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(Message started by: 12gagueblast on Nov 17th, 2003, 2:36am)
Title: Magnesium?
Post by 12gagueblast on Nov 17th, 2003, 2:36am
Anyone ever try Magnesium tablets??????? [smiley=huh.gif]
Title: Re: Magnesium?
Post by 12gagueblast on Nov 17th, 2003, 2:53am
Not new to the site just new to post.  I'm 34 have had clusters since early 20's.  had a few as early as 15 or so but not in a cluster patern and didnt know what they were.  married 2 little boys 1.8 and 3.5 years old.  i have one of the stupidist diseases in the world or so i think.  i have enjoyed reading the posts here and it has made me feel so not alone.  i have met 2 other people that have CH face to face.  helps knowing your not a big baby.  im about 4 weeks into my usual 8 week cycle now.  but i think i may have aborted it.  AMERGE worked ok for me with O2 but insurance will only pay for 18 a month and i need 60 a month when i am having a cycle. did some research and looked like some of our treatments are the same as a fix for a magnesium defficency.   anyone try this before??????   i found this worked for me and had to share it with you.   it would be wrong of me if i didn't.  since im one of you. :)  
Title: Re: Magnesium?
Post by ClusterChuck on Nov 17th, 2003, 2:56am
Sorry you have to be here, but glad you found us!

Welcome aboard!

I have never tried that, but I am sure you will get an answer from someone here who has tried it.

Welcome

Chuck
Title: Re: Magnesium?
Post by 12gagueblast on Nov 17th, 2003, 3:34am
thanks chuck.  this has worked for me better than any thing else.  this may sound dumb but i think there is a good chance we are Mg deficient, or at least i was.  4 weeks into an 8 week cycle, started taking Mg, no more pain, no more meds or o2 either.  I took the amerge as a preventitive and felt good enouth after 2 days of the Mg that i quit taking that and have been good for the other two days.   WOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOO!!! in the words of james brown " i feel good!!!!"
Title: Re: Magnesium?
Post by HannahFroukje on Nov 17th, 2003, 5:07am
Hi

About magnesium.

For some clusterheads, maybe for all, magnesium could play an important role. My husband has CH and I´ve been thinking about magnesium too, but didn´t dare to give him magnesium tablets, because there´s a fair chance you disturb the delicate balance FURTHER instead of making it better. Why? because the same complaints CAN be produced by a magnesium surplus instead of a shortage, in that case you would make it worse.

Since you tried it and it worked for you, I would sa: YES, there is a strong possibility that your complaints are caused by a Mg shortage.

For all of those who are going to try it, watch out with it! Don´t think about this too lightly , don´t take high doses if you can live on low dosages, the mineral balance in your body can be disturbed easily. There is also a fair chance the problem is not a mg shortage but a phosphor surplus, because these minerals work in a balance. It can also be a Calcium surplus, or a vitamine E deficiency.

PLEASE, PLEASE, I beg all of you CH-heads, to let me know if this has worked for you!!! It would help me a LOT in my studies about what natural remedies can help for CH and it can lead me to homeopathic remedies that might work. So please let me know! I can help other people with it, I´ve come quite far to sort out which minerals can play a role.

You can email me on    knowitnotall@hotmail.com  

Also if you want to know more about this, you can email me too (or put it down here ofcourse).
Title: Re: Magnesium?
Post by brain_cramps on Nov 17th, 2003, 5:57am
Hey Blast...   Welcome aboard!

About 15 yrs ago, I went to see a Chinese herbalist/homeopathic specialist.  (At the time, I was at wits end, trying this route, acupuncturist, etc...)  I was given tiny magnesium and potassium tablets and told to take ONLY x per day.  The interpreter told me that this meant that no matter how small they are, never take more than the amount "prescribed".

I didn't find any relief at all,  but never wrote the idea off completely.

One thing that was very interesting was that even though this specialist had never met me or given me any type of examination he told me through an interpreter 2 things that rang a bell:

1)  "Its not the period of stress, but the 'let-down' period afterwards that triggers these headaches."  ---  This is something that I've heard from a number of sources since that time.  (I'm not sure if it holds true for me.  The stress-period seems to have a substantial-enough effect on me that I don't usually notice the 'let-down' period.)

2) Along the same lines, he asked if I had quit drinking lately since "Its not the period of drinking, but the period when you aren't drinking afterwards."  I found this interesting because in our brief chat no questions or mention was made of drinking so I'm not even sure how he knew that I drank.  He said that drinkers typically drink in cycles, slowing down for a while because of responsiblilities, guilt, etc...   only to start up again at a later date.  While I couldn't answer his question about quitting drinking with a definite "yes", I could definitely see in my own consumption habits that it did go in cycles (mainly due to added responsibilites for short periods at work).

