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(Message started by: cathy on Sep 9^th, 2003, 3:14pm)

Title: Clusterheadaches & Anxiety
Post by cathy on Sep 9^th, 2003, 3:14pm

For Patients
Health Prose: A One-Minute Update for Your Health

Cluster Headaches: Do They Cause Anxiety Disorder?
University of Iowa Health Science Relations
Peer Review Status: Internally Peer Reviewed
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The intense pain of cluster headaches may not be the only worry for those patients suffering from them.
Patients with cluster headaches--severe headaches occurring in clusters of several months and then receding--have a higher rate of anxiety disorders during the time between clusters of headaches and show memory deficits during headache clusters, according to a recent University of Iowa Health Care study.

Ricardo Jorge, M.D., associate research scientist in the UI Department of Psychiatry and lead author of the study, said the impetus for the study was a previously identified link between migraines and depression and anxiety. Cluster headaches, similar to migraines in many ways, were thought to have a similar link, increasing the likelihood of patients getting mood and anxiety disorders.

"If cluster headaches occur frequently with anxiety, the headaches may cause the anxiety or the other way around," Jorge said. "It is important to know the relationship between them so that doctors may treat patients better."

Cluster headaches' intense pain lasts 15 minutes to an hour. This pain usually occurs over periods that last a few months. After this time with multiple and severe attacks, the headaches disappear for a long length of time and then begin again without warning.

The causes of cluster headaches are unknown, but some evidence suggests changes in blood flow in the brain and dysfunction in certain brain areas. The incidence of cluster headaches is low, and cluster headaches affect more men than women, at a ratio of as many as seven to one. These figures may be somewhat misleading; doctors are increasingly diagnosing cluster headaches in women, Jorge noted.

The association of cluster headaches and anxiety disorders may also be related to brain dysfunction, especially certain areas known to be involved in the development of mood and anxiety disorders, according to the researchers.

There is no universal treatment for cluster headaches, Jorge said, although many treatments may be divided into managing the headache attack or decreasing the number of attacks during a cluster. Oxygen is often used to alleviate the pain as it happens, while other medications, including lithium, are used to reduce the length of an episode.

While there may be a link between cluster headaches and anxiety disorders, more work should be done before attempting to decide how best to treat patients with both or who are likely to contract both, Jorge noted.

"We need a bigger sample and then we will try to replicate our findings. Then maybe we can see if any specific type of treatment or approach is needed for those patients with cluster headaches and anxiety disorders. We also need to further research the significance of the memory disturbance involved with these headaches," Jorge said.

Cathy

Title: Re: Clusterheadaches & Anxiety
Post by cathy on Sep 9^th, 2003, 3:15pm

Found this if anyones interested at

http://www.vh.org/adult/patient/psychiatry/prose/clusterheadaches.html

Title: Re: Clusterheadaches & Anxiety
Post by CathiP on Sep 9^th, 2003, 7:10pm

Good stuff, Miss Fluffyknickers...thank you for providing it.
Comments?

Title: Re: Clusterheadaches & Anxiety
Post by cootie on Sep 9^th, 2003, 7:55pm

Thanks Cathy.....appreciate the info !!! Pam that learns sumthin new every day

Title: Re: Clusterheadaches & Anxiety
Post by Lori on Sep 9^th, 2003, 7:58pm

I'd like to see how many of us here with clusters actually have had any other type of mental illness episodes, anytime, not just during a cycle. I bet there is alot of us. I personally have suffered from depression, sometimes severe, severe mood swings, anxiety, etc. Long history of it. I always suffer anxiety & depression during my episodes too. But I have suffered these things when not in cycle, big time.
Interesting..

Title: Re: Clusterheadaches & Anxiety
Post by BobG on Sep 9^th, 2003, 8:36pm

Thanks cathy.
If you don't mind I would like to make a comment or three to Dr. Jorge.

Dear Dr. Jorge,
Clusterheadaches and anxiety? What are you talking about? Ain’t no such thing.

