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Title: Religion and CH?? Post by Turts on Oct 3rd, 2003, 8:20am Before I start this post, it in no means is meant to cause any disrepect to any readers. It is a genuine question. I come from a country where religion does not play as strong a part in the community and culture as it seems to in the US (where it seems most clusterheads seem to post from.) Here it is a family preference and upbringing rather than a community culture. I see many genuine blessings and prayers being offered to others, and this has made me pose the question. How many sufferers and supports have found religion since experiencing this illness? I ask because I am experiencing my THIRD cycle since April, and this has me asking the questions of why am I here, What is my purpose in life. And these answers only seem to be answered by religion. Again, this post means no disrespect to individuals or groups, it is a genuine enquiry. Thanking you in advance for your posts Turts |
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Title: Re: Religion and CH?? Post by Carl_D on Oct 3rd, 2003, 11:41am Hmm... Actually, I was a 'christian' for a long time. Went to church all the time. After becoming chronic, I began questioning my faith. About three years ago, I started questioning the existence of a true god. In my own personal perspective conclusion, I came to consider this: A true loving, caring, merciful god would not afflict 'his people' with sickness, disease and agonizing pain. It is argued that this imperfection came into the world by sin, and sin came in by the devil; a being in which 'god' created. If god was perfect and just, this being would never had been created. If you have six plants, and you know one is poisonous, are you gonna put it in your garden? Thus, god would then be imperfect, and so our account of him has to be untrue. Sorry if this offends anyone, but I simply cannot believe in a god who would damn a world to hell based on the choice to blindly believe or not. To believe in that means I would have to believe alot of good people will spend eternity in agony just for believing something else. I respect other peoples beliefs, and if they choose to believe in a god, that is fine. I believe in energies, because they are real. I believe there is an unseen realm. I believe some christian philosiphies as well as bhuddist and wiccan. I do try to live by the golden rule; to treat others as I would have them treat me. Okay, enough about that. Peace, Carl D |
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Title: Re: Religion and CH?? Post by Hirvimaki on Oct 3rd, 2003, 12:13pm Turts, This could well be a slippery slope, so I will tread carefully. I am a religious person. By that I mean I have a comfortable belief in and faith in God. I was raised Catholic, but no longer define myself by (what I consider to be) that limiting and confining standard. I have gone through many phases of belief and disbelief in God and all things spiritual. The effect that CH has had on my beliefs has been very minimal, other than to strengthen my faith. I know there are people who say that God could not exist because of things such as CH, or that a God who allows such a thing to occur is an uncaring God. To this I actually have very little to say (OK, I really could say quite a lot, but this is not the proper forum for it). Spirituality is a very personal thing. For some, having that faith can be the extra strength they need to cope with and live with adversity. For others, this is not the case. My suggestion to you would be this: If you find yourself searching for something, LOOK. If you can find comfort and strength within a religion - be it Christianity, Buddhism, Islam, Wicca, et hoc genus omne - then it is certainly worth your time. If you find that it does not offer you anything, then you can leave it be. I don't believe in proselytizing and will not tell you I am right and others are wrong. But I will say my beliefs are right for me, and that is what matters. Look for yourself. And good luck! Hirvimaki |
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Title: Re: Religion and CH?? Post by 9erfan on Oct 3rd, 2003, 12:28pm This is a pretty sensitive subject since most people on this board have strong feelings on the subject one way or another. I don't want to get into an argument with anyone on the subject, I only know what I believe. I was raised as a Catholic but am no longer. I define myself as a born again Christian now. I believe that God is the only One who gets me through everyday. Everything that i have right now is a blessing from God. I can't explain why we have diseases like Clusters, I won't know that answer for a long time to come. I do know that when I started to become chronic I had a huge battle with God. I turned away from him for awhile. But then I realized I needed him more than ever. I KNOW that He exists, I see everytime He answers one of my prayers. Virginia |
