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        New Message Board Archives >> 2004 Cluster Headache Specific Posts >> food triggers - vinegar?
        
(Message started by: dabar on Jun 25^th, 2004, 2:02pm)

Title: food triggers - vinegar?
Post by dabar on Jun 25^th, 2004, 2:02pm

I know that foods containing nitrates (preserved lunchmeats, sausages, etc.) cause me to have raging headaches the day after. This is a reproducible observation that I don't care to reproduce any more.
Bananas and pineapple also seem to bring on headaches, albeit more immediately. But here is something else I wonder about:

Yesterday I fired up the electrical grill and made myself a hamburger with Worcester sauce mixed into the patty. This morning I experienced an unusually strong headache. I have never reacted badly to hamburgers, so I wonder if the vineger that makes up the sauce could be responsible. Has anyone had similar problems with vinegar based products?

Title: Re: food triggers - vinegar?
Post by thomas on Jun 25^th, 2004, 2:04pm

When in cycle, I can not eat any grilled meat. Not much problem with baked or fried, but grilled, kills me. :-/ But that is charcoal, don't own an electric, so I'm confused. Maybe it's the anchovies in the whorstechere sauce ;)

Title: Re: food triggers - vinegar?
Post by BobG on Jun 25^th, 2004, 2:26pm

I've never found any food that triggered for me.

Unless you call alcohol a food.

Title: Re: food triggers - vinegar?
Post by Superpain on Jun 25^th, 2004, 4:04pm

me either...

Title: Re: food triggers - vinegar?
Post by dabar on Jun 25^th, 2004, 5:35pm

Of course alchohol is a food, especially if it comes in the form of a tall, cold pint o' Guinness. ;)

Unfortunately, alcohol and my head don't mix well anymore. I make a good designated driver though!

Well, regarding those burgers, I guess I'll heat up the leftovers for dinner and see what happens.

Title: Re: food triggers - vinegar?
Post by k9n8 on Jun 26^th, 2004, 7:19pm

I have seen a connection with TV dinners, or any frozen meals. I look at it as I should be eating as healthy as possible anyway, so might as well go with the flow. It seems that there are so many variations of triggers that each trigger is person specific, except for alcohol, but as we talked about before, for some people white wine is an abortive, as well as ice cold beer......my hangover solution is still working out, if I am hung-over (which means I drank, clustered and imitrexed and kept drinking...) then I am good to go the next day. For camping, or one day driving trips, I do this intentionally to have a CH free day when it counts. I have recently been picturing my punching bag as the originaor of CH and tear into it, helps my mental state for being subjected to this....

Title: Re: food triggers - vinegar?
Post by ave on Jun 27^th, 2004, 8:22am

Never found a food that triggerd an attack, not even alcohol... untill last year when I ingested some licquorice. Hadn't eaten it in a long time, was not getting hit or anything, but after 4 of those pieces of candy I stormed to the nbedroom where the O2 is kept to put down a kip 7 asap.

I know about somebody for whom the smell of manure is a trigger - go figure!

Title: Re: food triggers - vinegar?
Post by FZfan on Jun 27^th, 2004, 11:36am

on 06/25/04 at 14:26:46, BobG wrote:

Unless you call alcohol a food.

Yes I believe it is one of the four major food groups. Let's see...there's caffeine, nicotine, chocolate, and alcohol. ;;D

Title: Re: food triggers - vinegar?
Post by BobG on Jun 28^th, 2004, 4:03am

on 06/27/04 at 08:22:15, ave wrote:

I know about somebody for whom the smell of manure is a trigger - go figure!

LMAO [smiley=laugh.gif]
That was Nicholas. Claimed he had ‘soft tissue induced’ CH. He was allergic to everything, manure was his favorite. He really enjoyed his allergies and wanted everyone else to enjoy them too. After his Botox injections he wanted to try cocaine.
We’ve had some interesting folks visit here.

Title: Re: food triggers - vinegar?
Post by floridian on Jul 1^st, 2004, 10:56am

on 06/27/04 at 08:22:15, ave wrote:

Never found a food that triggerd an attack, not even alcohol... untill last year when I ingested some licquorice.

Hey, Ave,

what type of licorice did you eat? Was it salt licorice, regular, or American (which contains anise but no licorice!).

Title: Re: food triggers - vinegar?
Post by ave on Jul 1^st, 2004, 11:30am

Salt-sweet liquorice, with the true licquorice taste.
Don't talk liquorice to the Dutch - we can't do without it. Dutch expats get send liquorice offenest (?) of all.

It usually makes my blood pressure shoot upwards, that's why I stopped eating it long ago.

Just forgot for a space and wham - roaring bp plus ch!

Title: Re: food triggers - vinegar?
Post by floridian on Jul 1^st, 2004, 11:54am

I've had some good licorice from Scandinavia - Panda from Finland is my favorite. I have eaten salt licorice before when bored or masochistic, but don't crave it. I bought a big container of Pingvin just to get the penguin container.

I'm guessing that a good portion of the trigger would come from the 'salt' (ammonium chloride). Ammonium chloride acts like glutamate - it triggers the NMDA/glutamate receptors, and increases nitric oxide - just what the beast loves.