I'm not sure if any of this is relevant to this discussion or th CH in general.  I'm hoping the 'drinking cycles' have no relationship to the 'CH cycles' since I quit drinking 100 days ago.  (that's right folks --- 100 days)

for what its worth,
grant                                    ::)
Title: Re: Magnesium?
Post by Opus on Nov 17th, 2003, 7:44am
I have tried it with no success. Melatonin is looking promising though. See meds page.

Opus/Paul
Title: Re: Magnesium?
Post by Bob_Johnson on Nov 17th, 2003, 8:19am
WWW.HEADACHEPAINFREE.COM   The content of this site has been expanded since I first posted it. It now covers several types of headache and a more general coverage of medications. It remains, to my knowledge, the best single source of information on the use of magnesium for headache--both for prevention and as a  treatment during an active cycle.
Title: Re: Magnesium?
Post by floridian on Nov 17th, 2003, 8:40am
Magnesium deficiency is probably a contributing factor in some people with cluster headaches. The first article below shows a possible improvement in 40% of clusterheads taking Mg.  The mineral is important for circadian biorythms, and it supports melatonin production. It is a cofactor for hundreds of enzymes in tissues across the body, and the typical western diet is deficient in magnesium.  It's not a universal magic bullet, but many people believe it helps them.  

Magnesium is innexpensive and safe at moderate doses (major side effect is laxative at too high a dose. The chelated forms (Mg-citrate, Mg-orotate, Mg-aspartate, etc) have less of a laxative effect than the oxide. People with certain kidney diseases might need to limit their magnesium intake).  


Quote:
Headache. 1995 Nov-Dec;35(10):597-600.
   Intravenous magnesium sulfate relieves cluster headaches in patients with low serum ionized magnesium levels.

   Mauskop A, Altura BT, Cracco RQ, Altura BM.   Department of Neurology, State University of New York, Health Science Center at Brooklyn, USA.

   Patients with cluster headaches have been reported to have low serum ionized magnesium levels. We examined the possibility that patients with cluster headaches and low ionized magnesium levels may respond to an intravenous infusion of magnesium sulfate. Thirty-eight infusions of magnesium sulfate were given to 22 patients with cluster headaches. The mean ionized magnesium level prior to 23 infusions which provided relief for at least 2 days and enabled the patient to skip two or more attacks, was 0.521 +/- 0.016 mmol/L; this value was 0.561 +/- 0.016 prior to 15 infusions which were ineffective. These latter 15 infusions were preceded by higher total magnesium levels. The ionized magnesium level prior to the 23 effective infusions was below 0.54 mmol/L in 19 patients. Five of the 15 ineffective infusions were accompanied by basal ionized magnesium levels below 0.54 mmol/L. In 76% of the infusions, there was a correlation between a response and an ionized magnesium level below 0.54 mmol/L. Nine patients (41%) obtained clinically meaningful improvement. Spontaneous remissions and a placebo effect might have accounted for some of the improvement. However, this should have applied equally to all patients, regardless of the ionized magnesium level. Measurements of ionized magnesium may prove useful in elucidating the pathogenesis of cluster headache and in identifying patients who may benefit from treatment with magnesium.



Quote:
Magnes Res. 2002 Mar;15(1-2):49-66.     Biorhythms and possible central regulation of magnesium status, phototherapy, darkness therapy and chronopathological forms of magnesium depletion.

   Durlach J, Pages N, Bac P, Bara M, Guiet-Bara A.  SDRM, Univ P et M Curie, Paris VI, France.  Jean.Durlach@wanadoo.fr

