|
||||
|
Title: Re: OD'ed on PC Post by tgz23 on May 25th, 2004, 9:51pm seen this before and I agree I personally am sick of political correctness |
||||
|
Title: Re: OD'ed on PC Post by floridian on May 25th, 2004, 11:13pm Quote:
Um, the clearly documented original motto of the United States is E Pluribus Unum ... Sounds an acknowledgement of diversity to me - and its not even in English! In God We Trust was added to coinage in 1864 - a political crisis (the war between the states) triggered a crisis in faith, and the Union wanted everyone to know that God was on their side. Making "The Replacement Motto" (In God We Trust) official goes all the way back to 1956, not to the founding of the nation. The switcheroo was pulled when America was suffering from the mass psychosis of McCarthyism. In God We trust did not make its way on to all paper money until 1966. The word God does not appear in the United States Constitution. Were the founding fathers such goofs that they just forgot?? No, the document is secular. Most of the men who drafted the Constitution had religious beliefs, but the great charter was intentionally silent and neutral on matters of doctrine and private conscience. As an immediate afterthought, the secular nature of the government was reinforced by ammending the Constitution to keep government out of the religion business. Political correctness sucks. So does fundamental correctness and factual incorectness. I would highly encourage the simpletons who know so little about the history of the US to invest a little time and read about what really happened. Four of our 43 presidents were Unitarian Universalist - an organization with no set doctrine, and not really Christian. Three other presidents (including Thomas Jefferson) were not affiliated with any organized religion, although they did have religious beliefs (but were not necessarily Christian). There is no religion test for US citizenship. For those applying for citizenship, there is a test on the US Constitution and political system. And the newcomers know far more about this country's Constitution and history than the yayhoos that write tripe like that published in the Tampa paper. Too many Americans feel like they are entitled to the world on a platter because they were born. Passing a US citizenship test should be required for anyone who claims the priveleges that go with it - people who don't know what the feck they are talking about shouldn't have a say. |
||||
|
Title: Re: OD'ed on PC Post by Gator on May 26th, 2004, 3:19am Right on KOP! Regardless of any minor or major problems with the wording or facts in the published piece, I fully and wholeheartedly agree with the spirit and intent of it. I, for one (and obviously one of many), am proud to be an American and everything that this country stands for. I am tired of these thin skinned apologists who blame rich, dead, white, American men for all the world's problems. I am tired of all the so-called Americans that let them. If you truly are unhappy here, if you really don't like the country, the culture, the language, the freedoms, the responsibilities then please leave and take as many of your anti-American friends and family members as you can possibly carry with you. Gator |
||||
|
Title: Re: OD'ed on PC Post by BobG on May 26th, 2004, 4:40am I've never pretended to be politically correct. I'll say what I have to say and if I offend someone tough shit. If you don't like what I have to say then just walk away. Or, I'm not hard to find. Come on over and we'll discuss it. About the immigrants to America.....I have nothing against anyone coming here with the dreams of a better life. But once they're here it is their responsibility to adapt to American ways. Or go back home. If you came here legally then you have a right to buy the house next to mine. But, you do not have the right to fuck up the neighborhood and drag down my property values. It is your right to hold a job. But, it is not your right to work for under-the-table cash, pay no income taxes on it and then send it out of this country. And ....... In God We Trust used in federal documents is a Protestant thing, not Christian. But nowhere does it say that God is Protestant, Jewish, Hindu, Christian, Muslim or of any religion. It simply means to trust in the God of your choice. And if anyone doesn't like what I have to say they have the right to click that little X in the upper right corner of their screen. |
||||
|
Title: Re: OD'ed on PC Post by Woobie on May 26th, 2004, 5:43am on 05/26/04 at 04:40:45, BobG wrote:
Right on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and that's all I have to say about that........... tina |
||||
|
Title: Re: OD'ed on PC Post by aprilbee on May 26th, 2004, 9:28am I'm with KOP, et al.... I pledge Allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands. ONE nation UNDER GOD, Indivisible with liberty and justice for ALL. :) I'm PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN!!! :) |
||||
|
Title: Re: OD'ed on PC Post by Gena on May 26th, 2004, 9:47am Proud to be an American and proud to be not so politically correct that I stand for nothing. We as a country have gone too far!!! We have immobilized ourselves with the fear of offending someone. What once made our country great is now sending it down the toilet. Freedom or Freedom from others Freedom??? |
||||
|
