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(Message started by: Carl_D on Dec 2nd, 2003, 11:41am)
Title: Panic attacks anyone?
Post by Carl_D on Dec 2nd, 2003, 11:41am
Just came out of a bad one. Been having panic attacks for years, but never bothered to notice any frequency in relation to being episodic with CH prior to going chronic.
Some I can shake easy, some take awhile. Also get the urge to 'jump out of my skin' if it were possible.
Ironically, one thing that calms me down in a bad one: music. I put on music and focus on the song, the beats, the counts, the notes and chords, trills...helps to distract from the attack. If you get them or ask someone who does, the more you focus on the attack itself the worse the attack can be.
I've got a feeling I'll be fighting off a few more of these buggers between now and OUCHFest (Sunday.)
OMG!!! It's only 5 days til OUCHFest. Only one song of our 3 song demo for the event is done, and I am trying to get print media involved in Alton and keep getting the 'talk to so and so' and 'she'll call in a day or two' and then no word.
Wanna know the best part? I woke up at 7:30am Sunday morning. I have not been to bed yet. Almost need to hook an IV up to the coffee pot, and you know I am gonna have a Trex shot loaded before I do lie down because I know with me, if I elude the beast for a decent amount of time, when I do finally drift off to la la land, I wake up with a raging LEVEL 10 kiss of the day!

I'll shut up now,
Carl D

[smiley=bash.gif]
the above illustrates the left and right lobes of my brain
Title: Re: Panic attacks anyone?
Post by Paigelle on Dec 2nd, 2003, 11:50am
Hey Carl.  I tend to have panic attacks right before I am hit.  You are right, if you don't focus somewhere else, you will make the attack alot worse.
Title: Re: Panic attacks anyone?
Post by aprilbee on Dec 2nd, 2003, 11:51am
Wow, you just totally described me!!!  I have panic attacks too, I like to listen to music also when going through one!  If I do focus on it too much it seems to get worse, I was taking 75 mg of Effexor XR for a bout 5 months and it worked great, but I started having them again and now I'm on 150 mg, it has stopped the panic attacks...I have never related them to CH...I've had CH since I was 12 and didn't start having panic attacks until I was 25 or 26 something like that...
Title: Re: Panic attacks anyone?
Post by Paigelle on Dec 2nd, 2003, 11:55am
Oh I have had CH since I was 10.  But I didn't have panic attacks until I was in my 20's either.  
Title: Re: Panic attacks anyone?
Post by floridian on Dec 2nd, 2003, 12:08pm
Yeah, my panic attacks started several years before the clusters.  Serotonin is one factor that contributes to panic. Serotonin is messed up in CH.  Immune messengers like tumor necrosis factor and other interleukins can also cause depression and anxiety.  These are messed up in clusters.  Melatonin is anxiolytic (anti-anxiety). Clusterheads don't make much melatonin.  The list probably goes on and on ....

If cluster headaches hit the maximum on the physical pain dimension, panic attacks can hit the maximum on another dimension.  Natural response of most people is to tell you to relax - but most panic attacks have a physical cause, and should be treated accordingly. Psychological techniques can prevent the condition from feeding on itself, but I don't think things like CBT are the best or only way to go. The average panic attack won't kill you (even though you feel like you are going to die), but untreated panic disorder can wear out the heart or cause other life threatening problems.
Title: Re: Panic attacks anyone?
Post by Carl_D on Dec 2nd, 2003, 12:17pm

on 12/02/03 at 11:55:36, Paigelle wrote:
Oh I have had CH since I was 10.  But I didn't have panic attacks until I was in my 20's either.  

Damn, and I counted it rough starting with CH at 17.
I always wanted a son. His name would be Wyatt (hence naming the lead character in my book.)
After doing my own research and weighing the possibilities of clusters being hereditary, I made the conscious decision that I will never have a child.
I can deal with having CH. Yeah right - who am I kidding? I deal with it as well as a crackhead handling pleutonium, but my point, all humor aside... I couldn't deal with it if my child came to me with those familiar tears saying "Daddy my eye/head hurts." That I could not deal with. I look at my niece and nephew and the thought of them ever getting something like CH, again...I can't deal with that.
There's just something about seeing a child suffer that proves to me that there can be no existent merciful perfect god who would allow this to become of his creation. I went to church and studied the Bible for many years, and I simply cannot believe in the existence of god. But hey, that's just my opinion.

