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        New Message Board Archives >> 2004 Cluster Headache Specific Posts >> what can or cant a ch eat?
        
(Message started by: snook on Sep 17^th, 2004, 6:36pm)

Title: what can or cant a ch eat?
Post by snook on Sep 17^th, 2004, 6:36pm

:-[ :P my husband is so afraid to eat certain foods does anyone know : what a ch should avoid, im not talking booze or butts that we know it would be soo helpful hes getting so thin for fear of triggering the beast thanks all info will help!!!!!

Title: Re: what can or cant a ch eat?
Post by Giovanni on Sep 17^th, 2004, 6:43pm

Everybody a little different. Booze will trigger a CH during cycle (most people). The smell of gasoline gets to me. I haven't noticed in particular any type of food. I'm sure that other people might have some food triggers during their cycle--I do not appear to be one of them.

John

Title: Re: what can or cant a ch eat?
Post by IndianaJohn on Sep 17^th, 2004, 7:30pm

Alcohol is a big one. I have found that food high in tannins will trigeer a headache for me i.e. bacon, deli meats, soy sauce. Also try to avoid foods with high amounts of MSG or preservatives.

Fresh produce and meats are ok I think.

Hope he gets some relief soon.

John

Title: Re: what can or cant a ch eat?
Post by yikes_another_one on Sep 17^th, 2004, 7:32pm

Just like new parents, you will have to take one food at a time and not eat it for an entire week to figure out if there is trouble with it. Journal what and when you eat,
and even how much....

that's how doctors clue into food allergies.

you may want to investigate the preservatives on the hotdogs or other prepared meats... that is a known trigger for migraine and other headaches....

as far as CH, well, I used to think Hot dogs would do it, until I ate them and didn't get an attack. At one point I thought tunafish.... but again, not a direct relationship...

My mom thought chocolate was doing it,
but I convinced her it wasn't, hahaha...

I know people who avoid exercise and who drink lots of water to avoid dehydration.... all to escape the attacks... but they are tricky, and come and go whenever they want to.

Mine are weather related, which you think would become predictable... any change in the weather, and I should have an attack...but one month it causes pain, the next month the same type of storm doesn't even make me wince....

so, as far as food or any other triggers, well I am doubtful... Even with a great headache journal... writing what food ate, and what the weather was like... I have had the episodes for the last 5 years, with no direct pattern or predictable senerios....

Good luck, keep tracking!
TJ

Title: Re: what can or cant a ch eat?
Post by bluesunshine on Sep 18^th, 2004, 1:05am

I eat what i want to. no exception, no food trigger

I drink what i want to, but if it is alcool (when in cycle-very important), i have to drink, let's say 3-4 beer (5.6% alcohol in canada) in less than 35-45min to "bypass" the shadow leadind to ..the CHl-DRINK FAST AND HARD.

Title: Re: what can or cant a ch eat?
Post by Jonny on Sep 18^th, 2004, 1:40am

Tell him to eat whatever he wants, if he gets a HA avoid what he just ate....its a no brainer

.................................jonny

Title: Re: what can or cant a ch eat?
Post by Karla on Sep 18^th, 2004, 6:59am

I can eat whatever I want :D

Title: Re: what can or cant a ch eat?
Post by floridian on Sep 18^th, 2004, 8:44am

There is a lot of debate on diet and little to no scientific evidence. That makes it hard to give specifics, other than listen to your body, maybe keep a food diary.

on 09/17/04 at 19:30:37, IndianaJohn wrote:

I have found that food high in tannins will trigeer a headache for me i.e. bacon, deli meats, soy sauce. Also try to avoid foods with high amounts of MSG or preservatives.

Fresh produce and meats are ok I think.

Hope he gets some relief soon.

John

Bacon and processed meat are high in nitrites or nitrates - and those chemicals have been shown to trigger many people. Whether or not someone is susceptible to the amount of nitrite in a hot dog is probably an individual thing. Not sure that those meats have more 'tanin' than other foods.

MSG is a commonly mentioned trigger - it's not only a food additive, its a neurotransmitter!! And that neurotransmitter is overproduced in CH and is involved in pain transmission. Soy sauce is a good source of MSG.

Title: Re: what can or cant a ch eat?
Post by jmorgan52 on Sep 20^th, 2004, 4:11am

LOL Jonny - If you are in cycle and keep getting CH then should you just stop eating to avoid the HA?

My simple advice. Don't eat processed food or anything with additives during a CH cycle. If it comes in a packet or a jar or a tin or a can or a bottle - AVOID IT.

Stick to fresh fruit, vegetables, salads and free range chicken, eggs, fish, olive oil, nuts.

That still gives lots of scope for eating well while avoiding most know triggers.

John

Title: Re: what can or cant a ch eat?
Post by synergy on Sep 20^th, 2004, 6:01am

Marcs proberly eating all the wrong stuff - but as he's chronic it doesnt make much difference! We have gone through everything he eats and drinks in the past but could never find a connection.

