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(Message started by: Kevin_M on Jan 8^th, 2004, 3:46pm)

Title: Eye exam sees something
Post by Kevin_M on Jan 8^th, 2004, 3:46pm

I went for my every other year eye exam not long ago. The dr gets me in the room and tells me to look straight ahead while he looks into my pupils with a light. Looking in my left (CH) eye, he looks longer, sits back, looks at me and slowly says, " Have you ever had headaches, like bad ones, maybe wake you up at night"? Stunned I stammered, "Yeah, I do. Actually I have clusters, have you heard of them"? He just nods. "I noticed white around a certain area inside your eye".
I don't remember his exact words because I was surprised. He was familiar with clusters and was a bit solumn about it. We just got on with the exam and all that but I really regret asking him what he saw or what it was. I did need stronger prescriptions. Does anyone have a clue or has any telltale signs been noticed by anyones optomitrist? I am going to be sure to ask next time I go back. Are optomitrists trained to know such things and DAMN, what was it he saw. I'm curious as to how an optomitrist can diagnose clusters when most MDs can't, and by looking in your eyes. Kevin

Title: Re: Eye exam sees something
Post by Janzokris on Jan 8^th, 2004, 3:50pm

HI Kevin

I went for an eye test 3 months ago and was told my left eye (CH eye) has detoriated really badly and now I need to wear my glasses all the time when before I only wore them when driving. As I was not aware of CH then I assumed it was because of my general bad health - UC Colitis, back problems etc. but I will mention to him next time I go as I feel my left eye getting worse everyday

Janet

Title: Re: Eye exam sees something
Post by Little Deb on Jan 8^th, 2004, 3:51pm

Dude, don't wait till your next visit!!! Call the office or go back and ASK HIM!!!!!!!

I will be going to the Opthamologist soon, and will see what he says.

little deb

Title: Re: Eye exam sees something
Post by Miklos on Jan 8^th, 2004, 3:54pm

I have never heard of such an observation before. My opthamologist has never suggested anything odd about my eyes except that I needed cataract surgery for both eyes in 1989 and that they are both squinty and beady.

It would be interesting to know what anomaly he noticed. Please call him back and ask; share the answer with us.

Title: Re: Eye exam sees something
Post by Paigelle on Jan 8^th, 2004, 4:00pm

Use to work for an optometrist! Sometimes the white spots around the back of the eye will show nerve damage or tears. In diabetics, white spots sometimes are where the vessels in the eye break and bleed. Now for the scariest part, I hate to say this, but I this is something that I have to accept as what could be a part of my life. When there are alot of "white spots" it could be a sign of macular degeneration. My grandmother, who had CH but hasn't had an attack in years, has macular degeneration and is now considered legally blind. Macular degeneration is definitely hereditary, but you can takes steps to prevent it. With eye problems, you need to take a supplement with lutein in it. You can also get lutein from spinach and other greens. Call your doctor back and see what is going on. It is your vision and it is something if lost, you probably won't ever get it back.

Title: Re: Eye exam sees something
Post by ClusterChuck on Jan 8^th, 2004, 4:08pm

on 01/08/04 at 15:54:23, Miklos wrote:

they are both squinty and beady.

Nope, ain't a gonna do it. Too easy ... Damn, Maybe I should? Nope WAY too easy a target!

Kevin, my eye doctor has noticed a white spot on the back of my eye, also. He says it is not changing (for me) as he has watched it for the past 5 years. BUT, he never mentioned the headaches! Very interested in why your doctor imediately asked about the headaches!

BTW, thirty lashes with a wet noddle for not asking when you were there!!! AND you now have to stand TWO watches at your spot on the oar! (Wait until Cottie gets ahold of you!) Get in position!

