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(Message started by: forgetfulnot on Nov 28th, 2003, 10:31pm)
Title: George Bush at his best
Post by forgetfulnot on Nov 28th, 2003, 10:31pm
http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/11/28/afghanistan.drugs.reut/index.html

;;D

So sue me,

Lee
Title: Re: George Bush at his best
Post by jonny on Nov 28th, 2003, 10:36pm
"The Taliban was cracking down on poppy production in the year before the U.S. military drove the movement out of office in late 2001 in response to its friendship and cooperation with the al Qaeda organization of Osama bin Laden. "

Laughing my mother fucking ass off!!!!

I had to type that out...if you believe that you are an idiot....LMAO ;;D

Christ!!!

...........................................jonny
Title: Re: George Bush at his best
Post by forgetfulnot on Nov 28th, 2003, 10:44pm

Quote:
"The Taliban was cracking down on poppy production in the year before the U.S. military drove the movement out of office in late 2001 in response to its friendship and cooperation with the al Qaeda organization of Osama bin Laden. "


Believe it jonny, it really did happen dude.

.............Lee  ::)
Title: Re: George Bush at his best
Post by 12gagueblast on Nov 28th, 2003, 11:01pm
Gee what is your point fubar?  we should have left the tallies in power and let them help osama or what?  who the hell cares?  what you dont hear is that much of those poppies are used for pharmisutical morphine that is used in hospitals.  let me ask would you rather have pretty flowers growing in Afganistan of terrorists.  CNN the clinton news network, slanting again i'd say.
Title: Re: George Bush at his best
Post by forgetfulnot on Nov 28th, 2003, 11:17pm

Quote:
Gee what is your point fubar?


If you can't see the point by now, there is really no future in further discussion.

Lee, watching his BACK
Title: Re: George Bush at his best
Post by don on Nov 28th, 2003, 11:54pm

Quote:
Opium production complicates the task of restoring central government authority in Afghanistan because it enables the warlords to run small armies and gives them an extra financial incentive to retain their autonomy.


Not to mention the fact that half the fucking country is nodding out!
Title: Re: George Bush at his best
Post by forgetfulnot on Nov 29th, 2003, 1:34am
We should do to sleep now!

[smiley=guyflash.gif]

lee
Title: Re: George Bush at his best
Post by 12gagueblast on Nov 29th, 2003, 3:03am
forgetfullnot    flowers or terrorists which do you want in afganistan?  you didnt answer.  are you saying the world would be a better place if osama wasnt hiding in a cave and the taliban was still in power?  this is the impression i get from you. would you care to say otherwise?????
Title: Re: George Bush at his best
Post by pubgirl on Nov 29th, 2003, 3:45am
Fubar? [smiley=huh.gif]
Hope that was just an error
Title: Re: George Bush at his best
Post by Charlie on Nov 29th, 2003, 4:46am
Screw the poppies. Get bin Laden first.

George decided that it's better copy to go for Saddam.....who they can't get either. Hope they do. It's costing us more than money.

Beats me why George and his bizarre handlers can't keep their eyes on the ball.


Quote:
CNN the clinton news network, slanting again i'd say
Bullshit of the first order. 19th Century Fox "News" wrote the book on bias reporting. Only a network that isn't "Fair and Balanced" has to say so.

Opiates are pretty damn useful. Get the bad guys first, then waste time on the poppies.

Jeesh!

Charlie
Title: Re: George Bush at his best
Post by mikeyd on Nov 29th, 2003, 7:48am
Screw it I say...poppies for everyone!!!!!heh heh heh [smiley=smokin.gif] [smiley=gocrazy.gif] [smiley=biggrin.gif]


Quote:
The Taliban was cracking down on poppy production

Dont you mean
The Taliban was cracking down out on poppy production.... [smiley=laugh.gif]lol
Title: Re: George Bush at his best
Post by Jimmy_B on Nov 29th, 2003, 8:10am
In actuality, most of the world still uses opium & is needed to make Morphine, codeine, & other opiate & opioid meds. Also Naloxone which is used to counter-act an over-dose of opiates. America imports tons of the stuff...for just this use. C'mon...would you want to go through a serious operation or accident without a little morphine to ease the pain. Heroin is just a brand name (Bayer) for aceta-morphine which is used extensively for it's pain killing properties in a lot of European countries. It just so happens it's illegal in the US & that which is illegal is black-marketed to people who use.