Title: Re: OD'ed on PC Post by floridian on May 26th, 2004, 10:26am By 'having a say' I didn't mean the rights to free speech, assemble into groups, or petition the government, which I put into the category of fundamental rights. I was referring to voting, holding office, and other activities limited to citizens. People can't drive unless they prove they are familiar with the rules of the road. But they can vote even if they don't know what the main branches of government are, what the difference is between the Senate and House, etc. ... there is no responsibility. People can't vote if they are under age 18, because they are deemed immature and unable to constructively participate. In many states, being a felon disqualifes a person from voting - a person with a felonious character is considered damaging to democracy. But being an ignoramus is not recognized as a problem. Don't know the difference between Iraq and Iran?? Can't understand the magnitude of millions, billions and trillions of dollars of budget deficit?? No problem - just step into the voting booth and help decide these policies. Don't need an understanding of facts - just pick which 30 second TV commercials you like. Which candidate projects the best leadership qualities?? Which presses your emotional hot buttons?? Quote:
Why do you think I (or others whose views are different that yours) are truly unhappy here?? You started the whine. You are confusing "the way we do things" with "the way you want things." You don't like some things about this country, and you are trying to change them to your liking. I don't like some things either, though my concerns are different from yours. Your 'love it or leave it' attitude is a false dichotomy - like the old 'have you stopped beating your wife?' bit. Accepting the false dichotomy distorts the situation - love it and try to improve it is a valid alternative. The culture has never been one thing, it has always been lots of things, changing over time. The language? Not really an issue, virtually all migrants learn English. Older people have trouble, but most learn enough to get by and virtually all want their kids to speak English. The responsibilities?? Yeah, people should follow the law, should contribute to society while they pursue their own goals. The freedoms? Like the freedom to practice their own culture?? The freedom to change things they don't agree with?? Those are freedoms that your rant argues against. Quote:
Conservatives complain about moral relativisim while they promote factual relativism. Having a patriotic attitude is fine. But if voters are clueless, then democracy is degraded. |
||||
|
Title: Re: OD'ed on PC Post by Racer1_NC on May 26th, 2004, 11:01am on 05/26/04 at 10:26:27, floridian wrote:
Floridian.... While I must admit you and I rarely share the same side of a political issue, the above statement is exactly how I feel about voters in general. It troubles me no end the lack of understanding the general population has about the issues we as a country face. Votes cast on the basis of a 30 second TV spot have decided more elections than we'll ever know. I have no problem with someone that has at least a basic understanding of an issue having a different opinion than I do. Different people come to different conclusions when faced with the same facts. What I can't respect is someone who spouts an opinion and then can't explain to me WHY or HOW they came to believe it. This applies to both the left and the right. I will say however, that I do believe that English should be the primary language used in this country. When my grandparents came to America in the early part of the 20th century, they had to learn to speak English and adapt to the cultures of the time. There were no mulitlingual signs, government outreach programs, or people bending over backwards to cater to them. They learned, adapted, and became successful, productive people in this country. I don't see a problem with todays LEGAL immigrants having to do the same. Bill |
||||
|
Title: Re: OD'ed on PC Post by floridian on May 26th, 2004, 11:12am I agree that English is a unifying factor in our culture - Canada with the English/French is weaker, Yugoslavia was weakened by multiple languages, and the European Union is hampered by the many languages. But an even bigger effect on the breakup of Yugoslavia was the totalitarian supression of minority cultures under Tito. For the record, my father spoke almost no English when he was young. He is a sucessful professional who makes his living in a position based on the English language. English is a second language for my wife, who is quite fluent. I agree that language is an important skill and immigrants should adapt. And I think that is happening for the most part. Pennsylvannia was officially bi-lingual until 1815, and German is still the main language for 120,000 Amish and Mennonites in the US practicing their religious and cultural freedom. Bill - I agree that the emotional decision making process is a problem for both the left and right. People are bound to disagree, but its less of a problem if they do so rationally. |
||||
|
Title: Re: OD'ed on PC Post by ckelly181 on May 26th, 2004, 11:56am Eu aprecío ler seus bornes, floridian. Você é muito bem-well-versed e insightful. Eu amo meu homeland. Chris |
||||
|
Title: Re: OD'ed on PC Post by thomas on May 26th, 2004, 12:58pm DEMOCRACY IS DEAD AND HAS BEEN FOR DECADES! WAKE UP PEOPLE. |
||||
|
Title: Re: OD'ed on PC Post by Leesa on May 26th, 2004, 12:59pm Damn Proud to be AMERICAN!! Love it or Leave it is the way I see it!! Leesa, that never has nor will EVER be politically correct!! |
||||
|
Title: Re: OD'ed on PC Post by forgetfulnot on May 26th, 2004, 1:42pm All I can say is I drive on the right but vote on the left, well most of the time. Comprenda? Lee |
||||
|
