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(Message started by: brain_cramps on Nov 6th, 2003, 11:34am)
Title: and you're NOT CONCERNED?
Post by brain_cramps on Nov 6th, 2003, 11:34am
Here is a few of the quotes from a thread I started about longer cycles with the use of Imitrex.

A couple of things amazed me:

- that more people didn't reply

- that the thread dropped out-of-sight as quickly as it did

- that nobody sees a pattern here     ( OR if they do, they don't care!)



on 10/29/03 at 12:31:04, Boots wrote:
i first started with ch when i was 18 (now 42) the first 12 years there where no drugs that colud touch them or doc's that knew what they were. the cluster would last 6 weeks and every ha would last for almost 1 hour to the minute,remember those ? since getting trex in the early 90's each cluster now lasts for 5 months...



on 10/29/03 at 20:05:24, brain_cramps wrote:
...since being med-free, my cycles have gone from 6-8 weeks down to 18 days last cycle...



on 10/29/03 at 19:48:57, Bob_Johnson wrote:
Just read a medical report a few days ago in which several people reported their cycles were longer after heavy Imitrex use...



on 10/29/03 at 20:21:57, jonny wrote:
...Although im chronic and never used trex until two years ago I found out that I had three times the HA's while using it, I know many here say that theres no such thing as rebounds....can anyone tell me why when I stop the trex the HA's go back to my normal pattern?...



on 10/29/03 at 20:52:41, Joanie wrote:
...I had the worst cycle ever this year.  Normal cycle is 3 months....it was well over 6 months, frequency of attacks as well as the length of each attack increased this year.  Was trying to figure out why, but I was taking different meds than I usually do.  I also used the trex nasal spray for the first time as well...



on 10/29/03 at 21:57:44, maria9 wrote:
...I have read in the literature about imitrex changing the nature of a cluster cycle, i.e. more headaches, damned if you do, get relief in short order, but then the headaches are back in full force before the normal "scheduled attack."...



on 10/29/03 at 23:35:54, JDH wrote:
...I definitely think the trex extends the cycle. When I used to do this med free my cycles were like a month to 6 weeks. I started using the trex in '97 and my cycles have gotten longer each time around.
And yeah Jonny, I'm not convinced either that it doesn't cause rebounds. It seems like the more I use the more I need...



on 10/29/03 at 23:42:06, Ree wrote:
...Daves believes this also.  When he didnt rely on meds to abort and sort of let the attacks run their course his cycles seemed shorter almost as if the CH has to get to a certain intensity before it would stop...



on 10/30/03 at 00:05:56, Patrick_A wrote:
Imitrex causes me to have more CH's and at abnormal times. If i dont take imitrex. I rarely get more than the one a night that wakes me. When i take imitrex, i get numerous CH's a day.
I've argued this topic for 3 years and everyone that argues against it wants to get technical about it. IE...Rebounds!
Call it what ya want, i get more CH's when i take Imitrex!...



on 10/30/03 at 08:56:00, LasVegas wrote:
...Past....In the past 25 years of CH's, my cycles usually skip 2 or 3 years then hits in the Fall for a couple weeks and killed by meds or goes away on it's own.

Present....this cycle has lasted 4 or 5 weeks, coincidentallt the first time I have tried Imitrex...



on 10/30/03 at 09:06:23, thomas wrote:
My cycles have been longer, with more frequent attacks while using imitrex as an abortive.  I haven't used any this cycle.  This cycle has only lasted 3 weeks with only one ch a day.  There were 3 days total that I had 2 chs...



on 10/30/03 at 09:07:31, Tim_w wrote:
...I dont know if it relates to the Trex or not
I used to get CH spring & Fall Started For 3 months
I started taking trex and they went to winter and summer now Iam Chronic
I took trex for 6 years 2 and 3 shots a day
If I take Trex now I get hit more often and harder ...



on 10/30/03 at 09:13:51, maggie_may wrote:
I can't say if it was the Imitrex or not.  Last year was the first year I was medicated for my cycle.  It was also the longest I've ever had - lasting from mid-October to mid- March...