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Title: Re: Religion and CH?? Post by ave on Oct 3rd, 2003, 12:29pm Yes, slippery. What moves me spiritually I could never explain to you. And I would not either. I believe in doing as I am done by within reason and, as much as I can, doing to others as I would like to be done by. There is one thing I do not believe in; organised religion. Gives scope to humanities worst instincts. But my take on life has not changed since I found clusters, if that is what you mean. |
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Title: Re: Religion and CH?? Post by fubar on Oct 3rd, 2003, 12:47pm I beleive in Barry Bonds. -Fu |
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Title: Re: Religion and CH?? Post by FrankF on Oct 3rd, 2003, 1:24pm I think of God often during an attack. "Please God make it stop "... "God you're a bastard for making me have these"... |
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Title: Re: Religion and CH?? Post by vig on Oct 3rd, 2003, 1:30pm I can tell these last 8 years 'awoke' something new inside me that I call a spiritual or emotional life, but there's no correlation between that and religion. Maybe that's what a personal religion is. I was born and raised Catholic, but any ties to them and respect for what's going on there is lost. |
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Title: Re: Religion and CH?? Post by RevDeFord on Oct 3rd, 2003, 1:56pm Turts, I want very much to reply in full to your question, but I am at work, and thus it is hard to put all my thoughts together. I will try to do so this weekend. I became a Christian well after my cluster headaches started, and they did not have any bearing on my decision to follow Christ. I will try and write more this weekend. |
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Title: Re: Religion and CH?? Post by kissmyglass on Oct 3rd, 2003, 1:56pm I'm as Non relioious as they come. To each his own as far as I'm concerned. Kev |
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Title: Re: Religion and CH?? Post by KingOfPain on Oct 3rd, 2003, 2:00pm Interesting. Of 8 replies (including mine) so far..... 50% Catholic (born, raised, etc...) I was born & raised Catholic also. Hmmmmmmm. Just found this interesting, that's all. KingOfPain Modified: At the time I was typing my reply, it was 8 replies at 50%. KOP |
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Title: Re: Religion and CH?? Post by Margi on Oct 3rd, 2003, 2:09pm So, KOP, are you saying that Catholicism causes clusters? ;) Also interesting to note is that the folks who did say they were born and raised Catholic, no longer practice. (All, except you, KOP - you didn't mention if you still do). (with apologies to all the practicing Catholics in the audience). Margi (who was raised Protestant but is now just good ol' grass roots non-denominational Christian) |
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Title: Re: Religion and CH?? Post by SFChris on Oct 3rd, 2003, 2:35pm Jeez (sorry for the pun), but I am so proud of this family. A religious post with about 12 replys and not one person trying to convert, bully or push their own beliefs on another! It is very refreshing that their hasn't been any flaming or dogma (from any point of view). All I can add is "Go Giants" (rock-on Fubar, my brother) Chris |
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Title: Re: Religion and CH?? Post by Donna on Oct 3rd, 2003, 2:49pm Also ex-Catholic (excommunicated by the church when divorced in 1972). Didn't care to persue. Born-again Christian in 1976. Church of God, home base in Anderson, Indiana. Believe pain and suffering brought on by devil trying to test and destroy ones' faith in Christ. Wouldn't have had the strength to survive without my faith in God........Death of child, suicide of nephew and murder of his son, etc. Clusters never caused a thought about Gods existance. Judging is not my privilege. |
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Title: Re: Religion and CH?? Post by RevDeFord on Oct 3rd, 2003, 3:49pm It's all that wine you catholics been a'sippin' at the Holy Communion......that'll getcha everytime ;D |
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Title: Re: Religion and CH?? Post by Charlie on Oct 3rd, 2003, 3:49pm Actually, CH didn't affect my feelings for religion. I was brought up in a family that didn't much care about this stuff. Swedes, you know...... Don't get me wrong, I'm not one who gets all hot and bothered by religious displays and the like. A waste of energy to do so. Do your thing and some of it is quite beautiful. What we call western civilization is pretty successful because we rarely pay official attention to our "mullahs." Works pretty well so far. Charlie |