I can't find the link but America had given the taliban big money in order to halt most of the production of poppy & what they did produce...offer to us at a "fair market price" ...for the pain-killing drugs a lot of people need.

Well along came osama..& screwed that up real good.

Jim
Title: Re: George Bush at his best
Post by don on Nov 29th, 2003, 8:55am

Quote:
In actuality, most of the world still uses opium & is needed to make Morphine, codeine, & other opiate & opioid meds. Also Naloxone which is used to counter-act an over-dose of opiates.


For some reason I dont think that is the primary motivation for poopy production in Afghanistan.
Title: Re: George Bush at his best
Post by brain_cramps on Nov 29th, 2003, 9:08am

on 11/29/03 at 08:55:51, don wrote:
For some reason I dont think that is the primary motivation for poopy production in Afghanistan.


I have to agree with Don on this one.
Title: Re: George Bush at his best
Post by Jimmy_B on Nov 29th, 2003, 9:36am

on 11/29/03 at 09:08:41, brain_cramps wrote:
I have to agree with Don on this one.


Oh, I'm sure your right...I just wanted to point out that the production of opium is legal (heavily scrutinized, but legal) for such use.

Actually I think it's India that produces most of the legal opium for the world's use.

Jim
Title: Re: George Bush at his best
Post by pubgirl on Nov 29th, 2003, 10:59am
Hey Grant

Your £20 bet still intact.

You wrote POOPY without any smilies!

Shame no-one else is game for a bet for a good cause

W
Title: Re: George Bush at his best
Post by 12gagueblast on Nov 29th, 2003, 12:03pm
As i thought no answer.  yes there may be more poppies produced now.  so what.  an unintended consequence of removing a government that was supporting an organisation that killed over 3000 of the worlds citizens.  i ask again would you rather have more poppies growing or more september 11ths?  i realise that the Afgan will not eliminate all terrorisim but i believe it will reduce terrorism.  your silence on this speaks volumes.     CNN has been found to invent stories one in partickular on gun controll (semi-auto/full auto) invented and deliberately missled.  same as new york times, only CNN didnt fire the staff that did the story.  Fox by the way usually presents both side in a debate style format, it only seems like it is right wing because we are so used to the socialist left giving us our news.  is Fox to the  right of CNN absolutely.  Fox is closer to the center which is the to the right of the left.  Just about anything could be to the right of CNN (does that mean it isnt "fair and balanced" absolutely not).
Title: Re: George Bush at his best
Post by brain_cramps on Nov 29th, 2003, 12:10pm

on 11/29/03 at 10:59:42, pubgirl wrote:
Hey Grant

Your £20 bet still intact.

You wrote POOPY without any smilies!

Shame no-one else is game for a bet for a good cause

W



Never even noticed that!    LMAO!
Title: Re: George Bush at his best
Post by fubar on Nov 29th, 2003, 2:34pm

on 11/28/03 at 23:01:07, 12gagueblast wrote:
Gee what is your point fubar?  we should have left the tallies in power and let them help osama or what?  who the hell cares?  what you dont hear is that much of those poppies are used for pharmisutical morphine that is used in hospitals.  let me ask would you rather have pretty flowers growing in Afganistan of terrorists.  CNN the clinton news network, slanting again i'd say.


How'd I get dragged into this?  I just started reading this thread.