Chuck

Title: Re: Eye exam sees something
Post by Woobie on Jan 8^th, 2004, 4:08pm

I agree... call him back - tell him it's been bothering you and you wanna know again

that's interesting!!

tina

Title: Re: Eye exam sees something
Post by LasVegas on Jan 8^th, 2004, 4:16pm

Two months ago I went to the eye doc to get a new script for my glasses. Haven't been there in three years and no changes at all. The doc had a new machine which you look into and it photographs the interior of the eye for disorders not able to be seen without this machine. Nothing to report but good news. Furthermore, no significant deterioration of my CH (left) eye vs the right one. Maybe i'm blessed.
Gregg in Las Vegas

Title: Re: Eye exam sees something
Post by Kevin_M on Jan 8^th, 2004, 4:43pm

I do regret not responding with my usual curiosity. I guess it was because I was there for something completely different and it threw me.
I go to some big chain outfit and they just assign you a doctor that works for their chain. He may have come from another store. Anyway, you guys have got on me enough, I'm going to try. I am sure they have on their records the Dr who examined me. I will go back and ask. I don't know the odds of talking to that same Dr., they may just have me talk to whoever is on duty and the answer may not be the same.
I knew when he asked me if "they were really bad ones that I had been woken up at night with". That told me he was being specific.
I will go back and try to speak with him, but realize I'm expecting really good customer service from a chain store outfit. I can be politely persistant.

Title: Re: Eye exam sees something
Post by Bob_Johnson on Jan 8^th, 2004, 4:48pm

A few months ago someone asked about the relationship of eye disease and cluster. I did a quick check on PubMed revealed such a broad range of eye disorders which CAN lead to headache (not necessarily cluster) that it's only possible to say: follow-up with an M.D. eye doc.

Title: Re: Eye exam sees something
Post by Kevin_M on Jan 8^th, 2004, 5:02pm

Well, whatever he saw, I'm not thinking its a cause, more of an effect. The point was, the accurate assumption he made with what he saw. His one question he asked after looking inside was right on the money. I've never had that accurate a question asked after one look from a completely strange doctor. Believe me, it would have floored any one of you. I was speechless with curiousity as to how he decided to ask that question.
And thanks, I was looking for that word, opthamologist.

Title: Re: Eye exam sees something
Post by Little Deb on Jan 8^th, 2004, 5:02pm

I don't know how to do those quotie things....

"I can be politely persistent"???????

Be a f'n bastard if you have to- and track HIS ass down!! Along as he is still alive- you CAN and SHOULD talk to HIM!!! You have a phone book?? Meet him at his front door!! Do not take no for an answer!

being as politely persistent as my patience will allow...little deb ;;D

Title: Re: Eye exam sees something
Post by Kevin_M on Jan 8^th, 2004, 5:04pm

Paigelle,
Thanks for the insight.

Title: Re: Eye exam sees something
Post by Little Deb on Jan 8^th, 2004, 5:12pm

Hey Kevin M-New board newbie, your profile doesn't show your location....where are you??

No, I'm not coming after you!!!LOL!! Just curious in case you are close to Raleigh for the get together.

sweet, gentle and kind...little deb [smiley=heart.gif]

Title: Re: Eye exam sees something
Post by Kevin_M on Jan 8^th, 2004, 5:31pm

Thought I did a profile back in January 2001 when I found this place. Been here off and on, mostly when it was in old board format. Detroit, Deb.

Title: Re: Eye exam sees something
Post by Little Deb on Jan 8^th, 2004, 5:43pm

Oh! Good! Then you are only about 14 hrs away! See ya Jan. 31st in Raleigh!!!

where there is a will.....little deb

Title: Re: Eye exam sees something
Post by FrankW on Jan 8^th, 2004, 6:03pm

Hi Kevin

Was going to comment on the Pet peeve thread that I just told my mother that I had clusters only to get the response that my sister had been diagnosed with that and had to lie down in a dark room to deal with them.

Point is she also said the headaches she remembers me having as a kid were thought to be something to with missing color pigments in my eyes. Some optician claimed that when they were looking for the cause.

Even while suffering the only eye trouble I ever have is one of them drooping - 'cept now when my arms are getting shorter.

