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(Message started by: athos on Feb 8th, 2004, 11:11pm)
Title: FW: Muslim Terrorist
Post by athos on Feb 8th, 2004, 11:11pm
Muslim Terrorist

Everyone seems to be wondering why Muslim terrorists
are so quick to commit suicide.

Let's see now:

No Jesus,
No Wal-Mart,
No television,
No cheerleaders,
No baseball,
No football,
No basketball,
No hockey,
No golf,
No tailgate parties,
No Home Depot,
No pork BBQ,
No hot dogs,
No burgers,
No lobster,
No shellfish, or even frozen fish sticks,
No gumbo, No jambalaya.

More than one wife.

Rags for clothes and towels for hats.

Constant wailing from the guy next-door because he's
sick and there are no doctors.

Constant wailing from the guy in the tower.

No chocolate chip cookies.


No Christmas.

You can't shave.
Your wives can't shave.

You can't shower to wash off the smell of donkey
cooked over burning camel dung.

The women have to wear baggy dresses and veils at
all times.

Your bride is picked by someone else.

She smells just like your donkey, but your donkey
has a better disposition

Then they tell you that when you die it all gets
better!

I mean, really, IS THERE A MYSTERY HERE??


Don't mean to offend if you are a Muslim Terrorist - well yes I do
Title: Re: FW: Muslim Terrorist
Post by bobkip on Feb 9th, 2004, 2:16am
Yeah, but ya didn't say no clusterheadache.
Kip
Title: Re: FW: Muslim Terrorist
Post by floridian on Feb 9th, 2004, 6:55am
Sad to see such anti-semitic viewpoints here.


Quote:
Semite: A member of a group of Semitic-speaking peoples of the Near East and northern Africa, including the Arabs, Arameans, Babylonians, Carthaginians, Ethiopians, Hebrews, and Phoenicians.

dictionary.com


Like most anti-semitic racism, this smear is an interesting blend of truth, half-truth, and ignorance.  You aren't offending terrorists, you are taking a swipe at a large group of non-Christians.
Title: Re: FW: Muslim Terrorist
Post by Paigelle on Feb 9th, 2004, 6:58am
Why would any man in his right mind want more than one wife?
Title: Re: FW: Muslim Terrorist
Post by kissmyglass on Feb 9th, 2004, 7:00am
um..Threesomes!  But I'm not in my right mind....
Title: Re: FW: Muslim Terrorist
Post by BobG on Feb 9th, 2004, 7:05am

on 02/09/04 at 07:00:52, kissmyglass wrote:
um..Threesomes!  But I'm not in my right mind....


A fantastic fantasy but,

All you’d get is one women frustrated and the other one pissed off.
Title: Re: FW: Muslim Terrorist
Post by athos on Feb 9th, 2004, 12:09pm
floridian - (sorry bob)


This is not a viewpoint!

I don't understand the problem here...

I can whole heartedly laugh at myself, who I am, and what religious affiliation I am.  

The fact that I am mormon is hillarious.
Ask Cathy how many wives I have  ;) , or that I have been asked if I have horns...  I told the person "of course I do, but they are vestigal..  If you feel right here just above my eyebrows you can just make them out".


This post was not a smear, or a deflamitory comment.

Do not take it as anything but what it is.

You are assuming that I am anti-semetic and that this was racist. No and no.

I will be the first to laugh at myself and enjoy finding the humor in life and our diversity.

We have trained our society and ourselves to be hypersensitive.  To overanalize everything, to make mountains out of molehills, to find the issues where there are none.

If I have offened you I am sorry that was not the intention.

Athos
Title: Re: FW: Muslim Terrorist
Post by forgetfulnot on Feb 9th, 2004, 12:56pm

Quote:
I don't understand the problem here...  


I don't either Athos, Pretty fucking funny I think [smiley=laugh.gif] [smiley=laugh.gif] [smiley=laugh.gif]


Lee
Title: Re: FW: Muslim Terrorist
Post by hopefull on Feb 9th, 2004, 1:06pm
Took it the way you ment it....sometimes you have to laugh to keep from cry'n....thanks for the "chuckle" it gave me.....
Title: Re: FW: Muslim Terrorist
Post by floridian on Feb 9th, 2004, 1:28pm

Quote:
This post was not a smear, or a deflamitory comment.


Really?  Let's take my idea of the 'typical' Mormon (honest, hardworking, sober, family and community oriented, towards the conservative side, devout), and replace it with the stereotypes you are putting forward for others - the women smell like donkeys, the people and their food smell like camel dung, they never bathe,  etc.  You really believe that an LDS reading that type of slam of their community on a health forum somewhere would find it funny instead of insulting?  I can't imagine that.  
Title: Re: FW: Muslim Terrorist
Post by athos on Feb 9th, 2004, 1:31pm
With our hypersensitive society life has become a series of moral relativisms.


Instead of "MORALITY", a pure and definable entity, it has now become RELATIVE/SITUATIONAL
Title: Re: FW: Muslim Terrorist
Post by athos on Feb 9th, 2004, 1:32pm
thank you
Title: Re: FW: Muslim Terrorist
Post by Kirk on Feb 9th, 2004, 1:56pm
What about beer?

TTFN
Title: Re: FW: Muslim Terrorist
Post by athos on Feb 9th, 2004, 2:28pm
This was a joke nothing more.

The true Muslim religion is icredible, devout and honorable.

Same with most of the worlds moral religions.

Mormons are for the most part what you said, but there are sterotypes that exist there as well...  Some of I resemble and laugh whole heartedly...


Quote:
A man dies and goes to heaven.  He enters the gates of heaven and is greeted...  He is taken on a tour of heaven.... The guide with his megaphone starts to point out the sites on the tour..  'To your left you will see the Buhdists..  To your right, the Catholics... Protostant goups... and other various christian offshoots...  Further to you right you will see Hindu's & Muslims.  They travled further...  as the bus slows way down, the guide motions to look out over fields to a hard to see out cropping of buildings.  The guide said "shhhh...  we need to be very quite.. Over there are the Mormons.... The think that they are the only ones here."