   Biological clock and magnesium status are linked. Central magnesium regulation may be hypothetized. Balanced magnesium status is requested to obtain efficiency of suprachiasmatic nuclei and of pineal gland.
...
Although the increased production of melatonin constitutes the best marker of darkness, it is only an accessory mechanism of its action. The psycholeptic sedative effects of darkness, like those of magnesium, rely on direct membraneous and oxidant actions, neural mediated effects (i.e. stimulation of inhibitory neuromodulators such as GABA and taurine), and on antagonism of neuroactive gases (CO and NO). Darkness therapy per se, partial substitutive therapy with melatonin and with their mimicking agents (Mg, L-Tryptophan,Taurine) apply to all the chronopathological forms of magnesium depletion with decreased production of melatonin: sleep disorders, migraine, chronic fatigue syndrome, fibromyalgia, some forms of asthma and of sudden infant death syndrome. Further research should assess the importance of the chronopathological forms of magnesium depletion in the physiopathology of these disorders.
Title: Re: Magnesium?
Post by thomas on Nov 17th, 2003, 8:49am
I have been using 250mg of magnesium with 5mg of melatonin and 20 mg of prosac - this combo has been a godsend to me.  I have been pf for over a month now, don't think I can quit the meds just yet, but wow!!!!!!!!  Welcome aboard.
Title: Re: Magnesium?
Post by 12gagueblast on Nov 17th, 2003, 9:39am
congrats on the 100 days drink free!!!   the nuro told me that the toxcisity level of Mg was very high and i have read that on of the first signs of too much Mg is "the trotts" if that happens i'll need to back off a bit i suppose.  Another night no meds, O2 or pain. yippie ya hoo!
Title: Re: Magnesium?
Post by Giovanni on Nov 17th, 2003, 10:48am
During my last cycle which lasted 4 1/2 months I had taken magnesium one day (during mid cycle).  Within 30 minutes had a CH (not during my "regular" time).  Next day I did it again and the same results--had a CH within 30 minutes of taking it.  The only thing that I can conclude is that magnesium triggered the headaches.

I've had really good luck with Melatonin @9mg time released and increased verapamil @360.

:-/
Title: Re: Magnesium?
Post by HannahFroukje on Nov 17th, 2003, 11:18am
This is what I meant! Mg shortage CAN be related to CH, but also the opposite !!!! And in that case it could probably trigger attacks!

I checked out this website about magnesium (thanks!), lots of info on that. The only thing that is puzzling me, is that these tablets that are mentioned have phosphorus in 'em too. I think phosphorus is not something you should ADD, because usually you have a surplus of that in your "modern" body anyway, caused by drinking bear or soda, or other habits related to the modern world. So I would not take that if I had CH. But perhaps there's a reason for it? The surplus of phosphorus could cause a calcium (and magnesium ) shortage as far as I know, so be aware all you soda-poppers ... you might be the ones that actually have the magnesium shortage!

Anyway, I'm gonna give it a try myself, since hubby is a bear-drinker in normal day life, it could be so he's one with a shortage. He is back on his old schedual again, 1 attack each 3 hours, remember I told I am trying homeopathics and temporarily they help magnificently, but only SHORT, after a few days of NO attacks, he gets them back on his old schedual. So there's where we stand now, and I did not find a new remedy yet, that could help him.

So I just went to the store and bought Magnesium citrate and magnesium chelate, and vitamine B, I'll give it a try. See if that helps for him.

Hope this info helps some of you too .... keep your fingers crossed for us. I hope I'm not triggering any of his attacks by giving him magnesium. I hope and pray ...  :o  :o  :o

Please let us know if this is working for you or not, I will do the same.
Title: Re: Magnesium?
Post by Ree on Nov 17th, 2003, 11:32am
Ree... (I mean Me the Migrainer)  I take Calcium with magnesium also cromium and a few other supplements.  I have only had 3 or 4 real bad migraines in a month and a half... remember I dont have CH... ONLY~~~ migraine but those of you that know me, know that, at one time I was having 3 weeks of Migraines to 1 week PF so this is definately an improvement for me... don't know the effect it has on Chers, though Dave does take the same supplement but has only been on it since the end of his Ch cycle this time~~ sorry.......... we will see next cycle though... ree
Title: Re: Magnesium?
Post by Giovanni on Nov 17th, 2003, 12:22pm
Drink probably less than 10 soda pops per year.  Not that much beer.  Love absolut 2 olives, shaken not stirred.

;;D
Title: Re: Magnesium?
Post by eyes_afire on Nov 17th, 2003, 7:40pm
Yup, tried magnesium.  No help for CH.  Although it may be useful to counteract the well known 'Verapamil Brick-Up'.  If ya eat enuff, it can sent you to the hopper faster than eating a jar of hot salsa.  Right up there with prune juice for efficiency.

--- Steve
Title: Re: Magnesium? REPORTING BACK!
Post by HannahFroukje on Nov 18th, 2003, 2:10am
Hi ya' all,

I'm beginning to like this place, it feels so good to have a place where you can turn to (even Jos - "my" CH-head  [smiley=laugh.gif]  )started reading the pages himself, but it's a bit difficult for him, because his English is slow).

OK, here's the report back on the magnesium.