Title: Re: OD'ed on PC Post by Gator on May 26th, 2004, 5:41pm floridian, I must admit that I agree with you that American citizens should take it upon themselves to know about their government, it's parts and the functions of those parts. They should be familiar with their constitution and laws. They should study the issues and where the candidates stand on those issues. All those things are true. It's not reality, but it is true none the less. As far as me confusing "the way we do things" with "the way you want things." You are wrong. This country was founded on the basis of personal and religious freedom. People on both sides of an issue have rights. People have the right to try to change things within the framework set up to do so. Others have the right to reject those changes and vote them down if it comes to that. Kind of like when the Dixie Chicks made those comments about the president. They had every right to make them. People had every right to reject them and not to listen to their music. Radio stations quit playing their songs at the audiences request, but the Dixie Chicks did not respect the rights of the listeners. No. They went to congress to try to force the radio stations to play their music again against the peoples' and the stations' will. It seems to be that way with liberals. They are all for "their" right to speak. They are against everyone else's right not to listen. You understand your rights. You just don't understand, everyone else's. Please tell us all what it is that makes you so "truly unhappy" here in this country? Just what are your concerns? What have you done, within the legal framework, to change this? I have made no bones about mine. You see, you are doing just what liberals are doing in this election year. They are crying about the way conservatives are doing things, but giving no specific plans on how they would do it better. I'm all wrong, but you don't have to express an opionion, just blast mine or anyone else's that doesn't agree with you. |
||||
|
Title: Re: OD'ed on PC Post by floridian on May 27th, 2004, 10:05am Gator, your mention of the Dixies Chicks brings up a number of issues. Yes, if they piss people off, they might experience a drop in air play and sales. That's the way the world works. They did testify in front of Congress, but it was not an attempt to force stations to play their music. The issue was the growth of conglomerates like Clear Channel, which own over 1000 radio stations. Not only did Clear Channel blacklist the Dixie Chicks, they also fired DJs who in any way questioned the rush to war. They are also questions on possibly illegal leveraging of their market control to gain greater control of the concert industry. The growth of these conglomerates is due to specific policies of the FCC, and Congressional hearings would have been held with or without Ms. Manes. Conglomerates like Clear Channel have replaced live, local programming with canned programming originating in distant studios. Local news, traffic reports, emergency broadcasts (other than the EBS) have all suffered. Radio request shows are a total fraud (the play list is already determined from a central office - if some one calls in to request a song that is next on the list, that 'request' is played.) If this were happening to a media like cable, I would say 'c'est la vie' - thats the way the market goes. But the radio spectrum is a limited resource owned by the public. Broadcast radio and television stations operate on a license of this resource, and it is fair to establish guidelines that require local content or limit ownership. Free markets only work when there is easy entry and exit - ie, companies can easily get into and out of the broadcast radio and TV business. That is not the case because the spectrum is limited, and the so called 'conservative' policies in the FCC have favored oligopoly and reduced competition. Coincidentally, the companies that profitted the most are big contributors to the administration that promotes those policies. What do I think should be done? Stop giving away the candy store. For every dollar the government receives in timber leases on public land, it spends several dollars to build roads so the logging companies can remove the trees - we are actually paying the companies to take public resources, not charging them! The current administration wants to accelerate logging under the guise of fire control, although the timber leases that companies get are of mature timber far from the city, while the fire risk is from commercially worthless scrub or private timber close to the city. Bush's Medicare bill?? It favors pharmaceutical companies and prevents the government from negotiating a fair price on drugs. Do I need to rehash the details of other heinous behaviors of the pharmaceutical industry on this board?? The government can and should reign in that behavior, but the current government would rather profit from the stranglehold of the drug companies. Tax cuts?? Tax cuts in a time of deficit are a way of redistributing wealth - it is being stolen from our children. Can we really afford trillion dollar tax cuts while we pile up multi-trillion dollar debts?? |
||||
|
Title: Re: OD'ed on PC Post by Woobie on May 27th, 2004, 10:12am OK ya'll.... get all this shit out in the open now - cuz we ain't arguing politics or religion at the convention.........OK? them's the rules........... ;;D ;;D ;;D ;;D |
||||
|
Title: Re: OD'ed on PC Post by Jeepgun on May 27th, 2004, 12:01pm Since we all seem to be "gettin' some," on this thread, I have my own rant: Saw a great bumper sticker the other day: "Bandwagon America: Loving my country since 9/11." For all of the Americans who couldn't give a shit about their nation on 9/10, who hurried out and bought an American flag on 9/12; if THAT's what patriotism is, they can all kiss my ass. |
||||
|
Title: Re: OD'ed on PC Post by JDH on May 27th, 2004, 12:21pm I miss Ted on these kind of threads :( Jim |
||||
|
Title: Re: OD'ed on PC Post by thomas on May 27th, 2004, 12:46pm on 05/27/04 at 12:01:25, Jeepgun wrote:
LMAO, Frank, I feel the same way, I coined the phrase "Nickle Patriotism" on 9/13. Lol, that's about all it's worth. |
||||
|