Quote:
The LDS 6 P's for perfection: prophets...presidency...patriarchs...priesthoods...payees...prozac



Quote:
College Fraternities have historically invented some pretty trying methods of initiating new members. One we know of eliminates two out of three initiates by determining which can live with a pig the longest. On one occasion a Jew, a Muslim, and a Mormon were moved in with a particularly obnoxious swine. After less than a day the Jew left. The Muslim suffered the indignation only another day and moved out. The Mormon, the victor of the trial, vowed to establish a new fraternity record for endurance, but after another day the pig left!



Quote:
The Dean of Women at BYU was lecturing her students on sexual morality. "We live today in very difficult times for young people. In moments of temptation," she said, "ask yourself just one question: Is an hour of pleasure worth a lifetime of shame?"

A young woman rose in the back of the room and said, "Excuse me, but how do you make it last an hour?"



Quote:
An Irishman walks into a bar in Dublin, orders three pints of Guinness and sits in the back of the room, drinking a sip out of each one in turn. When he finishes them, he comes back to the bar and orders three more.

The bartender approaches and tells him, "You know, a pint goes flat after I draw it, it would taste better if you bought one at a time."

The Irishman replies, "Well, you see, I have two brothers. One is in America, the other in Australia, and I'm here in Dublin. When we all left home, we promised that we'd drink this way to remember the day when we drank together.

So I drinks one for each a me brothers and one for meself." The bartender admits that this is a nice custom, and leaves it there. The Irishman becomes a regular in the bar, and always drinks the same way. He orders three pints and drinks them in turn.

One day, he comes in and orders two pints. All the other regulars notice and fall silent. When he comes back to the bar for the second round, the bartender says, "I don't want to intrude on your grief, but I wanted to offer my condolences on your great loss."

The Irishman looks confused for a moment, then a light dawns in his eye and he laughs.

"Oh, no. Everyone's fine," He explains, "I just joined the Mormon Church and I had to quit drinking."


A joke... nothing more  Sorry you were offended, that was not the intention...  Have you ever been to a comedy club?  Has the comedian ever pointed you out?  

Don't take offense where none is intended.

--Athos
Title: Re: FW: Muslim Terrorist
Post by jonny on Feb 9th, 2004, 2:32pm

on 02/09/04 at 14:28:15, athos wrote:
Have you ever been to a comedy club?  Has the comedian ever pointed you out?  


Yes, and he had to pick up his teef before he left the stage ;;D

...........................jonny
Title: Re: FW: Muslim Terrorist
Post by floridian on Feb 9th, 2004, 2:54pm
Ok, OK,

I'm sitting on a block of ice - tryin to cool my arse.  I'll take you at your word on your intentions.  

A separate issue with your post - I think frozen fish sticks are more likely to cause deviant behavior than prevent it. Matt Groenig astutely observed that fish sticks are neither a fish, nor a stick - they are actually a fungus.  
Title: Re: FW: Muslim Terrorist
Post by tommyD on Feb 9th, 2004, 6:20pm
Ya got something against fungus????

Some of my best friends are fungi... ;)
Title: Re: FW: Muslim Terrorist
Post by RevDeFord on Feb 9th, 2004, 7:12pm
Personally, I could care less whether he was saying it to hurt Muslims or not.  

Personally, he could say anything he wanted to about me as a Christian Minister and I could care less.

We have forgotten what it means in this country to have freedom of speech.  You don't have to listen, you don't have to take it to heart.  If you don't like what he said, pray for him and leave him alone.

Political correctness irks me.  And tolerance is only tolerance so long as it is not my view that you have to tolerate.

Good post, I laughed my tail of and distributed this to everyone in my office at work.
Title: Re: FW: Muslim Terrorist
Post by floridian on Feb 9th, 2004, 7:27pm

Quote:
Ya got something against fungus????


There are fungi, and then there are fungi.
Title: Re: FW: Muslim Terrorist
Post by cootie on Feb 9th, 2004, 7:53pm
Actually the donkeys are more attractive then the women and less hair. Don't sit in the front row if ya don't want a comedian to take a shot at ya Pam
Title: Re: FW: Muslim Terrorist
Post by floridian on Feb 9th, 2004, 8:55pm

Quote:
Personally, I could care less whether he was saying it to hurt Muslims or not.  


Ok, "reverend" - do you value the political idea of free speech above archaic principles like the golden rule (“Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law of the prophets.”  ( Matthew, 7:12))  Do you champion secular political rights over ethical and spirtitual principles?  You seem pretty intent on praising God through your music - don't forget the other half of the law: Love your neighbor as yourself.  I'm pretty sure 'neighbor' doesn't just mean the people that live within a few miles of you.  I do have neighbors that are Arab (Christian and Muslim).  They don't ride camels, smell like dung, or plot terrorism.  I really don't think they would have found the original post funny, and I suspect some might have been hurt.  They have pride in their cultures and religions, and if you or anybody think its ok if the original post was intended to hurt my neighbors, then you are spiritually deformed.  

You are a tough guy and say you don't care what people think about you as a Christian Minister. But would you want your child, your parents or your neighbors to be insulted, humilated or otherwise hurt by words?  Think about it - their pain would prove that we are all free! It would glorify America!! You could hurt them yourself, right now.  Oh, wait, those are real people that you care about.  That's different from people you don't know or understand.


Quote:
We have forgotten what it means in this country to have freedom of speech.  You don't have to listen, you don't have to take it to heart.  If you don't like what he said, pray for him and leave him alone.
 

Oh, so people that I perceive as rude have rights to speak, but I don't. You think I should respond to ideas I disagree with by keeping quiet?  You could have tried that yourself and directed your insightful words to God instead of to me - but your principia and praxis don't seem quite together.  