Shutting up again,
Carl D
Title: Re: Panic attacks anyone?
Post by Paigelle on Dec 2nd, 2003, 12:22pm
Some research say clusters aren't hereditary.  In my case it is not true.  My grandmother and mother had them.  Neither one of them has had one in years, but I remember my grandmother getting up in the middle of the night for weeks and pacing the floor.  I am hoping it is all just coincidence and pray my son will never have this problem.  
Title: Re: Panic attacks anyone?
Post by cootie on Dec 2nd, 2003, 1:05pm
Carl there are sum good meds out there that treat panic attacks succefully...jus my opinion....but maybe sumthin for them would help you ? I took Paxil (Paxil bad bad bad 'for me').....it worked great and fast......does real good for sum.....but there's other meds for it. I gained too much weight on Paxil and then created anuther issue plus quit cold turkey and got drastically ill a long time. Anyhow.........you've got alot goin on rite now and are prolly gettin ovewhelm'd. Brad has 6 brothers and sisters........several of his sisters suffer migraine and there on triptan's. Heard there grama had sum sort of aweful intense ha's and had to have a cold rag on her forehead.....we never found out if they were CH or migraines. So it kinda seems at least migraines run in his family. Hope ya git sum rest before the Ouchfest and sum PF time Pam
Title: Re: Panic attacks anyone?
Post by floridian on Dec 2nd, 2003, 1:05pm
Inositol has been shown effective in treating panic, and it is better tolerated than other meds like SSRIs.  I found that a short term prescription of xanax was also useful in quashing panic attacks - I was taking 1/2 or 1 of the smallest tablets per day (0.25 mg) and it made a big difference.  No problems quitting after a small dose for a short time, but it can lead to a dependency over time.

Check out TAPIR - The Anxiety & Panic Internet Resource, at: http://www.algy.com/anxiety/


Quote:
J Clin Psychopharmacol. 2001 Jun;21(3):335-9.

   Double-blind, controlled, crossover trial of inositol versus fluvoxamine for the treatment of panic disorder.

   Palatnik A, Frolov K, Fux M, Benjamin J.  Ministry of Health Mental Health Center, Faculty of Health Sciences, Ben Gurion University of the Negev, Beer-Sheba, Israel.

   Only 70% of patients respond to current treatments for panic disorder, and many discontinue drugs because of side effects. myo-Inositol, a natural isomer of glucose and a precursor for the second-messenger phosphatidyl-inositol system, has previously been found superior to placebo in the treatment of depression, panic disorder, and obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD), but a direct comparison with an established drug has never been performed. A double-blind, controlled, random-order crossover study was undertaken to compare the effect of inositol with that of fluvoxamine in panic disorder. Twenty patients completed 1 month of inositol up to 18 g/day and 1 month of fluvoxamine up to 150 mg/day. Improvements on Hamilton Rating Scale for Anxiety scores, agoraphobia scores, and Clinical Global Impressions Scale scores were similar for both treatments. In the first month, inositol reduced the number of panic attacks per week (mean and SD) by 4.0 (2) compared with a reduction of 2.4 (2) with fluvoxamine (p = 0.049). Nausea and tiredness were more common with fluvoxamine (p = 0.02 and p = 0.01, respectively). Because inositol is a natural compound with few known side effects, it is attractive to patients who are ambivalent about taking psychiatric medication. Continuing reports of inositol's efficacy in the treatment of depression, panic disorder, and OCD should stimulate replication studies.
Title: Re: Panic attacks anyone?
Post by Madame_DeFarge on Dec 2nd, 2003, 1:09pm
I found that when I'm in pain the music thing helps.  My family thinks I'm out of my mind when I tell them that I do mathematical formulas in my head to music to keep part of my mind off the pain.  They firmly believe that to do this is insane and I am the only one in the universe that does this.  When I go to the ER I always have my headphones and music with me.  When the doc listens to what I have in the CD he is amazed that something like that could help.  (I use "heavy metal bagpipe music" since it can be  very complicated and multi layered)
So.............I'm not unique..............cool
Madame
Title: Re: Panic attacks anyone?
Post by cootie on Dec 2nd, 2003, 1:21pm
jonny turned me onto a band named STAINED.......I am in love with the song Fray'd.......I'm a supporter but have panic attacks when I have too much time to 'think' and need to keep busy. Drivein I tend to get overwhelm'd with thoughts about everything and I BLAST my awesome car's stereo while driveing.....mostly only been listenin to Stained lately esp the 4 Shades of Grey CD. Has alot of 'pain' dealing songs on it.......and I have my own pain Pam

