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(Message started by: UnsolvedEquation on Oct 3^rd, 2003, 3:51am)

Title: Suicide
Post by UnsolvedEquation on Oct 3^rd, 2003, 3:51am

One of the names for CH is "Suicide headaches". They don't call it that for nothing.
Does anybody know what the suicide rate is for CH sufferers ? I believe it used to be much higher before Imitrex was available. Does anyone know of anybody that had CH that commited suicide (no real names please).

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by Dave_Emond on Oct 3^rd, 2003, 5:14am

I've wondered about this same question myself often. Haven't ever found anything statistic wise.
I think we'll never know for sure, especially because of how long it took to put a name to this disorder. There are many names used in the past, that some now believe were Cluster Headaches.
I would tend to think suicides from CH probably wouldn't show up as CH related, but reasoned as "mental illness". Chaulk it of to depression, or the likes. Doubt the medical field is ready to accept the concept that sufferers can get to the point of suicide based just on the want of being rid of the pain.
I've been close many times, especially when experimental prescriptions warp my will to fight.
I doubt we'll ever know, I would think that the rate would be higher for those who were never properly diagnosed.
At least if anything, I know that many have been saved by the support of our family here. On the old message boards when this site first started up, I remember many who were at the end of their rope, but the passion of these fellow sufferers and supporters could find words to keep hope going, and many of them are still around today because of this fantastic group.
(I do know a guy back when I lived in Denver who had CH and cut off a finger in an attempt to divert pain).
But, sadly, I doubt we'll ever get true stats to answer that question. I say sadly because information like this might put more researchers and doctors involved in finding causes and cures.
I can only guess, I have nothing to back up anything I said as far as how a CH'er that committed suicide were labled for reason of suicide.
Interested to see if someone does have any stats that might be somewhat close.
Dave

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by OneEyeBlind on Oct 3^rd, 2003, 5:16am

There have been a few suicide threads on this site since I started, but each and every one of those people are still around as far as I know. :) Makes me happy to see the support that can pour out of this board when someone truly needs it.

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by Turts on Oct 3^rd, 2003, 6:14am

I was intending to start a thread tonight about the irony of Ch.com.

We are all here due to suffering this horrific illness.

Ch has driven us to search for this website.

Ch has driven, unfornately some of us to suicide, others most definately to the though of suicide.

Ch.com has driven us BACK from the BRINK, and shown us life IS worth living.

So if it werent for CH we would not be here.
If it werent for CH we would not contemplate suicide. However if it werent for CH we would not have met such a great bunch of people, to prove theres life other than CH.

so the circle continues.

Turts - recent contemplater-constant survivor

;D :D ;) :)

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by RevDeFord on Oct 3^rd, 2003, 6:14am

when I was diagnosed, the doctor said they were called suicide headaches because 70% of those who have them commit suicide. Now, this was back in the early 90s, so we have learned alot since then, but just imagine how many people think they are going crazy, cuz they have this pain, they are improperly diagnosed, they think that noone cares, noone listens. As a teenager, I attempted suicide and clusters was one of the reasons. I did not have a name to go with the pain yet, and I thought I was going crazy. I listened to my dad, a paramedic, say "Headaches just don't happen like that".

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by BarbaraD on Oct 3^rd, 2003, 6:44am

90%?!!! That sounds a little high. Wow!

In Gladewater TX (pop 6000 - if no one left town yesterday) we've had two people commit suicide because of CH (one a doctor) that I know of.

I found this site right after Jerry (the doc). He was 51.

Bd

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by hopefull on Oct 3^rd, 2003, 8:50am

I first heard about clusters on a pbs or discovery show and they had one man I remember who after a month of non stop pain said he couldn't handle the pain any more and killed himself....

some people deal with pain better than others....but I don't think it was menatl illness for him just couldn't stand the pain any longer.....Felt that way before but to much of a coward to ever do anything about it...