Quote:
Political correctness irks me.  And tolerance is only tolerance so long as it is not my view that you have to tolerate.


PC irks me too. Extremes in political correctness do exist, but they are less common than idiots that proclaim "I hate political correctness" to excuse their uncouth behavior.   I'll be the first to admit that I am not tolerant of some types of speech. I don't tolerate people trying to rip off those of us who are suffering,  I don't  tolerate racism,  ethnocentrism, and other illogical behaviors.  I don't censor anyone or take away their legal rights, but I will meet their point with a counterpoint -  to understand them (because misunderstanding is rampant on the internet), or to refute them if it wasn't a misunderstanding.
Title: Re: FW: Muslim Terrorist
Post by Prense on Feb 9th, 2004, 8:59pm

on 02/09/04 at 19:12:38, RevDeFord wrote:
Political correctness irks me.  And tolerance is only tolerance so long as it is not my view that you have to tolerate.


Outstanding!

**Had to edit due to timing...**


on 02/09/04 at 20:55:54, floridian wrote:
I do have neighbors that are Arab (Christian and Muslim).  They don't ride camels, smell like dung, or plot terrorism.


That's because they are not muslim terrorists...  

;;D
Title: Re: FW: Muslim Terrorist
Post by Paigelle on Feb 9th, 2004, 10:07pm

on 02/09/04 at 07:00:52, kissmyglass wrote:
um..Threesomes!  But I'm not in my right mind....


Well the threesome thing aside...

Reasons no man would want more than one wife

*PMS
*nagging
*not enough closet space
*lots of "not tonight honey we all have headaches
Title: Re: FW: Muslim Terrorist
Post by athos on Feb 9th, 2004, 10:08pm

Quote:
They have pride in their cultures and religions,


GOOD  I woulkd expect nothing less.  This was not meant to be an exercise in free speech... anti PC or anything other than a little levity.


Quote:
Everyone seems to be wondering why Muslim TERRORISTS are so quick to commit suicide....  


It is the extremists who are commiting these acts of terror correct..  
This joke is about THEM.  Not Muslims...  Just because Muslims in general have something in common with them does not mean that "I" am slandering, racist or biggoted, and am bent on hurting the feelings of others!

Sheesh!

-----------------------------------

How about this Joke;



Quote:
Jeffrey Dahmer wasn't beaten to death...
He was just tenderized.


or this one:


Quote:
Q: Why was Jefferey Dahmer despised by his high school drama class?
A: He always got the meatiest parts.


Should I take offense to that because he was a white anglo male?  I am sure that we had other things in common, we may have even worn the same brand of shoes.  Does the fact that I was in some plays bear more resemblance?

-----------------------------------------

This was NOT anti-semetic.  This was anti-terrorist.  It just so happens that the current major force behind the world terrorist acts happen to be muslim extremists.  So if "Semitic-speaking peoples of the Near East and northern Africa, including the Arabs, Arameans, Babylonians, Carthaginians, Ethiopians, Hebrews, and Phoenicians" get offended and hurt by this innocent joke, then I guess that is just collateral damage.
Title: Re: FW: Muslim Terrorist
Post by floridian on Feb 9th, 2004, 10:40pm

Quote:
That's because they are not muslim terrorists...


Oh, so the non-terrorist Muslims have Jesus, celebrate Christmas, eat pork barbeque and lobster, and don't wear turbans?   The old stereotype of Arabs being rag-heads etc, etc now only applies to Arab terrorists?  



Q. Why did the Muslim Terrorist kill himself?

A. [list of cultural and religious deficiencies, innacurate charicatures] Wouldn't you??
Title: Re: FW: Muslim Terrorist
Post by JDH on Feb 9th, 2004, 10:49pm

on 02/09/04 at 22:40:32, floridian wrote:
Q. Why did the Muslim Terrorist kill himself?

A. [list of cultural and religious deficiencies, innacurate charicatures] Wouldn't you??


now THAT'S funny  ;)

Jim
Title: Re: FW: Muslim Terrorist
Post by RevDeFord on Feb 9th, 2004, 11:10pm
People hurl insults at me all the time.  I don't get offended over crap like that.  People will no doubt hurl insults at my son.  And when they do, I will try to teach him that it is their right to do so.  He can be confident enough in his own self esteem to know that they are full of balogne.

Too many people wear a chip on their shoulder, just waiting for somone to say one iota of a nothing so that they can get their dire up and get offended.  I say so what.

Noone says anything to the muslim who is instructed to kill me in his religious documents because I am an infidel, an not just an infidel, but one who leads infidels.  Noone says a thing about that.

I just think there are WAY too many people looking to get offended and in so doing, are actively seeking ways to censure speech.  And, the real bottom line is, people aren't really concerned about other people in this way, they are actually only concerned  with trying to make a buck through trial lawyers who are doing their darndest to capitalize on stupidity.

I say, they are all just another squirrel trying to get a nut.......and that is an actual nut, not a fleshly one jonny      [smiley=laugh.gif]
Title: Re: FW: Muslim Terrorist
Post by t_h_b on Feb 9th, 2004, 11:26pm

on 02/08/04 at 23:11:55, athos wrote:
No Wal-Mart,


Wal-Mart sucks.  The Muslim terrorists are better off for not having it.
Title: who dunnit
Post by rumplestiltskin on Feb 10th, 2004, 12:12am

Quote:
It just so happens that the current major force behind the world terrorist acts happen to be muslim extremists.


Well.... I just have to disagree. I believe dat ole "christian" Mr. Bush leads the world's largest terrorist group.

search "depleted uranium"...for a eye opener. Lot of our boys are on a suicide mission too and don't even know it....and the bosses in DC don't care.

..and yes...this began with a racist post and would be pulled...butt...we gotta dehumanize those we exterminate....makes us sleep better.

good grief
den
Title: Re: FW: Muslim Terrorist
Post by athos on Feb 10th, 2004, 12:32am
Racist????  What ever floats your boat...