It DOES work....but ya can't always blast music when a panic attack hits. I would if I could tho !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And disapear in it...............  
Title: Re: Panic attacks anyone?
Post by Paigelle on Dec 2nd, 2003, 1:44pm
I understand the "too much time to think."  I try to keep myself busy and keep my mind occupied.  If I don't, I get overwhelmed with worries.  Music does help that.  I like Stain'd too!
Title: Re: Panic attacks anyone?
Post by Carl_D on Dec 2nd, 2003, 2:26pm
I LOVE STAIND!
I'd kill to have a voice as pure as Aaron Lewis...but man oh man...ask anyone, I am a music junkie.
Right now there is an album that is so important to me, I can't quite explain it. It features my fave vocalist of all time, Maynard James Keenan. While Maynard is prolly better known for his spot in TOOL, he has also done the lyrics and vocals for both albums from "A Perfect Circle".
This new album, "Thirteenth Step" - it is so important to me, I almost feel like it is too good to share with people who might not get it, and yet - everyone in the world should hear this album.

However, the soundtrack of my life was lain back in '98 when I became chronic with CH...
Nine Inch Nails - The Downward Spiral. I felt every word on that album!

Just sharing the music,
Carl D
Title: Re: Panic attacks anyone?
Post by thomas on Dec 2nd, 2003, 2:32pm
Bill Ward "Ward One - Along the Way" The greates rock/metal album of all time.
Title: Re: Panic attacks anyone?
Post by Paigelle on Dec 2nd, 2003, 3:24pm
I haven't listened to Nine Inch Nails in along time.  Trent Reznor is an interesting creature.
Title: Re: Panic attacks anyone?
Post by Karla on Dec 2nd, 2003, 4:14pm
Carl as was mentioned earlier there is meds you can take for panic attacks.  I am on 150mg of effexor and also taking alproazolam.  It does wonders for me.
Title: Re: Panic attacks anyone?
Post by Paigelle on Dec 2nd, 2003, 4:28pm
I use to take something for panic attacks.  They were bad in my early 20's, but now the only time I have them is right before I get hit.  I have learned how to control them pretty much any other time.  It is like Cootie says, you focus on something else like music.  
Title: Re: Panic attacks anyone?
Post by thomas on Dec 2nd, 2003, 4:29pm
The only "attack" I have is the "devil dance."  We all know what that is.  That is also the only thing I panic about.
Title: Re: Panic attacks anyone?
Post by jonny on Dec 2nd, 2003, 4:37pm
You just get done spending a few hours inhailing a quater ounce of coke, its three in the morning and you open the fridge....AHHHHHH!!!!!!....NO BEER......time to panic, wheres the Nyquil...I have to come down fast, I cant just sit here.....LMMFAOROTFF ;;D

Ahh, the good old days....LMMFYBO ;;D

...............................jonny
Title: Re: Panic attacks anyone?
Post by thomas on Dec 2nd, 2003, 4:42pm

on 12/02/03 at 16:37:57, jonny wrote:
LMMFYBO

What's ybo in lmmfybo?
Title: Re: Panic attacks anyone?
Post by jonny on Dec 2nd, 2003, 4:43pm
Yam bag off
Title: Re: Panic attacks anyone?
Post by thomas on Dec 2nd, 2003, 4:45pm
OMG That is too funny.  [smiley=laugh.gif] LMAO.  Hey there's another one for you in funnies and jokes.
Title: Re: Panic attacks anyone?
Post by Renee on Dec 2nd, 2003, 5:17pm
klonazepam (an anti-seizure drug) taken daily at .5 mg is a good preventative that will keep most all panic attacks far away along with one of the many ssri's.  stay away from weed...it can manifest the worst panic attack you've ever had.  if in extreme cases and you know your heart is fixin' to quit and you just can't be still and know for sure you're a gonner, take 1/2 to 1 xanax and talk a walk outside with a tall glass of water.  be close to the bed in 20 min. cause you will fall free of the panic and fast asleep.  keep sipping water until the panic eases as that will keep your throat from closing up on you.
Title: Re: Panic attacks anyone?
Post by Rick_K on Dec 2nd, 2003, 6:50pm
klonazepam may have helped my panic attacks but after my cycle started last time it seemed to bring on a CH.  Never had a problem with xanax.  Needless to say dumped the klonazepam, back on xanax.

Seems like a lot of us have panic attacks or anixety problems along with CH.  For me clusters started years before any anixety problems showed up.  Just lucky I guess.