<<     CONTINUED     >>
Title: Re: and you're NOT CONCERNED?
Post by brain_cramps on Nov 6th, 2003, 11:35am

on 10/30/03 at 13:48:42, Margi wrote:
...Mike's cycles have always been longer when meds have been involved.  I can't pinpoint it to Imitrex though, because he's done a few cycles without it.  This last one, however, he did use the nasal spray, pred burst, verap and lith combo and had his longest cycle ever, 6 months.  Unmedicated cycle prior to that, using only oxygen as an abortive was 2 - 3 months.



on 10/31/03 at 12:10:21, Unsolved wrote:
Although I am chronic...I believe the more Trex I use, the more attacks I will get (and more severe)...



on 10/31/03 at 15:44:14, miCHel wrote:
...I started using Trex regularly (very regularly) during my last cycle and it did last a few weeks more than what I usually get...






and a couple who disagreed...


on 10/29/03 at 20:15:37, paul_b wrote:
didn't notice any change in duration before or after use of Im...



on 10/30/03 at 09:47:53, Melissa wrote:
This year was the first for me medicated.  Taking 250mg Depakote, 6mg Imitrex shots, and aleve for shadows.  I had little change in my cycle duration.  It was actually like 3-5 days shorter....






Doesn't anyone see a pattern here?

and before you give me shit for misquoting you, go back and look.  These are all actual quotes.  The only difference is when a statement was qualified with something like "but it works sooooooooo good...", that was omitted.


just fucking amazed,
grant
Title: Re: and you're NOT CONCERNED?
Post by thomas on Nov 6th, 2003, 11:45am
Yeah, and I don't use trex any more.  I am surprised the thread disappeared also.  You can lead a horse to water...
Title: Re: and you're NOT CONCERNED?
Post by Bob P on Nov 6th, 2003, 11:54am
Last cluster I tried shrooms, 4 times.  It was my longest cluster bout ever!  15 weeks.  Ya think?
Title: Re: and you're NOT CONCERNED?
Post by brain_cramps on Nov 6th, 2003, 11:55am
I realize that for chronics (or episodics with LONG cycles), there may not be a better route.

just had to throw that in,
grant
Title: Re: and you're NOT CONCERNED?
Post by Mark C on Nov 6th, 2003, 11:58am
I am absoutly concerned. There is definatly a connection here somewhere....however not all Clusterheads suffer from re-bounds. I agree many do....I do not. More professionally research, controlled lab studys to scientifically PROVE with empirical data needs to be done. There may be many other factors besides Imitrex use that helps contribute to the rebounds. Are the recommedned doses being surpasssed? My Neuro limits me to one shot per day. I have taken two, but would  do 10 if I thought it would help.

There are some on this board who have used much more Trex than me and I would be curious as to their responses to this topic.

My friend Grant, I am NOT trying to argumentive....I just want the truth.

Maybe I am a bit biased simply because Imitrex works so well for me I may be a little defensive....I will examine that....however....given my current state I haven't needed Trex in two weeks now.....fungus and good old oxygen are leaving me PF.   ;;D

I wish some big University or Hospital would do a more in depth study of Imitrex and other drugs for that matter into the bottom line about rebounds.....more will be revealed...I hope. Maybe this Dr Supranow University study can shed some light on this.

Good topic, makes me think.

PFDAN's
Mark
Title: Re: and you're NOT CONCERNED?
Post by JDH on Nov 6th, 2003, 12:18pm

on 11/06/03 at 11:35:30, brain_cramps wrote:
Doesn't anyone see a pattern here?
just fucking amazed,

grant


I hear you Grant, pretty f'n amazing.
IMO (and it looks like I'm not alone) Imitrex can and does cause rebound's.

Jim
Title: Re: and you're NOT CONCERNED?
Post by Roxy on Nov 6th, 2003, 12:27pm
All I can do is compare my time without trex to the time with trex.  I am not giving up my trex.  I'm just not that tough....... :-/.