He who takes offense, where none is intended, is a fool. He who takes offense, where offense is intended, is generally a fool. -- Socrates

Lighten Up.
Title: Re: FW: Muslim Terrorist
Post by pubgirl on Feb 10th, 2004, 2:03am
General point: Racism or harassment is not defined by the intention of the person delivering it, but the impact on the person receiving it, so "that was not the intention" or "It was only a joke" is not ever a defence.

I kind of agree with both Athos and Floridian here, as Den says, the first pot WAS racist Athos, whether you meant it to be or not, adding that it only refers to Muslim terrorists is disingeneous, it still wouldn't be OK to stereotype or insult black people , then say you only meant black gangland murderers

BUT

VERY MUCH A PERSONAL VIEW BUT I also get tired of it when everyone who is not personally insulted or upset by a comment starts attacking an individual on behalf of someone else who MIGHT have been insulted if they had heard it. Not perhaps relevant here, but it annoys me when one ethnic group (usually white) decide what is offensive to other ethnic groups for them! That is sanctimonious and self righteous. Same rule applies as far as I'm concerned, it is the person on the receiving end who decides what is offensive or not.

I'll duck and hide because I've probably inflamed both sides now!

Wendy
Title: Re: FW: Muslim Terrorist
Post by fubar on Feb 10th, 2004, 2:41am

on 02/10/04 at 00:32:58, athos wrote:
He who takes offense, where none is intended, is a fool. He who takes offense, where offense is intended, is generally a fool. -- Socrates


Excellent quote.

and Wendy:


Quote:
VERY MUCH A PERSONAL VIEW BUT I also get tired of it when everyone who is not personally insulted or upset by a comment starts attacking an individual on behalf of someone else who MIGHT have been insulted if they had heard it. Not perhaps relevant here, but it annoys me when one ethnic group (usually white) decide what is offensive to other ethnic groups for them! That is sanctimonious and self righteous. Same rule applies as far as I'm concerned, it is the person on the receiving end who decides what is offensive or not.


Brilliant.  Could not have said it better myself.  It amazes me when people are offended on behalf of others.  What a waste of energy.  Save it.
Title: Re: FW: Muslim Terrorist
Post by athos on Feb 10th, 2004, 3:10am

Quote:
General point: Racism or harassment is not defined by the intention of the person delivering it, but the impact on the person receiving it, so "that was not the intention" or "It was only a joke" is not ever a defence.


I reffer back to Socrates, but then he was probably a racist too....

Intent does make a difference here.  Intent is prosecutable.  If I intended to hurt someone, had gone out of my way to inflict pain and suffering then this tribunal would be justified.

Because there are those who choose to be offended by remarks that are meant in innocent jest, that is their responsibilty not mine.  There are those who go out of their way to be "offended" I am not saying that this is the case here... In some instances the ACLU has weakend our society not streagnthed it.

With the logic that intent is irrealevant, I may decide that the use of the color green that DJ uses is offensive..  Is that DJ's fault that is offensive to me?  No that would be my fault.

As far as being disingeneous, i disagree....  If you say that I am disingeneous then you are questioning my motivation, honesty, and intent.  If I am disingeneous, then I did this intentionaly to hurt someone... Do you really believe that?    This was a jab a the muslim extremeist terrorist, not at muslims.......

what is the last line of the original post?

Quote:
Don't mean to offend if you are a Muslim Terrorist - well yes I do


So the only ones that I meant to offend were the Muslim Terrorist... Would all the muslim Terrorist please stand up...

There was no intention implied or otherwise here of being racist, unless you are made from green jello and are partial to carrot shavings.
Title: Re: FW: Muslim Terrorist
Post by BobG on Feb 10th, 2004, 3:50am
A couple of points....

1. This string was NOT racist. Muslim is a religion, NOT a race. Terrorist is NOT a race.

2. The words Muslim Terrorist is NOT anti-semitic. If athos had said Catholic Terrorists or Communist Terrorist, would that be anti-semitic? NO it would not. He's talking about TERRORISTS, NOT race or religion.

3. Fuck you if you can't take a joke.

4. If you don't like or are offended by 1, 2 or 3, fuck off. I don't care.

PS
I have to slightly disagree with Den. "I believe dat ole "christian" Mr. Bush leads the world's largest terrorist group:
I think it's a guy named Rumsfield.

PS again
The Jeffery Dahmer jokes were funny. Got any more?

And so were the Morman jokes. I LMAO, but I've heard them all before.
Title: Re: FW: Muslim Terrorist
Post by floridian on Feb 10th, 2004, 6:05am

Quote:
1. This string was NOT racist. Muslim is a religion, NOT a race. Terrorist is NOT a race.  

2. The words Muslim Terrorist is NOT anti-semitic. If athos had said Catholic Terrorists or Communist Terrorist, would that be anti-semitic? NO it would not. He's talking about TERRORISTS, NOT race or religion.

3. Fuck you if you can't take a joke.  


1) Yes, Islam is a religion. Arab refers to race.  The original post was offensive to both.  

2) Using the term Muslim-terrorist is not racist or anti-semitic; I agree.  Repeating old, innacurate racial stereotypes to describe, criticize or tell jokes about Muslim terrorists is.  

When the Onion ran a piece on the 9-11 terrorists being suprised to wake up in hell being tortured, that was funny. It  did so without being derrogatory to large racial and religious groups.
Title: Re: FW: Muslim Terrorist
Post by BobG on Feb 10th, 2004, 6:33am

on 02/10/04 at 06:05:50, floridian wrote:
1) Yes, Islam is a religion. Arab refers to race.  The original post was offensive to both.  

I have read and re-read the original post and I can not find the word Arab. Can you please show mw where it says "Arab".
Title: Re: FW: Muslim Terrorist
Post by floridian on Feb 10th, 2004, 6:56am
Athos, I'm not questioning your motivation- as I said before, I believe you when you said you didn't intend to offend. But intention isn't the only important thing - effect is also important.  

