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        New Message Board Archives >> 2004 Cluster Headache Specific Posts >> Shape of the face
        
(Message started by: kimmiedawn81 on Jun 14^th, 2004, 8:29pm)

Title: Shape of the face
Post by kimmiedawn81 on Jun 14^th, 2004, 8:29pm

Has anyone ever heard that the shape of the face can detect whether you have CH or not?
My former neurologist had mentioned something about the shape of my face.
Any thoughts?

Title: Re: Shape of the face
Post by BobG on Jun 14^th, 2004, 8:40pm

Any thoughts?

Yep. Your neuro is nuts. And out of date.

In the old days, that's back in the 90's, there was a lot of bad, misleading and just plain stupid books, articles and information out there about clusters. Some of the worst was that all cluster sufferers were male, had acne, a ruddy complexion and a square jaw.
And women did not get clusters. They were to weak to withstand the pain so they were only allowed migraines.
Thanks to this site we all know better now.

Title: Re: Shape of the face
Post by don on Jun 14^th, 2004, 9:27pm

Shape of the face.

If you have ears, eyes, nose, mouth, and a jaw line then you are a potential victim of CH.

Title: Re: Shape of the face
Post by floridian on Jun 14^th, 2004, 10:23pm

Here's the abstract on the study:

Quote:

Funct Neurol. 2000 Oct-Dec;15(4):215-23. Related Articles, Links

Case-control study on the epidemiology of cluster headache. II: Anthropometric data and personality profile.

Italian Cooperative Study Group on the Epidemiology of Cluster Headache (ICECH).

Several papers have been published on the possible risk factors and conditions associated with CH which may provide clues to its underlying etiopathogenesis, including a typical physical appearance and peculiar psychological characteristics. The aim of the present study was to evaluate the presence of peculiar somatic and psychological features in CH patients by means of a case-control study. One hundred and twenty CH patients and as many gender- and age-matched controls completed the Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory and underwent 20 cranial and body measurements. The photographs of 71 male subjects (38 cases and 33 controls) were examined by two experienced neurologists who had to decide which subjects were affected by CH. Both cases and controls showed normal personality profiles, without any significant difference emerging between them. None of the head, facial or body measurements differed between cases and controls, except for midface height. The sensitivity and specificity of the patients' pictures for the diagnosis of CH were found by examiner 1 to be 0.71 and 0.67 respectively, and by examiner 2 to be 0.63 and 0.58 respectively. CH patients do not seem to have a peculiar personality profile. While their physiques do not seem to differ substantially from those of the general population, certain skull and/or skin characteristics could lend some patients a typical face appearance.

The midface height might just be a statistical artifact as Bob suggested. Or it could be the expression of a genetic trait that is linked to clusters.

Title: Re: Shape of the face
Post by Superpain on Jun 14^th, 2004, 10:26pm

Again... Get another doc...

Title: Re: Shape of the face
Post by Superpain on Jun 14^th, 2004, 10:28pm

Also, when looking for a neuro you must qualify them. Meaning find one that specializes in headaches an/or clusters.
There are many neuro's out there that know less about ch and how to effectively treat them than we do.

Title: Re: Shape of the face
Post by OneEyeBlind on Jun 16^th, 2004, 7:07am

Hey, I got eyes, ears, a nose, and a mouth. Guess I must get clusters.

Bobs right, completly out of date material.

Title: Re: Shape of the face
Post by Ueli on Jun 16^th, 2004, 10:29am

About 240 years ago Johann Caspar Lavater published his "Essays on Physiognomy", were he claimed that he could read from a profile view the character of a person. Later other crackpots "discovered" other correlations, like the ratio of length and width of the scull indicating if someone was a potential murderer or not. And of course, these weird theories were petted by the Nazi ideologists for "proving" why some races are better than others, duh.

These idiotic theories almost forestalled one of the most important advances in natural science: In 1831 the captain of the HMS Beagle, a firm believer in Lavater's theories, was very reluctant to take Charles Darwin aboard. He did not think that Darwin's nose indicated enough energy or determination for such a long journey.... ::)

PFNADs
Ueli [smiley=smokin.gif]

Title: Re: Shape of the face
Post by floridian on Jun 16^th, 2004, 11:06am

How do you recognize a person with Down's syndrome? It's usually writ large across their face. Marfan's syndrome? Usually lanky with particular facial features. The ratio of the second finger to the 4th finger is associated with several conditions, including autism, asperger's syndrome, and homosexuality in males (prenatal hormones affect the relative lengths of the fingers).

Sure, phrenology was a pseudoscience - based largely on racism and wild conjecture, not on observation and experimentation. The evidence that there is a particular facial trait associated with clusters is not strong, but it based on research. To dismiss it because you think it sounds like phrenology is not scientific.

(side note: I'll be gone for the next week or so - Road Trip!!)

Quote:

Dev Med Child Neurol. 2001 Mar;43(3):160-4.

The 2nd to 4th digit ratio and autism.

Manning JT, Baron-Cohen S, Wheelwright S, Sanders G.

It has been suggested that autism may arise as the result of exposure to high concentrations of prenatal testosterone. There is evidence that the ratio of the lengths of the 2nd and 4th digit (2D:4D) may be negatively correlated with prenatal testosterone. We measured 2D:4D in 95 families recruited via the National Autistic Society, UK. The sample comprised a total 72 children with autism (62 males, 10 females; age range 2 to 14 years), including 23 children (20 males, three females) with Asperger syndrome (AS), 34 siblings, 88 fathers, 88 mothers and sex- and age-matched control participants. We found that the 2D:4D ratios of children with autism, their siblings, fathers and mothers were lower than population normative values. Children with AS, who share the social and communicative symptoms of autism but have normal or even high IQ, had higher 2D:4D ratios than children with autism but lower ratios than population normative values. There were positive associations between 2D:4D ratios of children with autism and the ratios of their relatives. Children with autism had lower than expected 2D:4D ratios and children with AS higher ratios than expected in relation to their fathers' 2D:4D ratio. It was concluded that 2D:4D ratio may be a possible marker for autism which could implicate prenatal testosterone in its aetiology.

Title: Re: Shape of the face
Post by don on Jun 16^th, 2004, 12:56pm

HMS Beagle?

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b4db39b3127ccebee288cd64a80000002610