Title: Re: OD'ed on PC Post by Charlie on May 27th, 2004, 5:05pm I happen to believe that the English language has a lot to do with how we live here. It's a good thing to insist on. This I agree with and some other stuff. As for this thing being founded by bible thumpers, nothing could be further from the truth. Lots of agnostics, deists, and Unitarians. One of the big guys is Jefferson: These are some of his writings in letters and speeches: Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg. Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear. Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerve in the brain of Jupiter. But may we hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this most venerated reformer of human errors You'll find a couple pro-JC quotes too. Had to have one or two 200 years ago or else. Great thing the church. Charlie |
||||
|
Title: Re: OD'ed on PC Post by jonny on May 27th, 2004, 6:11pm Fuck the Douchey chicks, as of 9/11 we should be pulling every single olive skinned , middle eastern looking person out of every plane, train, ferry or bus line......Fuck "PC".....your feelings are hurt?....go the fuck home. If they happen to be US citizens to fucking bad, chalk it up to home land security and their security. This "PC" shit is going to get so many people killed Got a visa?....get the fuck out! Dont got a visa?.....Get the fuck out! Student visa?.....get the fuck out! Line the border with the military to protect our country, I dont want to hear that these bastards are already here, Why are they here?.....Someone fucked up by sending our boys over there while these fucks were walking into this country. I live four minutes from Boston so if a chemical weapon goes off during the convention I could be in the path ( Although I highly doubt it seeing that the bad guys want Kerry to win.....LMAO ;;D) Just my opinion ........................................jonny |
||||
|
Title: Re: OD'ed on PC Post by Gator on May 28th, 2004, 10:31am Regardless of what investigations were going on or congress' reason for listening to them, the Dixie Slits were not being noble. They were upset that people were exercising their right not to listen to them and were striking back. Quote:
Okay, let's just see what this terrible administration has been up to in the forestry industry: Republican Representative James Leach introduced the National Forest Protection and Restoration Act of 2004 Republican Representative Scott McInnis introduced the "Healthy Forests Restoration Act of 2003." Republican Senator Susan Collins introduced a bill to amend the Cooperative Forestry Assistance Act of 1978 to establish a program to provide assistance to States and nonprofit organizations to preserve suburban forest land and open space and contain suburban sprawl, and for other purposes. Republican Representative Greg Walden introduced a bill to amend the Cooperative Forestry Assistance Act of 1978 to establish a program using geospatial and information management technologies to inventory, monitor, characterize, assess, and identify forest stands and potential forest stands, and for other purposes. Republican Senator Olympia Snowe introduced Reforestation Tax Act of 2003 Republican Representative John Shadegg introduced the Wildfire Prevention and Forest Health Protection Act All these bills were introduced to save taxpayers money, reduce the deficit, cut corporate welfare, protect communities from wildfires, encourage Federal land management agency reform and accountability, and protect and restore America's natural heritage by eliminating the fiscally wasteful and ecologically destructive commercial logging program on Federal public lands, restoring native biodiversity in our Federal public forests, and facilitating the economic recovery and diversification of communities affected by the Federal logging program. The fires that decimated the forests and people last year were caused by environmentalist policies keeping the forestry services from clearing out the undergrowth in the forrests. In a National Forest, it is/was illegal to pick up and remove even dead and fallen limbs, because the environmentalist wackos convinced the right people that that is how "Nature intended it." The new policies that they are trying to put into place now allow for the clearing of the scrub which has been allowed to build up because of the hands off policies. BTW Did you know that due to our practices of harvesting and re-planting there are more acres of forest now than there ever have been? Quote:
The IRS and the federal income tax system were originally supposed to be a temporary measure to pay for the Civil War. It was enacted in 1862 and repealed 10 years later. Congress revived it in 1894, but the Supreme Court found it unconstitutional the following year. Congress had had a taste of money, though and it liked it. Unconstitutional or not, the 16th Amendment to our constitution was ratified in 1913 and we've been screwed ever since. I wouldn't mind paying taxes for the necessities, but when Uncle Sugar sticks his hand in my pocket for stupid crap like funding studies to find out how to make pickles crunchier or to study the mating habits of animals or to pay for $900 hammers and $500 toilet seats, I get a little pissed. Taxes, not tax cuts are a vehicle for redistributing wealth. Money is being taken from people who work their butts off, or invest wisely and is being given to people who are capable of working, but won't or to women who become baby factories or to people who don't think ahead enough to provide for their retirement. All the programs to "take care" of people are being funded primarily by the top wage earners of our country. The "evil rich" whom liberals seem to dispise so much are the ones paying most of the taxes. The top 10% of wage earners pay more than 50% of the taxes in this country. It has been proven time and again that tax cuts spur investment which in turn spurs on the economy. Which is what is happening now. No, money is not being stolen from anyones children. It is being given back to the people it was stolen from in the first place. |
||||
|
Title: Re: OD'ed on PC Post by floridian on May 28th, 2004, 11:16am Quote:
Sure, if you consider a pine plantation a 'forest' (in which case you'd probably consider a suburban lawn a 'prairie'). Yeah, there are Republicans that support reforestation policy, reforestation tax credits and other laws that I (and most people) agree with. Most of these are reauthorization of laws that have been around for a while, and have a constituency. While all of the laws you mention have very positive titles, those titles don't always go hand in hand with the policies they promote. Nobody wants to say they are against the "Baseball, Apple Pie and Motherhood Act," regardless of what's in the act. "Total Information Awareness" had to be renamed "Terrorist Information Awareness" because the original name made it clear that privacy would suffer and big brother would become bigger. Total information awareness raises all kinds of Constitutional issues (unreasonable search and siezure, reasonable expectation of privacy), while everybody wants to catch the bad guys. In place of a detailed explanation of how the Bush Administration has worked to roll back environmental protection of public lands, let me just point you to the rapidly growing group of conservative hunters that oppose many of Bush's policies. Hunt clubs in Texas think that their former governor is giving too much to the timber and mineral companies!! Conservative Sportsmen Turn Against Bush http://www.galleryofguns.com/shootingtimes/Articles/DisplayArticles.asp?ID=5520 Its kind of like the criticism Tom Clancy and Gen. Zinni directed against the war in Iraq. Poor decision making at best, corruption at worst. (At first I thought Tom Clancy was just hired to co-write the book and did it for money. But I found out that he really thinks the policy stinks, and he was about 6 seconds from punching the shit out of Richard Perle when the two got into an argument a while back.) Of course, General Zinni and Tom Clancy could always move to Cochabamba if they don't like the way we do things here. Quote:
If tax cuts increase the national debt, it leads to an inter-generational transfer of wealth. Unrestrained debt innevitably results in increased taxes, or devaluation of currency (inflation => lost wages and savings, higher prices), or both. |
||||
|
Title: Re: OD'ed on PC Post by Jeepgun on May 28th, 2004, 11:39am The Dems and the enviro-nazis are the ones with the agenda of cutting access to public land -- Land that you and I pay for with our taxes. Yet, I don't see the fuckin Sierra Club or Greenpeace or any of these other talking anus-holes out there cleaning up ANYTHING! When my offroading club and I go trail-riding, we always take along plenty of trashbags and as we go, we stop along the way and pick up bottles, cans, and all sorts of other garbage. Man.... f*ck those a$$holes. >:( The fact that they wouldn't allow forest management and cutting/thinning of diseased trees is EXACTLY what caused the California fires to grow so horribly out of control last year. (Would you like to know how I really feel about it? ;;D |
||||
|
Title: Re: OD'ed on PC Post by floridian on May 28th, 2004, 12:07pm Quote:
Ever been to their meetings? Or you just watch every mile of every trail all the time and never seen 'em?? They are near me cleaning the shore line several times a year. All I have to do is open my newspaper and read about it. There are signs around my town saying "this mile of road cleaned by XYZ environmental group." Quote:
No timber company wants to cut the canyon lands around LA where the fires were. It is crap scrub with no commercial value. The terrain is steep. Much of it is owned by individuals or companies, and getting permission from all the land owners would be a major nightmare. Suburban homeowners don't want fire to be used as a management tool - that could have reduced or prevented many of the fires. Most of the environmental groups do want to use prescribed burn to reduce the risk of fire and maintain ecosystem functioning. Many people in the forest agencies want to do more prescribed burns. Its the homeowner who wants to live out in the 'country' without having any of the burdens of country living that should buck up and accept some responsibility. They could have cleared fire breaks on their own land. They could have built using fire resistant materials. They could have installed sprinklers for fire control. And they could have supported prescribed burns. |
||||
|
Title: Re: OD'ed on PC Post by Gator on May 28th, 2004, 2:07pm on 05/28/04 at 11:16:13, floridian wrote:
Do you honestly believe it was the right thing to do to sit back and allow Saddam Insane to commit the genocide of the Kurdish people? Are 350,000 bodies (so far) not enough for you? What number would be sufficient, 1 million, 2 million, 10 million? Do you believe that if a person (or a nation) has the ability to stop the senseless murder of another he has a moral obligation to do so? Or should we have just turned our heads and watched silently as he and his sons happy danced on the graves of thier own countrymen and then armed himself to the teeth to prepare for future conflicts. As I have stated in past threads, I do not support everything that Bush has signed into law. My main support of him has to do with his willingness to risk his popularity and career to take the fight to the terrorists and the countries that support them rather than waiting for them to attack us here. Radical Islamic terrorism is probably the largest problem facing this nation and even the world. They are not interested in staying within their own borders and practicing their religion. Their interpretation of the Koran tells them to basically dominate the world and rid it of anyone who is not Muslim. I shudder to think how many more attacks may have been perptrated had there been a Clinton or Kerry in the white house on 9/11. |
||||
|
