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        New Message Board Archives >> 2004 Cluster Headache Specific Posts >> CH & Kidney Stones
        
(Message started by: notseinfeld on Aug 23^rd, 2004, 8:15pm)

Title: CH & Kidney Stones
Post by notseinfeld on Aug 23^rd, 2004, 8:15pm

I would imaginge the only dance partner worthy of the beast would be a nice, choppy kidney stone. Having never had one but hearing the tales of pain, I wonder has anyone here experienced one and if so, well, how did it feel in comparison.

If it's similar, I think I may be able to relate better by describing it as a comparison, though no one is likely to believe.

**extra bonus if you've had both simultaneously ;)

nots

Title: Re: CH & Kidney Stones
Post by IndianaJohn on Aug 23^rd, 2004, 8:19pm

See the thread "long time".

I've had multiple hemeroids banded at the same time and gotten a CH. I'd take the hemeroids any day.

Perhaps a little too much detail?...lol...

Title: Re: CH & Kidney Stones
Post by E-Double on Aug 23^rd, 2004, 8:55pm

on 08/23/04 at 20:19:25, IndianaJohn wrote:

See the thread "long time".

I've had multiple hemeroids banded at the same time and gotten a CH. I'd take the hemeroids any day.

Perhaps a little too much detail?...lol...

Just a little...ASS MAN! [smiley=laugh.gif]

E

Title: Re: CH & Kidney Stones
Post by Redd715 on Aug 23^rd, 2004, 9:05pm

Dear,

Let me say this ...ON THE RECORD!

passing a kidney stone for a man, unless it's the size of a golf ball is far less painful than child birth. CH is far MORE painful than child birth as I can attest to having given birth to two children drug free. One for over 32 hours heavy labor and the other induced, which I do NOT recommend unless absolutely a requirement.

(and if I EVER see that OB again I'll castrate him for inducing withough due cause)

this is your brain on pain this your brain during a CH...any questions?

Title: Re: CH & Kidney Stones
Post by IndianaJohn on Aug 23^rd, 2004, 9:43pm

Bowing down to the power of reproduction [smiley=bow.gif] I have often wondered if that were the case about Ch and childbirth.

And Eric [smiley=finger.gif] You suck! [smiley=me&mb.gif]

Title: Re: CH & Kidney Stones
Post by natas on Aug 24^th, 2004, 1:28am

Well like the mention above I posted briefly on my experience with passing a kidney stone. Anyway I might as well get into gory detail for ya ;)

I was actually on a plane from Houston back to Dallas when my stone first kicked in. I brushed it off as a strain from the flight (I hate flying). I actually thought it was me pulling a muscel in my side or something. I really didn't think much of it. Later that night I awoke with the pain in my side but much more intense. I took a pain pill and went back to bed thinking nothing of it.

Well I woke up in the morning feeling the pain. It was pretty bad, but more annoying then anything. I later decided to ask my gf if she wanted to go to lunch since I was still brushing this off as a really bad torn muscle or whatever. SHe said yes and so I started to get ready when all of the sudden the pain in my side got intense, 10 fold. Its hard to describe it but it felt like a bunch of charlie horses (cramp for those who don't know) in my side. This pain put me on my knees. Now I debated in my mind what to do and thought of all the possibilities of what it could be. I decided the best thing would be to call my gf and have her take me to the emergency room. Big problem here was that I didn't stress to her how serious this is lol. I actually called and asked when she would be here and thats it. After that I called my dad who had his apendix removed and asked if this is what I got. He seemed to think it could be since its on the correct side and stressed to me that I needed to get the the emergency room asap.

Well the gf arives and I am about 4 hours into the stone. I am now really feeling the pain. I basically am pale as hell and pacing from the pain. Funny thing about this stone is that you really don't know how to react much like a ch (atleast in my situation). If I moved to much it made it worse, but sitting still made it bad too, since you sort of focus on the pain. Anyway we finally get to the hospital. There I end up waiting in the Waiting room for almost 2 hours. I am getting really mad at this point. Apparently there were 4 people that came in with heart problems which automatically puts them at the top. Top that off with about 5 people ahead of me.