-fubar
Title: Re: George Bush at his best
Post by forgetfulnot on Nov 29th, 2003, 2:47pm
What's is all the right vs. left, CNN vs. FOX all about. The article was published by Reuters and plainly credited in the lead in. CNN, FOX and every other news agency use
Reuters as a source because they are one of, if not the most credible newswire services on the planet. I am a dyed in the wool DEMOCRAT, however I watch FOX news all the time, not only to get a different perspective on things, the women are better looking.   ;;D

Lee
Title: Re: George Bush at his best
Post by jonny on Nov 29th, 2003, 3:20pm

on 11/29/03 at 14:34:35, fubar wrote:
How'd I get dragged into this?  I just started reading this thread.


LMAO....Shawn, I was wondering that myself ;;D

Christ dude, you get in trouble and you aint even here.....LMMFAO ;;D

.................................jonny
Title: Re: George Bush at his best
Post by brain_cramps on Nov 29th, 2003, 3:40pm

on 11/29/03 at 14:34:35, fubar wrote:
How'd I get dragged into this?  I just started reading this thread.

-fubar


I noticed that this morning.   I thought either you must have posted something that you regretted and eventually removed the post   or   had nothing to do with it.

Since its not like you to remove a post, I was wondering how long until you came along and noticed this!

LMAO!!!

grant  
Title: Re: George Bush at his best
Post by 12gagueblast on Nov 29th, 2003, 4:46pm
Sorry FUBAR!  i was trying to poke fun of forgetfull not with the military acronim FUBAR i didnt know anybody used that as a name here my apoligies!! :) :)    you are right forgetfull the source makes no difference.  with your post and your superior use of logic i never would have taken you for a democrat  ;).   i noted that you posted but changed the subject to the news thing and did not answer my question.  silence on the subject is golden. :P.
Title: Re: George Bush at his best
Post by Charlie on Nov 29th, 2003, 5:16pm

Quote:
Fox is closer to the center which is the to the right of the left


Bill O'Reilly, Shawn Hannity, Oliver North, Cal Thomas.

Lots of part-timer wackos of the Ann Coulter lunatic fringe as well. This bunch is as close to the center as Pat Roberston and Jerry Falwell.

Get Real.

It's fine being a conservative. George Will for example.

It's not okay to be nuts.

Charlie
Title: Re: George Bush at his best
Post by forgetfulnot on Nov 29th, 2003, 5:30pm

Quote:
i noted that you posted but changed the subject to the news thing and did not answer my question


I thought you were talking to someone else at the time, all I did was pat old George on the back, your political rhetoric doe's not interest me. As for the poppy production numbers, on the surface it looks bad, in reality the Taliban after several years of bumper crops had built a huge inventory that was declining in value due to over production. The only way to raise prices was to cut production. The street price of heroin jumped worldwide as a result. This small country is a huge player in worldwide heroin supply, not just good old morphine as you implied. Whether your are right, left or somewhere in the middle this is a failure by George Bush, Jr. to finish the fucking job in Afghanistan, If he can’t handle that just how do you think the Iraqi deal will pan out.  ;)

Lee    

Title: Re: George Bush at his best
Post by thomas on Nov 29th, 2003, 5:33pm

on 11/29/03 at 17:30:31, forgetfulnot wrote:
I just how do you think the Iraqi deal will pan out.  ;)

Probably better than Mogadishu.
Title: Re: George Bush at his best
Post by jonny on Nov 29th, 2003, 5:35pm
I know....I really do!!!

Iwanttoargueaboutpolotics.com

There ya go....perfect site ;;D

...........................................jonny
Title: Re: George Bush at his best
Post by Charlie on Nov 29th, 2003, 5:44pm
I'm up for it  ;;D  :o

Surprise surprise.  ::)

Too much concentrating on the damn poppies. Kill bin Laden. I forget who said it...How hard can it be to find a six foot towel head attached to his luggage? 8)

MOC
Title: Re: George Bush at his best
Post by 12gagueblast on Nov 29th, 2003, 5:55pm
charlie the point of fox is that they may have what you call nuts or kooks from the right but they also have people others think are kooks allan colms, aclu and others to name a few.  the point is on CNN they are absent the right wing kooks as you say.  humor is intended here.  forgetfull you still never answered the question  is the world better off now with the tallies and husain out of power or should we have left them in power?  i understand there are some things that happend in both countries after the overthrows of the governments there that everyone would like to change, but weight that against other choice and tell me what you think. yes or no? is the world a safer place now?  or would it have been safer if we did nothing after sept 11th?  did everything go perfect no everyone will agree to that i think, have threats been reduced i think yes.  