Feel a little like Charlton Heston...."You can have my trex when you pry it from my cold dead hand".....or something like that....... :)
Title: Re: and you're NOT CONCERNED?
Post by Cerberus on Nov 6th, 2003, 12:33pm
Oddly enough,

Only my second year with trex, 02, and Verapamil. None of which seem to make any difference in length and intensity of my CHs or cycle. The use of these three meds has actually made this years cycle quite a bit more tolerable. Last year at this time I was reeling on the floor 6-12 times a day. I WAS ,however, taking the full 6mg. stat dose and one immitrex pill before bed,This year with the reduced dosage, less pain, more sleeping at night, and still using plenty of O2. length of Cycle so far has been almost identical even though the times I have been getting hit are quite different. My imitrex has been far less used this year as compared to last.

Not necessarily disagreeing......but not consistant with your theory either. this year more hits during the early morning, and early evening hours than during sleep times, MY Psychologist says that my anti-depressant MIGHT be partially blocking the pain, as there is research in progress to see if it has those capabilities.

Who knows,
Ramon
Title: Re: and you're NOT CONCERNED?
Post by brain_cramps on Nov 6th, 2003, 12:34pm

on 11/06/03 at 12:27:16, Roxy wrote:
All I can do is compare my time without trex to the time with trex.  I am not giving up my trex.


I realize you're chronic.  

If I was chronic and I was gonna get hit regardless, there's no way I'd give it up either.

Episodics, on the other hand, have a choice.
Title: Re: and you're NOT CONCERNED?
Post by Mark C on Nov 6th, 2003, 12:38pm

on 11/06/03 at 12:34:24, brain_cramps wrote:
Episodics, on the other hand, have a choice.



Not when I am getting hammered.  :-/
Title: Re: and you're NOT CONCERNED?
Post by JDH on Nov 6th, 2003, 12:42pm

on 11/06/03 at 12:34:24, brain_cramps wrote:
Episodics, on the other hand, have a choice.


and my choice, http://www.clusterbusters.com/
seems to be keeping the beast outta my head this fall.
I've been pf since 2/03 and hoping to stay that way for good  ;).

Jim
Title: Re: and you're NOT CONCERNED?
Post by Mark C on Nov 6th, 2003, 12:45pm
I there with ya JD.....aint needed triptans for two weeks now! Fungus amoung us WORKS! O2 does too......I love this place. PF in the middle of Fall...never in my adult life has this happened....thanks to "Truffles"!

Mark
Title: Re: and you're NOT CONCERNED?
Post by JDH on Nov 6th, 2003, 1:25pm

on 11/06/03 at 12:45:14, Mark C wrote:
.I love this place. PF in the middle of Fall...never in my adult life has this happened....thanks to "Truffles"!

Mark


Ain't it cool Mark? I'm so looking forward hoisting a drink on New Years eve instead of poking holes in myself with 'trex needles.
Definitely a fall/winter to remember.

Jim  
Title: Re: and you're NOT CONCERNED?
Post by brain_cramps on Nov 6th, 2003, 1:42pm
Next spring ( when  IF i go into cycle --- always the optimist),  i want to get set up with o2 and fungus.   just not sure if years of "prolonged and frequent recreational use" will make a difference. (not o2 ;))

grant       8)
Title: Re: and you're NOT CONCERNED?
Post by thomas on Nov 6th, 2003, 1:49pm
I'm trying them next time too ::)
Title: Re: and you're NOT CONCERNED?
Post by DJ on Nov 6th, 2003, 1:53pm
Ok, this thread brings up a good point!

If you had to choose between one of the following:


A) Having a longer cycle, with more frequent cluster's that you know you can control in 10-15 minutes with a shot... without the pain ever going above a Kip 3-5 on the scale...

OR,

B) Having a shorter cycle, with less frequent cluster's that you know will last at least  30 minutes - 3 hours, and the pain going above a Kip 6-10 on the scale...



Which one would you choose?

Wait, I'll need to install a "poll modification" to the board for this one.........
Title: Re: and you're NOT CONCERNED?
Post by aprilbee on Nov 6th, 2003, 1:58pm
I'd have to go for "A" at least you can have some kind of life!
Title: Re: and you're NOT CONCERNED?
Post by brain_cramps on Nov 6th, 2003, 2:07pm
DJ

(B) is my answer.