Sorry, it's quite a story  ::)

I got it in yesterday and gave him a regular dose of it, together with the vitamine B. Attack followed an hour later, around 18.00, and it was bad, really bad, we're really back on schedual after our short "homeopathic break", ... "under attack", we are trying to figure out what to do, because it's so bad, and he takes two more magnesium-citrate tablets (mine are not so high dosed). He uses imitrex, but it takes too long, it looks like it doesn't work  [smiley=eek.gif]  [smiley=eek.gif]  [smiley=eek.gif]. THIS IS HORROR. I try to figure out what to do, while Jos jumps from the couch and starts pacing up and down the room, bumps into doors and freaks out, this is even worse then before  [smiley=huh.gif] [smiley=huh.gif] [smiley=huh.gif], he's screaming from the top of his lungs, starts pulling at his hair. I wonder if it coud have anything to do with the Magnesium, that it's blocked or something. So it looks like a good idea to me, to try and give him a "magnesium regulator", could not make things worse, only better, so I run upstairs to get my books on it to sort out which ONE, and here I am, while Jos is almost wrecking the room, reading my book ... ohmygod.

I get the stuff from my room and give it to him, by then he has been busy for more then twenty, or twentyfive minutes ... give it to him, just then I don't know because of the imitrex or the mg-regulator, he starts calming down. I wish I knew by WHICH ONE, DARN!

He's really shaken this time (and that doesn't happen soon ...). I am scared to give the Mg, again, but on the other hand, I wonder if I would give the Mg together with the regulator it might work well. So I give him only the regulator a few times the same evening, to prepare him better for the Mg itsself to follow. Four hours later next attack (one hour late on schedual so that's a promising start).

This one is only scale 7-8, which is exeptionally mild  for him. He takes two Mg. Citrate (and I am crossing my fingers and hoping it will work together with the regulator). He is doing good, tries to breath and concentrate on relaxing. I get his imitrex out but he puts it on the table shaking his head (I know he's afraid of overdosing it). He indicates he wants me to rub his back (he can't speak during attack), so that's what I do. It takes 45 minutes, but he's pulling it off, I give him the regulator every 10 minutes or so. Finally it subsides, my arm is hurting because of the rubbing, I have to rub really HARD otherwise it doesn't help him. He's not very happy, because when he doesn't use imitrex on an attack, his head will hurt all through the next day with a pounding headache  :-[. I WONDER I WONDER I WONDER what will happen now, when the Mg + regulator work, something positive should happen now. He falls asleep sitting up, I try to settle him down on the couch with pillows, and make up a floor bed for myself in the living room. During the night I give him one more magnesium tablet and the regulator with it.

IT'S 08.02 NOW AND HE'S STILL SOUND ASLEEP, SO IT'S MORE THEN 9 HOURS LATER AND HE MISSED ABOUT THREE ATTACKS !!!

Now I'm not putting out the flag yet, because I've seen this many times before, that something helped but not for long. But at least it's a break again and a night of sleep and I'm very positive about the magnesium!!! BUT !!! At first it seemed to worsen everything. I think we needed the regulator, but perhaps somebody else wouldn't?
Title: Re: Magnesium?
Post by 12gagueblast on Nov 18th, 2003, 11:01am
i took about 6 tabs a day that contained 47mg calcium 133 mg magnesium and 5 mg zinc.  i took it right after i had a K6.5 and then took 2 before bed two upon waking and 2 about mid day.  this has helped me more than anything i have taken in the past.  Still feeling good almost one week later not even having shadows.  i know this probably wont work for everyone but if it helps one person i think it is worth my time to post this.
Title: Re: Magnesium?
Post by HannahFroukje on Nov 18th, 2003, 3:18pm
Yeah! Be glad, I'm VERY glad with you!

Here's all going reasonably well. Hubby stayed free of attacks for over 19 hours, then had one attack, then nothing untill now, so that's one "8" in 24 hours, not bad at all (7 less than normal).

Mg or Mg-regulators seem to be working I wonder what will happen with other people who try it?