Title: Re: OD'ed on PC Post by Melton on May 28th, 2004, 2:20pm on 05/27/04 at 18:11:08, jonny wrote:
Must agree with jonny, for the most part. For me, I work with too many fine Canadians, Britts, and Austrailians to do a wide sweep and kick them out altogether. Towel heads, orientals, south of the boarder, and red dots need to get the F out of here. In my opinion, Yep, like an a-hole - I have one. |
||||
|
Title: Re: OD'ed on PC Post by Jeepgun on May 28th, 2004, 2:43pm Man, that would really suck if my wife were deported to Japan and my 6-year old daughter were left without a mother. >:( I must bow to your intellect and compassion, Mark. >:( |
||||
|
Title: Re: OD'ed on PC Post by Gator on May 28th, 2004, 2:45pm on 05/28/04 at 12:07:41, floridian wrote:
|
||||
|
Title: Re: OD'ed on PC Post by jonny on May 28th, 2004, 2:50pm on 05/27/04 at 18:11:08, jonny wrote:
I think I made myself clear above, the only people I have a problem with are the ones that are trying to kill us. ............................jonny |
||||
|
Title: Re: OD'ed on PC Post by Jeepgun on May 28th, 2004, 2:51pm Ditto, Jonny. |
||||
|
Title: Re: OD'ed on PC Post by BobG on May 28th, 2004, 2:53pm Quote:
And while we're speaking of crap. and being good for the economy.......Ford should be forced to buy all the Chebrolets. And Texaco should buy all the Chevron oil. And the enviormentalists should get over themselves 8) |
||||
|
Title: Re: OD'ed on PC Post by floridian on May 28th, 2004, 2:57pm Quote:
Knowing that a war against Iraq was coming soon, Bush & company didn't want to incur casualties in Afghanistan, so we had our Afghani allies chase bin Laden (and lose him). Then they pulled troops, translators and other assets away from the fight against Al Qaeda to go to Iraq. The military leaders wanted a large number of boots on the ground to control the aftermath, but were over ruled by Rumsfeld, and the result was an innability to exert control, and 4500+ US casualties. On three occassions, the administration could have taken out al-Zarqawi, the alleged ringleader in the Nicholas Berg murder, but they declined for political reasons. An undercover intelligence operator (Plame) is exposed by political hacks in the Whitehouse, violating federal law and endangering many of the people who she associated and making it harder to develop intelligence assets in the future. And in Iraq, the US has settled in on a strategy of alternately enraging different sectors of that society (Fallujah, Al Sadr, etc) and withdrawing after being unable to subdue anyone. The Justice Department lied to the Supreme Court about their 'interogation techniques' and will be slapped down in the next few months. Halliburton had their men risk their lives driving empty tankers back and forth across Iraq to bilk the feds out of money for 'sailboat fuel' deliveries. The FBI is conducting several investigations of right wing think tanks in Washington to find how Chenney's right hand man Challabi got classified information and passed it on to Iran, putting the lives of American troops in danger. The cakewalk we were promised never materialized, and no plan was ever drafted for an occupation. Did I leave anything out? Yeah, its friday, and I don't have time to list the entire litany of errors that were made. Some were made because errors are always made in war. Others were made because people believed their own BS, were incompetent, or corrupt. I can see what you mean. The current administration is doing such a great job. Thank goodness that Gore didn't make it to the White House. There's no telling what he would have done, but I'm afraid he would have nailed some additional Al Qaeda guys and kept of out the mess in Iraq. Quote:
Actually, the genocide of the Kurds was halted by the No-Fly zone policies after the first Gulf War. Northern Iraq was outside of Saddam's control. Containment was imperfect, but it was working. But two Republican administrations did just sit by when the genocide of the Kurds happened. Reagan, Bush 41 and Rumsfeld continued to support Saddam. They wanted a modern, non-fundamentalist Arab who would keep Iran in place. The fact that Saddam started the war with Iran wasn't a problem. The fact that he used a variety of conventional and unconventional weapons to kill a million Iranians wasn't a problem. The fact that a few insurgents in the mountains of the Kurdish area were killed wasn't a problem. It wasn't until Saddam invaded Kuwait that he was denounced and vilified by the Republicans. http://mywebpages.comcast.net/atrios/rumsfeld-saddam.jpg |
||||
|
Title: Re: OD'ed on PC Post by Mark3 on May 28th, 2004, 3:02pm on 05/28/04 at 14:43:19, Jeepgun wrote:
I stand corrected Sir, My statement was too broad. It's the people, sects, groups, and / or organizations that are a threat to our country and it's citizens that need to be kept from or removed from our borders. My appologies. |
||||
|
Title: Re: OD'ed on PC Post by Jeepgun on May 28th, 2004, 3:09pm No problem, Mark. :) |
||||
|
Title: Re: OD'ed on PC Post by floridian on May 28th, 2004, 3:16pm on 05/28/04 at 14:50:36, jonny wrote:
No, you didn't. Most Italians and Greeks are olive skinned and can look middle eastern. People from India and Israel can look Middle Eastern. Most middle eastern people who are here are here because they like something about America - opportunity, freedom, Britney Spears, whatever. While your purging the country, don't forget to flush the Constitution - that scrap of paper that says that people should be considered innocent until proven guilty. People who want to come here have an extra burden - they first go through the process and demonstrate that they don't want to overthrow the government or kill people. That's fair. And once we let them in with a student visa or work permit or a green card, they should be treated according to our laws. That's the way we do things here. If you don't like it, Jonny and Mark3, you can pack your bags for Ougadougou or Burjumburwa. ("If you don't like things here you can ...." Is that phrase thoroughly tired yet?) |