That delicately sensitive sensation behind the eye, that tenderness in the temple, the ache in the upper jaw that signals the shadow is starting. Knowing that in 5 minutes the devil will be in full scale attack mode. Make a person anxious? Naw. Never happens.

“The exquisite, excruciating pain of a Cluster attack” (thanks Drummer) causes anxiety? Nope. Never happens.

The nightly “Habitual ritual” (thanks Kim) of pacing, ice packs, injections, screaming and pounding the walls to get the “Charlie Horse in the head” (thanks Oringkid) to cease and desist cause anxiety? Nope. Never heard of it.

Logging on to CH.com and reading the posts of pain, threats of leaving this world, tears shed for others, bad doctors, insurance company screw-ups. Make a person anxious? Nope, I don’t think so.

Dr. Jorge, you say “"We need a bigger sample and then we will try to replicate our findings.” I say, There’s 4000 of us at this website. For hell’sake how many do you need?

Maybe, Dr. Jorge, you can find a little free time to read this website, our “Oasis” (thanks Margi), away from those that have all the answers in their books but fail to really provide any help. Then write your book about the real world. But then, who’d read a book about the real world. Kinda take the $ out of the book business, right? And that would be depressing, right?

BobG

Title: Re: Clusterheadaches & Anxiety
Post by Cerebus on Sep 9^th, 2003, 11:00pm

Well I'll be a monkey's uncle.....
The guys 'n' gals at the good ol' U of I finally did a study on CH. Knew it had to be coming they were ranked #3 in the nation as a teaching hospital some years back.......ummm how many is a mystery and where are my keys? Can a brotha get a Xanax?

Ramon

Title: Re: Clusterheadaches & Anxiety
Post by head_darts on Sep 9^th, 2003, 11:08pm

maybe there's a point to this. i've often wondered if this condition could be a result of the way we naturally defer stress. anxiety is one way. i've found that sometimes i avoid confrontation and get angry about it later. it's not unheard of for people to blow a fuse, but what if you don't do that? do you get ch? i don't see how that is not an option. this year i have often resorted to alcohol to ease my stress. cause and effect.

so what do you others think? could ch be a result of supressed stress?

by the way, they DO use anti depressants to treat these in many cases.

Title: Re: Clusterheadaches & Anxiety
Post by Dave_Emond on Sep 9^th, 2003, 11:13pm

Go get 'em Bob!
Although I've had Anxiety Disorder for almost 20 years I don't see any connection between CH and actual Anxiety Disorder.
Does CH cause us anxiety? To paraphrase Bob ...
DUH!
Of course it does in many forms: Stress, depression, fear, frustration, etc.
But, does CH cause Anxiety Disorder ... No.
Does Anxiety Disorder cause CH ... No.
I have 3 brothers who also have Anxiety Disorder, one to extremes I can't imagine. Do they have CH? No.
I studied into this possiblity years ago and could easily have written a better article than this.
I've been on Xanax for about 15 years, this controls the Anxiety Disorder. Because this is an addictive medication, I've tried several other non addictive meds to control it (Paxil CR, Zoloft, Welbutrin, etc.) But, unfortunately only Xanax works.
I've now caused myself two problems though. I've also been using Xanax to control myself during severe CH attacks. Since no medications for CH have worked (a list too long to print here), I've had to go without medications for some time now. This means I've had to try to cope chronic CH with no pain relief. The Xanax doesn't touch the pain, but it helps just a little to calm me down and keep me from injuring myself on purpose or doing other stupid things I used to do in my attempts to fight the beast (or want to give up the fight).
I do not in any way suggest using Xanax for any reason, even Anxiety Disorder. Wish I never heard of it.
Back to the article, I wonder how much money in grants and other means one like Dr. Jorge gets to spend on this "research"?
I'd bet if his funds were cut off, he might get a little anxious. Who knows, if we "studied a big enough group" of people like him we might know more.
JMHO,
Dave
(Now, where's my research funds?)

Title: Re: Clusterheadaches & Anxiety
Post by paul_b on Sep 9^th, 2003, 11:41pm

Well stated Dave.