4 MORE YEARS! 8)
Title: Re: George Bush at his best
Post by forgetfulnot on Nov 29th, 2003, 6:43pm

Quote:
is the world better off now with the tallies and husain out of power or should we have left them in power?


12G, Is the world better off, yes. There seems to be a difference of opinion from some of the locals over there, change is a hard pill for most of us. I can only wish we get through this thing without many more servicemen / women loosing thier live's.

Peace

Lee
Title: Re: George Bush at his best
Post by forgetfulnot on Nov 29th, 2003, 7:55pm

Quote:
It's not okay to be nuts.

Charlie


Have you met jonny?

Lee
Title: Re: George Bush at his best
Post by Mark C on Nov 29th, 2003, 8:00pm

on 11/29/03 at 19:55:02, forgetfulnot wrote:
Have you met jonny?


Who's jonny?



http://jm.g.free.fr/smileys/fixes/king2.gif
Title: Re: George Bush at his best
Post by Charlie on Nov 29th, 2003, 8:15pm
Fox, which is owned and operated by Rupert Murdock, who admits to being ultra right wing, leans farther to the right than CNN ever dreamed of leaning left. There is no comparison.

The neo-cons are the ones accusing liberals of treason, and calling them, socialists, un-American, and baby killers.  The left has a much better record of welcoming varying points of view. If O'Reilly interviews someone from the left, he shouts them down and his afterwards are always intolerant to the left. Hannity literally screams at his victims. Alan Colms is the only liberal. Naming a "few" is easy with Fox.

I was a Republican for 30 years until the GOP found that they could win by scaring the crap out of rural America and with the silly idea that the past was better.
Everything is black and white and any deviation is considered a sin.  According to our criminal TV preachers, God is a Republican. This bunch has ruined the party. John McCain, my kind of progressive Republican is getting scarce. What a shame. Now it's full of demonizers with answers that fit in with the 19th century. It's very sad because I can like conservative thought as long as it remains attached to reality and tolerance. Unfortunately, it's going further off the deep right end every day.

The ACLU isn't expressing un-American ideas. It's John Ashcroft who is one of the most dangerous men in Washington.

Charlie
Title: Re: George Bush at his best
Post by 12gagueblast on Nov 29th, 2003, 10:57pm
Charlie truth is truth, no mater the source.  Conservatives call liberals socialists because most of their programs are socialistic, socialized medicine, redistribution of wealth for example.  If you think Colms is the only liberal on fox you are very mistaken, he is the counter to Hanity.  They have guests left and right. “The left has a much better record of welcoming varying points of view.”, if that means they are wishy washy then ok.  Yes some things are black and white contrary to popular leftist belief.    

     John Mcain is not a conservative or a republican any more than jim jeffords.  His type will become scarcer because the young are conservative.  
     
I don’t know where you are from but to say the ACLU isn’t expressing un-American views is crazy.  The majority of Americans are now against abortion, for the death penalty, against men raping little boys (NAMBLA), and such.  The ACLU isn’t always wrong and I’ll be the first to admit that, challenge of campaign finance bill (John Mcain) comes to mind.  

I cant say god is a democrat or a republican, but I don’t think he is fond of abortion, or being thrown out of schools and the like either.
Title: Re: George Bush at his best
Post by forgetfulnot on Nov 29th, 2003, 11:10pm
[quote]Probably better than Mogadishu. [/quote]
Read the newspaper dude, it is already much worse and getting worse everyday.

Lee
Title: Re: George Bush at his best
Post by don on Nov 29th, 2003, 11:36pm

Quote:
The street price of heroin jumped worldwide as a result.


Where are you getting these facts?

