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(Message started by: brain_cramps on Oct 25th, 2003, 1:59pm)
Title: more fun with Micro-Slop...
Post by brain_cramps on Oct 25th, 2003, 1:59pm
so... after a couple of days of preparation (gathering drivers, backing up, etc...), I finally work up the nerve to install Windows Server 2003.

I get to the end of the EULA (licenseing agreement) and the prompt asks: "F8 = I agree     ESC = I don't agree"

I press F8 repeatedly...

It appears that my MICROSOFT keyboard is not being recognized.

::)

un-fucking-believable

grant       [smiley=damncomputer.gif] [smiley=sayno.gif] [smiley=mad.gif] [smiley=crash.gif]
Title: Re: more fun with Micro-Slop
Post by Kirk on Oct 25th, 2003, 2:17pm
Ahem, uh is it on the HCL? You did check the HCL? Right?

Why don't don't you use what M$ uses?

FreeBSD 4.8/Apache 2.0

I mean it works for them, why not you.

Not that I want to turn you from the Evil Empire in Redmond you understand. After all I still have 3 NT 4.0 SP6 Machines.

My quad Xeon 1.8 Ghz machine gets along famously with RH 8.0

Just my .002 cents on it YMMV.

kjones@bridgelaw.com

Because the man on the bridge makes the law on this boat.

TTFN

Kirk
Title: Re: more fun with Micro-Slop...
Post by brain_cramps on Oct 25th, 2003, 2:32pm
Yep --- I did check the HCL!   LMMFAO!!!

Plugged in an old IBM keyboard, and awaaaaaay we go.

If I had my choice, I wouldn't be taking Microsoft courses.  It just happens that's where the majority of jobs are.

LMAO at the thoroughness of their testing,
grant
Title: Re: more fun with Micro-Slop...
Post by Opus on Oct 25th, 2003, 3:20pm
Brain Cramps,
   It is probably just a bad micro$oft keyboard, If they can't make software then how are they going to make good hardware. I hope you are learning the open source side too, they seem to be slowly spreading world wide. I'm sure the USA will be the last holdout, kind of like our measurment system, but Canada I'm sure will switch over someday.

Opus/Paul

Hey Kirk I converted your signature from ASCII, Yes most of them are.
Title: Re: more fun with Micro-Slop...
Post by Kirk on Oct 25th, 2003, 5:38pm
Rats Paul didn't think you would bother translating it on the weekend [smiley=sgrin.gif]

Think I could get Grant to buy into:

2 + 2 = 5 (for extremely large values of 2)? If one is convinced then that is proof alone. Ain't it.
Let's lose these archaic math models.

Up the revolution and all that stuff.

Back to my cornor. Now where did I put that bottle of Rum.

nmap was interesting now let's what nessus has to say.

IOIOIO it's off I go. Fear, Panic Chaos are my friends.

TTFN

Kirk
Title: Re: more fun with Micro-Slop...
Post by brain_cramps on Oct 26th, 2003, 7:34am

on 10/25/03 at 17:38:57, Kirk wrote:
Think I could get Grant to buy into:

2 + 2 = 5 (for extremely large values of 2)?

Bwaaaaa-haaaaa-haaaaa!!!     [smiley=crackup.gif]

I'm not quite ready to "buy into" your "new math" just yet.  Maybe if I was looking for work in a small, independent web-development shop, but its not very often you see the widespread use of Linux in the infrastructures of oil companies, banks, government departments, etc...  Somehow, I think they are still more comfortable with the idea of "paid professionals" writing the operating systems that their futures rely on, as opposed to some amateur programmer from India, China (or wherever) who has never seen the inside of a corporate datacenter.  (even if the "paid professional" works for a greedy egomaniac who puts more value in his "marketing machine" than in actual technological advancements).

Besides...  most of the work I've done in the last few years has been in an Oracle/UNIX environment, but even that seems to be changing.  It just seems that most larger companies are leaning towards the "one-stop-shopping" philosophy of Microsoft (even if once they have you "roped into" their way of doing things, they can raise prices however much and whenever they want with only incremental functional benefits.)

sitting here, undecided (and able to argue either side ;) ),
grant                 8)
Title: Re: more fun with Micro-Slop...
Post by Opus on Oct 26th, 2003, 10:07am
Kirk,
  I was going to wait until I had more time to decode, figured I would have to put it in an assembler and then view it in Hiew, but I got the idea to got to google, I found a site and quickly decoded it. Also I thought that 2+2=1984.