Title: Re: Clusterheadaches & Anxiety
Post by BillyJ. on Sep 10^th, 2003, 12:50am

MY OPINION
CH can cause anxiety but not necessarily an
anxiety disorder.
Take a look at all the things related to the hypo-
thalamus:blood presure,heart rate,resperation rate,
sleeping patterns,metabolism,seitonin levels,mood
disorders,migraines,CH,,
They all are controlled by OR at least related to
the hypothalamus,so it is not surpising to me that more
than one symptom be present.However that does not
meen that one causes the other or that a person who
expieriances one will have all of these 'abnormalitties'.
We know that all of these things have common
links but I dont think that it can be stated as fact what
is cause and what is co-occurance.We know that the
hypo. is abnormal during CH but why?Maybe that is the
result of some thing else going wrong??
Bob,Dave, well said looks like a BS study to me
too,but,at least clusters are being looked at,it's a start.
Just my opinion,
PF2ALL,
Billy

Title: Re: Clusterheadaches & Anxiety
Post by Cerberus on Sep 10^th, 2003, 12:00pm

I would have to disagree about CH not causing anxiety disorders.
I happen to have an anxiety disorder and my first breakdown came the year, within a month or two before my first CH attack came. Now was it actually caused by CH? probably not, however, I have been on anti-depressants and anti-anxiety meds the whole time since my CH was diagnosed. the ugly truth is that humans are fragile mentally (in general) and anxiety IS a direct result of too much stress in many cases.......would anyone here disagree that stress is a major side effect of CH? do we not get paranoid of our next or future cycles if episodic? and if chronic you KNOW you are freaked out on a daily basis. C'mon folks.

Ramon

Title: Re: Clusterheadaches & Anxiety
Post by hopefull on Sep 10^th, 2003, 1:02pm

Anxiety causes your blood pressure to go up....right?! blood vessel constrict swell....bring on CH
Just a thought so don't flame me..
I have panic attacks for years use breathing exercise to control also use with Ch...helps at high point of pain...

Title: Re: Clusterheadaches & Anxiety
Post by Ueli on Sep 10^th, 2003, 1:50pm

Yeah, what others said.

But remember, at an university there is one cardinal rule:

Publish or perish!

Title: Re: Clusterheadaches & Anxiety
Post by FrankF on Sep 10^th, 2003, 2:03pm

on 09/10/03 at 00:50:55, BillyJ. wrote:

MY OPINION
CH can cause anxiety but not necessarily an
anxiety disorder....

Agreed. For me anxiety is the extreme dread that I feel knowing another attack will occur today, tommorrow, the next day, and the next, and so on. Not really an anxiety disorder.

Title: Re: Clusterheadaches & Anxiety
Post by cootie on Sep 10^th, 2003, 2:09pm

anxiety to me means.......tryin ta handle things that are "out of my control to change"....things I have to do I dread also rates for anxiety fer me. Pam that's had one too many anxiety attacks.......one zillion too many

Title: Re: Clusterheadaches & Anxiety
Post by surfshi on Sep 10^th, 2003, 2:37pm

Hmmm..Dr.J at the uof I.. Well Hmmmm. I wonder if Dr.M in their neurology dept. has consulted with this guy..?Hmmm.Been camping lately!Doc? Hay fellow boardsurfers do you think that if a person was going through a cycle and could not get ahold of their (neuroligist) for say , lets be consevative now, 10 days, that this would cause anxiety? Well according to this the
10
days
would. In turn
create more clusters. Thanks Doc
I got to go now
having
an anxiety attack.
but pain free for almost a month now. BEEN THEIR U of I ....SURF

Title: Re: Clusterheadaches & Anxiety
Post by Lori on Sep 10^th, 2003, 2:46pm

I like what Billy J said :
<snip>Take a look at all the things related to the hypo-
thalamus:blood presure,heart rate,resperation rate,
sleeping patterns,metabolism,seitonin levels,mood
disorders,migraines,CH,,
They all are controlled by OR at least related to
the hypothalamus,so it is not surpising to me that more
than one symptom be present.However that does not
meen that one causes the other or that a person who
expieriances one will have all of these 'abnormalitties'.
<Snip>

MAYBE this is just something else to support the hypothalamus theory? If nothing else, the fact that a study or research is being done on CH is a good thing I think.