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by Tiannia on Oct 3^rd, 2003, 10:39am

As a former counselor (stopped when I got preg.), there are two significant issues that will prbably ever keep us from knowing the true answer to this question.

1. That many men (while there are more and more women like myself who are now being diagnosed and treated for CH now it is still a majority of men who are diagnosed and as my doctor has proved, it is still considered a mans condition) who will not go to the doctor and will never get truely diagnosed properly for CH. And thus never treated for it. This is part of the age old mindset that a man is not supposed to HAVE to get help for what ever is ailing them, yadda yadda yadda BS. :/

2. Considering the issues that the above issue causes... Men in general do not attempt suicide. Men normally succeed. Men will normall find a more direct way to do this where wemon will not. To explain a little better. A man is more likly to use a gun where a women is more likely to take pills to OD. Thus women are usually unable to complete what they attempt.

After working on a rape and suicide hot line for many years, I learned that if I had a man on the line who was at the point of committng suicide that I was the last person this guy was going to talk to if I could not find something for him to hold on to. I can see that the suicide rate could easily have ben 70% in the 90's if there was little to no treatment or medication to assist in dealing with these. I hope that as more and more people get educated, that there is a chance that people will be diagnosed correctly early in the game and treated properly.

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by vig on Oct 3^rd, 2003, 11:50am

you are cool!

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by thomas on Oct 3^rd, 2003, 11:54am

I am a gun owner. I keep all of my firearms at my father's house because sometimes the temptation is just too inviting.

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by Carl_D on Oct 3^rd, 2003, 12:23pm

There was a girl who used to post on the board a few years ago who committed suicide. My book is dedicated to her. Before I found this board, I had read that 20% of cluster headache sufferers eventually are driven to that point. In 1994 when I lived in Michigan, I got drunk and jumped off a bridge. The next day I was in psyche ward for the attempt.
Back in January of this year, after suffering a long severe depression where I stayed heavily medicated, i went into a CH and said "Fuck this! I don't want to do this anymore!" Then I grabbed my 2 litre of mountain dew, opened all of my pill bottles, and washed them all down. I blacked out, and expected to be no more and cease to exist. I lived alone, didn't have a phone, both doors were locked, and no one should have found me for a week and a half, and that would have been the landlord looking for the rent.
I awoke in the hospital feeling like I had been hit by a semi, and couldn't swallow and could hardly breathe. I was in shock that I was there. They wouldn't tell me who called an ambulance or anything. All I know is I was in a coma for 4 days, and somehow made it out alive. Some say it was 'divine intervention' or something. I have no clue. All I know is I shouldn't be sitting here right now typing this, but I am.
I moved out of that apartment into a new place and started over. I delved into my music and my family and friends, began rebuilding my life and gained the strength to fight this fucker once again. I sometimes laugh and say "hell, I died in January, the rest of this life is a bonus."
I have often said that if I had a gun, I'd blow my head off, not to kill myself, but just to make the pain STOP!
All I have to do now is look at my niece and nephew and I think, How would it affect them if I had succeeded? I adore them, and my niece has deemed me her favorite uncle. I look back on it now and think of how selfish my actions were.
I have more reason to live now than ever, and know I have some sort of purpose in this life. I must have. Why else am I still alive?
If anyone ever reaches that point, TALK TO SOMEONE! Get some help! If not from family, then find a crisis center near you. Don't let this beast overtake your life to the point of ending it.

Peace,
Carl D

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by Marcos618 on Oct 3^rd, 2003, 12:31pm

I use to go to a headache clinic for my CH's but found that a regular doctor can prescribe all the same drugs and the office visits were a LOT cheaper. At the clinic I was told a guy came in, he had CH's and pulled out a gun and said to the doctor "you stop these headaches or I will". He was not saying it as a threat to the doctor but if the doctor could not stop the pain the guy was going to shoot himself to stop the pain.

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by KingOfPain on Oct 3^rd, 2003, 1:05pm

on 10/03/03 at 11:54:38, thomas wrote:

I am a gun owner. I keep all of my firearms at my father's house because sometimes the temptation is just too inviting.