Brain Cramps,
  Sorry but your post sounds like it was written by Bill Gates himself. I am still new to Linux/Gnu, I have worked with it in the past but wasn't able to over come hardware problems. I have worked with whatever OS they used on the Vax at college. I have just installed Linux/Gnu-Mandrake on a older box and was surprised how easy it was to set up. And talk about one stop shopping, every app. I could possible need comes with the operating system, the hardest part will be to decide which ones work best for me. It comes with many office tools, networking, programming tools, shells, firewall,  and much more. And this is from the three free ISO's I downloaded, I can't Imagine what comes with the 7 CD's you can pay for, With support included.

 Now just Imagine if Micro$oft changed there operating system to open source, or even just stop resisting all outside attempts at improving their products. Some of those hug patches for XP were fixed by others before Micro$oft noticed them and were written very small and uninstall able. Bill Gates is a brilliant man but his fatal flaw seems that he surrounds himself with less intelligent people, to help his ego, but he is just one man, so his products are junk. I have strived to Improve win98, for a while, but since I am not a programer I have to rely on others fixes and test and use them. I have a shell replacer that actually lets me uninstall IE. With Linux, I can easily replace the shell, update Kernels, and even run without the shell.
 If I seem a little hostile it may because I was trying to set up a backup for my mothers machine running  XPpro and the backup program keeps crashing and it takes the OS with it. So basically the one useful program that comes with the OS seems to be incompatible, probably because of service pack 1.

  Also a lot of people get paid to work on the different packages that Linux is sold under, I'm sure IBM pays it's workers and even Micro$oft has a Linux division, and some Linux distributions are not free to download, they have to offer free source code but you may have to type it in and compile.

 I have a friend who has his own IT company and he still uses win98 at home for his primary OS. He doesn't want to try Linux/Gnu because non of his customers use it. He wants to be able to use the  hair pulling experiences at home to help him on the job. Most of his customers use NT because they don't want to deal with the cost and trouble with upgrading.

Opus/Paul
Title: Re: more fun with Micro-Slop...
Post by brain_cramps on Oct 26th, 2003, 11:38am

on 10/26/03 at 10:07:52, Opus wrote:
Brain Cramps,
  Sorry but your post sounds like it was written by Bill Gates himself.


on 10/21/03 at 06:43:20, brain_cramps wrote:
you might want to look at some of the other "jokes" our beloved Uncle Bill has pulled on us lately.

Products that :
(a) have had price increases of more than 25% while having functionality removed
(b) have more than doubled in price
(c) have been discontinued causing the consumer to endure (b)
(d) are known security threats and have been needlessly been intertwined into the operating system, without the option of uninstalling.  (kinda like leaving the front-door to your house open, putting an "open-house" sign on your lawn, and going on vacation)

While I can see why you are pissed, I think there are more important problems arising from this guy that only made ...ummm...   ...errr...     about 3 BILLION dollars last year!
I don't think I'd be talking about my OWN product line that way    ;)

Also...  I can only WISH i made 3 BILLION dollars last year.  ;)    




on 10/26/03 at 10:07:52, Opus wrote:
I am still new to Linux/Gnu, I have worked with it in the past but wasn't able to over come hardware problems.
I agree Linux has come a LONG way in the past 5 years.  I remember watching a couple of co-workers trying to impress a steering-committee with it and having it crash in the first 2 minutes.   Made for a pretty short demo when the chair of the committee said "Hmmmmm...   and EXACTLY why should we move away from Windows?"




on 10/26/03 at 10:07:52, Opus wrote:
I have worked with whatever OS they used on the Vax at college.
Probably VMS or Open VMS.  (maybe even a flavor of UNIX.)   I've worked with VAX/VMS a lot in the past and always found it easy to use.  I was disappointed to see it phased out of most shops because of its relatively inefficient use of resources.  About 15 yrs ago, I saw a MicroVAX (that was designed for up to 10 users) with one person on it, being outperformed by a Toshiba laptop.    LMAO     and there haven’t been a lot of improvements made to that line (as far as any clients of mine have mentioned.   Most of them went to client/server years ago.)