A bag of heroin right now is cheaper than a six pack and sometiomes less than a pack of cigarettes. The puity has jumped to 70 %.
Title: Re: George Bush at his best
Post by forgetfulnot on Nov 30th, 2003, 12:47am
That was then Don, the point is obvious, you just illuminated it.

Lee  ;;D
Title: Re: George Bush at his best
Post by jonny on Nov 30th, 2003, 1:27am

on 11/29/03 at 23:36:48, don wrote:
bag of heroin right now is cheaper than a six pack and sometiomes less than a pack of cigarettes. The puity has jumped to 70 %.


No shit?

WTF am I drinking beer for......LMAO ;;D

.........................................jonny
Title: Re: George Bush at his best
Post by Jimmy_B on Nov 30th, 2003, 8:32am

on 11/29/03 at 23:36:48, don wrote:
Where are you getting these facts?

A bag of heroin right now is cheaper than a six pack and sometiomes less than a pack of cigarettes. The puity has jumped to 70 %.


Here in Trenton, N.J. $20.00 for a 100milligram bag. Which is on the average of 10mg aceta-morphine & 90mg adulterant. (Cut) Average "High" lasts 2 to 4 hours before a "junky" is in need of another $20.00 bag...so we're talking a $120.00 to $240.00 a day habit. Definitely not cheap...by any means. A methadone clinic costs $5. per addict, per day.

To put into non-junkie terms a "bag" of heroin is equal to 10mg Morphine.

Obviously strength & cut varies widely among Heroin...but above is the average & the price is also pretty average country-wide.

Another weird point abouth Methadone or L.A.A.M. clinics...they did a survey & found that 40 percent of "addicts" that were enrolled in Methadone clinics were actually under-treated chronic pain patients, who according to Psychiatrists...did not have an iatrogenic addiction.

Jim
Title: Re: George Bush at his best
Post by don on Nov 30th, 2003, 9:29am
I ask again "What is the source of your information?"
Title: Re: George Bush at his best
Post by stevegeebe on Nov 30th, 2003, 10:03am
Charlie...

I think the ACLU needs to sue to have all vestages of religion removed from all federal land and they should start with...uuhhh.. say....Arlington.

Yea..that's it.  Arlington.

Steve G
Title: Re: George Bush at his best
Post by Jimmy_B on Nov 30th, 2003, 10:23am

on 11/30/03 at 09:29:56, don wrote:
I ask again "What is the source of your information?"


Well, that's what my dealer's selling it for, Don!!! ;;D

Seriously though...as I said "in Trenton". Heroin price varies according to availability, locale, etc...see below:

...What are street-level heroin prices across the country? (Exhibit 4) The most commonly reported heroin street sales unit is 0.1 gram (100mg), which sells for as little as $4 for Colombian heroin in Boston to as much as $120 for Mexican black tar in Seattle. In some cities, however, street sales units are much larger: for example, the Birmingham law enforcement source states that "no one wants to sell less than 1 gram" of heroin. Purity, sales quantity, and dealer competition all play a part in determining heroin price. Sometimes, however, other more subtle factors—such as marketing strategies or barter—come into play. For example, according to the New York ethnographic source, "Some dealers in the Bronx and Brooklyn have been offering a $5 bag to lure customers." Another example is Hawaii, where the epidemiologic source notes that few people buy drugs for cash. Rather, they tend to barter goods, services, or other drugs. Many of the goods, such as stereos, cameras, and jewelry, are obtained via larceny and other forms of theft.

Then and Now: Heroin prices (fall 2000 vs spring 2001)
Heroin prices appear to be relatively stable, according to the majority of law enforcement, epidemiologic, and ethnographic sources who provided this information. Prices increased in only four cities (Baltimore, Chicago, New Orleans, and Washington, DC) and declined in only three (El Paso, Los Angeles, and St. Louis).



Three of the reported price increases are in the South. In New Orleans, cellophane bags containing two or three doses of white heroin increased both in price and purity. Capsules (known on the street as "pills") are the most common street sales unit in Baltimore, where prices increased from $3–$6 to $10 for a pill of equal (but unknown) size while purity remained stable. In nearby Washington, DC, the milligram price increased from $1.13 to $1.36. In the Midwest, a slight increase is reported in the price of a medium- to large-sized bag of heroin (from $10 to $10–$20) in Chicago.