Well finally they call me and I go in and wait again. Another 15 minutes or so pass and I get asked alot of questions from a nurse. Nurse thinks its a kidney stone but wants to make sure so she brings in a doctor. The doctor pushes on my side and basically says that if it didn't make the pain worse then its a stone. Doc wants me to pee in a cup. I try, but I can't. Here is where the stone moves and gets stuck in my urethra (spelling?) The constant pain moves from my side and goes directly to my lower stomach and in my testicles (sorry for the graphic description). Now the pain in not directly hurting in my testicles but it makes them hurt (like you just got racked and your recovering). Anyway it was bad.

Finally the doc decides to put me on a IV. Not sure what he gave me exactly, but I do know it was a Anti-inflamatory. Basically giving me a dose of this stops my urethra from squeezing and opens it right up. Anyway about 15 minutes after the IV the pain just stops and I get a huge chill then BAM, pain directly in my penis. I grab the doc and tell him, he hands me a cup and says to go to the bathroom and push it out. Well after about 5 minutes of extreme pain I pass it. Doc takes that sample finds high amounts of blood in my urine and a nice sized kidney stone. I was given some pills to take in case another comes back to help me with the pain until I get back to the hospital. Luckily I have not passed another. But I do get paranoid when I feel the slightest pain in my side lol.

All in all it was a pretty intense time. Pain was bad, but I can't say it was worse then a CH. My ch are much more painfull, but overall having to deal with that intense pain for such a long period of time is just as bad. I would say on a 1-10 my CH's go from 8-10 and the kidney stone was a 5-7. My CH's usually last a avg of 15-20min's and occasionally will go up to 45min-hour. Then of course I get my consecutive ones. 15min intense ch then it goes away, wait 30 mins and another one will creep back :(

All in all I don't think any male here wants to go through a kidney stone. It sux and will put you on your knees. But I will say that after passing one of these bad boys you get a smile on your face like no other. Talk about relief man, I was smiling and gitty for prolly 2 hours after passing mine.

Anyway thats my long boring kidney stone adventure. Crappy thing is that I am only 25 and am expected to pass more in the future. My mother has passed around 3 and had to get one surgically removed. Her first one was also when she was 25.

I also did alot of research on the subject and found that sometimes high amounts of calcium can cause this. So basically I have tried to watch my calcium intake and also have stayed away from Cokes or other soda's (I read that something in soda can cause em to). But more and likely its just something genetic that is causing this. From what I read a stone is the result of the kidney not doing its job 100%. Crap builds up and creates the stone.

Title: Re: CH & Kidney Stones
Post by floridian on Aug 24^th, 2004, 8:00am

Clusters AND kidney stones??? You need magnesium, dude!

(Talk to your doc and do some digging - not sure what type of stone you have - magnesium helps most but not all types)

Title: Re: CH & Kidney Stones
Post by floridian on Aug 24^th, 2004, 8:12am

Quote:

J Med Assoc Thai. 2004 Mar;87(3):255-63. Related Articles, Links

The effects of potassium and magnesium supplementations on urinary risk factors of renal stone patients.

Jaipakdee S, Prasongwatana V, Premgamone A, Reungjui S, Tosukhowong P, Tungsanga K, Suwantrai S, Noppawinyoowong C, Maskasame S, Sriboonlue P.

Department of Biochemistry, Faculty of Medicine, Khon Kaen University, Khon Kaen 40002, Thailand.

The effects of potassium and magnesium supplementation on urinary risk factors for renal stone disease were studied in 61 renal stone patients. The subjects were divided into four groups and supplemented for a period of one month with potassium chloride (KCl, Group 1), potassium sodium citrate (K Na citrate, Group 2), magnesium glycine (Mg glycine, Group 3) and potassium magnesium citrate (K Mg citrate, Group 4) with a daily dose of 42 mEq potassium, 21 mEq magnesium or sodium and 63 mEq citrate, accordingly. The results showed that serum potassium and magnesium of all four groups normalized after the supplementation. Though urinary potassium significantly increased in all three groups supplemented with elemental potassium containing solutions [i.e. KCl (p < 0.001), K Na citrate (p < 0.001) and K Mg citrate (p < 0.001)] only K Na citrate and K Mg citrate, caused a significant increase in urinary pH and citrate but decrease in calcium. Supplementation with Mg glycine in Group 3 although caused a significant increase in urinary magnesium, its effects on urinary pH, citrate and calcium, however, were similar to KCl, in that they caused a significant decrease in urinary pH without any change in urinary citrate or calcium. Supplementation with K Mg citrate in Group 4 seems to have given the best results, as far as lowering stone risk factors in that it caused an increase in urinary pH, potassium and citrate and decreased calcium excretions similar to K Na citrate in Group 2. In addition, K Mg citrate also caused the enrichment of urine with magnesium, another inhibitor of calcium-containing stones. Although the four supplements had no effect on urinary saturation of calcium oxalate salt, their effects on the saturations of brushite (CaHPO4 x 2H2O), octacalcium phosphate (Ca8H2 (PO4)6 x 5H2O) and uric acid were clearly associated with changes in urinary pH. Therefore, in Group 1 and 3, subjects having a decrease in urinary pH, also experienced a significant increase in uric acid saturation. Though the saturation of brushite and octacalcium phosphate in Group 2 and 4 and the sodium acid urate in Group 2 were significantly increased, these urinary risk factors could be overcome, however, by the concomitant increase in urinary citrate. The present results demonstrate that for those stone vulnerable subjects having a high risk of potassium and magnesium depletion, to obtain the best therapeutic results, they should be provided supplementations of both potassium and magnesium together and also in the forms that would result in the delivery of an alkali loading effect.