on 10/26/03 at 10:07:52, Opus wrote:
I have just installed Linux/Gnu-Mandrake on a older box and was surprised how easy it was to set up.
   Yep, Its amazing the improvements made to Linux over the last 5 years.




on 10/26/03 at 10:07:52, Opus wrote:
And talk about one stop shopping, every app. I could possible need comes with the operating system, the hardest part will be to decide which ones work best for me. It comes with many office tools, networking, programming tools...
If you are in an environment that primarily uses MS products and these don’t do everything exactly like their MS counterpart, they aren’t of much use.     (When was the last time you heard anyone mention Wordperfect, Quattro, or even Lotus 123?       or any Borland product, Powerbuilder, or even Sybase?)




on 10/26/03 at 10:07:52, Opus wrote:
Now just Imagine if Micro$oft changed there operating system to open source...
hmmm…  

on 10/26/03 at 07:34:05, brain_cramps wrote:
... a greedy egomaniac who puts more value in his "marketing machine" than in actual technological advancements...








on 10/26/03 at 10:07:52, Opus wrote:
Some of those huge patches for XP were fixed by others before Micro$oft noticed them and were written very small and uninstallable.
huh ?





on 10/26/03 at 10:07:52, Opus wrote:
Bill Gates is a brilliant man but his fatal flaw seems that he surrounds himself with less intelligent people, to help his ego, but he is just one man, so his products are junk.
again...

on 10/26/03 at 07:34:05, brain_cramps wrote:
... a greedy egomaniac who puts more value in his "marketing machine" than in actual technological advancements...




<<<<<     CONTINUED     >>>>>
Title: Re: more fun with Micro-Slop...
Post by brain_cramps on Oct 26th, 2003, 11:39am

on 10/26/03 at 10:07:52, Opus wrote:
so his products are junk.
Pretty big generalization, isn't it?


on 10/26/03 at 10:07:52, Opus wrote:
Most of his customers use NT because they don't want to deal with the cost and trouble with upgrading.
So, I take it NT is a piece of junk...    ;)








on 10/26/03 at 10:07:52, Opus wrote:
I have strived to Improve win98, for a while, but since I am not a programer I have to rely on others fixes and test and use them. I have a shell replacer that actually lets me uninstall IE. With Linux, I can easily replace the shell, update Kernels, and even run without the shell.
The average non-programmer is generally lost when trying to do much of anything in Linux (or UNIX...).  They appreciate the familiarity and general ease-of-use of Windows.


on 10/26/03 at 10:07:52, Opus wrote:
...they have to offer free source code but you may have to type it in and compile.
and that's user-friendly?     Just imagine millions of non-programmers typing in source-code and compiling.   The support-lines would be backed up for a century.











on 10/26/03 at 10:07:52, Opus wrote:
If I seem a little hostile it may because I was trying to set up a backup for my mothers machine running  XPpro and the backup program keeps crashing and it takes the OS with it. So basically the one useful program that comes with the OS seems to be incompatible, probably because of service pack 1.
Been there, done that.   AND IT SUCKED!!!!!







on 10/26/03 at 10:07:52, Opus wrote:
I have a friend who has his own IT company and he still uses win98 at home for his primary OS. He doesn't want to try Linux/Gnu because non of his customers use it. He wants to be able to use the  hair pulling experiences at home to help him on the job. Most of his customers use NT because they don't want to deal with the cost and trouble with upgrading.
Until VERY recently, all I used at home was 98 and I was very happy with it.  I haven't found TOO MANY REAL problems with XP (Home or Pro), but there are a couple of REALLY ANNOYING ONES!

If none of my customers were using Linux, I wouldn't waste my time with it (from a business stand-point).