Good luck though!

luv sarah xx

Title: Re: what can or cant a ch eat?
Post by E-Double on Sep 20^th, 2004, 9:33am

I have heard so many different stories.
I think like everything else, it will depend on his own body chemistry.

Personally, I have yet to identify any triggers from food that I am aware of.
I even had my first full beer since May on Saturday night and felt no worse (Yippee) so I had another with a smile.

The only trigger that seems to be consistent is being stressed over my upcoming wedding. LOL. J/K

Have him eat what he wants and if a pattern develops then you might have identified one. Until then enjoy life as much as you guys can ;)

E.

Title: Re: what can or cant a ch eat?
Post by Ueli on Sep 20^th, 2004, 7:59pm

The important thing to remember is that a possible trigger
a) gives an extra CH attack, one in addition to the usual schedule, and
b) acts very fast, e.g. almost immediately for a smell, minutes for alcohol, about 15 - 60 minutes for something eaten, depending on the preparation (with something fatty it's in the longer range).

If something you ate, drank or smelled didn't cause an attack within 2 hours, it can be considered save.

Beware of people who are taking about the Meegraine trigger list. This list may help M people to identify a trigger, but it is quite useless for a clusterhead. For M a trigger is considered to have a latency up to 24 hours, but as said above, for a clusterhead triggers are effective as soon they get in the system.

I don't think that any special diet (besides avoiding identified triggers) can reduce CH.
But if you want to follow John's diet plan make sure that your fruit, vegetables, salads, nuts and olive oil are free from residues of insecticides, herbicides, fungicides, pesticides, and also are free from remnants of natural and artificial fertilizer. (Those nice crispy salads you buy in the supermarket can be full of nitrates, a potent trigger for meegraines and a few clusterheads.) For the chicken and eggs make sure they are free of hormones and antibiotics. Running around to find some fish that didn't swim in industrial, domestic or agricultural waste will give you some much needed exercise. ;;D

PFNADs, Ueli [smiley=smokin.gif]

Title: Re: what can or cant a ch eat?
Post by Charlie on Sep 20^th, 2004, 9:29pm

These guys have a lot of experience so pay attention. I had no food triggers I konw of. MSG is considered one though.

Be prudent but don't drive yourself nuts. Some things just don't fall into neat little categories and some just don't play by the rules. CH heads the list from where I sit.

Don't go off the deep end but use your head. Damn I wish we could pin it down to food triggers only. My last CH attack was 1991 and the only thing different is that I drink much stronger coffee..and gallons of the stuff.

Good luck and don't be afraid.

Charlie

Title: Re: what can or cant a ch eat?
Post by bean on Sep 21^st, 2004, 6:18pm

I've had clusters for 20 years now, and this is what I've found.

DON'T EATS:

1. Chocolate

2. Soy Sauce- Miso, Tamari, Shoyu, etc.

3. MSG- this stuff is everywhere, you have to read the labels on EVERYTHING. But once you get the hang of it, it's not so hard. Canned soups, packaged soups, chips, fish sticks, frozen dinners, etc. Basically anything with flavor added. But once you get the hang of it, it becomes routine and you know which brands to buy.
Plus ask the pizza parlor you get pizza from if it's in the sauce.

4. Cigarrettes- fuck healthy, that's another site. This is about cluster headaches, and even being in the same room as someone who smokes will make me have one. Mabye not instantly, but within a few days. His choice.
It's not just me, either. There have been posts here where someone who worked in a bar quit, and their headaches were reduced in intensity.

5. Alcohol- wine, beer, hard stuff, everything.

6. Aged cheese- Bleu, gorgonzola, parmegon, etc. Even american to a lesser extent. And the parmegon in the states is not the real stuff, but I've found it to be better to only eat it once in a while.

7. Coffee

8. Soft drinks with caffiene- I don't know if it's the brown coloring or the caffiene, or both, 'cause a Mountain Dew gave me a HA one time, but pop is out.

9. Saurkraut, pickles- have noticed they will give me shadows.

10. Vegemite, marmite- only valid in UK or Australia.

I think this is a pretty complete list. If you notice, a lot of the products are aged or fermented. Plus they have tannins.

And as for triggers, I can only remember a couple times when something actually triggered a HA. What I've found is that these are more like an activator. When I consume enough of these foods, something tips the balance and I'm fucked. It doesn't take much of some of it, either.

Everything else is fair game, though. Ask him to try it if he wants and see if the HA's don't decrease. Report back with findings. :]

Title: Re: what can or cant a ch eat?
Post by Kris_in_SJ on Sep 21^st, 2004, 8:09pm

I'm sure glad I don't have the list of trigger foods you do, Bean!

We're all different. Like already mentioned, keep a diary and avoid the foods that immediately trigger a HA. I've never found food in any form to be a trigger - thank goodness - I love to eat!

Kris

Title: Re: what can or cant a ch eat?
Post by EmpressJMB on Sep 22^nd, 2004, 10:22am

I have found no food triggers. Beer seems to be the worst trigger I have. :(I love beer. Also, change in barometric pressure and perfume. I can't wear it and it amazes me how much perfume people slop on themselves. Good Luck!