About 7 years ago, I was FORCED to go med-free due to financial/legal problems.  The first couple cycles, it was tough.  Now, the only way I'd go back is if my cycles started getting longer by themselves.

While my cycles were originally around 6 - 8 weeks, I'd much rather have 18 days of 3 hr HAs than months of of short HAs.  

When the counting is in months, it is a long time to worry about when the next one will hit.  I much prefer to count in days.       ;;D

At 18 days (and hopefully shorter next time), I'm hoping to SLEEP thru it next time.   ;)

(also, never above a KIP 3 to 5? --- LMAO)

grant               8)



BTW DJ...    When a post is too long and gets an error, hitting the "Back" below the message send you back to a blank reply screen.  So does hitting the back button of your browser.       >:(    

Eventually ended up composing that pile of quotes in Notepad instead.     Not complaining... just warning the next person.
Title: Re: and you're NOT CONCERNED?
Post by JDH on Nov 6th, 2003, 2:10pm

on 11/06/03 at 13:42:54, brain_cramps wrote:
Next spring ( [s]  just not sure if years of "prolonged and frequent recreational use" will make a difference. (not o2 ;))

grant       8)


Grant,
I've also done my fair share recreationally in the past and as far as I can tell it hasn't made a difference.

DJ,
Until you get the poll up I'd say if I had to pick I guess I'd take the longer cycle w/less pain.
I did it med free for 12 years w/shorter cycles but those suckers REALLY hurt and I don't EVER want to go through that again.

Jim
Title: Re: and you're NOT CONCERNED?
Post by thomas on Nov 6th, 2003, 2:35pm
My first 5 years were med-free 6-15 total attacks over 3-4 weeks.  Went to a Dr. because I couldn't take it anymore.  They gave me imitrex.  I thought WOW!  Proceded to have 4-5 attacks a day for 2-3 months.  I did this for 4 years.  Now I said screw imitrex and have had a 3 week cylce again.  My choice, and I stress that it is my choice, is not to take trex again.  I have had good results with amerge and zomig - Those will be the abortives I use in the future.
Title: Re: and you're NOT CONCERNED?
Post by Mark C on Nov 6th, 2003, 2:43pm

on 11/06/03 at 14:35:21, thomas wrote:
My first 5 years were med-free 6-15 total attacks over 3-4 weeks.  Went to a Dr. because I couldn't take it anymore.  They gave me imitrex.  I thought WOW!  Proceded to have 4-5 attacks a day for 2-3 months.  I did this for 4 years.  Now I said screw imitrex and have had a 3 week cylce again.  My choice, and I stress that it is my choice, is not to take trex again.  I have had good results with amerge and zomig - Those will be the abortives I use in the future.


I think Thomas makes an excellent point.....very few things have worked for everyone....hell has anything worked for everyone? The key seems to be patience and educating yourself and maybe your Doctor and keep fighting.

Personally, I am for WHATEVER works.....bar no treatment just because it didn't help you personally. In 27 years I have yet to find the "magic cocktail" to prevent CH. All I can do is abort...but I still can hope  ;;D

Mark
Title: Re: and you're NOT CONCERNED?
Post by Jimi on Nov 6th, 2003, 3:18pm
 Well I have never taken Trex and my cluster cycle have gotten longer and longer the last few times. From once a year, lasting 6 weeks to the last two cycles that went 3 years but lasted 6 mos both times. Keep in mine I have had these over 30 years and the times end between have been longer and longer. The bad news of course is that when they DO come they stay around longer. I think as I have gotten older, and my arteries and vessels are not as flexible as they were when I was younger that they don't expand and dialate as they once did. I guess that is not a good thing. As of right now, I am 3 1/2 years pain free and as before, hoping that I have outgrown them. For me, it wasn't the Trex that seemed to be causing more frequent headaches but it coincided with when I started using O2.
 