The El Paso price drop is dramatic, from $10 to $3 per "hit" (amount not specified), reflecting the increased availability and cartel competition described above. Also reflecting increased availability, black tar prices in Los Angeles declined sharply at the hit (0.25 gram) level (from $35–$100 to $20–$40), at the gram level (from $150–$300 to $100), and at the "eightball" (1/8 ounce) level (from $400–$600 to $300). The St. Louis price drop involves "bindles" of #6 gel caps, which sold for the "low 20s" in fall 2000 and the "high teens" in spring 2001. ...

Here's the link   http://www.whitehousedrugpolicy.gov/publications/drugfact/pulsechk/fall2001/heroin.html

Drugs are my job. Also since personally seeing chronic pain patients being under-treated & made to feel like addicts & cancer patients not being allowed to die in dignity due to junkies without any self-control & Governments without any heart...I have begun to become very interested & studied chronic pain & the pharmacological under-treatment of pain. Particularly  within the inner city & with minorities.

Jim
Title: Re: George Bush at his best
Post by don on Nov 30th, 2003, 12:46pm

Quote:
Drugs are my job.


Mine is prevention, education and rehabilitation but I am sure that us what you meant.

Just the excerpts alone from that report indicate inaccuracies.


Quote:
and declined in only three (El Paso, Los Angeles, and St. Louis).  


Absolutely false. There has been a huge price drop off in the Boston area. I have the documentation to prove that along with a monthly tracking record of local ODs directly attributed to the falling prices, increased availability, and increased purity.

Make no mistake about it .....It is time to eradicate the poppy fields and put the warlords out of business.

Oh and get a new dealer. Yours is burnin ya!
Title: Re: George Bush at his best
Post by Charlie on Nov 30th, 2003, 9:31pm

Quote:
I think the ACLU needs to sue to have all vestages of religion removed from all federal land and they should start with...uuhhh.. say....Arlington


I get your drift. People asking anyone to sue to remove religious symbols are pretty dumb. It’s a waste of tons of time, money and energy. Use these resources to help people..  It's incredibly stupid.

I’m about as religious as a freight car but nativity scenes, cemetery stuff, sayings on or in public buildings don't bother me. Hang the Ten Commandments or some other thing on the wall. Who does this hurt so long as I don‘t have to pay for it or trip over it? One doesn’t have to read it. Not a bad thing to follow though.


Quote:
Conservatives call liberals socialists because most of their programs are socialistic, socialized medicine, redistribution of wealth for example


Want access to all the Imitrex you need? Move to Western Europe and enjoy socialized medicine. How horrible. I think the doctor who spoke at the convention said it cost something like $4 a dose in Brazil. There is nothing wrong with a little socialism. Poor Svenn has to live in horrible Norway.


Quote:
If you think Colms is the only liberal on fox you are very mistaken


Name another regular.


Quote:
John Mcain is not a conservative


Excactly. Neither was Theodore Roosevelt.


Quote:
The majority of Americans are now against abortion, for the death penalty, against men raping little boys (NAMBLA)


This is the dumbest thing I have ever read.


Quote:
I cant say god is a democrat or a republican, but I don’t think he is fond of abortion, or being thrown out of schools and the like either


As I said before, religious stuff doesn’t particularly bother me so long as it stays out of my hair. What’s nice about this country is that when we listen to preachers and the like, we keep them in their place by not taking them too seriously. It’s the wackos who do that run airplanes into buildings, not fundamentalists.

I’m done. Whew.

Charlie
Title: Re: George Bush at his best
Post by forgetfulnot on Nov 30th, 2003, 10:44pm

on 11/30/03 at 09:29:56, don wrote:
I ask again "What is the source of your information?"


The source is my memory, which ain't worth a shit! But I said it and I am sticking to it.  ;;D

Lee


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