I only worry how it will be after a longer period of time ...
Title: Re: Magnesium?
Post by floridian on Nov 18th, 2003, 3:45pm
What's a magnesium regulator?  Is it homeopathic??  I am not a fan of homeopathic theory, but I think by trial and error they may have come up with some things that work. In the same vein, I am not a fan of Mayan or Traditional Chinese medical theory, but again, they have come up with things that work.
Title: Re: Magnesium?
Post by HannahFroukje on Nov 18th, 2003, 4:53pm
Yes, it's a homeopathic thing.
NB you don't have to be a fan to make it work. I'm a simple soul ... when it works beyond doubt, okay it works. I'm no fan of chemical medicines ... BUT hey, they work (in that case, also when you're lucky, just the same as with homeopathics)  ;;D ;;D ;;D
Title: Re: Magnesium?
Post by ClusterChuck on Nov 18th, 2003, 5:39pm

on 11/18/03 at 15:18:43, HannahFroukje wrote:
Here's all going reasonably well. Hubby stayed free of attacks for over 19 hours, then had one attack, then nothing untill now, so that's one "8" in 24 hours, not bad at all (7 less than normal).


I am not convinced that you have hit on anything that is really doing anything with cluster headaches.  To me, in my experience, having a few hours PF, or even a few days, does not tell me anything.  I have had these for about 25 years, and I know during a cycle, I can have one or more "light" or "no" days, without anything that can be picked out as the reason for the change.

I bet most of the people here have had that experience.  We have found one "cast in stone" fact about this afliction: It is unpredictable.  Some go for years with the exact same hits, or time of year, and then for no reason, it changes.  So far, no one has been able to tell the reason for it.  We all have our suspicions, but nothing has been proven.

I applaud your attempts to find something that works, but nothing you have told us so far, has me convinced that your efforts have caused it.  The results are too short termed to convince me.

I am also concerned that you refuse to devulge any specifics of what you have tried.  This puts a question in my mind as to how valid what you are doing is.  We are not dummies on this site, and we need to know facts, yet you refuse to give them.  You excuses for not giving them seem flimsy, in my mind.  Convince me that you are doing valid research.

I am very open and interested in the homeopathic treatments for this horror, but so far, you have failed to give me any hope.

Chuck
Title: Re: Magnesium?
Post by Tiannia on Nov 18th, 2003, 10:29pm
The only time that I wason magnesium was when I was in labor with my son. I ended up with PIHT (Pregnancy Indused Hyper Tension) and they were trying to keep my bp down while they were inducing me. The highest it hit was 198/162.  My kindeys had shut down and they were afraid that I would go into a coma.  After I had him, I was on mag for another 24 hours and then they put me on the tabs for 3 weeks until I saw the doc and he felt htat my bp was back to normal.  

Sorry not much help in CLusters.  

But for me the mag tabs gave me headaches while I was on them.  Also, I got really bad cotton/metallic mouth all of the time.

Tia
Title: Re: Magnesium?
Post by violet on Nov 18th, 2003, 10:47pm
Dig Mag!!!!  Take it in a bicarbinate powder which has Mag, Calcium and Potassium  from a company called Ecological Formulas.  I drink it in water  at night, puts me to sleep like a baby.  
Vi
Title: Re: Magnesium?
Post by 12gagueblast on Nov 19th, 2003, 2:06am
    [smiley=huh.gif] [smiley=huh.gif] [smiley=huh.gif] [smiley=huh.gif] [smiley=huh.gif] [smiley=huh.gif]
    Chuck I am assuming that you are speaking to me about the research I am refusing to divulge.  How can I refuse when nobody has really asked?  Didn’t know anyone wanted to know specifics.  Here they are.  Read cluster sufferers often had low Mg levels.  Read that they tried intravenous Mg infusions with some success.  Thought this hurts like a bitch.  Thought what the heck I’ll try Mg.  Tried Mg (see above post).  Seemed to help (a lot).  Did more research.  Typed in “Magnesium Deficiency” at yahoo (try this yourself).  Found that the nervous system becomes hyper sensitive to sodium when there is a Mg deficiency.  Sodium is what our nerves use to communicate since it is negatively charged.  What are they starting to treat us with now anti-convulsants (topomax….).  Thought H2O 3x.  I have never tried this but some people say it works for them. H2O 3x would flush sodium out of you system (you can die from drinking too much H2O).  Another cluster treatment others have used (not myself) is melitonin supplements.  When you are Mg deficient you have lower levels of melitonin.  Thought could be a connection.  Ethanol (drinking alcohol) also reduces Mg levels.  When I’m in a cycle if I drink ½ of a beer, it’s instant headache.
    I was in the middle of what has over the last 10 years or so always been about an 8 week cycle.  The pattern was the same with this one it was going from sucking to being terrible at about 4 weeks the tapers off to me being normal again after about 4 more weeks.  I can’t prove that the Mg helped.  Spoke with my neurologist and he said if it was psychosomatic or a placebo effect it would wear off in a couple of days.  It has been a week now.  We can argue the fact that we can not know anything for sure, it is called Nihilism.  I am kind of a Nihilist myself, but I don’t think that will help anyone.
    I am sorry if I wasn’t forthcoming enough with this information.  There are other reason that I think that there may be some kind of link to Mg, but I need to go to bed now if you have any specific questions let me know.
    I am also sorry if I came here new and seemed to have a “know it all” attitude.  I am very forward and it comes across wrong sometimes.  I have suffered for quite some time with CH and was very excited that this seems to be working for me.  I thought if it would help someone else I had an obligation to spend time at the keyboard letting others know because as we know this CH thing sucks.  :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)          
Title: Re: Magnesium?
Post by HannahFroukje on Nov 19th, 2003, 2:29am