Go figure,
Jimi
Title: Re: and you're NOT CONCERNED?
Post by thomas on Nov 6th, 2003, 3:22pm
Thanks, Mark C.  I think you have to keep experimenting untill you find what works best for YOU.  You and I agree 100% on that.  I know there are some here who can only get relief from trex - No question if I was in that boat I would still take it.  But I'm not and I wont.  And I'm not saying anyone else has to change, but if another abortive works for someone they should at least try it in leiu of the trex.  Hey Jimi have you ever tried melatonin?
Title: Re: and you're NOT CONCERNED?
Post by Jimi on Nov 6th, 2003, 5:05pm
Nope, never tried it. It has been discussed here from time to time. Especially 2-3 years ago. Mixed results as I remember.
Jimi
Title: Re: and you're NOT CONCERNED?
Post by thomas on Nov 6th, 2003, 5:24pm
Just like everything - mixed results, but hey it's real cheap.
Title: Re: and you're NOT CONCERNED?
Post by Big_Dan on Nov 6th, 2003, 5:54pm
... I haven't used 'trex enough to tell you if it's making it worse or not...


Only thing I know, is that it works now, and I'm not getting off of it until it stops.


When your talking about a k-10, it's 'trex and O2, or a .40 hollowpoint.... and I much rather like the 'trex.



-Big Dan
Title: Re: and you're NOT CONCERNED?
Post by Prense on Nov 6th, 2003, 6:22pm
I think several issues are possibly being mixed into this.  I know that Patrick and I had a discussion about trex and more CH hits.  He told me that he felt that he was getting significantly more CH hits while using imitrex.  Now, is that a rebound HA?

There are definately documents that claim imitrex can cause rebound HAs, but is that the same as additional CH attacks?

Then you have people saying their cycles seem to have become longer since imitrex usage.

I am fairly certain that I do not go out on a limb too far by saying that it is a proven fact that all medications are not for everyone.

I had a shitty experience with Topamax...that doesn't mean that it's a shitty med.  Some people are doing well with it.

Then, there's the verapamil issue...claims that it too is increasing cycle duration.  There are some who say this is true, and there are some who say this is definately not the case.  How many of these people are taking verapamil and imitrex at the same time?

Personally, my 10 year bout with CH chronically has seen several "pattern" changes.  In the past few years I have been getting hit harder and more frequent than I did for the first 7 or so years.  That was prior to taking any medications for CH.  Now that I am on medications constantly, I still see the pattern changes...I have bad months, and I have worse months.  Some of these "pattern" changes occur with no change in medication at all.

If these medications were not in question or in use, would people still experience longer or shorter cycle durations?  I believe so.  It's kind of like the placebo effect.  I am in no way suggesting that imitrex and/or verapamil do not add to CH hits, duration or rebounds.  I am just saying that the way these medications affect us all varies.

My answer to DJ's question is that I would much rather have control over the beast.  Kip 3-5...I'll take that any day over this shit.  

Seriously, if a medication isn't accomplishing a reduction in frequency, severity and/or duration, I keep looking.  Additionally, if a medication disables me in an unacceptable manner, I keep looking.

For me, that's what it's all about.

Chris
Title: Re: and you're NOT CONCERNED?
Post by maria9 on Nov 6th, 2003, 6:51pm
Here is the study I was referring to.  Yes, the sample size is low, but I have not come across any other studies that address this issue.

: Headache. 2000 Jan;40(1):41-4.  
 
Alteration in nature of cluster headache during subcutaneous administration of sumatriptan.

Hering-Hanit R.

Headache Unit, Department of Neurology, Meir General Hospital, Kfar Sava, and the Sackler Faculty of Medicine, Tel Aviv University, Israel.

OBJECTIVES: To document the relationship between the 5-HT receptor agonist sumatriptan and a change in the nature of cluster headache in four cases. To relate the findings to the literature on the use of sumatriptan in both cluster headache and migraine. BACKGROUND: Studies of the efficacy and adverse effects of long-term treatment with sumatriptan in cluster headache are limited and report conflicting findings. METHODS: Four cases are described. RESULTS: All four patients developed a marked increase in the frequency of attacks 3 to 4 weeks after initiating treatment with the drug for the first time. Three patients also developed a change in headache character, and 2 experienced prolongation of the cluster headache period. Withdrawal of the drug reduced the frequency of headaches and eliminated the newly developed type of headache. CONCLUSIONS: Determination of the effects of long-term use of sumatriptan will result in more precise guidelines for the frequency and duration of treatment with this otherwise extremely beneficial drug.