Title: Re: what can or cant a ch eat?
Post by bean on Sep 27^th, 2004, 1:20pm

on 09/21/04 at 20:09:20, Kris_in_SJ wrote:

Well see, this is where it gets tricky... I would call some of these foods triggers, because I HAVE drank a mountain dew and then 15 minutes later had a ha, same for chocolate, but what I think is that these foods SET YOU UP TO BE IN CYCLE... Its diabolical.

Triggers, no triggers; someone brought it up a while ago. I cant remember the exact terminology they used, it was something like promoters, instigators, propagators, I dont remember. But it was a refinement on the concept of triggers.

Title: Re: what can or cant a ch eat?
Post by BlueMeanie on Sep 27^th, 2004, 2:32pm

This is a very tricky topic. It is a known fact that all Clusterheads are different as to what they can or can't eat. And what meds work and doesn't work. It seems that the Beast figures us all out sooner or later. I've taken prevents that stopped CH's for a few days, was all excited thinking THAT'S IT. We'll they would come back. I'd try another med, THAT'S IT. They would come back.

Then I started the food list. Eat a banana, get a CH. Stopped eating them, no CH. THAT'S IT. They would come back. Then chocolate, they'd come back, then hot dogs. THAT'S IT. Then they'd come back.

So my experience is that just because you get a CH after you eat something, until you PROOVE that it is in fact a trigger, don't assume THAT'S IT. When you think what you ate is a trigger, wait a few days and eat it again. EVERYTIME i tired that, I would NOT get a CH after trying it again.

We get sooo many CH's in a day, it's easy to think what you ate is the culpret. Same goes for exercise and all the other things people say are triggers.

My known triggers are aromas. Any smell of hair spray, body oils, gasoline, plug in air freshners and such. If you go out to eat with your lady or significant other, it just may be the smell of all those heavenly bodies with perfume and hairspray on and NOT the food. Alcohol is my only other known trigger other than aromas.

Title: Re: what can or cant a ch eat?
Post by jmorgan52 on Sep 27^th, 2004, 3:21pm

Despite my list of things to avoid during a CH cycle, my only known "trigger" is alcohol. But if I avoid it, it sure a hell does not stop me getting CH attacks. What it does do is allow me the opportunity to enjoy a lunch with friends or a night out with a reduced chance of getting struck down with a CH than if I imbibed. The bastard CHs still come during the night or in the morning or whatever other time it chooses!

The problem with the "triggers list" is that in my opinion it may not be the "direct trigger" that is the problem for some. It may just be many months of slow build up of certain types of food (additives, etc) and other stuff that gets into our bodies that trigger a cycle. Maybe when the cycle is over, this "stuff" in our bodies has become depleted enough for the CH to stop for a while until the next time there is enough in our body to start the cycle again.

Food for thought.
John

Title: Re: what can or cant a ch eat?
Post by bean on Sep 30^th, 2004, 6:43pm

on 09/27/04 at 15:21:45, jmorgan52 wrote:

The problem with the "triggers list" is that in my opinion it may not be the "direct trigger" that is the problem for some. It may just be many months of slow build up of certain types of food (additives, etc) and other stuff that gets into our bodies that trigger a cycle. Maybe when the cycle is over, this "stuff" in our bodies has become depleted enough for the CH to stop for a while until the next time there is enough in our body to start the cycle again.

Food for thought.
John

Exactly. When I used to get ha's when I was a kid, the day after, my mom would take me to my grandma's house, where I would always eat consumme soup, which had MSG in it. No HA. But I know MSG is a trigger and promoter because I've eaten a pizza with L-glutamic acid in it to see if it was just another name for MSG, and ZAP! big HA.

There might need to be a revision on the concept of triggers. Instant triggers, which instantly cause ha's,and promoters, which make you suseptable(sp?) to be in cycle. They can overlap and be the same foods, but with different results depending on how your body chemistry is.

But as for the CH's always coming back, mine haven't. And it was a GRADUAL PROCESS. OVER YEARS. As I started to completely eliminate these foods from my diet, my ha's started to get LESS AND LESS PAINFUL when I did get them.

Now its pretty much just maintenance. Like when you lose a lot of weight, it takes a while, but once its gone, you just keep going to the gym, and the weight stays gone.

Title: Re: what can or cant a ch eat?
Post by BlueMeanie on Sep 30^th, 2004, 7:05pm

on 09/30/04 at 18:43:36, bean wrote:

As for the CH's always coming back, mine haven't. And it was a GRADUAL PROCESS. OVER YEARS. As I started to completely eliminate these foods from my diet, my ha's started to get LESS AND LESS PAINFUL when I did get them.

Now its pretty much just maintenance. Like when you lose a lot of weight, it takes a while, but once its gone, you just keep going to the gym, and the weight stays gone.

There are many people here who have 5 year remissions between cycles. Many do NOT stop consuming soup and other foods. The Beast will return when it's ready. Just give it time. Please let us know when the Beast returns Bean.