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Title: Re: Religion and CH?? Post by tsayswhy on Oct 3rd, 2003, 4:13pm married dutch so christian reform here but the church was alittle to demanding" very strong religion" to many rules for me, beleive in god but doing our pray's at home for now ;) |
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Title: Re: Religion and CH?? Post by OneEyeBlind on Oct 3rd, 2003, 4:16pm Born and raised Catholic as was the rest of my family. Most of us have never given up on religion, just given up on some types of organized religion. With a true illness though, be it unstoppable clusters or cancer, I think that some of us probably go back to the roots of what we were taught. That there is a life after this which will be better. That's what makes us hold on. That's what makes us able to accept the things that life deals us. I for one am grateful to all the people who pray on this board. I have recieved tons of prayers when in need. If something or someone is calling your name .... answer. And see what they are trying to tell you |
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Title: Re: Religion and CH?? Post by Tiannia on Oct 3rd, 2003, 5:14pm Yes it is very refreshing to have a post (not regarding to this Message board but all that I have every seen) that does not have anyone being pushy of thier beliefs. What I believe is a BASIC TRUTH in this life. This life is not without a lot of pain. There are many times that everyone will question "Why?" and "How could you?" I believe that whatever gives you the strength, support and comfort to get from this day to the next is what is right for you. There is NO Religion that is right or wrong. For me, I am wiccan (pagan), even tho I was raised non denominational (sp?) Christian, hell I even taught Sunday shcool for 7 years. There is a lot of pain that I have delt with in this life from having rhumidoid (sp?)arthrits from the age of 18, degenerative disks in my lower back and now CH's. Carl D I totally understand where you are coming from. When I first entered college and started studying counseling and started working with the mentally ill and children, I started questioning my beliefs. I could not beive that a kind and loving GOD would put someone in the one chance that they have on this earth into a life that would be filled with pain. How could HE have a child born into a house where that child would be beaten every day until they died and only given that one chance to experience the wonders that Life has to offer? So in searching for my answers I learned about and began to see that I was Wiccan. That within the belief that this is not the only life that we will have, I can accept the pain that we all have to feel as it allows us to learn form the experience. That when we leave this life that we can take what we have learned and be able to assist people in our next life who are still learning. It still does not mean that I like it or that there will not be time that I will question again, but this is what has allowed me to deal with the pain that I have had and that I KNOW will come again. There have been many times that I have cried out in pain and asked why, but the answer for me is always so that you can help. |
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Title: Re: Religion and CH?? Post by eyes_afire on Oct 3rd, 2003, 5:27pm I'm gonna take the easy way out and say: I agree totally with Ave :) Ave, it was great meeting you at the convention. Pain is assured. And it sucks. Regardless of how many bad diseases are out there, pain still sucks. Woe unto me if I ever reach the day that pain is good. That would be a massive perversion of values. There is NOTHING GOOD about CH. --- Steve |
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Title: Re: Religion and CH?? Post by Mark C on Oct 3rd, 2003, 6:02pm There is obviously both good and evil in this world, the rest is up to mankinds interpretation, and has been since the beginning of time. The basic sprituial principals of all things remain constant, honesty is honesty, compassion, understanding, patience all apply no matter who, where or what you claim to be.....bottom line is we are all in the same boat! CH or not.....and we are not supposed to understand everything, then there would be no mystery of life.... Earthling, Mark |