PMID: 10759902 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Maria  :)
Title: Re: and you're NOT CONCERNED?
Post by Mark C on Nov 6th, 2003, 8:31pm
And then you have.............
"Sumatriptan overuse in episodic cluster headache: lack of adverse events, rebound syndromes, drug dependence and tachyphylaxis.

Centonze V, Bassi A, Causarano V, Dalfino L, Cassiano MA, Centonze A, Fabbri L, Albano O.

Dept of Internal Medicine and Public Medicine, University of Bari, Italy.

This observational study was designed to examine the pattern of sumatriptan use in patients with cluster headache using more than the recommended daily dose of subcutaneously injected (s.c.) sumatriptan. Thirteen patients suffering from episodic cluster headache were asked to record the characteristics of their attacks and drug intake for 1 year. All reported a high daily frequency of attacks (more than 3 per day) and the related overuse of s.c. sumatriptan. The results show that the overall incidence of adverse events among patients receiving sumatriptan injections for the treatment of cluster headache is low. The extended administration of this drug in episodic cluster headache did not result in tolerance problems or tachyphylaxis. Only 4 patients experienced minor adverse events and recovered more slowly than the others. They suffered from migraine without aura and cluster headache, and showed a family history of migraine. Even though they must be viewed with caution, due to the observational nature of the study and the low number of patients included, these results suggest that the profile of sumatriptan may differ in cluster headache compared with migraine."

O.U.C.H. Article (http://www.clusterheadaches.org/library/medications/imitrex_rebound.htm)



I still believe migraine and cluster rebound to be seperate and sometimes it is easily confused.

I still want the scientific proof.....good old double blind studies.....on us, like Charlie says...I would volunteer, would you?

PFDAN's
Mark  
Title: Re: and you're NOT CONCERNED?
Post by Just Deb on Nov 6th, 2003, 8:56pm
In my 25 years, episodic, I used two low dose imitrex pills during a cycle, which I didn't feel really helped. I shot myself once during a different cycle. Didn't help either.
But I can definately say that over the years my cycles have gotten-longer in length, way worse in severity, the attacks are longer and less frequent, but still several a day.
I remember one cycle many years ago, before I discovered any meds to use at all, where they were really bad, and each one seemed to get worse until I had the worst ever, then the cycle stopped for 2 years.  It was like a grand finale had to happen for the cycle to end.
I now use Procardia and Zomig. Cycles 3-4 months.

And DJ, I would definately pick B.
Title: Re: and you're NOT CONCERNED?
Post by Mr.Happy on Nov 6th, 2003, 8:57pm

on 11/06/03 at 20:31:00, Mark C wrote:
I still want the scientific proof.....good old double blind studies.....on us,

Piss off, Mark. I ain't eating no Placebo's just to give validity to pharmicopical(sp?) Uhmerika.
I done DJ's "B"........never again.
I'm choosing "A"...........the salvation I found when this place finally hit home. Better living thru chemicals.

Cluster (http://www.clusterbusters.com) this Buster (http://www.clusterbusters.com),
RJ
Title: Re: and you're NOT CONCERNED?
Post by Opus on Nov 6th, 2003, 9:40pm
Grant,
   Your thread was about Imitrex use, so i didn't post to it. I am in a cycle that I haven't used any imitrex or any other perscription drug, it is now 3 months longer than normal, I do have an abortive and it probably has vascular constrictive properties so there maybe something about using abortives.

So far I have been able to abort all CH's quickly except for the one week where it didn't work. I now have 6 imitrex ready in case it happens again. I do wish I could try to go completely abortive free but as we discussed before there are peaple depending on me.

Opus/Paul
Title: Re: and you're NOT CONCERNED?
Post by Mark C on Nov 6th, 2003, 10:21pm
Dammit Randy,
You're killing me...I just spit all over my monitor......hell...I have changed my mind...better living through chemistry......enough of the dark ages eh!