To each their own (respectfully)........

I am a gun owner.
I keep all my firearms loaded at MY house.

The beast will NEVER take me out &
a punk,thief,(whatever) breaking into
my house DAMN SURE isn't going to do
the job either.

Make My Day law here.

I will take advantage of it
(the law) if necessary.

Just an opinon.......
& a way of life, unfortunatly.

**NO, I am not trying to start the
gun debate.
Just an opinion, as stated.**

KingOfPain

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by FrankF on Oct 3^rd, 2003, 1:19pm

Really sad story here http://brandonvedas.com/ written by the brother of a f*cked up kid who intentionally killed himself while on a video IRC chatroom. Everybody got to WATCH and respond to his posts until he couldn't type anymore. Many thought it was cool and egged him on. :'(

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by vig on Oct 3^rd, 2003, 1:45pm

glad you're here with us Carl,
phew.

it's another count your blessings day.

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by BarbaraD on Oct 3^rd, 2003, 2:00pm

We ALL have thought about it and some of us have attempted it, but most of us who've found this MB are still around discussing it. That should say something for our SUPPORT group. It's working!!!

Carl - I remember back with you and the worry we all had about you. You're one of the SUCCESS STORIES we can BRAG about. YOU did it, but you had a lot of people pulling for you and whether you have religion or not, you had a lot of prayers going out for you. You had people who CARED.

I guess what I'm getting at is that this board is NOT just a lot of "Oh we're glad you're here and Welcome to Clusterville" hype. some of us who've been around for a long time ACTUALLY give out our phone numbers and "accept" collect calls in the middle of the night when someone NEEDS help. And if we pick up on "signs" of trouble WE call or e-mail. Everything doesn't happen on the MB - a lot goes on BEHIND the scenes that never gets told here.

So, for you "newbies" here, if you're looking for support, you've come to the right place. And for Carl - I probably never told you - but I'm glad you're still around....

Hugs BD

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by stuey on Oct 3^rd, 2003, 2:36pm

God knows some of us have contemplated suicide, I know for certain i have and not just for CHs. Life can be difficult and some people handle theirs better than others. What Tiannia said was something. I never knew that most men who tried succeeded. I've never actually tried, just thought about it hard but never really did, just couldn't handle mine at the time. I was always told when it got so bad you wanted to die to go to sleep and wake up and it would be another day and another chance. My favorite singer took her life and I've sorta been angry since. Her name was Phyllis Hyman and to see her perform live was something incredible. But she was in pain and I cried like a baby when she did it. I am glad I have hung on and not done anything stupid that would have brought others pain. This girl at work said she had no sympathy for people like Curt Corbain(sp.?) cause there were too many people in hospitals trying to live. I am grateful for Imitrex though cause these things aint no joke and I would hate to imagine not being able to get my hands on some. This really went on and on and I am sorry for this tangent. Stuey

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by Charlie on Oct 3^rd, 2003, 3:18pm

Clusters and suicide have been discussed in many posts. From what I recall, we didn't nail down much other than at the time, the incidence of greater suicide wasn't anywhere near what a lot of us thought. I do remember that so far we hadn’t found that much. Always sad but nothing like we suspected.

Didn't we determine that we could pin down one or perhaps two suicides that we think may have had a cluster connection?

Charlie

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by vig on Oct 3^rd, 2003, 3:22pm

being here took away the despair/alone part for me.

I never faced the question again.

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by OneEyeBlind on Oct 3^rd, 2003, 3:56pm

Carl_D, thanks for sharing your story. I know it's tough to be honest and share the real me. It's stories like these that we read and realize that suicide is not the answer.

Tiannia, thanks for the coucelor's perspective. I appreciate you sharing your expertice.

And Barb_D ... what can I say. I always fall back on the warm fuzzy feeling I got when I first showed up here, knowing I wasn't alone. I have also used this as a prayer network when in need. Neither have ever failed me when desperate.