||||
|
Title: Re: OD'ed on PC Post by jonny on May 28th, 2004, 3:22pm on 05/27/04 at 18:11:08, jonny wrote:
Gee!, Jackass, looks like you forgot some of my quote....must have been an over sight, huh? Shall I bend you over and slide it in now or wait till the ladies show up? Get off the high horse jack-off or ill slap you off of it!! .......................................jonny ;;D |
||||
|
Title: Re: OD'ed on PC Post by floridian on May 28th, 2004, 3:29pm Quote:
Nah, you wandered into that one eyes wide shut. You deserve a little yellow rain and I had to go. I'll take your apology :) I'll even let you pretend it was a 'clarification' and not an apology. ;) |
||||
|
Title: Re: OD'ed on PC Post by jonny on May 28th, 2004, 3:35pm Clarification?......Nah, what you will need is an explanation when talking to the ER Doc about your bleeding....um....ass ;;D Been awhile since I shined the boots |
||||
|
Title: Re: OD'ed on PC Post by echo on May 28th, 2004, 4:24pm on 05/28/04 at 15:35:37, jonny wrote:
Nothing like repeated anal insertion to get that mirror quality shine to a pair of boots. ;;D |
||||
|
Title: Re: OD'ed on PC Post by Cerberus on May 28th, 2004, 9:47pm While I agree with SOME things posted here, and also disagree with SOME of the things posted here, I will not clarify which in specific....its a waste of breath and time. What disturbs me the most however is the followin: Basically, Our forefathers could not have possibly imagined that their thirteen colonies would grow and become anything near to what it has become today. So having written misinterpreted and much quoted when it seems fit founding documents we forget. All men being created "Equal" in the eyes of the law did not include anyone not white or not of European wealthy decent. Everyone else was property or below the level of men. Americans do NOT speak English, that is a language reserved for the English, we speak American a mishmosh of the already mishmoshed english language....Only another Irony in a looooooong list of ironies. My point is this....Government does not work the way it was meant to. Subjects were to be brought up and voted on by the people, we rarely get to vote on the actual issues, instead, we vote for people who are "supposed" to represent our interests, rarely is this the case...politics needs to be simplified and "PC" is relative only to the people who are offended. On war in general....war sux, it sux for everyone. While I support our troops abroad and at home and believe what we have done in Iraq was fundamentaly a good thing... without arguing about "reasoning" of why we did it and whether it was right or wrong, to me, it doesn't matter, the A$$hole needed to go. I also think we should pull ALL military support abroad back within borders and let all the pissing and whining rest of the world fend for themselves...really, shouldn't they be anyhow? If they are claiming to be sovereign nations why dont they defend themselves? Bring ALL the boys back home and use em to directly protect Americans and our way of life....fuck the rest. Imigration...while this nation of ours was founded on diversity and thrives on the same...it would be impractical to do as jonny suggested although I agree with it in principal. However, our government has done little within OUR power to curtail the inflow of illegals into the country, they could however discourage anyone who truly doesnt need or truly desire to be here. We give away WAAAAAY to much money for whatever reasons to help people move here and build a life. Facts are Facts people can move to America and recieve monetary, medical, and education benefits far beyond what most of us get and live for several years without fear of taxation, thousands of free dollars are litterally handed to imigrants to help them establish themselves within our borders......meanwhile people Born here recieve little if anything to help us flourish as well. I say if you want "in" bad enough, you better be willing to earn it. Getting here is not enough you gotta prove yourself on a daily basis like we do to get what we have. Government....Floridian posted that those who dont understand how it works should not get to vote. It worries me more that intelligent Americans such as he are having to deal with a government that caters to the ignorant. Its an insult really to the integrity of America as a whole, things have become so damn complicated that it impossible for the average joe to even comprehend what is really happening. The Government expexts your ignorance and reflects that in the campaigns and integrity (of all parties) and people seeking office.....its just plain sickening, the choices are dumb and dumber. When do we get to stop sending our money overseas and start getting concerned and investing or time and money in our internal social and political problems? PC and the rest of the stuff you are arguing about are just a distraction...lets get to spending our rescources on US for a change. JMHO, Ramon |
||||
|
Title: Re: OD'ed on PC Post by Charlie on May 28th, 2004, 11:53pm Gee everything is so simple for so many here. ::) Not healthy. Wishful thinking keeps your eyes off the ball. Dangerous. Quote:
Bullshit of the first order. George Bush and his crew could care less about the Kruds. The same is true for the Democrats. George is just covering his butt with some extra "reasons" for the war. Washington and the rest of the country can't use that one. Containing that schithead was working. Didn't need to go and you'll never convince me that those goons occupying the White House care one iota about being nice guys to anyone there. Give us a break. We are stuck though. We need a lot of luck. I'm not nor ever have been fond of PC. I agree with Bill Maher on this. Of course blaming everyone but themselves for environmental woes is typical of the party that calls ketchup a vegetable. I hope Duya tries to argue the enviornment with the Democrats........PLEASE. I'm not one who rants and raves about the enviornment issue, but the idea that we have thought about it is nice and half the battle. Not to worry though, enviornmental standards are being lowered all the time in Duyba's universe. Gotta take a break. kids. Fire away. (God I miss Ted) Charlie |