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Title: Re: Religion and CH?? Post by Ree on Oct 3rd, 2003, 6:12pm Hi~~ I dont have clusters but support someone that does. I am extremely religious. I am still a practicing Catholic. Dave is a practicing Catholic also... I believe there are many many roads to God, Love, Mother Earth, Powers that Be, Alah, YaWe, Buda ,Jesus or whatever you call the God you love. I believe He is one and the same. I believe that with or without an organized religion, that being a good person and loving as best we can is MOST important in life. I do believe there are rewards for the gifts we share here on Earth... but also that God (my God the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit) is a very forgiving God... and that we are all entitled to a life in Heaven or the Afterlife someday... I do believe that. I have had a near death experience. I also believe in Heaven because I have seen miracles here on Earth in the faces of my children at birth. I have felt the magic of love here, and know that life is just too wonderful to end when it ends here on Earth. I truly believe that too. I also believe in evil and there is so much evil rampant in our society... and in all of the world. I believe that evil is out to destroy all of the churches of the world. The Catholic Church has been brought down in these past years and I believe that it will happen in other churches too. I believe that is why God (Jesus, fill in your name) has sent out Angels, that in recent years were so popular to spread good will to everyone in the world. This is what I believe... some think it sounds like the "Tooth Fairy Story" but it brings me comfort. There are times when my cage gets rattled. There are times when I question my faith. Then I make a visit to our Adoration Chapel at the local parish and I sit with the Eucharist...(the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ) and I feel the warmth in the room. I feel the love of the people also sitting there that believe in HIM too. A stranger walks in and smiles and I feel like we have a special secret. And how could I not believe in that great young man that lived and died so that we could love and be free. I think its a great thing to believe in. I see alot of God's work being done here everyday and even those of you that say you don't believe in a God... If you believe in Love... well then your in the same place as me... God is Love simple as that... love to you all Ree |
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Title: Re: Religion and CH?? Post by Roxy on Oct 3rd, 2003, 6:14pm on 10/03/03 at 12:29:19, ave wrote:
ave, I agree totally. You said it much more succinctly and nicer than I would have. I'm just always thankful that I don't have something worse than ch's.... :-/ |
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Title: Re: Religion and CH?? Post by Ree on Oct 3rd, 2003, 6:17pm I love this thread~~ and would love to hear more about other peoples beliefs... whatever they are or aren't we all have each other and thats what counts... love ree again... and Ave that is very well said I am just longer winded than you... LOL ps hi rox |
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Title: Re: Religion and CH?? Post by ckelly181 on Oct 3rd, 2003, 6:31pm Wow - too weird...I'm a former Catholic also. The correlation is uncanny! ((Incense???)) I'm a Christian, used to attend the Assembly of God church. Now I'm a non-church going Christian - for various reasons. My CH had no bearing on any religious/spiritual decisions I've made. Chris |
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Title: Re: Religion and CH?? Post by jonny on Oct 3rd, 2003, 6:38pm on 10/03/03 at 18:17:15, Ree wrote:
Hmmmm, are you sure about that, Ree ;D ....................................jonny |
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Title: Re: Religion and CH?? Post by Ree on Oct 3rd, 2003, 7:01pm I am positive.............. |
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Title: Re: Religion and CH?? Post by 5-string on Oct 3rd, 2003, 7:11pm I too was raised Catholic. My father was a lector, I went to C.C.D. We attended Mass every sunday. midnight mass christmass eve. Aside from weddings and funerals I don't attend anymore. As far as beliefs and clusters go......... I am a very spiritual person. I have never cursed God and felt comfortable afterward but I think that's the Catholic in me. I don't believe that ANY god would damn someone because they don't bow to his/her throne and fear his/her word. but that's me. Suffering from things like Cluster Headaches, and any other one of lifes major struggles I become more and more spiritual.They make me stronger and more understanding and compassionate toward this beautiful planet and all of its creatures. ...Mark.. |
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Title: Re: Religion and CH?? Post by Big_Dan on Oct 3rd, 2003, 7:50pm ... I'd hang around in here... but Tonto is advising me to get the fuck out of Dodge.... -Big Kemosabe |
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Title: Re: Religion and CH?? Post by Turts on Oct 3rd, 2003, 8:29pm Quote:
Above is an IMM reply I typed last night. I would like to post this now to all of you. I guess I need to change the last sentence Quote:
Because i now have all of you. |