Title: Re: Clusterheadaches & Anxiety
Post by surfshi on Sep 11^th, 2003, 12:08am

Hmmm. I agree with Lori. Research :o

Title: Re: Clusterheadaches & Anxiety
Post by surfshi on Sep 11^th, 2003, 12:09am

Hmmm. I agree with Lori. Research :o

Title: Re: Clusterheadaches & Anxiety
Post by Dave_Emond on Sep 11^th, 2003, 1:17am

Although I can see why many might think there's something to this. I've got to stick to my experience in this area, past studies and just the plain lack of even a hint of comprehensive research by this Doctor.
CH does cause "feelings" of anxiety. This Dr. could have pulled any disease, disorder or even high school final exams out of his hat and applied this theory!
I'm not down playing the affects of anxiety and how it in turn effects ones life, anxiety just plain sucks.
However, Anxiety Disorder stems from a chemical imbalance in the brain. There are several forms of Anxiety Disorders. If left unchecked, and not treated, it can create higher level disorders such as Bipolar Disorder.
It wasn't long ago that Anxiety Disorders were not taken seriously at all. Those who had AD back in the 70's will well back this up. Once they finally got their heads out of their A$$'s and started to realize this was a real disorder and more people suffered from it than previous known, they finally started to find treatments.
But alas! The pharmecutical world saw potential in this. The doctors started passing off all kind of patients as just "stressed with anxiety" (How many CHer's heard this? Especially women.)
Then it almost became a fad, people could now blame almost anything on anxiety, or have anxiety to excuse away almost anything.
We can now sit and watch cute little bubble's who are sooo sad on TV commercials, but just buy some Paxil and you'll soon be the happy bouncing little bubble. Bunch of crap!
People who have Anxiety Disorder rarely know it for quite a while. They are afraid to tell people what they are feeling, because they can't explain it themselves. It can make one feel like they are losing their mind. (And are usually sure they are during a Panic Attack.)
There are no outward physical symptons that can be seen by others. We just look ridiculous so we hide in embarrassment.
I can explain CH to others a hundred times easier than I can try to explain Anxiety Disorder, that's of course a no brainer, I can't explain it to myself after at least 15 years of dealing with it.
Some who don't have the disorder can have Panic Attacks, and other forms of the disorder. So can relate somewhat to these feelings. Like CH, anxiety for those who truly have the Disorder, know there is no proven cure. But, unlike CH, the Disorder can be controlled with medications and in some cases alternative methods.
Exposure of reference to CH in anyway is not a good thing! Especially when it is tied into something that is so off the wall. The research is so wishy washy, I can't stand the idea of CH even being brought up. What serious doctor or researcher is going to find a bit of creedence in this study? Moreover, I'd be worried that CH sufferers would lose more ground than we are making by foolishness printed by those who as Ueli so well put it;
"Publish or Perish!"
Sorry if I sound upset, I guess I am somewhat though to be honest. Not at those who think there may be possiblities, we'll look anywhere and should. You could research this on your own and come up with more than this in less than a day. Problem is, you won't get any money for it ;)
I'm glad Cathy showed us this article. I may try to find this Dr. Jorge and contact him. Can't find enough of a "sample group" ... BS! Hmmm ... I wonder what happened when he just typed in Cluster Headaches into his Internet Browser? Must have missed CH.com or OUCH right at the top of about every search engine I've ever seen.
My opinion:
Unqualified researchers have been know to cause anxiety in CH sufferers.
Okay, off my soapbox now, just needed to let some things out, thanks,
Dave

Title: Re: Clusterheadaches & Anxiety
Post by TxBasslady on Sep 11^th, 2003, 2:05am

I'm just a Clusterhead...................

But my medical opinion is that Ricardo Jorge may just need to seek the services of a Board Certified Psychiatrist.......for personal treatment ???