If someone posted a news item on the this board that a newspaper or magazine wrote an article on cluster headaches, and it was innaccurate, misleading, or fragmented and incomplete, then you can bet that lots of clusterheads would be there fast.  We would have lots to say.  Even if the writer didn't have bad intentions.  Because what people understand or think about clusters is important.  It affects how society reacts to us.  It isn't some abstract political thing.  The images and stereotypes that are circulating sometimes determine if we get blank looks, or sympathy.  A job offer, or a "we'll call you."  Is the "women don't get cluster headaches" idea helpful to anyone here?  You don't mind if someone repeats it, do you?

Racial and religious groups also have reason to be concerned about ignorance and persistent negative images - just like clusterheads do.  Tell a joke about blacks, fried chicken and watermelon, and chances are good that you will be called racist.  You can defend yourself by pointing out that chicken and watermelon are delicious, and all people, black, white, or purple, should luuv watermelon.  But there is a racist pattern that links blacks to these foods and to stupidity, and ignorance won't prevent the insult.   The term rag-head is considered offensive to both Muslims and Arabs.  Whether or not you know it.  "Towels for hats" is not specifically offensive to terrorists - using it a sign that somebody doesn't understand and respect a much larger group.  Calling Asian members of Al Qaeda "slanty-eyed"  would be considered offensive. Not just by members of Al Qaeda.  

When I saw Anthony Clarke (comedian from Boston Commons, other TV), he told a joke about growing up in SLC, and dressing for Haloween as a coffee cup - scared the shit out of the Mormon kids.  It was funny.  But when people told anti-Mormon jokes in America as Mormons were being lynched and driven out of Nauvoo, those jokes had a different effect.  It wasn't funny then.  

I'm part Irish.  I don't take offense to Irish jokes.  Irish people have assimilated into American society.  Today, those jokes can be laughed at.  But when Americans considered the Irish to be a different, inferior race, and any Irishman who crossed the line had his head bashed (think "Gangs of New York") the stererotypes were harmful.  The jokes weren't funny then.

Title: Re: FW: Muslim Terrorist
Post by RevDeFord on Feb 10th, 2004, 7:14am
Everyone wants to paint somone as a victim.  You can sure paint African Americans as victims to some extent because of their history of fear and torture and worse at the hands of White males.   But Muslims are not victims, they are the worst at murdering and butchering and torturing people of our day, even more so than Communist dictators.

More than 2 million Christians die each year at the hands of Muslim extremists.

Now one will make the point that during the crusades Christians took lives much the same.  This is true and was completely heinus.  But alot has changed since then.   And 2 wrongs don't make a right.

Why does everyone have to be a victim?  Get over yourselves already.  There are things on this board every day that I could take offense at, but to be honest with you, I could care less.  I am not here to take offense, I am here to be an encouragement to others.

I don't need to be a hero, I just want a world where people shut up about being offended all the time.  Go to www.foxnews.com and see how this kind of nonsense translates into utter garbage in the tounge tied section.
Title: Re: FW: Muslim Terrorist
Post by t_h_b on Feb 10th, 2004, 7:47am
This thread certainly doesn't make a good impression on anyone reading it.  I would be especially embarrased if any Arabic or Muslim ClusterHead came here for help and read it.  I hope representatives of Glaxo or other drug companies with potential financial assistance for OUCH don't read it.  It doesn't speak very well of the people here or this site in general.  

What I'm picking up is an attitude something like this:

"It's okay to tell (fill in name of a group not like me) jokes if there aren't any (fill in name of a group not like me, plural) around." Especially if it is aimed at the worst members of that religious/racial group.

One example that I've actually heard in the past is, "It's okay to tell n*gger jokes if there aren't any n*ggers around."

Is it?

I've even had people tell lame, offensive jokes in front of me about a group to which I don't obviously belong.  Believe me, it WAS offensive, and their apologies fell flat.

The  joke being discussed certainly uses stereotypes. untruths, and kindergarten humor in a very unkind way, designed to offend, as a fairly low form of humor:


Quote:
You can't shave.
Your wives can't shave.

You can't shower to wash off the smell of donkey
cooked over burning camel dung.

The women have to wear baggy dresses and veils at
all times.

Your bride is picked by someone else.

She smells just like your donkey, but your donkey
has a better disposition


I hate the censoring PC leftists as much as anyone and was going to stay out of this but the number of people rising to attack those who rightly found it offensive demands comment.  

It belongs in the "Funnies and Jokes" section, anyway.

Thomas

*I put asterisks here because when I posted it with the full word it was automatically changed to 'black'.  Apparently whoever wrote the code for this message board finds racial comments to be offensive as well!
Title: Re: FW: Muslim Terrorist
Post by RevDeFord on Feb 10th, 2004, 8:27am
I would agree that this conversation is not appropriate for the Clusterhead forum, but neither is about 60% of the other conversations we have.  We are a family, and what we do is discuss.

I would also agree that this should be in the joke forum, but to be honest with you, although I love to laugh at some of these things that people post in these forums, I never remember to check the joke forum.

The problem is, no matter what you do, no matter what your intentions are, there is always somone who is going to decide to take offense.  You can never please everyone all the time, and if you do, it is because you aren't living close to your convictions - or you don't have any.  I could wear green in to work today and there may be somone that decides, for whatever reason, that they don't like green and they tell me they don't like green.  Then next week, when I wear green to work, they get offended because they told me they don't like green.  Should I stop wearing green just because this person says they don't like it?  I could care less whether they like it or not.

What I am trying to get to is that we don't need to be offended over every little thing.  Now, when somone attacks somone who cannot defend themselves, like children, then it is our responsibility to take action - not become merely offended, but actually take action.