Besides, it was Charlie's idea!  ;;D

LMFAO!
I love you man!
Mark-with-the-really-good-sense-of-smell-now!
Title: Re: and you're NOT CONCERNED?
Post by Mastifflvr28 on Nov 6th, 2003, 10:29pm
A

Mast
Title: Yo,
Post by drnoe on Nov 6th, 2003, 10:46pm
yo,
I haven't used Imitrex.
To DJ's A or B I haveta ask,
ARE WE TALKING ABOUT THE SAME THING HERE????
Between attacks I used to toy with the idea of using will power alone.Never happened. Not voluntarily.
This isn't a week with a broken leg versus a month with a sprained ankle.
Would you care for anesthesia for your brain surgery?
Either there's some muy tough hombres among us or our KIP scale is relative.
peace
Title: Re: and you're NOT CONCERNED?
Post by cootie on Nov 6th, 2003, 11:13pm
Hmmmmmmm.........when Brad started out he was hit twice a day like clockwork with no meds.......once he started imitrex he got hit a pa-zillion times a day but I think he'd take a lotta pain shorter 'longer' then alota pain longer 'shorter' ! Pam that knows Brad would answer with a CAPITAL " A "
Title: Re: and you're NOT CONCERNED?
Post by Patrick_A on Nov 7th, 2003, 12:32am
I'd love to see a study done on Imitrex use with CH's. But i really don't need it because i am 100% positive that Imitrex gives me more CH's, Longer CH's and Longer cycles.
But when i am writhing in pain, and i have a Imitex Nasal spray in front of me, I cannot help myself. I am absolutely going to use it.
Thank God i was able to find the Prednisone and Verapamil combination this year. It will be my 1st choice when my next cycle hits!

Patrick
Title: Re: and you're NOT CONCERNED?
Post by cootie on Nov 7th, 2003, 1:09am
What would you all do if they totally BANNED imitrex and sumatriptans cuz of overuse other then indicated that is consider'd safe to use on the med insert. Hopefully it'll be a cold day in hell b-4 that happens but....jus a thought ! Pam with a big 'what if' line
Title: Re: and you're NOT CONCERNED?
Post by J.ten_Dam on Nov 7th, 2003, 5:29am

on 11/07/03 at 00:32:55, Patrick_A wrote:
I'd love to see a study done on Imitrex use with CH's.
Patrick

Trax or Imigran in my case does keep us buisy dose it not?
[smiley=sayyes.gif]
I placed a link to the manufacturers of Imigran where they do survays. Like I mentiond before I sent them an e-mail and was answered the following day by phone kall. Why dont you all send your own experiences and thought as wel wishes of spesific studies. and see what they answer. Just talking about it among ourslvs does not solve the issue does it? Let   do a survay based on all the findings posted here above.
Now go and send what you just posted http://www.gsk.nl/watwedoen/klinischonderzoek and see what happens. [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
Title: Re: and you're NOT CONCERNED?
Post by brain_cramps on Nov 7th, 2003, 6:59am

on 11/07/03 at 01:09:10, cootie wrote:
What would you all do if they totally BANNED imitrex and sumatriptans cuz of overuse other then indicated...
Pam...    I'd NEVER want to see that happen because of all of my friends that find temporary relief from it.  Also, a choice like that should be entirely up to the individual.


on 11/07/03 at 01:09:10, cootie wrote:
...that is consider'd safe to use on the med insert...
Not quite sure what you mean by "med insert".   ???

grant                 8)
Title: Re: and you're NOT CONCERNED?
Post by cootie on Nov 7th, 2003, 10:55am
Grant.....med insert........that piece of paper that usually comes with meds that has all that mal-larky on it bout side effects and do's and don'ts and chemical makeup type jazz. Since they have indications of how much should or can be taken a day with most stuff (otherwise it is consider'd bein abused or dangerous) what if it was discover'd too many people were takein way too much so they banned it or restricted it totally and out of the doctors hands to presribe more. I know.......I prolly ain't makein a whole lotta sense here. Just a 'what if deal' that's all. Pam that isn't real knowedgeable on "what if laws" and wording  
Title: Re: and you're NOT CONCERNED?
Post by Patrick_A on Nov 7th, 2003, 11:55am
Hey, I went 22 years without Meds. I could do it again if there wasnt anything out there.
I compare it to having surgery, after you are put in Intensive care, you are given a button to push when you are in pain. I doubt anybody just chose to live with their pain. LMAO!

