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        New Message Board Archives >> 2004 Cluster Headache Specific Posts >> Morphing Cluster ???
        
(Message started by: Skratta on Mar 19^th, 2004, 3:45pm)

Title: Morphing Cluster ???
Post by Skratta on Mar 19^th, 2004, 3:45pm

At 53, I've had CH for 30 years -- last 10 chronic. I've been using verapamil, lithium, sansert, and oxygen. Now my Doctor tells me that the CH is morphing into migraine. Has anyone heard of this?
I'm dropping all CH medication for Maxalt (rizatriptan benzoate) and it's working great, but I'm taking it more often than it's prescribed.
Does anyone one know the drug?

Title: Re: Morphing Cluster ???
Post by pubgirl on Mar 19^th, 2004, 3:50pm

Hello Skratta!

Very curious!
I have never heard of Ch morphing into migraine. What does he base this on I wonder.

Rizatriptan is another of the family of Triptans like Imitrex and Zomig and Frova. It was again developed as a migraine drug, but works for some Ch'ers.
I think it is usually in wafers, which dissolve faster than tabs, but still miles slower than injections and slower than nasal administration.

How much are you taking? Like all triptans you run a very real risk to your heart if you take too much.

Wendy

Title: Re: Morphing Cluster ???
Post by Mr.Happy on Mar 19^th, 2004, 8:32pm

on 03/19/04 at 15:45:28, Skratta wrote:

Now my Doctor tells me that the CH is morphing into migraine. Has anyone heard of this?
I'm dropping all CH medication for Maxalt (rizatriptan benzoate) and it's working great, but I'm taking it more often than it's prescribed.

Morphing to migraine. Plus or minus? Dunno. You'll be the first to know. Maxalt's a beauty.....but when you say

Quote:

I'm taking it more often than it's prescribed.

WHAT is the prescribed rate for `Grains? It's way different for CH than it is for Meeg's.
No advice here,.

I _like_ triptans,
RJ

Title: Re: Morphing Cluster ???
Post by Samantha_Smith on Mar 19^th, 2004, 8:37pm

Hello! I sort of have the opposite problem in that my migraines and tension headaches (feel free to flame away) have been "morphing" into cluster headaches. For a week I'll have a very bad constant tension headache (then they'll stop)and I'll have a series of migraines (then they'll stop) and then on the third week the cluster headaches will start. They'll go about 2 weeks and I'll blast them with Prednisone and then the cycle will wind down and then stop. The beast is elusive, unpredictable, and strange. Headaches changing their nature is not uncommon.

Maxalt is a good med for migraines. Did your doc specifically tell you to take more Maxalt than prescribed? If you are then maybe you should check back with your doc to make sure that's okay.

If you're not having cluster headaches anymore maybe its time to find a migraine message board for support and help. For your sake I hope that the CH are gone for good and all you'll have to deal with is migraines. I'll take a migraine over a CH any day of the week baby!!! Good luck. PFD and N's to you.

Title: Re: Morphing Cluster ???
Post by ave on Mar 20^th, 2004, 5:12am

Why does it have to be "morphing".

I had migraines all my fertile life.
After the change the migraines practically stopped.
I got clusters instead.

One affliction stopped, the other arose. No morphing.

Also, I have had on at least one occasion, a migraine riding in on a cluster attack and lasting nearly all day, as migraines will. In the meantime I had my cluster attacks "on time".

No morphing there.

As to Maxalt - it is an accepted migraine medication and if it helps for some of the headaches, you may assume they are migraines.

Title: Re: Morphing Cluster ???
Post by Bob_Johnson on Mar 20^th, 2004, 7:24am

Answer is yes. Several folks here have both types.

The definition of cluster has been modified in the last few years to account for the situation where someone has primary cluster but with some elements of migraine.

Does one type slowly change to become fully the other? I've not heard of it but it may be that it so uncommon that such change doesn't gain much attention in the medical literature.

If you end up with migraine as the dominant pattern, you have the benefit of several effective meds being available.

Title: Re: Morphing Cluster ???
Post by Superpain on Mar 20^th, 2004, 6:48pm

I would be willing to take the chance to exchange my ch for migraine's!!!

Shit... I'd pay good money to have a ha that would put me in bed for 3 days!

As far as I'm concerned that's not a ha it's a freakin vacation!