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Title: Re: Religion and CH?? Post by Donna_D. on Oct 3rd, 2003, 11:58pm I am married to a Catholic (lapsed, but still Catholic). Does that count? ;) I am Baptist (Texas born and raised). Haven't been to church in years...Starting again this Sunday (or so I say...). (Slightly long winded personal experience to follow) In high school, a friend and I decided to explore other religions. Each week we attended a different religious ceremony. We ran the whole gamut, attending tent revivals, temples, cathedrals, etc. We even attended a Bhatmitzvah (ceremony for Jewish GIRL "coming of age"). We observed our Asian friends as they prayed to their gods (burned incense, left offererings of food, etc.) You get the picture. We experienced as much of the "religious world" as we could. Based on these experiences, my personal observations in a nutshell (cracked it may be) are as follows: Most Humans have an inherent desire to believe in a supreme being, god or entity. We need a way to explain the unexplainable (miracle of life, tragedy of death, pain and suffering, etc.). Call it the "Pass the Buck" theory if you will. Surely, we mere humans cannot be responsible for our own lives (she said in a facetious tone of voice). How many times have we said "the Devil made me do it", "God must have smiled on you that day" "the gods must be crazy", etc. We NEED someone to turn to/blame it on...someone else to be responsible for our lives..."Lord knows" we can't be. Next, most religious beliefs really boil down to GOOD vs. EVIL. If you are good, you are rewarded with good (Heaven,life after death, good karma). If you are bad then there will be negative consequences (Hell, plagues of locusts, negative energy, guilty conscience). Karma and conscience should be listed together in the thesaurus of religious terminology. Think about it... Most religions are simply somebody's version of : Love (or at least like) your fellow man/woman and don't lie, cheat, steal or kill anyone in the process. To quote Carl D: I do try to live by the golden rule; to treat others as I would have them treat me. I also subscribe to what I jokingly refer to as the "X-files religion"--there is something out there. No, I don't (necessarily ::)) believe in aliens but I can't fathom the idea that we are all here because millions of years ago a bunch of rocks collided creating the cosmic soup from which all life sprang. And, it would simply be vain to think we are alone in this vast universe. (Don't believe me? Check out the pictures relayed from the Hubble telescope). There had to be a guiding hand, a caretaker, someone or something to nurture and oversee the creation of the miraculous and wonderous vessle (human body) in which our spirits currently reside. I just happen to call him God. In God, I do have faith and I do believe. After all, religion could be considered a life-after-death insurance policy. Like auto insurance...The premiums are high but you sure are glad to have it when the "day" comes. Thanks for letting me express my opinions and I hope I have not offended anyone. It is exciting to participate in a conversation that does not include: No! The toy box is NOT just like your potty chair. Don't hide your brother's bottle/sister's sippy-cup. Stop fighting/hitting/wrestling with each other!! No, I don't know how many legs a cricket is supposed to have. Why do you ask and what is your brother EATING!?!?!? PFDAN to all Donna_D. . |
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Title: Re: Religion and CH?? Post by Hirvimaki on Oct 4th, 2003, 8:31am Let me explicate my previous statement, lest some should be misled. I stated that: I was raised Catholic, but no longer define myself by (what I consider to be) that limiting and confining standard. By that I did not mean to imply that I have rejected Catholicism - I just do not define myself with labels. I still attend a Catholic church and feel very much a part of the community of it. What I meant was that I do not view Catholicism as the end-all road for everyone. I do not define myself as a Catholic and nothing more. I feel that such labels are confing and limiting. My attendance in a Catholic church and observance of Catholic rituals (one of the reasons I am (still) drawn to Catholicism are the rich rituals in the ceremonnies) is a personal choice, a preference. I do not beleive that only Catholics are saved. I am as comfortable with Jewish, Buddhist or Wicca as I am with Catholics. There are many facets to the window to God and each person must find the one most comfortable for him/herself. My wife (of seven years now) is a Lutheran from Finland. What I find most interesting are not the differences but the similarities between our two religions. We were married both in the Lutheran church and Catholic church. (She got to wear the dress twice!) We celebrate each others' views and help each other to grow and gather a deeper understanding of God. What I object to is using a religious denomination as a clique, an exclusive members-only club. That I do find offensive and that is why I say "[I]...no longer define myself by (what I consider to be) that limiting and confining standard." It does not mean I reject Catholicism, but that I reject the notion that religion should somehow seperate me from the rest of humanity. I am a child of God, and view everyone else as such. I hope this made it clear as mud... :) I have very much enjoyed this thread! A big HUG to all of you. Hirvimaki |