So I also ask to please call and find out what he is talking about!!

Frank

Title: Re: Eye exam sees something
Post by eyes_afire on Jan 8^th, 2004, 9:20pm

From the Medical Info:

Quote:

A transitory, partial Horner's syndrome (pupillary miosis and lid ptosis) occurs in two-thirds of patients when they are examined during attacks (Ekbom, 1970a) and is a useful sign in the differential diagnosis of facial pain. It is highly characteristic of the cluster headache syndrome and, after repeated occurrences, it may become a permanent feature (Riley and Moyer, 1971; Nieman and Hurwitz, 1961).

Is 'pupil miosis' what your doc observed?

http://home.att.net/~witchfinder/confused_smiley.gif

--- Steve

Title: Re: Eye exam sees something
Post by Kevin_M on Jan 8^th, 2004, 9:40pm

Eyes,
That would be one good damn guess I'd say. That bit of good research you did from that old accumulation of knowledge seems highly probable. Thank you for sharing that. I am very willing to bet that is what was recognized by the eye exam.
I'm not familiar with the medical terms used but I'd believe that would accurately be what was gathered by the good doc, who somehow seems to have read or come across similar or the same reading. So glad you allayed much question about it. Where did you find that, it seems like interesting stuff. :o Thanks.

Title: Re: Eye exam sees something
Post by Kevin_M on Jan 8^th, 2004, 9:44pm

Eyes,
Horner's syndrome, I wrote that down. I'm sure I can find something on that somewhere. Thanks again. ;)

Title: Re: Eye exam sees something
Post by t_h_b on Jan 8^th, 2004, 10:11pm

Kevin, please track down that opthamologist. They absolutely have his name on your record from that visit.

I can't find anything about white spots or degeneration other than permanent miosis and ptosis. This could be something that we don't know about.

Also, I wonder HOW he knows about this. Does he have other cluster patients? Does he have clusters? The way he asked you about them makes it sound like he didn't expect you to know that they're called clusters.

It certainly makes sense that something that affects the eye in such a big way (pain, miosis, ptosis, photophobia, tearing, pain, pain, pain) could cause permanent damage.

Title: Re: Eye exam sees something
Post by Kevin_M on Jan 8^th, 2004, 10:54pm

Yep, it's right there, where Steve (eyes) says it is, under medical info at the left. Look under associated features. I wrote down the author's names and will see what the local library has, and if not, the community college has on hand, and if not the medical library at Wayne State. It is an apparent state of affairs that happens when one has been suffering with clusters for a time.
This should be a way to help confirm that a person may be suffering from clusters and also help in not wasting time guessing. This should be more well known. Again though, remember this is an uncommon occurance for a dr to run across and perhaps a minor part of schooling. Many would be drs probably would think they would never be tested to diagnose clusters muchless finding this symptom, which they would refer to an opthamologist, who would not treat a cluster patient. Finding a clue in the eye pupil would not be what any normal md would look for. Most mds would have too big an ego to take a diagnosis from an eye doctor. So we are left with unbelieving mds which we go to for help.
That medical info is perhaps hard to come by. Glad it was here. I don't like reading medical info because of all the big words, but this symptom would perhaps not leave much doubt about the probability of the presence of clusters.
Cheers for the guys who did these studies and came to the conclusions they did about their findings.
My nephew is in medical college, I am going to find one of these books, find the parts described at left, have him read it and FULLY explain this stuff to me.
Again, it's no answer to the problem, but quite an important way to start progressing with a medical program for helping someone who walks into an mds office for help. And again, finding ways of coping with it, well, that's another hard look.
Communication between the medical communities about this would have surely have helped many from wondering what's wrong, and their dr not knowing either.
Thanks Steve for pointing out this out. Those sounded like interesting studies. Diagnosing is a part of the problem with clusters too.
Kevin

Title: Re: Eye exam sees something
Post by Little Deb on Jan 8^th, 2004, 11:03pm

[smiley=huh.gif]

..............................lil' deb

Title: Re: Eye exam sees something
Post by Renee on Jan 8^th, 2004, 11:05pm

Kevin,

PLEASE go after find that opthamologist!

