A dual track is needed. Both treatment and cause must be pursued. We non-scientist Clusterheads can help investigate treatment by participating in surveys and clinical trials. But very few of us know enough neurology to help with finding cause, except perhaps financially. Basic research isn't cheap, either. Hey, the ClusterBusters could easily say, "Damn, raising half a mil is just too difficult. Let's just tell people to try it. proof or not. So what if only a handful of clusterheads find relief instead of thousands. WE got OURS." Quote:
No, thank YOU! I like to make people laugh. By the way, shrooms can make you giggle. -tommyD |
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Title: Re: OUCH members Post by Bob P on Jun 30th, 2004, 7:32am Thanks for the voice of reason Tommy. You're a stand out in the crowd. Good luck to you. Quote:
I'll try to clarify what I'm saying. Using the OUCH Mission/Vision statements as justification, floyd calls on the OUCH members to support the shroom study by filling out the surveys and giving money if they want. That's fine. It is what OUCH's mission is. To identfy and encourage support of research into new and better treatments for clusters. OUCH's vision statement goes a step farther and speaks of a cure, not a treatment. My post was to remind the OUCH members that treatment and cure are two different things. One may lead to the other but still two different things. I don't want the OUCH members to get tunnel vision and start thinking that treatment studies fulfill the vision statement's quest for a cure. There is other research going on that is looking not at how to treat a cluster to stop the pain but what is causing the pain in the first place. Goadsby and his hypothalamus research. Many others researching hormone levels, neurotranmitters, etc. In a sentance, I am reminding the OUCH members to not get too focused on one single study but to keep an eye on the end of that rainbow, as floyd calls it, which is the cause of clusters which will lead to the cure. |
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Title: Re: OUCH members Post by maria9 on Jul 1st, 2004, 11:05pm Hi Bob P, Remember back to the days when you were Pres of OUCH and asking us as a homework assignment to thank those researchers that had included CH'ers in their research? Remember you soliciting other ch'ers to send TY's to the researchers. Certainly I can understand how CH only affects 1% of the population and your reservations about who you could ultimately impact. Remember about trying to make an impact on those that were seriously concerned about cluster headaches? Just curious here, BobP do you really think you will find the elusive cure here, or will you just go for the abortive/preventative? Oh, and BTW how is your golf game? Marsha ;;D |
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Title: Re: OUCH members Post by Bob P on Jul 2nd, 2004, 10:30am Hi Marsha. I'm not quite sure I understand what you are asking. I do recall asking everyone to contact the doctors who issued research papers and thank them. I felt it was a good way to encourage further research and also to get OUCH's name in front of them. Hoping they would use us in further research. I recall you contacting a doctor from South America and him contacting OUCH and expressing an interest in the surveys on the site. Not knowing what all of the test protocol will be for the Harvard study, I can't say if it will be a study of the effectivness of the treatment, the mechanism by shich it does or doesn't work or if this will point to a cause for clusters. Am I going to put all of my hopes on that one study, no. I'll continue to read the medical sites and watch for promising research and then do what I can to help that research. It could be many different studies going on at once. What will I do personally to treat my next cluster? Shrooms, cafergot & O2, Elavil in that order. My golf game sucks. Played 2 weeks ago for the first time in about a year. 45 on the front, 55 on the back. I hate it when I stop swinging at the ball and start trying to steer it! |
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Title: Re: OUCH members Post by maria9 on Jul 2nd, 2004, 12:39pm Thanks for your reply BobP, Sorry I wasn't very clear in my last post. While I can see your point of not wanting "to put all of your eggs in one basket" with regards to treatment modalities for cluster headaches, I was confused by your response that OUCH should be supporting studies that are actively seeking a cure for cluster headaches rather than those looking at potential treatment, i.e. Zomig, shrooms. Since cluster headaches are so poorly understood and so little research has been done, I would think you would be supportive and welcoming of any research into cluster headaches, whether you agreed with it or not. Marsha ;;D |
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Title: Re: OUCH members Post by Bob P on Jul 2nd, 2004, 2:05pm I am supportive of the Harvard study. I am not supportive of the attitude I percieve from some of the busters that if you don't give them everything they want in the name of this study, then you're an idiot and deserve to rot in your prescription medications and to suffer all the pain of the clusters. The Zomig study will only determine if Zomig nasal spray works on clusters and how well. This is good because it will give another medication that is specifically identified for clusters. This may help in getting insurance to cover more of it. It won't do anything to help find a cause or cure for clusters. Again, I don't know what is involved in the Harvard study. Will it just determine if shrooms work to stop clusters like the Zomig study? Will it go farther and determine how it stops clusters? Will that "how" point to what really causes clusters or will it say that it blocks the action of some neurotransmitter which hasn't really led to much cause/cure progess (at least not in the case of the triptans)? Just a lot of stuff I don't know about this study yet. Sometimes I just want to bust into one of the major world neuro/headache symposiums and scream at the top of my lungs, "Here I am, I have clusters, I'm willing to do anything you want me to in order to FIX THE DAMN THINGS!" |