Title: Re: CH & Kidney Stones
Post by rbmb on Aug 24^th, 2004, 2:25pm

Just a side note........taking Topomax (which many people here take for CH, including myself) increases the risk of getting kidney stones. This according to my neuro. His advice is to drink a lot of water while taking Topomax.
Rich

Title: Re: CH & Kidney Stones
Post by Redrum on Aug 24^th, 2004, 4:39pm

I spent three days in a hospital bed waiting to pass a stone. I would probably rate the pain at about 6 or 7. This makes it less painful then my demons potential but having it consistanly for a long time makes it tough to choose which I would prefer (LOL). However pain killers were very effective (for me) and when I finally did pass it I was done. No such luck with CH's.

Title: Re: CH & Kidney Stones
Post by FZfan on Aug 24^th, 2004, 5:54pm

I passed a stone back in the seventies, I would echo what others have said in that, while not as severe a pain as a k-10 attack, the fact that it goes on and on in my opinion makes it worse.

But back in the eighties, I had a severe appendicitis attack that eventually prompted the removal of my appendix.

I was rushed to the hospital literally double over in pain. They put me in a room and proceeded with various tests. The problem, I was told, with determining whether or not your appendix needs to be removed is, there is no single medical test that can determine that. There are symptoms that they look for, chief of which as I recall is a drop in oxygen in the blood. Also, since they don't want to mask the pain in case your appendix were to burst, you get no pain medication until they decide to take you into the operating room to remove it. Even then, the release you sign for the surgery is for exploratory surgery.

I had to suffer with that pain for a day and a half before they finally decided to cut me open and see if the appendix was the problem. Then they removed my infected appendix, which was the size of a ball park frank.

That day and a half of pain was at least equal to k-10. I layed there for a day and a half just wanting to die. It was certainly far worse than a kidney stone.

Title: Re: CH & Kidney Stones
Post by notseinfeld on Aug 24^th, 2004, 10:27pm

Well, it seems the results are in:

The Beast: 1
Kidney stone: 0

Stay tuned next time when the beast takes on 'sawing off your own peter'.

;;D

Title: Re: CH & Kidney Stones
Post by k9lover4 on Sep 15^th, 2004, 11:24pm

I have been getting both clusters everyother year for the last 20 years and I have had over 20 kidney stones. Without question i would rather have a stone attack than an 8+ cluster attack. The stone attacks are excrutiating but at least it is not in my brain and therefore I can use strong drugs and my head to deal with it. I also know it will pass when the stone does. Surgery, which I have had 3 times is also an option.

Once I had a bad cluster and stone attack at the same time. My wife took me to the er screaming in pain and the rest of the patients in the er were complaining about my screams so the doctor gave me moraphine to shut me up. TOOK ALL THE PAINS AWAY. But it was only temporary. Now I know how easy it can be to become an addict.

Although I suffer from probably 2 of the most painful things one can have, at least both conditions do pass in time (in 4-5 months) it beats a life ending disease or a cronic painful dondition

Title: Re: CH & Kidney Stones
Post by Karla on Sep 16^th, 2004, 11:23pm

Gee guys thanks for your help! I have a terrible pain on my right side. I am afraid It is a kidney stone. If the pain gets much worse I am heading to the ER. Sounds like it could be it but am not looking forward to it. I hope it is just a pulled muscle.