My left (CH) eye's vision has got significantly worse since my CH became chronic.

We really want to know more about how he knew you suffered by looking in your eye!!

PLEASE
Renee

Title: Re: Eye exam sees something
Post by Rick_K on Jan 9^th, 2004, 12:18am

It should be no problem to find that guy after all he was your doc and they have a license.

Let us know...my eyesite seems to gets worse after each cycle and I thought it was just old fartdom :)

fartdom....fartdomn...fartdum...fartdumb? however it's spelled ;;D

Title: Re: Eye exam sees something
Post by Kevin_M on Jan 9^th, 2004, 12:20am

Sure, I will, but I'll bet the answer is right on the left

<<<<< under medical info, that Horner's syndrome would be noticeable upon inspection. Actually, on my large information inquiry page that I filled out while waiting, had many, many things to check off that you may suffer from. I had checked off headaches because there was no space for clusters. I didn't check off any hereditary problems with the eyes, or diabetes. That would narrow down the causes, being that he reviewed my questionaire.
With the info on the left, clusters would be a good stab, if a doctor was familiar with them. We are simply not used to ANY doctor being familiar with clusters so when one is, it's so surprising. Besides, an opthamologist would be more familiar with these findings than a regular doc. Perhaps what he saw may have been clearly due to trauma caused by the nerves affecting the eyes. Since I only checked off headaches as the only eye history on my questionaire, what he saw may be only caused by clusters because its not caused by migraines. I say it was a good informed question by a doctor who does his homework.
It's not that mysterious now, but hearing what the eye doc has to say would be informative.

Deb, why the sad, confused little face? I don't write very coherently sometimes when many ideas are suddenly flowing. I reread my last input and it is hard to follow, not well written. Sorry. :)

Title: Re: Eye exam sees something
Post by Little Deb on Jan 9^th, 2004, 12:48am

I understood your post, Kevin.

Now please, stop reading, and go find that doc.

Or just give me his name and number.

We really want to know what HE said. And WHY.

My eyes are getting worse, too, especially on the affected side.

little deb

Title: Re: Eye exam sees something
Post by nancyc on Jan 9^th, 2004, 1:03am

The last time I went to the Eye Doc who knows I have chs, ask me if anyone had ever told me that one of my pupils was larger than the other....I told him I was aware of this...THe other day, one of my Alzheimer patients who I thought was pretty much end stage Alzheimers, informed while giving him his nightly meds, that one of my eyes was larger than the other...Noone else has ever noticed this...then he told me the reason for this was because one of my boobies was pulling the other eye down...Then, I realized he really is end stage Alzheimers after all but has a great sense of humor still...Gotta love my patients! ;;Dnancyc

Title: Re: Eye exam sees something
Post by Kevin_M on Jan 9^th, 2004, 1:24am

So THAT'S what your face meant. Gotcha. Sorry, couldn't do that tonight though. Was just thinking out loud. Thanks for the clarity. :-X No more loud thinking.

Nancy, nice to hear from you again. See you have the same sense of humor. I think I still have your e-mail address from years ago. ;)

Title: Re: Eye exam sees something
Post by Renee on Jan 9^th, 2004, 10:46am

Kevin,

Have you called the opthamologist yet?

We are all patiently waiting!