After less than a day with Server 2003 (the first few hours were pretty rough because of a keyboard and built-in network adaptor that weren't found), I am already realizing that comparing NT and Server 2003 is like comparing a '62 Cadillac and a 2003 Lexus.  One was great in its own time, but can't really be compared with the other.

sorry to be a little long-winded and heavy on the quotes, but i was just having a bit of fun.  ;)      Now its back to configuring DHCP, DNS, WINS, etc...

grant    (who didn't make 3 billion last year     OR           Uncle Bill who gets CHs from supporting products that aren't 100% complete  ;) )
Title: Re: more fun with Micro-Slop...
Post by nancyc on Oct 26th, 2003, 11:44am
:DDont feel bad, bro..i am having problems just logging into Earthlink LMAO....still having to use my AOL....still want to tackle the job of tutoring me now?  :Dnancyc
Title: Re: more fun with Micro-Slop...
Post by Opus on Oct 26th, 2003, 12:01pm
Nancyc,
  Converting from AOL isn't too hard the hardest part is removing all of there junk from your system, you just have to type in some information into the internet wizzard. I am assuming that eartlink doesn't have a software package. They should send you a information package that will include some screen shots to help you. If you have the information you need and have winddows 98 I can make some for you, let me know what you need.

Opus/Paul
Title: Re: more fun with Micro-Slop...
Post by nancyc on Oct 26th, 2003, 12:16pm
Gateway restored my computer...it has been wiped clean..i lost everything...so i put earthlink on it...i got so screwed up on it last nite, i logged on to AOL again too...i am such a blonde that i cant seem to get the hang of it...or i am just addicted to AOL..dont know which...but I dont feel AOL gives me enough protection against viruses and spyware...I added the Norton internet security program with the firewall, spyware and everything but was told it did not work good with AOL but does with Earthlink....what do you think? I have three free months with Earthlink and AOl so i can decide which i want to stay with... :Dnancyc
Title: Re: more fun with Micro-Slop...
Post by Opus on Oct 26th, 2003, 1:08pm

on 10/26/03 at 11:38:56, brain_cramps wrote:
If you are in an environment that primarily uses MS products and these don't do everything exactly like their MS counterpart, they aren't of much use.     (When was the last time you heard anyone mention Wordperfect, Quattro, or even Lotus 123?       or any Borland product, Powerbuilder, or even Sybase?)


Actually I have seen places that only use Micro$oft for the OS, for the apps they use products that are easier to use like Novel, Correl, and others, others places just stick with Macs, the software is limited but it is so easy to use. I have used wordperfect, it is easy but unstable, now I use the Win32 version of Abiword, stable and very useful. I'm sure the big Bussniesses use all M$ products but there aren't any left around here. I actually worked in a State facility that used Win95 because the custom software they had written for them would only work on it, and they are unable to convince the higher-ups to have it redesigned.





on 10/26/03 at 10:07:52, Opus wrote:
Some of those hug patches for XP were fixed by others before Micro$oft noticed them and were written very small and uninstall able.


on 10/26/03 at 11:38:56, brain_cramps wrote:
huh ?


http://grc.com/freepopular.htm has some fix's for win200/xp, I have more links somewhere.




on 10/26/03 at 10:07:52, Opus wrote:
and some Linux distributions are not free to download, they have to offer free source code but you may have to type it in and compile.



on 10/26/03 at 11:39:11, brain_cramps wrote:
and that's user-friendly?     Just imagine millions of non-programmers typing in source-code and compiling.   The support-lines would be backed up for a century.


No, they don't want you to type it in they want you to buy the Disk. And most Linux users just download install and upgrade rather than recompiling the kernel.





on 10/26/03 at 10:07:52, Opus wrote:
so his products are junk.


on 10/26/03 at 11:39:11, brain_cramps wrote:
Pretty big generalization, isn't it?

So, I take it NT is a piece of junk...    ;)


Actually "junk" was poor choice of words, "unstable" and "not user friendly" are better. Imagine if Bill built cars, if it stalled you would have to close the windows before restarting and you would find the headlight switch in the glove compartment.

Talking with ITers and Microcomputer repairers,  most say that Win98/NT was the best that M$ has made so far. It seems to me that XP is a combination of  Win98 and Win2000 with a bunch of subroutines to stabilize it, but at a huge cost in resources.

It has been great debating this and I do realize you are caught in the middle with little choice in what you have to work with.

Opus/Paul


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