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Title: Re: OUCH members Post by maria9 on Jul 2nd, 2004, 9:16pm Bob P, Thanks for your clarification regarding supporting the on-going studies about cluster headaches. I can't answer you about if the study will be looking at which neuroreceptors are particularly involved in cluster headaches. But my hope is the researchers at Harvard with help from the researchers at MAPS will be looking into this with some detail and will be able to provide us with some answers or at least some direction where we need to go in the future. Maybe Pinkfloyd has some more information on this topic. I am sorry that you feel so negatively about clusterbusters, my opinion, I know in my heart that you both want the best (or find a cure ) for all of us. Having just gone through a particularly ugly cycle, I feel for all of you going through this now, I just hope that a cure is on the horizon and that possibly it could start with the research at Harvard. The cup is half full, Marsha |
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Title: Re: OUCH members Post by Bob P on Jul 3rd, 2004, 9:46am One more small clarification. I don't feel negatively about the busters or the shrooms as a whole. Just the attitude I've gotten from a few of the busters. |
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Title: Re: OUCH members Post by Mac_Muz on Jul 3rd, 2004, 10:00am Pinkfloyd, I did all that several months back.... You did reply to me in e-mail saying you had been away, and would contact me in a time when you had time.. I am at this time either waiting or forgotten??? I am new to CH's, and at that time had just begun with all there is to know, which in my case is still on going with the learning curve... I had not and still have not tried many things which may or not work, but am willing to go to Boston, and be used as a test.... I am in NH USA.. You replied to crowmckay@ xxxxxxxxx if that rings a bell. I prefer to not have that addey listed on line.. If you wish reply to mac_muz15@hotmail.com as that is me also.. Perhaps I should re do the survey? But if I do then I would be doing that 2 times and that in it self might cause confusions...??? I was in a Ch pattern at that time, and since it was my forst I didn't know if I was chronic.... I am not , and so at this time I am as free as a bird... My best guess is Summer /Fall might be my next bout, and if not Winter/Spring.... Or maybe in my own way I drove off the demon... probably not.... If you reply here, and or e-mail me I will try to do what ever is asked... Mac |
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Title: Re: OUCH members Post by Pinkfloyd on Jul 3rd, 2004, 5:10pm on 07/03/04 at 10:00:47, Mac_Muz wrote:
Hello Mac and thank you. I can assure you that you are not and will not be forgotten. You're just in waiting mode like all of us. I still have all your information and letters on file, including the last one of May 26th. I know you've completed everything we've asked and you are on my email notification list for updates, when we need you. Did the cycle end as you'd hoped? I know you were thinking/hoping it was on the downward side of the cycle. It's still too early to determine when we can begin signing people up for the trial. Also it is still to be determined how the timing will go as far as whom and when. I imagine this will take place over an extended period of time as people enter their cycles, unless we have enough chronics and episodics signed up to all be admitted at once, and in cycle. That will all be determined as we design the protocol. We will keep you posted, here and in email. thanks for your support, PF |
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Title: Re: OUCH members Post by Pinkfloyd on Jul 3rd, 2004, 5:41pm on 07/02/04 at 14:05:46, Bob P wrote:
on Jun 29th, 2004, 9:17am, Bob P wrote:Not trying to take anything away from these treatment studies but I really think our time, efforts and funding would ultimately be better spent on the cure research instead of treatment research. on 07/02/04 at 14:05:46, Bob P wrote:
I'm sorry you have this perception. I'm not sure where it came from but if thats your perception, its your perception. If anyone else has that perception, again, I'm sorry as it isn't my or our feeling at all. As a matter of fact, quite honestly, the only person on this message board that I'm beginning to think is an idiot, actually did try shrooms. Therefore, trying or not trying this treatment has nothing to do with how I assess an idiot factor. Any examples of anyone being any more assertive of using psilocybin than many people here are about using 02? When someone posts here about "what should I try" there are 10 times more posts telling people they should mix verapamil and lithium, or prednisone, or topamax .....than people posting to try shrooms. I will admit this. I'm sure that I have shown some frustration when people either consider, or go through surgical procedures if they've looked at and decided against trying psilocybin first. I certainly don't consider any of them idiots for doing so. Actually I feel that I've not done enough to explain the treatment and it's safety. So, the frustration I feel is about my shortcomings and not anyone elses. What exactly is "everything we've asked for in the name of the study" that you feel is too much? on 07/02/04 at 14:05:46, Bob P wrote:
No one knows what the results of this study will tell us. No one knows where it will lead the next study or what information it will give to other researchers for followup studies. Will we have the money to do MRI's and PET's on 12 people, plus 1 day, 5 day or 10 day hospital stays? The longer they can be followed up IN a hospital setting, the more tests that can be done. We don't have an insurance company covering costs so how much do you think a 5 day hospital stay with scans and lab tests would run, per person? Can we afford 12 people or can we afford 24 people? Each step gets us closer. Even if all the study does is eliminate something as a possible "cure", it narrows the field. Maybe they'll find out it IS a cure. That it opens up new pathways for the neurotransmitters to get the job done properly. Maybe it will reteach the hypothalamus to send the signals it needs to send without triggering clusters. Sorry but I can't guarantee this is a cure. I'm just not going to sit around waiting for someone to guarantee me that "this" study will produce a cure in one step, before I get involved. When Goadsby started doing PET scans of the hypothalamus he didn't just guess that he should do that. He based his theories and work on PREVIOUS studies and trials that pointed him in that direction. We didn't just go from bloodletting and putting leaches on our foreheads to doing a PET scan. on 07/02/04 at 14:05:46, Bob P wrote:
I can picture you now, telling Ben Franklin to put down that damn kite and just turn on my lights!! Is electricity/lights a cure for darkness or just a treatment? Bulb burns out or you flip off the switch, it's dark again!!! I understand the urgeny Bob, as well as you do. I just don't have a cure to offer you yet. If you think I'm an ass, fine, nothing I can do about it. I doubt I can change your mind. I would hope that your support of this study would not be based upon personal feelings. PF |
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Title: Re: OUCH members Post by John_D on Jul 3rd, 2004, 5:50pm the diff between o2 and shrooms is that one of them is a friggen felony to possess. Your causes big weakness is the same as the medicinal pot community, based on the threads I read here, you have a bunch of people who support BOTH medicinal use and recreational use. If you can't segregate yourself from the recreational use, you will have a hard time selling it. Good luck though. |
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Title: Re: OUCH members Post by Mac_Muz on Jul 3rd, 2004, 6:06pm Pinkfloyd, Yes I have been free from a real Ch since just before Memorial Day... I had shadows after that testing with beer's... One a week untill recently.. A single beer would bring on a shadow, but not the real thing. So now I am useless to you for the time being... I will say this on line I guess... Not to proud of it, but in my younger days I was a addict on drugs like heroine, and more... Today is different, and I don't take asprin if it can be helped. So if this testing involves things not legal, and or what ever I am not in it for a cheap high. What I did to myself back then is history which I can't take back. The reason maybe this saying so is important is that I might be willing to try a few things some others might not be so very willing to try... The Imitrex pen was a no brainer once I came here and saw how to take the 2 mg's with that Q Tip trick.. For me the 6 mg's was way to much... I weigh about 145 lbs.. I have no spleen either if that makes any dfifference to testings... pretty much I hold nothing back, and will tell it like I see it with out adding in fustikated bs..... Jonny is lots like me.... I am newer here and just trying to stay in touch with here and those here.. If I have a friend here it is Jonny... If not I like his flag anyway ;;D. Ummm being a historical re-enactor of the times of 1750 to 1840 waiting is a common thing to do..... If I want some iten I can't make i wait a long time.... If someone wants something I make they also wait a long time depending on what that item is... natural products in bark say have to be harvested at a certain time. What that all means is I can wait with the best of them, and have not to much problem being used if it helps a hogs head full of folks. Thats a large barrel and not name calling. I have no history of Ch and so after most of my first bout thinking it was a infection from hell it self I was "Discovered" . That gave me a name and the name was a weapon.. and so.... I found myself here... Thank you Sir for the reply.... Your most Obt and Humble servt'. Mac |
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Title: Re: OUCH members Post by Pinkfloyd on Jul 3rd, 2004, 6:20pm on 07/03/04 at 17:50:32, John_D wrote:
Clusterbusters does not and will not ever get entrenched into a debate over making psilocybin legal for anything other than through prescriptions, for medical purposes. We have discussed this in detail and I understand the pitfalls, as we all do. There are many drugs that are legal as long as you have a valid prescription, that are used recreationally by others. I'm also sure that the FDA and DEA will eventually express the fear that people will be able to do with a "clusterbuster" pill, what they do now with oxycontin. I have the same fear. This has been discussed with both Dr. Halpern and MAPS. Hopefully we will someday be at that point and something can be worked out. Maybe go into a clinic for a shot? Who knows. First we have to get there. I understand your point and it is a difficult situation. All we can do is speak the truth as best as we know it and report both the good and the bad, its dangers and it's benefits. One reason we selected Dr. Halpern is his long record of published reports and studies on both the benefits AND the risks of many different drugs. If anyone wants to do any searches on his work, you'd find that he has been on both sides of the issues and is well respected by government agencies for his work. He probably has more anti-drug conclusions than what would be considered pro-drug. He is also a member of drug abuse councils and works with government agencies to fight drug abuse. MAPS is also well respected on these issues and is the organization that people go to for facts, on both sides of these issues. (the Peter Jennings special was an example) Sometimes it's difficult for people to temper their enthusiasm for the treatment and I know it sometimes comes out too ...........uummmmmmmm....enthusiastic. Thanks for the comments, as they are important. PF |
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Title: Re: OUCH members Post by Pinkfloyd on Jul 3rd, 2004, 6:25pm on 07/03/04 at 18:06:48, Mac_Muz wrote:
Glad to hear you're pain free Mac. Thats what we all like to hear. Stay in touch and be assured that you have more than one friend here, although, from what I read and hear, you can't find a better friend than jonny. good luck.... PF (and no jonny, I wasn't being sarcastic) |
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Title: Re: OUCH members Post by John_D on Jul 3rd, 2004, 6:32pm That was a fantastic response, thank you. I will see your program in a little more positive light here out. John D |
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Title: Re: OUCH members Post by Mac_Muz on Jul 3rd, 2004, 8:34pm John_D, A part of what I said which is true.... Could disqualify me from testings. If that should be the case so be it, and in my primitive way this is why I said so.. I agree that this testing and or meds should not be just a toy to those that would abuse it.... I have no interest in recreational drugs, and only drink beer at meals on occasions. I can't recall the last time i was 3 sheets to the wind from beers even.. 14 years or better I guess... I have not met anyone here face to face yet, but I expect to one day... I am open to inviting folks here often which are new to me. I have met face to face many people from being on line, but with motor bikes and air planes being that key. I suppose the the first CHer I meet will be both happy and sad as a event to me. I like to share, but this sharing seems a poor way to go about it to me.. Meaning that suffering these CH's is just not right for anyone. I was planning test with things I can find in my primitive ways dealing with plants, not that I am any wizard in plants, but trying can only kill me .....right? The drugs that do work are made from something, but just what all that is evades me. Doctors or no doctors I want a lesser than Imitrex that I can carry in my pocket, as my O2 is for welding and that tank is far to large to carry daily. It seems that if doctors, chemists and other find a thing that will be what I end up learning about here... But none the less I wish to try with or with out help, and be a test at some point if need be..... .......................... off topic Jonny told me in my profile there is a way to see the last 10 posts... I can find no such tool.... I made a post and of 32 looks only one reply which said the same thing... maybe there is a glitch in my profile? The topic was title Dunce as in I can't see what tool to use... If anyone is willing to point this out and or prove my profile is not correct I would be glad to know... After I find out i will edit this portion out to stay more or less on topic.... Mac |
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Title: Re: OUCH members Post by John_D on Jul 3rd, 2004, 8:48pm ok thanks. When you click on someones name you see their profile, at the very bottom of the profile web page is that button to see the last 10 messages posted. I will tell you that I have never been able to see them, it never happens when I press it. John D. |
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Title: Re: OUCH members Post by Bob P on Jul 4th, 2004, 8:55am Quote:
Quote:
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Title: Re: OUCH members Post by Mac_Muz on Jul 4th, 2004, 11:16am John D, Yes I found the tool, but it didn't load for me either... So I am still as lost as always.. Nuthin new there ...... Mac In a day or 2 I will remove this OT stuff.. Mac |
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Title: Re: OUCH members Post by jonny on Jul 4th, 2004, 11:40am 10/50/All........Last posts function does not work DJ is working to fix it. .................................jonny |
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Title: Re: OUCH members Post by John_D on Jul 4th, 2004, 12:29pm on 07/04/04 at 11:16:29, Mac_Muz wrote:
do you mean deleting posts? please don't, occasional ot is fine but it just ruins a thread when posts are removed, thanks |
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Title: Re: OUCH members Post by Pinkfloyd on Jul 25th, 2004, 1:08am I'm sorry, I was walking around with these darn sunglasses on and happened to BUMP into this thread. anyone have a bandaid? PF |
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Title: Re: OUCH members Post by alleyoop on Jul 25th, 2004, 10:07pm No bandaid Pink, but I'll give a little NUDGE myself! .........................................................alley |
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