Patrick
Title: Re: and you're NOT CONCERNED?
Post by Boots on Nov 7th, 2003, 1:17pm
I am very concerned,2 nero's said ch changes with age,I said it changed with trex,1 nero had me get a heart stress test because of the amount of trex I was using.30mg + in 24 hours.
Title: Re: and you're NOT CONCERNED?
Post by Unsolved on Nov 7th, 2003, 2:31pm
Doctors at MHNI are all in agreement that Imitrex can cause rebounds and it is taught there in 'classes' at Chelsea Hospital.

BUT
It is the ONLY abortive I have found that works for me everytime (besides being totally drugged out to almost unconsciousness) ... So, I have NO CHOICE but to use it and use it often. I could not image going without it (Anywhere).
"NO CHOICE"
Title: Re: and you're NOT CONCERNED?
Post by brain_cramps on Nov 7th, 2003, 2:51pm

on 11/07/03 at 10:55:15, cootie wrote:
Grant.....med insert........that piece of paper that usually comes with meds that has all that mal-larky on it bout side effects and do's and don'ts and chemical makeup type jazz...

Pam

thx, but i don't even know if we have those in Canada or if its something relatively new.    other than pain-killers for a shattered heel, its been YEARS since i've had any prescription drugs of any kind.

BTW - As of Dec 1, I am finally eligible for gov't healthcare.   first time since around 1997 (i think).  just one of the perks of going bankrupt and moving to a different province.  ;)

grant
Title: Re: and you're NOT CONCERNED?
Post by eyes_afire on Nov 7th, 2003, 6:32pm

Quote:
What would you all do if they totally BANNED imitrex and sumatriptans cuz of overuse other then indicated that is consider'd safe to use on the med insert.


Excellent point.  That's why I wince at this topic.  If the insurance companies ever run with the idea that imitrex makes things worse, then you can bet that it will be much harder to get imitrex coverage (although it's pretty damn hard now).  Maybe the choice should be up to the individual, but it won't be.  Money talks.

--- Steve
Title: Re: Yo,
Post by Not4Hire on Nov 7th, 2003, 9:55pm

Quote:
A) Having a longer cycle, with more frequent cluster's that you know you can control in 10-15 minutes with a shot... without the pain ever going above a Kip 3-5 on the scale...    

B) Having a shorter cycle, with less frequent cluster's that you know will last at least  30 minutes - 3 hours, and the pain going above a Kip 6-10 on the scale...




on 11/06/03 at 22:46:32, drnoe wrote:
yo,
I haven't used Imitrex.
To DJ's A or B I haveta ask,
ARE WE TALKING ABOUT THE SAME THING HERE????
Between attacks I used to toy with the idea of using will power alone.Never happened. Not voluntarily.
This isn't a week with a broken leg versus a month with a sprained ankle.
Would you care for anesthesia for your brain surgery?
Either there's some muy tough hombres among us or our KIP scale is relative.
peace



..sorta sounds like the ol' : would you rather die by drowning/suffocation vs.  burning at the stake/trapped in a burning car....

I say: Get-it-the-fuck-over-with... this MOFO takes enough away from my life when I'm in cycle...

...the DEGREE over TIME equation .... yer just trying to measure an UN-measureable amount of PAIN...

Quality vs. Quantity

gimme quality?

(aside to chronics: I beg your pardon...  YOUR MOFO is beyond my understanding... you are  
Quote:
muy tough hombres


and the KIP scale *is* relative and subjective... IMNSHO

best, notfer....
Title: Re: and you're NOT CONCERNED?
Post by drnoe on Nov 8th, 2003, 9:59am
Yup,
I don't dis agree with the quality versus quantity argument. It just never seemed like an option.
Before coming here I only knew one other clusterhead and the idea of not medicating was like fantasizing bout winning the lottery.
Maybe I'll try it next time
Now that I know they exist I agree that the chronics and "under" medicaters are VERY TOUGH.
And so are every other CHer. Gotta be .
Man. Imagine if having CH was part of Marine basic training.
peace


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