PLEASE ;;D

Title: Re: Eye exam sees something
Post by Paigelle on Jan 9^th, 2004, 1:25pm

Uh Kevin - have you talked to the doctor yet? We get very impatient waiting around here you know. [smiley=bunnybash.gif]

Title: Re: Eye exam sees something
Post by Kevin_M on Jan 9^th, 2004, 2:43pm

First attempt.
I stopped in, talked with one of the girls their. Explained at my last exam the dr noticed something in my eye and questioned me refering to cluster headaches and that I would wish to speak with that doctor concerning what he saw.
She turned to another person and asked if they were being helped and I went and sat by where she was working on the computer. I casually mentioned he caught something during my exam and ... "I'll be right with you sir," she replied.
I sat, waited, then she addresses me again and says "what was that again?"
I asked her about the doctor who examined me and if it would be possible to speak with him. She got my file and looked and said, "Oh he's not here today, there's nothing here on your exam, he made no notes about whatever you're talking about." Duh.
Well, I explained again about him recognizing I had clusters and wished to know what he saw and how he came to ask me that.
"Well there is another dr here, but she's with someone. Maybe she can answer your question. What was your question? I'll right it down, ask her, and I'll give you a call about it."
Not quite what I was looking for. However, without him there, the best I could get today would be a call from them. I asked if it would be the doctor who would call because maybe there would be some medical terms which would need to be understood. "I'll give her this note later and we'll give you a call."
I am waiting for the bitch to call now. I will call back in a couple of hours.
This is the type of service I expected, but this was the first try. So in other words, no progress yet. I'll get try again later and tomorrow.
I know this is not what you've been waiting for. I'll write again.

Title: Re: Eye exam sees something
Post by Renee on Jan 9^th, 2004, 3:13pm

Kevin,

Thank you so much for the update!

Please keep trying and keep us in touch!

Don't let them take "NO" as an answer.

It is so frustrating to have to deal with the medical industry!! >:(

renee

Title: Re: Eye exam sees something
Post by Paigelle on Jan 9^th, 2004, 3:22pm

Do you want me to come and speak with that office staff? They don't want me to do that, I know that. Go back there or call and ask for the damn office manager. You have every right to know why he asked you about CH and what he saw.

Now hop to it!

Title: Re: Eye exam sees something
Post by Charlie on Jan 9^th, 2004, 4:28pm

Interesting: Eyes take a beating with CH. Maybe this is an effect rather than a cause. Interesting in any event.

How about telling this Ophthalmologist's crew that you are affiliated with OUCH. You never know.

Let us know.

Charlie

Title: Re: Eye exam sees something
Post by ave on Jan 9^th, 2004, 4:34pm

That's too many difficult words in one sentence, for that type of girl!

She'll probably think Kevin is saying he is afflicted with SARS or something.

Caaaaareful there.

Title: Re: Eye exam sees something
Post by Paigelle on Jan 9^th, 2004, 4:35pm

on 01/09/04 at 16:34:20, ave wrote:

That's too many difficult words in one sentence, for that type of girl!

She'll probably think Kevin is saying he is afflicted with SARS or something.

Caaaaareful there.

I have to agree with this!

Title: Re: Eye exam sees something
Post by Dave_Emond on Jan 9^th, 2004, 5:18pm

I completley agree follow up needs to be done, and Kevin is trying best he can.
Thought I'd add a note here. Probably for the last 6 months or more, I've been having strange vision problems. However, only right before, during and after CH attacks. Most of the time only on my right eye (CH side), but sometimes both. Being Chronic, I do sometimes have attacks on the left, but not that often.
Plus these vision problems come in different forms.
The most common is in the CH eye, I'll try to explain this best I can. You know the little screen you'd find in the tap of your water facet? Yeah ... my vision looks as if I had put one in like a contact lens, pretty wierd.
Next is double vision in both eyes, was at one time clear double vision, but is becoming more blurry lately.
Then, of course the light show. Many colors moving about kinda like looking through a Kliediscope.
Thing is, when not in heavy shadows or under attacks, I have extremely good vision!
This makes me think these tricks on the eyes are an affect of the CH. How many can say we haven't been quite BRUTAL to our eyes during CH attacks? We press hard on the eye, I've even frozen my right eye years back in a moment of stupidity pressing ice so hard and for so long on my eye. I've done the same pressure with extreme heat, scalding my face but fortunately don't think I damaged the eye.
How many have put that thumb pushing on their eye during an attack? How about a good knuckle grinding?
We may very well be doing this to ourselves, even knowing that possiblity, can't say I can always keep myself from doing it. (Except the ice!)
Whether this is a cause or effect, it is something worth really looking into. Whatever Kevin and this doctor may have come across, certainly needs our attention.
I may have got a chuckle out of the "eye color" survey, but this is quite different and warrants research.
Thanks for bringing something new to the table Kevin, please continue to follow up as much as you can.
Others? Have a opportunity to see an opthamologist?
Kevin, out of interest, episodic or chronic? How long?
Thanks,
Dave