||||
|
Title: Re: OD'ed on PC Post by jonny on May 29th, 2004, 12:01am http://www.joked.com/content/2004/Mar2004/19/joked-dot-com-stupid-terrorists.wmv Got to love a good shoot'em up ;;D ...........................jonny |
||||
|
Title: Re: OD'ed on PC Post by Gator on Jun 1st, 2004, 2:58pm Gone too long. I spent Saturday at my Grandmother's funeral in Wagner, OK and spent most of Sunday and Monday fighting off attacks of the beastly kind. I've read through everything and for once in a political bar-room brawl, I have only a few things to say: 1. The title of this thread is OD'ed on PC. 100% describes how I feel about it. Call a spade a spade and get on with your life. If it hurts your feelings, tough that's life. Deal with it. 2. Saddam Hussein had to go, period. Containment was just delaying the inevitable. If the first Bush administration had done their job right. The military would have taken the ba$tard out the first time. 3. Clinton should have taken Bin Laden when the Syrians offered him to us, the first 3 times. If he had, there may not have been a 9/11. 4. Regardless of your political beliefs and aspirations, our military men and women deserve nothing but respect. The few that showed their asses in Iraq are not representative of any branch of our military or of America as a whole. There are a few bad apples in every group in society, the military is no different. 5. You have every right to disagree with anything I say. I proudly and voluntarily served for your right to do so along with millions of other Americans, a lot of whom are here on this board. At the end of the day, we are all clusterheads and hopefully can put it all aside and be one big happy, allbeit dysfunctional, family. Love you guys and gals, Gator |
||||
|
Title: Re: OD'ed on PC Post by Charlie on Jun 2nd, 2004, 4:04am Quote:
This is as dumb as it gets. At least Clinton took a shot. Bush did his level best to tell us that he wasn't interested in foreigh affairs. He made a big deal of it during the campaign. Bush had almost zero interest in anything in the area until 9-11. Ridiculous. It's the kind of shit you get from the Tom Delays and the other puritans who have wrecked my old party. Quote:
George the first is a decent sort who unlike his creepy son liked to play by the rules. I was disappointed that he didn't go after Saddam durning the first Gulf war. it would have made more sense than WMDs. George II didn't care at all and then he went after the wrong target. No matter what you say, Saddam's involvment in the WTC bombings is nil or at least so remote that it hardly makes blip on the screen. Pretty hard to make them love us by killing them. Same thing happened to England for nearly 40 years in Baghdad. Sorry, you can't get me going on the military. They have a horrible job a lot of the time and yet, they are the kind of people you want for neighbors. Polite, decent and good citizens. The kids in the prison are the exceptions and evidently had little business in the Army. You have to use your head when dealing with this kind of story. Charlie |
||||
|
Title: Re: OD'ed on PC Post by thomas on Jun 2nd, 2004, 8:42am on 06/01/04 at 14:58:44, Gator wrote:
That was a U.N. call, man. We had no control over that. They said pull out, and we did, see Republicans can comply with the commie bastards in the United Nations. |
||||
|
Title: Re: OD'ed on PC Post by Gator on Jun 2nd, 2004, 9:54am on 06/02/04 at 04:04:30, Charlie wrote:
|
||||
|
Title: Re: OD'ed on PC Post by Gator on Jun 2nd, 2004, 10:08am on 06/02/04 at 08:42:40, thomas wrote:
Yeah, I know it was a UN call. I should have written "If the first Bush administrtion had been allowed to do it's job right." It was a bad call none the less. As if we didn't already know it back then, the UN has shown itself to be fairly worthless since. The best they can do is say, "Stop or I'll say Stop again" unless it directly affects Europe that is. |
||||
|
Title: Re: OD'ed on PC Post by Jeepgun on Jun 2nd, 2004, 10:14am The UN.... What a fucking joke. |
||||
|
Title: Re: OD'ed on PC Post by Charlie on Jun 3rd, 2004, 12:37am I wasn't really saying anyone specific was trying to bait me. Sorry. I was sloppy. Many years ago, I was introduced to our military by my retired bird-Colonel relative. Guy is a retired Army nurse. Not many nurses make Colonel. Anyway. I can't say enough how impressed I am with the level of civilty and just plain good manners; not to mention their ability. I like what I've seen. Quote:
Passed out lots of cigars, got a blow job. The GOP spent something like $35,000,000 of or our money showing us their purity of essence. This is the party that we call on to watch our pursestrings. What Clinton did was embarrassing. The impeachment was just as stupid and sad. Quote:
Nobody thumbs their noses at the United Nations better than Republican adminsitrations. For the last 40 years we have made sure the UN is a crippled organization. Sure it's badly flawed but it's not a reason to insure that it remain so by bringing out the automatic "UN is crap, bullshit, too European, anti-American, etc." crapola. It's always the same Rush Limabuagh-like lazy response. What I'm saying is that the very idea of a UN is a good thing. That it exists is historically amazing. It may not work but it looks so dumb when we act so predictably. Charlie |
||||
|
Clusterheadaches.com Message Board » Powered by YaBB 1 Gold - SP 1.3.1! YaBB © 2000-2003. All Rights Reserved. |