Licorice (Glycyrrhiza root or extract) acts like cortisone and aldosterone in many ways, and I wonder if this would trigger or actually prevent (if taken without the salt). While licorice can raise bloodpressure, that is generally with large doses taken for several days or weeks - I think the salt would be more likely to cause blood pressure change than the licorice if you took only 4 pieces. But caution is in order.

Quote:

Eur J Pharmacol. 2003 May 2;468(1):21-5.

Taurine reduces ammonia- and N-methyl-D-aspartate-induced accumulation of cyclic GMP and hydroxyl radicals in microdialysates of the rat striatum.

Hilgier W, Anderzhanova E, Oja SS, Saransaari P, Albrecht J.

Department of Neurotoxicology, Medical Research Centre, Polish Academy of Sciences, Pawinskiego St. 5, 02-106 Warsaw, Poland.

Acute ammonia neurotoxicity caused by intraperitoneal administration of ammonium salts is mediated by overactivation of N-methyl-D-aspartate (NMDA) receptors, with ensuing generation of free radicals and extracellular accumulation of cyclic GMP (cGMP) arising from stimulation of nitric oxide (NO) synthesis. In this study, infusion of ammonium chloride or NMDA into the striata of rats via microdialysis probes increased the contents of cyclic GMP and hydroxyl radicals in the microdialysates. Co-infusion of taurine virtually abolished both the ammonia- and NMDA-induced accumulation of cGMP. Taurine also attenuated accumulation of hydroxyl radicals evoked by either treatment. This result is the first evidence of a potential of taurine to attenuate the effects of NMDA receptor overactivation by ammonia in vivo and points to the inhibition of the NMDA receptor-mediated NO synthesis as a possible mechanism of its neuroprotective action. Taurine or its blood-brain barrier penetrating analogues may be applicable in treatment of ammonia-induced neurological deficits.

Title: Re: food triggers - vinegar?
Post by D on Jul 1^st, 2004, 4:28pm

BobG -- Cocaine

CephalalgiaVolume 20 Issue 2 Page 85 - March 2000doi:10.1046/j.1468-2982.2000.00026.x

The effect of intranasal cocaine and lidocaine on nitroglycerin induced attacks in cluster headache
A Costa1, E Pucci1, F Antonaci1, G Sances1, F Granella2, G Broich3, & G Nappi1
The administration of nitroderivatives in cluster headache (CH) sufferers is the most reproducible experimental paradigm to induce spontaneous like pain attacks. Previous uncontrolled studies have reported that the local use of anaesthetic agents in the area of the sphenopalatine fossa is able to extinguish nitroglycerin (NTG) induced pain in CH. The present study, carried out according to a double blind placebo controlled design, included 15 CH patients, six with episodic CH (mean ±SD age of 36.8 ± 5.6 years), and nine with chronic CH (37.8 ± 10.4 years). Patients had undergone a standard NTG test (0.9 mg sublingually), during which the intensity of pain was scored using a visuo analogic scale (VAS, range 0-10). Nine patients (two with the episodic form, seven with the chronic form) experienced a typical, spontaneous like attack on the usual side, occurring in all cases within 45 min. In these patients, the test was repeated with an interval of 2 days, and once pain intensity reached 5 on the VAS, a 10% solution of cocaine hydrochloride (1 ml, mean amount per application 40-50 mg), or 10% lidocaine (1 ml), or saline was applied using a cotton swab in the area corresponding to the sphenopalatine fossa, under anterior rhinoscopy. This was done in both the symptomatic and the non symptomatic side, for 5 min. Treatments were always performed randomly, in separate sessions. All patients responded promptly to both anaesthetic agents, with complete cessation of induced pain occurring after 31.3 ± 13.1 min for cocaine and 37.0 ± 7.8 min for lidocaine (M ± SD). In the case of saline application, pain severity increased thereafter, and extinction of the provoked attacks occurred with a latency of 59.3 ± 12.3 min (P < 0.01 and P < 0.01 vs. cocaine and lidocaine, respectively, Mann-Whitney U test). While further suggesting that the sphenopalatine ganglion participates in the mechanisms of pain, these findings indicate that the local administration of the anaesthetic agents cocaine and lidocaine is effective on NTG induced CH attacks, and may be used in the symptomatic treatment of this disorder.

One neurologist used it (that I know of) for his abortive, but he will NOT prescribe it for anyone.. laughs...

Peace & Positive Energy

D

Title: Re: food triggers - vinegar?
Post by FZfan on Jul 1^st, 2004, 5:42pm

Cocaine? Hmmm, well I guess it's great if it'll kill the headache, but now you'll be up the rest of the night!

Still, it's probably cheaper than imitrex. ;;D

Title: Re: food triggers - vinegar?
Post by PPRanch on Jul 1^st, 2004, 6:37pm

Never had ANY food trigger them........only alcohol

Title: Re: food triggers - vinegar?
Post by JBC on Jul 7^th, 2004, 1:26am

My father who is also a neurologist told me that vinegar is most definately a known trigger for many CH sufferers.

Also nitrates, nitrites, alcohol, and fresh baked bread. (I guess it is yeast still hopping around in fresh bread that does it...i am not sure)