Title: Re: Eye exam sees something
Post by Prense on Jan 9^th, 2004, 5:37pm

on 01/09/04 at 17:18:19, Dave_Emond wrote:

How many have put that thumb pushing on their eye during an attack? How about a good knuckle grinding?

EVERY ATTACK!!

Oddly, my eyesight tested better than 20/20 (didn't know that was possible) during my last visit with no abnormal findings. I have never had vision problems...auras or anything (before, during or after attacks)

Chris

Title: Re: Eye exam sees something
Post by Kevin_M on Jan 9^th, 2004, 6:06pm

Ok, no call back, so I call and get the same girl on the line. "I haven't had the time to give her the note yet, we are really busy, but I'll try to see about it soon."
Well, I said, "That doctor I saw, will he be in tomorrow?"
"Ah, no, actually he doesn't work here and isn't suppose to be here again as far as I know."
"Where is he from," I asked.
"Dr. Breeza? He works out at Lakeside Mall"
Thank you deary, I thought, now I don't have to talk with you ANYMORE.
Called the store he works at, got a really GOOD customer service person named Brandon who gave me the time to ask my story and took down all the information and would have Dr. Breeza call me after he had my exam notes faxed over for him to read.
Fifteen minutes later I get a call.
Being an eye doc, he has familiarity with headaches he says.
In my case, when he shown the light, the light refracted in a different direction which would be due to the lens of my eye being mishapen. That was a clue in conjunction with the white spots. My eyes showed the development of presbyopia. I have not looked up any of these terms just reporting back. Also, the prescription I had was inadequate for me to see 20 20, though I was 20 20 with them a not long ago. That would increase stress. And there was development of astigmatism, which he said my neuro would be familiar with. There has been some sort of extreme stress showing which was more than not being able to see
20 20. This sort of development over the short period of time since my last exam meant something was causing this. I had also just recently gotten into bifocals, but my short sight, reading distance, had changed the most. Quite a change in fact. My history didn't show this kind of change in the past. A natural decline in eyesight can occur with age, but the light defraction and white spots was a recent occurrance due to...what? He sees lots of eyes everyday and the difference from one eye to the other was not usual. These symptoms showed up in my left eye, which is my CH side. One side differential of more stress on one side than the other, with related decline of sight on that side was saying something else was in the works.
That's all I got.
This may not be what you were looking for or expected but that's the story.
Sorry I wasn't back to you sooner, this is my day off and I take care of my 94 year grandmother who lives nearby by herself. She lives for this day to be taken out shopping and for my visit. Also, my brother had recent bypass surgury and had infection problems and called and needed to be taken back to the hospital. I sat with him until my other brother showed up and I left for a while. Early this morning I had a dentist appointment and have also fought off three visits by "it" so far today during my waking hours.
This doc was just a good doc doing his job, but he wanted to keep his nose out of other docs business and didn't wish to stick his neck out too far, especially since I mentioned seeing a neuro and other md regarding the headaches. He wished to bow out and not over extend his reach. He said your neuro should be able to take it from there and to continue with your neuro's recommendations. He said he made an observation, not a diagnosis, ok. The headache stuff discussed is not on my exam notes.

Title: Re: Eye exam sees something
Post by Jayne on Jan 9^th, 2004, 6:14pm

http://www.kellogg.umich.edu/conditions/refractive/astigmatism.html

Title: Re: Eye exam sees something
Post by Kevin_M on Jan 9^th, 2004, 6:16pm

Let this be a lesson in asking questions while in the presence of the doc. Seeing one or getting to talk with one without an appointment is frustrating. Do it while you are there. I'm episodic, twice a year for about three months at a time now.