on 11/18/03 at 17:39:47, ClusterChuck wrote:
I am not convinced that you have hit on anything that is really doing anything with cluster headaches.  To me, in my experience, having a few hours PF, or even a few days, does not tell me anything and other homeopathic doctors have given up on him (which I won't).  I have had these for about 25 years, and I know during a cycle, I can have one or more "light" or "no" days, without anything that can be picked out as the reason for the change.

I applaud your attempts to find something that works, but nothing you have told us so far, has me convinced that your efforts have caused it.  The results are too short termed to convince me.

I am also concerned that you refuse to devulge any specifics of what you have tried.  This puts a question in my mind as to how valid what you are doing is.  We are not dummies on this site, and we need to know facts, yet you refuse to give them.  You excuses for not giving them seem flimsy, in my mind.  Convince me that you are doing valid research.


Look. I'm not here trying to give anyone any hope. I am a STUDENT in homeopathics, I am only treating my OWN husband because we have noticed it does something. It would be very foolish and stupid of me to come on here and say "oh guys, look I've found the cure, take this or that and you'll be rid of it". It is absolutely NOT true that homeopathic cannot harm you, I've been to a homeopathic doc with Jos (hubby) and he gave him something that made it a lot worse over night (now I come to think of it: THEN anyone will believe it's the homeopathics  ::)). See, A homeopathic remedy is a PERSONAL thing, you don't wear eachother clothes unless they fit you and you like 'em, the same goes for homeopathic drugs, if it doesn't FIT you it won't work or even make it worse. It's not my place to recommend any of those drugs to anyone of your, if anyone is interested in homeopathic and wants to try it, you should visit a GOOD one and not take any answers from a STUDENT like me. I hope you understand now why I am not giving any remedies that worked on Jos? I hope so, because I am aware it may look a bit strange that I don't. For those of you who want to see a homeopath, tell him to look into the mineral pattern, it's my experience that almost ALL the mineral remedies work best. It will be very hard to find a homeopath that can help though, because most of them won't know what an attack looks like and can't evaluate the symptoms. Once Jos had an attack in the office of a homeopath, and he scared him to DEATH  :o :o :o ... and it was only a mild attack, this guy admitted he didn't have a clue what it was all about.

As for the rest, the ONLY thing I'm saying is that I've seen that it works. Jos is ALWAYS having attacks every 3 hours, no exeptions, sometimes he misses one, but never two. We've been through three cycles together and the pattern is everytime the same. We have seen it work, and work GOOD for 6 times in a row now with different remedies (yes! 6 TIMES!) but only temporarily. I mean simply that he was pretty bad, I gave him the homeopathic and he falls asleep and sleeps for 10-19 (!) hours and is rid of attacks during one to several days. When it would have been a PILL, there wouldn't be any discussion .

Well, never mind, I'm NOT asking anyone to try it,  and I'm not asking anyone to believe it. I am not out to convince you, everyone should sort out which thing works best on him. IT is WAY to EARLY to give anyone any hope, it has to be sorted out first and tested and proven. I am hoping that I can do my share in this and come to some sort of conclusion on how to find a solution to the problem, perhaps I could help CH-heads in the future. Not NOW unfortunately, I'm only studying it yet. And I HOPE, I really HOPE some of you will want to help me to gather as much info as I can on CH-heads. Even if you don't believe it, let it be enough that I believe it and that I am only trying to find a way to help people. That's why I'm here, not to come up with an easy solution. Because homeopathics is NOT the easy solution, I have really spent nights up reading and reading and reading, trying to sort out which remedy could work, sometimes it cost me 12 hours reading and eveluating symptoms to know which next one to take. So that's actually a bad score, 12 hours reading on my side, for 10 hours of sleep and 1 day free of attacks for him (to give an example) . When I would have been a therapist yet, I would be bankrupt immediately! It is a time-consuming process, and with such pain involved you can't take any risk, so I explore everything. When I would want to do something practical with it in the future I would have to find a way to evaluate symptoms a lot sooner, don't know how yet. But hey, to me it's worth it, as I said, I would eat half my arm to rid him of this.