By the way, I haven't attacked floridian for his/her views.  It is his/her right to have them and they don't hurt me in any way.  I am merely talking in general terms for what I see is a problem in society as a whole.
Title: Re: FW: Muslim Terrorist
Post by BobG on Feb 10th, 2004, 8:31am

on 02/10/04 at 07:47:55, t_h_b wrote:
 Apparently whoever wrote the code for this message board finds racial comments to be offensive as well!


Apparently the person(s) who wrote the code is a Un-American blue nosed censor of the worst kind. He/she/it is trying to force his/hers/its misplaced sense of  importance on the public. And succeeding. And that pisses me off.

And, if a representative of Glaxo or any other drug company comes here and thinks this message board speaks for OUCH then I think that person is a fool and the drug company should fire the SOB for being so stupid. This message board is NOT OUCH and never has been.
Title: Re: FW: Muslim Terrorist
Post by floridian on Feb 10th, 2004, 9:28am

Quote:
...

I kind of agree with both Athos and Floridian here, as Den says, the first pot WAS racist Athos, ...  

VERY MUCH A PERSONAL VIEW BUT I also get tired of it when everyone who is not personally insulted or upset by a comment starts attacking an individual on behalf of someone else who MIGHT have been insulted if they had heard it.   ...

I'll duck and hide because I've probably inflamed both sides now!


Your comments don't inflame me - I'm mostly puzzled.  I'm not Arab or Muslim, but I was offended.  I don't want to be part of any group that tolerates racism - be it an all white country club or a less formal gathering  of clusterheads on the net.  I'm not talking about a litmus test for what individuals believe, but what the group thinks is permissible in their space or sphere of activity.  

I went to school where Dr. Jack Shaheen taught - he is one of the leading writers on middle eastern stereotypes in the US.  His books "The Hollywood Arab,"  "The Comic Book Arab" and "The TV Arab" dissect the typical portrayal of that group in the media.  Leaders like Dr. Shaheen have spoken out about what they consider offensive.  I have  talked about this issue with friends who are from all over the world.  I don't know how each of them might respond to any given post.  But I do know enough to make some personal calls - some things I ignore, some things I challenge.  

"There is a decisive connection between media representations and public attitudes. Repetitive distortions defame an entire group."    With the internet, WE are part of the media.  
Title: Re: FW: Muslim Terrorist
Post by Paigelle on Feb 10th, 2004, 9:34am
OMG!!!!  Enough of this bickering already!  

IT WAS NOT MEANT TO OFFEND!  Can't anyone in this society just take something for face value and leave it alone?  Everyone has an opinion and you can't make everyone feel or think the same way you do.  So what is the point in dragging this out for pages and pages?  Geez

Sorry, all of this "i'm right, he's wrong" shit has gotten old.
Title: Re: FW: Muslim Terrorist
Post by Little Deb on Feb 10th, 2004, 10:04am
It was funny...and I was not offended in any way for myself..or anyone else.....

Big Hugs.....Little Deb ;;D
Title: Re: FW: Muslim Terrorist
Post by floridian on Feb 10th, 2004, 10:20am

Quote:
More than 2 million Christians die each year at the hands of Muslim extremists.


That would be terrible if true, but I haven't seen any evidence it is.  The worst place I know of for this is Sudan. About 2 million people have been killed there - over 18 years.  Many of them are Christians, but others are Animists.  Some died in brutal massacres, but most died of starvation and disease caused by a civil war.  There is a religious dimension to the civil war and no shortage of mutual hatred between the Christian and Muslim communities. But ethnic and tribal elements are also key to the conflict.  


Quote:
But Muslims are not victims, they are the worst at murdering and butchering and torturing people of our day, even more so than Communist dictators.


Again, where are the facts??  While hard numbers can't be found, here are some reasonable estimates:

The following are Rummel's 12 most murderous regimes (from his article in the Encyclopedia of Genocide, 1999): (1) USSR, 62 million deaths, 1917-'87; (2) People's Republic of China, 35 million, 1949-'87; (3) Germany, 21 million, 1933-'45; (4) nationalist China, 10 million, 1928-'49; (5) Japan, 6 million, 1936-'45; (6) prerevolutionary Chinese communists ("Mao Soviets"), 3.5 million, 1923-'49; (7) Cambodia, 2 million, 1975-'79; (8) Turkey (Armenian genocide), 1.9 million, 1909-'18; (9) Vietnam, 1.7 million, 1945-'87; (10) Poland, 1.6 million, 1945-'48; (11) Pakistan, 1.5 million, 1958-'87; (12) Yugoslavia, 1.1 million, 1944-'87. Three additional "suspected megamurderers," as Rummel puts it, are North Korea, 1.7 million deaths, 1948-'87; Mexico, 1.4 million, 1900-'20; and czarist Russia, 1.1 million, 1900-'17.

Armenia is the sole case of the genocidal murder of Christians by Muslims.  Most of the deaths in Pakistan are from Muslim-Hindu conflict.

On a separate note:


Quote:
Sorry, all of this "i'm right, he's wrong" shit has gotten old.


Then do what the racists advise and tune out this post. You don't have to be offended or tired of this discussion - you choose to be offended.  There is no right or wrong to having racism on this board- and its a relative thing. If you don't intend it or perceive it, it isn't there.  
Title: Re: FW: Muslim Terrorist
Post by bobkip on Feb 10th, 2004, 10:40am
Didja ever notice how many that jump on the soap box of righteous indignation have their email addy hidden and nothing in their personal profile. C'mon floridian, lighten up and let it go. IT WAS A FUCKING JOKE!
Kip
Title: Re: FW: Muslim Terrorist
Post by athos on Feb 10th, 2004, 11:56am
Floridian,


Quote:
Athos, I'm not questioning your motivation- as I said before, I believe you when you said you didn't intend to offend. But intention isn't the only important thing - effect is also important.