Title: Re: Eye exam sees something
Post by Jayne on Jan 9^th, 2004, 6:16pm

http://www.kellogg.umich.edu/conditions/refractive/presbyopia.html

Title: Re: Eye exam sees something
Post by t_h_b on Jan 9^th, 2004, 6:20pm

Thank you, Kevin. Now we have something we can ask our opthamologists to look at.

My vision has become "uncorrectable" in my cluster eye but I never made a connection with the clusters.

Title: Re: Eye exam sees something
Post by Mark C on Jan 9^th, 2004, 7:04pm

Kevin do you use Imitrex? It builds in the tissues of the eye over time. I wonder if this is related.

Corneal Opacities: Dogs receiving oral sumatriptan developed corneal opacities and defects in the corneal epithelium. Corneal opacities were seen at the lowest dosage tested, 2 mg/kg/day, and were present after 1 month of treatment.

Melanin Binding: In rats with a single subcutaneous dose (0.5 mg/kg) of radiolabeled sumatriptan, the elimination half-life of radioactivity from the eye was 15 days, suggesting that sumatriptan and its metabolites bind to the melanin of the eye. The clinical significance of this binding is unknown.

Binding to Melanin-Containing Tissues: Because sumatriptan binds to melanin, it could accumulate in melanin-rich tissues (such as the eye) over time. This raises the possibility that sumatriptan could cause toxicity in these tissues after extended use. However, no effects on the retina related to treatment with sumatriptan were noted in any of the toxicity studies. Although no systematic monitoring of ophthalmologic function was undertaken in clinical trials, and no
specific recommendations for ophthalmologic function was undertaken in clinical trials, and no specific recommendations for ophthalmologic monitoring are offered, prescribers should be aware of the possibility of long-term ophthalmologic effects

Imitrex Info (http://us.gsk.com/products/assets/us_imitrex_injection.pdf');)

PFDAN's
Mark

Title: Re: Eye exam sees something
Post by Kevin_M on Jan 9^th, 2004, 7:16pm

In retrospect, I don't see where this doc said anything but regular eye doc talk. But his astute putting together of facts and knowledge of what is in his opinion regular development of presbyopia and astigmatism at my age, and of the difference of their development between each eye led him to see something more than just being there to sell me glasses and tinting and denote the favorable results from lasar surgery these days. A very good putting together of facts from observation and coming up with a theory. This is just good science work. I would not discount the knowledge already accumulated on this
board in favor of one astute doctor. We wish they were all this attentive, but this is a good example of applying years of knowledge and doing a good job. Professionals like this are truly respectful and proof you
can find doctors you can thank heartfelt when leaving, He made the leap in cognition which we wish we could encounter more often, however he realizes how far he can take his job and when to know he's been helpful and done what he can. Beyond that, we should be in the hands of other competent drs who deal with this.
Appreciate the difference between information and
knowledge. Put succinctly, info is a body of facts, whereas knowledge is the understanding of what those
facts mean.
"If I have seen further, it is by standing on the shoulder of giants." - Newton
"We cannot properly concetualize what we cannot express." - Bacon
Knowledge is not a transfer of true information but a personal construction of reality.
All great science seeks not proofs but coherence. Newton had no proof the earth moved or that the sun
was the center of the planetary system. Science doesn't march ahead by proofs, science advances by coherency.
Science is not about what is known, but about what is knowable.

Title: Re: Eye exam sees something
Post by Kevin_M on Jan 9^th, 2004, 7:32pm

Mark,
Thank you for the info and the link. While "it" is in gear, for about three months, I infact overuse Imitrex. Another piece to the puzzle. Thank you all for the education I've received in this thread. Very good insights have been brought to my attention, which let slip by because of periodically leaving this site. There is really good info here and REALLY GOOD people.
Kevin.