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Title: Re: Religion and CH?? Post by Ree on Oct 4th, 2003, 12:48pm I am learning so much in reading this... thanks... We all sound like we are aboard the same planet here... Saying similar things... and we arent arguing... LOL that is so cool. (I think God has a hand in this great conversation) Love you all........ree |
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Title: Re: Religion and CH?? Post by goaway on Oct 4th, 2003, 3:59pm Hi Turts. Good thread. I am a New Testament christian. I attend services at the church of Christ. We are non-denominational. Suggestion: Pull out the Bible and read. It is the ONLY thing that has pulled me through the negatives of life. If you will look, you will find. And I agree with you, Ree. We can all still hang out together. LOL!!! :) |
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Title: god is too big Post by rumplestiltskin on Oct 5th, 2003, 1:37am Quote:
Not me. I was already dancing with the creator when the pain began at age 43. Quote:
Religion is tricky busness at best...just finding a parking place can cause one to sin. You do what suits ya there. As to the other: First...goddamn it ...ya gotta be KIND...then....I'm sure that if you search yer heart and just dream up some purpose for yourself ...then go out and give that yer best shot...in the end....I'm 100% sure that when ya see God...She/He's gonna say "Yep! That's exactly why you were here." Walk in the sunshine den |
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Title: Re: Religion and CH?? Post by cathy on Oct 5th, 2003, 4:40am http://www.uselessgraphics.com/ppwr.gif |
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Title: Re: Religion and CH?? Post by nancyc on Oct 5th, 2003, 10:57am I believe in God and believe He helps me thru the chs...I dont believe He gave them to me though...I used to belong to a Church but do not attend anymore...personal reasons....But I still have a strong faith ....I was brought up Baptist, went to Assembly of God in the past....Now, I believe you dont have to belong to a Church to have faith and love God....I know I would not be here today if He had not taken care of me..I didnt seem to do such a good job in the past taking care of myself....I respect other's beliefs and feel this is a great thread...like Ree, it is nice getting to know others beliefs....there sure is alot of Catholics here ...thought that was very interesting...I always loved the Catholic services I visited...smiles,nancyc |
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Title: Re: Religion and CH?? Post by Ree on Oct 5th, 2003, 11:13am The funny thing about this thread is though we all have different backgrounds it seems we all believe the same stuff... What I believe (again that word believe) is that organized religion as we know it will probably fall by the wayside and we will all become one and the same in this great place... I BELIEVE THIS about races too... but thats just little old me with my rose colored glasses..........love to you all Ree |
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Title: Re: Religion and CH?? Post by brain_cramps on Oct 5th, 2003, 11:27am on 10/03/03 at 12:47:34, fubar wrote:
LMAO Fu! ;D Me? Born and raised: Lutheran Recently: non-practicing Rastafari >:( Effects of Clusters on religion: none Effects of Religion on Clusters: none |
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Title: Re: Religion and CH?? Post by CathiP on Oct 5th, 2003, 12:51pm Open minded parents encouraged us to seek out religion....explore them all.....never found one I could fully immerse myself in...but that doesn't mean I am not a believer...in God....I am spiritual, I guess... It's about the Golden Rule.....living life, treating people the way I would like to be treated.... Believe in something....be accountable for your actions, and do unto others as you would have them do unto you..... OOH! And be open and ready to appreciate the wonders around you every day.....they are a gift! Thanks for a great thread, Turts.... Cathi |
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Title: Re: Religion and CH?? Post by kim on Oct 5th, 2003, 1:15pm CH did not bring any measure one way or another to my faith. I tend to get nervous when folks get "religion" because of outside factors.......... Faith is in you all -- it's there like a sleeping faithful dog--all you need do is give love and then.......you FEEL loved in return. The Simpleton :) |
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