I do appreciate that you believe my intentions...  But If I should have to take responsibility as to what affect my words have on  you, then you also have to take responsibilty on how my words affect you.  You decide what you think and feel.  I should have no where close to that much power over you as to illicit pain and offense with mere joke.  You decide how and what will affect you and what you are going to do about it, not me.


Quote:
If someone posted a news item on the this board that a newspaper or magazine wrote an article on cluster headaches, and it was innaccurate, misleading, or fragmented and incomplete, then you can bet that lots of clusterheads would be there fast.  We would have lots to say.  Even if the writer didn't have bad intentions.  Because what people understand or think about clusters is important.  It affects how society reacts to us.  It isn't some abstract political thing.  The images and stereotypes that are circulating sometimes determine if we get blank looks, or sympathy.  A job offer, or a "we'll call you."  Is the "women don't get cluster headaches" idea helpful to anyone here?  You don't mind if someone repeats it, do you?  


If someone posts an article in a magazine and a newspaper and is incorrect, yes there would be a slew of us that would stop and inform them.

My thoughts on that would be #1 Great we are getting more exposure..  #2 here are the facts..  not a "Sad to see you are so uninformed."

As far as this family goes, being that we are CH'ers, comments jokes and jabs about me or you being a CH'er would make me laugh... if it were funny, if not I would ignore it.  But that is me.

Again we have the ACLU and the leftist liberals to thank for the "I am not responsible for me, you are." attitude.

Floridian I respect that you stand up for what you belive in.  I now respect your sensitivites a bit more, I still stand behing the post as being a joke and nothing more.

Take this a just one of the family being obstinant, borish and a pain in the ass.
Title: Re: FW: Muslim Terrorist
Post by floridian on Feb 10th, 2004, 1:17pm

Quote:
Take this a just one of the family being obstinant, borish and a pain in the ass.


yeah, everybody is where they are, dug in with their own position to various degrees.  Several of us could be described as pains in the ass, myself included.

Some days it rains, but most of the time the sun shines over clusterlandonia.  Not the end of the world, let it blow over.
Title: Re: FW: Muslim Terrorist
Post by athos on Feb 10th, 2004, 1:31pm
sounds good....


thanks..
Title: Re: FW: Muslim Terrorist
Post by msussman on Feb 10th, 2004, 5:26pm
A few points here from an actual "leftie liberal" that people seem so keen on deriding...

I'm not sure where the concept of liberal censure really came from.  To quote the famous leftie Noam Chomsky here, "If we do not believe in freedom of speech for those we despise, we do not believe in it at all"

Ergo, go ahead, make a "muslim terrorist" joke if you want...but I have just as much freedom to say you're being ignorant for spreading old muslim stereotypes.


on 02/10/04 at 11:56:52, athos wrote:
Again we have the ACLU and the leftist liberals to thank for the "I am not responsible for me, you are." attitude.

As a card-carrying member of the ACLU, I'm offended by that.   ;;D

Seriously, though, if the law were only about your intentions and not the results of them, then manslaughter would not be a crime.

To me, there's a big difference between promoting hackneyed stereotypes of those we wish to dehumanize for our convenience, and inventing someone who would be offended by the color green for the purpose of an argument.   One actually incurs the wrath of real violence against innocents - go ahead, check how much anti-arab crimes have risen since 9-11.  


on 02/10/04 at 00:12:24, rumplestiltskin wrote:
Well.... I just have to disagree. I believe dat ole "christian" Mr. Bush leads the world's largest terrorist group.

Amen to that.  Remember, according to the Administration's precious Patriot Act, the original patriots at the Boston Tea Party would be labeled terrorists for "property destruction for the purpose of spreading a political message."

The reason I belong to the ACLU is *because* they promote free speech - seriously, do a search on the administration's latest "Free Speech Zones."  Detestable.
Title: Re: FW: Muslim Terrorist
Post by jonny on Feb 10th, 2004, 5:41pm
I say we nail the greasy Italians and the booze swiling Irish next....Hell, I might even post the "N" word again...What an explosion of the board that was.....LMMFAO ;;D

STFU...the whole lot of you, to much fucking reading for nothing to me ;;D

........................................jonny
Title: Re: FW: Muslim Terrorist
Post by kim on Feb 10th, 2004, 5:50pm
I will refer to Monty Python's words on an old vinyl album I keep handy...

"NOT THIS RECORD!!!!!!!!!!!!"

....and fer makin us all read this entire fucking thread, I send you all to the abuse room. ::)

..........or.  (LOL) I could send ya to the disgusting sounds room. ;;D

SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP.  After that, shut up again.
Title: Re: FW: Muslim Terrorist
Post by hopefull on Feb 10th, 2004, 7:00pm
isn't this a little over kill!!!
everyone has to many chips on their shoulders...
if your insulted don't continue the thread move on....
I still don't think he meant to insult everyone or some....cut the guy some slack get over it ....your making yourself miserable.....and working yourself up into a cluster doesn't help either.....
I think being politicaly correct sucks!!!!
Title: Re: FW: Muslim Terrorist
Post by Paigelle on Feb 10th, 2004, 7:43pm

on 02/10/04 at 19:00:39, hopefull wrote:
isn't this a little over kill!!!
everyone has to many chips on their shoulders...
if your insulted don't continue the thread move on....
I still don't think he meant to insult everyone or some....cut the guy some slack get over it ....your making yourself miserable.....and working yourself up into a cluster doesn't help either.....
I think being politicaly correct sucks!!!!



This is just what I said earlier!  Stop the madness!!!!!!
Or Hopefull and I are coming after ya!

Paige
Title: Re: FW: Muslim Terrorist
Post by Charlie on Feb 10th, 2004, 8:33pm
Whew.  :o

Finally decided to catch up.  Can't say clusterheads don't pay attention.  Lemme see...It started as much ado about nothing but then......Oh My! Our stuff isn’t meant for the Times. If it were, maybe some of the furor would make more sense. Compared to Jay Leno or David Letterman, this is pretty tame. It just might be that our getting so upset over this is pretty healthy.