I hope I've explained it well enough ... it seems that homeopathy is always a big subject for discussions, we don't NEED to discuss it. Just let me do my thing. I think it could be usefull in the future.
Title: Re: Magnesium?
Post by don on Nov 19th, 2003, 6:57am

Quote:
YES, there is a strong possibility that your complaints are caused by a Mg shortage.


An Mg shortage may contibute but it is far from being the cause. If it is you have just successfully embaressed a few hundred medical researchers.
Title: Re: Magnesium?
Post by ClusterChuck on Nov 19th, 2003, 7:33am
12gagueblast, I am sorry, I did not mean my comments to you, but to HannahFroukje.  

I am very glad that you have gone a week with good results.  That is GREAT!  I am SO happy for you!  I hope it continues!  A week of results are far more impressive than a number of hours, or a day or two.

I hope your results continue!

Chuck
Title: Re: Magnesium?
Post by HannahFroukje on Nov 19th, 2003, 8:14am

on 11/19/03 at 06:57:46, don wrote:
An Mg shortage may contibute but it is far from being the cause. If it is you have just successfully embaressed a few hundred medical researchers.


As far as I know, nobody knows the real CAUSE yet for cluster headache, I mean by "cause" the "first thing that goes afault in the body". And besides, what's the cause for one person, could very well be different for the other. But I guess it's save to say that if one takes magnesium and complaints go away, it would be playing an important role, don't you agree? Especially when they find that other CH-patients have the same result (that's not just my idea).

Why would I have embaressed medical researchers by saying this? I don't quite follow you, sorry. We can all learn from eachother , can't we?

By my personal experience, I would say minerals have a lot to do with the process about CH. But I'm not sure HOW.
Title: Re: Magnesium?
Post by Giovanni on Nov 19th, 2003, 8:41am
Sometime you have to have thick skin to post on this board HannahFroukje.  I personally like to hear of successes both short and long term on these things.  What I have noticed most about medications is the wide difference that a lot of us have in what helps and what does not help.  For me, melatonin has been wonderful.  Others, no effect at all to triggering a CH.

I personally applaud your efforts and wish you the best of luck with your husband.

;)
Title: Re: Magnesium?
Post by floridian on Nov 19th, 2003, 9:08am
Sorry if I got things stirred up by mentioning the H word, was just trying to find out what a magnesium regulator is.  I did a search on the web and could not find any thing called a Mg-regulator, only about Mg regulating cells.  

Like I said, I think that it may have come up with some useful treatments and was trying to understand it from my way of looking at the world.


Quote:
Sometime you have to have thick skin to post on this board HannahFroukje.


Yeah, especially since cluster heads are provably cranky compared to normal people.


Quote:
As compared to controls, the cluster headache patients were significantly more anxiety-prone (higher scores in the KSP Somatic anxiety and Muscular tension subscales), less successfully socialized (low scores in the KSP Socialization scale), and had a more hostile attitude towards others (higher scores in the HALTAM Hostility scale).


Also, subtle things (humor, sarcasm) that work in a normal conversation get misunderstood on the net.  So don't take it personally.  People here often disagree, even yell and shout, but it is a great place to discuss and learn.  And your skin will get thicker with repeated exposure.
Title: Re: Magnesium?
Post by don on Nov 19th, 2003, 9:24am

Quote:
But I guess it's save to say that if one takes magnesium and complaints go away, it would be playing an important role, don't you agree?


Yes.


Quote:
Why would I have embaressed medical researchers by saying this?


If it all came down to an MG Deficiency after years of research and untold dollars that would be embarrasing to the researchers.


Quote:
We can all learn from eachother , can't we?


yes.


Quote:
Yeah, especially since cluster heads are provably cranky compared to normal people.  


I dont need CH to be cranky. I've refined the art of crankiness to near perfection.  ;;D
Title: Re: Magnesium?
Post by HannahFroukje on Nov 19th, 2003, 9:36am

on 11/19/03 at 09:08:53, floridian wrote:
Yeah, especially since cluster heads are provably cranky compared to normal people.

........................

People here often disagree, even yell and shout, but it is a great place to discuss and learn.  And your skin will get thicker with repeated exposure.