And that's why our suicide rate is so low here. Cause someone always has your back. And that's the facts. Welcome home everyone !!!!!!

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by Big_Dan on Oct 3^rd, 2003, 6:01pm

on 10/03/03 at 11:54:38, thomas wrote:

I am a gun owner. I keep all of my firearms at my father's house because sometimes the temptation is just too inviting.

So am I... a shotgun, and just bought a .40 pistol today...

... during a Hellish attack a couple years ago, I thought about it... and within 30 seconds knew it wasn't worth it...

-Big Dan

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by UnsolvedEquation on Oct 4^th, 2003, 12:44am

I keep my assault rifle loaded :o It's for 'self-protection' ;D

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by sandie99 on Oct 4^th, 2003, 6:00am

To be honest, I was reliefed to find out that ch is actually called suicide headache. When I first started having attacks, the first 6 months drove me to suicidital thoughts. The pain was so horrible and first I didn't know what I had! :(
Now, one year on, I can take it easier, although ch does remind me of itself too frequently. I'm still looking forward to have a longer pain-free period than 21 days! I don't have a medication that would work, but these days I'm thinking positively and believe that one day I can live years without it. :)

Best wishes,
Sanna ;)

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by brain_cramps on Oct 4^th, 2003, 8:24am

on 10/03/03 at 12:23:02, Carl_D wrote:

All I have to do now is look at my niece and nephew and I think, How would it affect them if I had succeeded?

ditto. My neice and nephews have "stopped" me without even knowing about it. I now want to do anything possible to make their life more enjoyable. I feel that I owe it to them.

grant 8)

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by Donna on Oct 4^th, 2003, 9:33am

I've pondered whether to post this or not now for two days and finally decided to do it.

One of the reasons that this thread probably does not have more participation in this serious topic is that many of us feel the loss of people we have known on this site. Yes, it has happened, more than once or twice.

This story is not ch related but just goes to show what it can do to a wonderful family:

I lost a nephew to suicide last October. He decided to take his 14 year old son with him. The family will never recover from this horrific event. My sister and brother- in- law lost a son and grandson. He had brothers and a sister (age 19 now) who go to Victims of Crimes, memorial services and counceling. I hear my neice wailing. I see the tattoo with their initials on her body. I see my bro-in-law failing from emphysema at a much faster rate than should be. Doc says he now has just a couple of years at best. He sits most of the day blaming himself....thinks he should have seen the signs. There were no signs. My sister would not survive if she did not have the strong faith in God that she does. This is the second son she has lost...the other one was 27 and the victim of a violent virus which claimed his life within 72 hours. She is in church grieving more than at home. The young man and his son seemed to have a great relationship and had a lot of fun together. The mom shared custody in the summer.

We have a great support system here, both on line and off. We check up on our friends when we don't hear from them. We all share the same problems and can relate to each other. And with the information now on this site, cluster headaches are no longer the lonely, no-hope-for-relief malady that they were just 5 years ago......before we met, shared experiences and love.

If you feel in need of help of any kind, just let it be known and you can be sure of hearing from someone.

The OUCH site has also addressed this issue. You can find it at

http://www.clusterheadaches.org/crisis_intervention.htm

Everybody here, whether it be the sufferer or the supporter, knows the pain of CH. When we throw out that lifeline to a sinking brother or sister, the hook on the end is LOVE. Love is a strong motivator. It snares and hangs on. It doesn't let go. No one is alone in Clusterville.

Our Charlie and I both outgrew them. I've been cluster free for 17 years now, after suffering for 28 years . I'm so glad I'm still here.......here to see the end of clusterheadaches... just down the road a little way.

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by BarbaraD on Oct 4^th, 2003, 10:17am

Good post Donna,

My family also went through the loss of my only neice to suicide (she was 15). We will NEVER get over it or know the reason why. It does something to a family that is indescribable. My brother died still not able to come to terms with the loss of his only daughter.

So even in our darkest moments with CH, we still need to think about what it does to the families.

Hugs BD