Title: Re: Morphing Cluster ???
Post by miapet on Mar 21^st, 2004, 5:43am

D gets them all . . .ch, migraine, and tension . . .*ugh* . .but we don't do triptans . . .good luck!
*positive energy and light*
miapet

Title: Re: Morphing Cluster ???
Post by Liz04 on Mar 21^st, 2004, 3:46pm

Not sure about the morphing but I am sure about one thing....if you are taking too much of a triptan...you can actually make your pain worse. You can develop something called a "rebound headache"

Title: Re: Morphing Cluster ???
Post by pubgirl on Mar 21^st, 2004, 6:26pm

Liz

Excessive doses of Triptans can kill you.
Rebounds from normal use of triptans has anecdotal support only. Rebounds are far more likely from overuse of painkillers or opiates, neither of which will help much anyway with CH

Wendy

Title: Re: Morphing Cluster ???
Post by crazyauntboo on Mar 21^st, 2004, 9:22pm

I've had CH since I was 13. I'm now 32. They have changed quite a bit over the years. I used to get them every 6 months, lasting about 2 months. Now they come every 2 years and last about 1 month. Thank God! Migraine medication or knowledge wasn't very advance back then and I probably killed my liver overdosing on tylenol. One doctor actually told me it was all psychological. Helllloooo! I've tried every drug possible and found relief in only types of treatment.

One is sumatriptan and the other is oxygen.
Unfortunately the only form of sumatriptan that works is the shot. It's instant relief. However, it is super expensive and as you have mentioned it is very easy to take more of the medication then recommended.

I have overdosed on sumatriptan every cycle of my cluster and I'm still alive. I know it's not the smartest thing but when you are in that much pain you take the risk. I once gave myself 4 shots in a 24 hour period.

The only thing that gets me through it is that i know when my cycle is over, i'll have 2 pain free years.
So...I certainly wouldn't recommend exceeding the dosage, but if you have to I wouldn't worry excessively about it. If you are otherwise in good health you should be okay.

Title: Re: Morphing Cluster ???
Post by HypnoticFreddy on Mar 21^st, 2004, 9:41pm

Crazyauntboo,

I dont think you overdosed in Imitrex unless it caused you severe side-effects like a heart attack or losing consciousness, or getting some rash or welt.

2.5 to 1.0 male to female. Still seems odd that most posts are by women. Don't get it. I don't dismiss you have CHs, but these numbers are constanty tossed around. Just interesting.

-Freddy

Title: Re: Morphing Cluster ???
Post by Liz04 on Mar 22^nd, 2004, 2:47am

on 03/21/04 at 18:26:10, pubgirl wrote:

I have used Imitrix for three months now for ch. During that time I did not take ONE opiate , or painkiller. I developed rebound headaches from the triptan solely. And this was from taking one imitrix 50mg tab a day, which is far less the amount then i wanted to take for the pain.

Title: Re: Morphing Cluster ???
Post by sandie99 on Mar 22^nd, 2004, 4:40am

Haven't heard about that, but I do have bot CH and migraines.... :(

Title: Re: Morphing Cluster ???
Post by pubgirl on Mar 22^nd, 2004, 7:48am

Liz

That's what I mean by anecdotal evidence. Anecdotal rather than the result of research evidence. Sufferers like you and others often say they get triptan rebounds but when I ask the doctors about it they say "no medical evidence for it".

Doesn't mean it doesn't happen though!

But doesn't alter the fact that rebounds are most commonly caused by overuse of OTC and other painkillers.
W

Title: Re: Morphing Cluster ???
Post by Liz04 on Mar 22^nd, 2004, 1:13pm

Wendy,

I understand your "theories" What I am saying is that I was not taking painkillers or opiates and still received rebound headaches solely from triptans.....period. which is enough evidence for me anyway.

Liz

Title: Re: Morphing Cluster ???
Post by pubgirl on Mar 22^nd, 2004, 1:44pm

Liz

You are completely missing the point. I'll give up in a minute.
No idea what you mean about "my theories". I don't usually have theories, I read medical reports.

I WAS AGREEING WITH YOU! There are many people like you who talk about rebounds from just taking triptans.
I was NOT doubting what you were saying.
I was just letting you know that the medical profession haven't agreed yet and deny it if you ask them.
As I said, just because they deny it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Can we get back to the point of the thread now?

Phil
If your CH has gone into remission, or even, praise be, morphed into migraine or a CH/migraine variant, many of the treatments are the same anyway. I get both Ch and migraine and sometimes am confused at the outset of an attack which it is. To make life easy I just use 02 anyway, and it kills either!
Imigran and Zomig are used for both as well.
Makes life simple for me anyway

Wendy