Rick
Title: Re: Panic attacks anyone?
Post by 5-string on Dec 2nd, 2003, 7:46pm
Hey Carl_D,
 Sorry about the attacks, They suck. I never thought to associate them with clusters. I just thought mine were caused by my general fear of people. But they did start getting bad when my clusters started. Which(btw) was the same time I threw the booze and drugs down the toilet..hmmm.
One time I was giving a banjo workshop and had a total panic attack right there in front of 15 people. Man did that really suck.
I feel for you. What helps me is to let go completely,close my eyes and breathe slowly and deeply....hang in there,
...Mark.
Title: Re: Panic attacks anyone?
Post by cootie on Dec 2nd, 2003, 8:21pm
My panic attacks have evolved now into "blank-itis"........I jus shut down and can't even answer a simple question...I hate it when that happens esp I feel trapped or sumone asks me a question I can't answer......then I fear that will happen again so it gets worse. Did that make sense....I forgot what I was talkin about......har-har. Never ending ditz cycle Pam  

Yup I'm blonde  [smiley=bag.gif]
Title: Re: Panic attacks anyone?
Post by Little Deb on Dec 2nd, 2003, 10:40pm
Special attention Cootie and Floridian, and open to other opinion....

So does the serotonin problem lead to the CH problem or you think vice versa???  I take Paxil, and have been on it 3 years.  I want off, but have tried and just can't get off of it.  I take Wellbutrin to help with the side effects.  Now I am considering looking into an ADHD med.  Still researching.  I am really beginning to think I have really been ADHD all along, not depressed.  I started the Paxil for Post Partem Depression.  

I am wondering if my son is ADHD.  He is 5 and having some severe mood swings with anger.

And my 3 yr old daughter, I am afraid might have CH.

I wouldn't trade having her for the world, but yes it does hurt very bad to think she may have to suffer with this hell.

Feedback anyone???/

Thanks.

Deb
Title: Re: Panic attacks anyone?
Post by cootie on Dec 2nd, 2003, 11:12pm
Holy cow Deb......you think your 3 yr old has ch......I sure hope not....otherwise she will grow up fast !! What's the earliest age a person has been diagnose'd I wonder. Myself I'm not sure if serotonin  plays a role in ch....sumtimes I jus plain don't understand what does at all. Seen so many theory's fly out the window with last weeks beer cans. I still think the longitude deal the doc at the convention brought up was VERY interesting......I'd explain it better if I could remember it. Opps I feel a panic attack comein on Pam  
Title: Re: Panic attacks anyone?
Post by Donna_D. on Dec 3rd, 2003, 8:31am
I think it is only natural to have a panic attack especially when you know you are about to get hit again with another HA.

It is like standing on a railroad track seeing the train barrelling down on you and knowing you cannot move because your feet are cemented to the ties.  And the train ain't stopping for nobody.

Makes me panic....but I don't think that it is unwarranted.  Perfectly natural not to want to get hit again.

Donna D
Title: Re: Panic attacks anyone?
Post by Paigelle on Dec 3rd, 2003, 8:36am
I agree about the panic attack before getting hit.  It is just the general fear of how steep the pain will be, how long it will last and then just plain anger of having to deal with it.  

Deb, I took Zoloft for post partum.  I had a wicked bout of it right after I went back to work.  But like you, I have wondered about the ADHD.  

I am so sorry about your daughter.  I have had these since I was 10 yrs old.  I don't remember having any HA before that time though.  Not to make you worry about the genetic thing, but my grandmother and my mom use to suffer with these demons.  Both have been PF for years now though.  
Title: Chicken / Egg Problem
Post by floridian on Dec 3rd, 2003, 9:08am

Quote:
So does the serotonin problem lead to the CH problem or you think vice versa???


Don't know for sure, but I think a serotonin problem is one thing that is required for clusters.  The triptans that work pretty well to abort a CH act directly on a type of serotonin receptors (which act on something else, which .... ).

Also, melatonin production requires serotonin. We know that melatonin production is low in clusters, and that melatonin plays a big role in circadian rhythms.
Title: Re: Panic attacks anyone?
Post by mikeyd on Dec 3rd, 2003, 10:41am
No nuttin else...just CH here. Jeez, panic AND CH :o, that really sucks guys >:(! I get some pissed off when I get my CH's (pissed at the beast) Other than that I live for panic...lol [smiley=laugh.gif]
Title: Re: Panic attacks anyone?
Post by Hirvimaki on Dec 3rd, 2003, 11:23am
I get mild (very mild) panic attacks when a CH attack is coming on.  Add that on top of manic-depression (now called bipolar in the PC-verse), OCD and a few other three-letter goodies and mix it up with CH... It's an interesting life, let me tell ya. :)  

Hirvimaki


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