I like what I got from an old West Wing episode concerning terrorism: Muslim terrorists are as the Klan is to Christianity.  They represent the nutcases of both. Things are better here because we keep clerics in their place. The middle east is an example of what can happen when politics and religion get confused.

Sorry but without Ted, I have more room. Fun  ;;D

Charlie  8)
Title: Re: FW: Muslim Terrorist
Post by Woobie on Feb 10th, 2004, 10:11pm
Mamma always told me that there are 2 things you never discuss with people -

Religion & Politics

I live by that rule - most of the time.


It's good advice.



tina :-*

and REVDEFORD - you are a wise man.
Title: Re: FW: Muslim Terrorist
Post by athos on Feb 10th, 2004, 11:00pm

Quote:
I will refer to Monty Python's words on an old vinyl album I keep handy...

"NOT THIS RECORD!!!!!!!!!!!!"

....and fer makin us all read this entire fucking thread, I send you all to the abuse room.  

..........or.  (LOL) I could send ya to the disgusting sounds room.  

SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP.  After that, shut up again.


LMAO



I never INTENDED this, but since I started this maybe I should be tried and prosecuted for manslaughter....
Title: Re: FW: Muslim Terrorist
Post by justasound on Feb 10th, 2004, 11:21pm
Since this string is such a pain in the ass to read, I thought I would leave my thoughts on this matter

Clearly, relational information raises serious doubts about a descriptive fact.  Nevertheless, the notion of level of grammaticalness is, apparently, determined by problems of phonemic and morphological analysis. Conversely, any associated supporting element may remedy and, at the same time, eliminate a corpus of utterance tokens upon which conformity has been defined by the paired utterance. Thus a case of semigrammaticalness of a different sort is necessary to impose an interpretation on a stipulation to place the constructions into these various categories.

With this clarification, most of the methodological work in modern linguistics is necessary to impose an interpretation on a parasitic gap construction. On our assumptions, the descriptive power of the base component is not subject to a general convention regarding the forms of the grammar. Summarizing, then, we assume that a subset of English sentences interesting on quite independent grounds suffices to account for nondistinctness in the sense of distinctive feature theory. To characterize a linguistic level, any associated supporting element can be defined in such a way as to impose irrelevant intervening contexts in selectional rules.

Thank you for your time


Lee
Title: Re: FW: Muslim Terrorist
Post by chronic_chic on Feb 10th, 2004, 11:28pm
huh?!

my brain hurts LOL  :P
Title: Re: FW: Muslim Terrorist
Post by Renee on Feb 11th, 2004, 12:03am
OMG...reading all this b.s. over a joke should have all us clusterheads at a kip 10 by now.

Jokes, comedy, the things that make one laugh at others....is just that!  Something to make one laugh at another.

Got any more jokes....I could use another laugh after reading all this b.s.
Title: Re: FW: Muslim Terrorist
Post by katlee on Feb 11th, 2004, 12:51am
i have a headache
Title: Re: FW: Muslim Terrorist
Post by Charlie on Feb 11th, 2004, 6:27am
UH Thanks I guess Lee.....

http://www.netsync.net/users/charlies/gifs/Don't this here.png

Charlie
Title: Re: FW: Muslim Terrorist
Post by SFChris on Feb 11th, 2004, 12:08pm
What people seem to forget is that this is a world wide message board, not just an American board.  So, when people post about how "this society is so PC", or easily offended, please remember this isn't our society - we are part of the Clusterhead world community.  We have family members from all over - anyone here remember a guy named Kimo?  He was one of the nicest, most supportive people on this board.  He also happens to live in Jordan, and wear a turban.  I would be embarrased if he still lurks...

Now that said, I find it perfectly okay to slam terrorists, but it can be done without slamming a religion or a culture.  Just MHO

Peace,
Chris
Title: Re: FW: Muslim Terrorist
Post by athos on Feb 11th, 2004, 1:48pm
I guess my life and view of things are over simplified.  It takes one helluva alot to get under my skin..  A joke is not going to do that.  Outside of my mother in law I can't think of a person that can do it easily... they would have to work at it...

I am responsible for my life not anyone else... I am responsible for what I find offensive.  That is my choice. I cannot force another to be offended or not to be. Well at least I should not be able to.

This collective conscience nonsense is bullshit...  What are we the F**kin BORG?

Do you let someone else dictate how you vote, what groceries that you buy, what music you listen to?  Of course not.

Why then would you let someone so far removed from any rational influence dictate the way that you feel, especially when it was a joke!  If I have that much power over you, that is scary!

Hey Jonny, you have been deposed...  I am now king...  I have the inflential power.....  "By the Power of anecdotal frivolity!!!"
Title: Re: FW: Muslim Terrorist
Post by CJohnson on Feb 11th, 2004, 2:21pm
Racial slur database:
http://www.rsdb.org/

PFDANs
-Curtis
Title: Re: FW: Muslim Terrorist
Post by Brian_Y on Feb 11th, 2004, 3:47pm
When I read this, it comforts me I am 100% misanthropic.  100%.

No prejudice here, you magnificent bastards!!!
Title: Re: FW: Muslim Terrorist
Post by hopefull on Feb 11th, 2004, 4:28pm
*YAWN*
Title: Re: FW: Muslim Terrorist
Post by jonny on Feb 11th, 2004, 5:28pm
Bukakke Warrior?....LMMFYBO ;;D

......................jonny ;;D.....LOL
Title: Re: FW: Muslim Terrorist
Post by forgetfulnot on Feb 12th, 2004, 9:42pm
Longest debate about absolutely nothing I’ve ever seen, the original joke was funny, I don't care what your deal is, unless your from Florida that is.

Lee, good night kids
Title: Re: FW: Muslim Terrorist
Post by stevegeebe on Feb 12th, 2004, 10:09pm
Life is just way too short.

Steve G


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