Ehm .... well ... partners from clusterheads can be really cranky too you know after nights without any sleep, sore muscles of all back-rubbing, and our own headaches from listening and worrying  :-X :-X :-X. It's so hard to watch the agony of someone you love deeply ... YOU WANNA HELP, but most of the times it's not even possible to touch him, you can't talk to him, and most of the times you can't comfort him, or relieve him.

Don't expect my skin to get any thicker ... I don't want it to you know ....  :P

Anyway, you can just expect me to always be honest, also when people DON'T like what I'm saying, or don't believe it or can't use it for themselves. I just tell my own story.

Let's be grateful too that there's imitrex, prozac, lithium ...  [smiley=laugh.gif] hell even shrinks (or was it "shrimps"??) ... and pharmacies even though they sometimes make things worse ....  ::)

In the meantime hubby is still doing reasonably well, had one attack this day so far, instead of 2 or 3, so not bad. We're going further on this route, and we'll see where it takes us. He ventured into a nap just now, really scary, I hope and pray he won't wake up in another attack, that's always such a bummer  :-[ :-[ :-[
Title: Re: Magnesium?
Post by mikeyd on Nov 19th, 2003, 9:52am
Hello Ch heads,
I'm waging war with the beast again :( Hats off to you Hannah for your sympathetic heart, I hope you are feeling OK Jos, keep your spirits up bruthah, we can all make it thru this together. I have been doing some reading on the Magnesium and decided to give it a try after my usual successful treatments (DHE&480mg Verapamil) began to fail me.

It started about a month or so ago and I started my treatment which worked incredibly well until I ran out of my Verapamil, I missed the pharmacy that day and couldn't get to that place until the next evening....what a bad mistake that was!!!! That night I had a KIP 10 that lasted for mearly 2 hours....I thought I was gonna die!!!! But I also thought that it might just take a lil while for the Verap to kick in....nope. Got another one a few hours latermy DHE wasn't working either...so the next night...at KIP 6 decided to go to the pharmacy and grab some CAL-MAG (Calcium-Magnesium 1:1 300mg of each enzyme activated variety)capsules....got back home...crying with KIP9...took 2 CAL-MAG caps and it aborted 10 minutes later...whew! Not sure if it was the CAL-MAG or if it was the perscriptions, don't really care either as long as it is gone...so I have added 2 caps of CAL-MAG with my twice daily dosage of Verapamil. I   can say that it hasn't stopped the CH's, but it has reduced the severity and the duration of the CH's, again, not sure if it is the CAL-MAG or the verapamil levels reaching it's previous levels in the bloodstream...so in a few days I will stop taking the CAL-MAG and see if the KIP goes up or down or stays the same.
I'd prefer a homeopathic solution over prescriptions   anyday of the week...twice on Sundays.
I'm hoping some bright researcher is going to figure these things out eventually and deliver us from the beast.

May you all have many PFD's ahead, I'm looking forward to my next one ;;D
Mikeyd
Title: Re: Magnesium?
Post by 12gagueblast on Nov 21st, 2003, 2:15am
Personal update.  Have had one CH in the past 8 days.  And that is when I quit taking the Mg.  I was sick and didn’t know if it was the Mg or if it was caused from AMERGE withdraw.  Turns out I think I had the flu.  Anyway I am now just taking 1 tab 3x a day and seem to be doing well (with no AMERGE).  I cut back to one 3x from two 3x because it seemed to be working and because of the laxative effect.  This would be about the 5th week of a usually 8 week cycle for me.  This is cool.  Even if it wasn’t the Mg which I feel strongly that it is who cares WOOOOOOOOOO HOOOOOOOOO.  [smiley=laugh.gif] This is great.  I will definitely try this again next CH period. ;;D ;;D ;;D ;;D ;;D ;;D ;;D Would not believe this myself if i hadn't tried is so successfully.
Title: Re: Magnesium?
Post by HannahFroukje on Nov 21st, 2003, 4:19pm
And an update from our part.
First it seemed the magnesium did help, so I took out the homeopathic (Ithought only the magnesium did the trick, not the homeopathic thing), soon he was back on 1 attack/3 hours ... put the homeopathic back in , but didn't help anymore (seen that before, I'm getting tired of this).

We're going onto the next straw, he's getting desperate, and me too. We can handle 1 attack in 5 or 6 hours, but 1 every 3 hours is really killing us, you don't get any rest. Monday going to see the doc about melatonine, and in the meantime trying to find some homeopathic remedy that will buy him some time inbetween shots.

Ohmygod this is horrible, whenever I hear his footsteps on the stairs my heart stops with fear, because he'll probably will be having a fit.

I'm going to search my books again to look for something that might help.


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