Jean in Texas who would like to go with Dave to Iowa to find Jorgie Poo.............lmao

Title: Re: Clusterheadaches & Anxiety
Post by surfshi on Sep 11^th, 2003, 2:09am

i'll refer him to mine...Surf

Title: Re: Clusterheadaches & Anxiety
Post by surfshi on Sep 22^nd, 2003, 12:55am

BUMP....SURF

Title: Re: Clusterheadaches & Anxiety
Post by surfshi on Sep 22^nd, 2003, 8:32am

OK I found this University Study interesting so here it goes again...bump...any additional input on the anxiety thing or the U of I research method. anyone else here get it..Hmm.bump again. Surf

Title: Re: Clusterheadaches & Anxiety
Post by surfshi on Sep 22^nd, 2003, 9:16pm

Bumps away

Title: Re: Clusterheadaches & Anxiety
Post by badfly on Sep 23^rd, 2003, 5:49am

Anxiety !? Sounds like a load a crap some twit scratched on some paper 2 days b4 his deadline. Saying theres a connection between anxiety and CH is about as useful as saying theres a conection between survival instincts and fear. Until some REAL RESEARCH is done the subject is pretty much covered by common sence.

Title: Re: Clusterheadaches & Anxiety
Post by catlind on Sep 23^rd, 2003, 8:00am

I am not interested in saying right or wrong or anything else. I just want to give a different slant to Jorgies research.

We all suffer from CH. We all KNOW the anxiety it invokes. We know the pain and we know the anxiety.

Jorgie does not suffer from CH (assumption and yes I know the rule). Therefore, to him the connection of CH and anxiety might well be interesting. He does not KNOW the pain, and therefore cannot fathom that level of anxiety just because of a 'headache'.

Just a thought to give a new perspective.

I still think this should be called a head pain syndrome and completely lose the ache part of the head. Ache is so inadequate.

Cat

Title: Re: Clusterheadaches & Anxiety
Post by surfshi on Sep 25^th, 2003, 6:47pm

Well I had to do it, yup stopped by Jorgies office today but he was not in. I truely would like to speak with this person to see when his deadline was and how many hours prior to the deadline he wrote this. The guy is not in. I plan on eventually contacting him. Is their anything that anyone would like for me to bring up if I get the chance? heck he may just meet with me in person,whopee. Well their it is I opened the box, if so just IM me or post it here. I don't have an axe to grind with him I would just like to know the basis of his research. Also to let him know that their is 4000+ here. How many of you were part of this guys research. My guess is 2...Surf

Title: Re: Clusterheadaches & Anxiety
Post by Dave_Emond on Sep 25^th, 2003, 10:56pm

As animate as I am that this article is worthless, I would suggest that you approach the matter with diplomacy.
I would give him credit for at least looking into it, but at the same time ask where he obtained his information to support his theory.
How many CH sufferers has he contacted? How many Anxiety Disorder sufferers has he contacted. How many case studies were done? Did the people understand the difference between Anxiety Disorder and normal anxiety feelings?
We don't want to attack and make him defensive, it is possible that the intentions were good. It would be interesting to know what prompted him to link CH in particular to Anxiety Disorder.
Perhaps we could even offer to help him gain more data by questionaire. With the thousands of visitors to this site (and OUCH) I can't imagine how we could be missed? I couldn't leave without an answer to that.
He should have a case study report to provide.
He should have credentials in neurology.
He should have credentials in Brain chemistry.
All in all, any study into CH is a good thing. And we should encourage it wherever we can. However, plublishing unfounded theories on assumptions does more harm than good.
Any sufferer of CH knows beyond doubt that this disorder is of unknown cause. Pain that no matter how hard we try to explain, just can't do it justice. I'd hate to see CH grouped into generalized categories for convienence sake.
If he is really interested, then I would expect him to contact us, if he does not, then I can only assume there was no true interest in the first place.
Wish I could sit in on your conversation with him Surf, tell him I would volunteer to fill out any questionaire he has been using to conduct this study.
Dave
On another note: I too hate the term Headache, again putting Clusters into a category to broad that downplays the differences between Migraine, Tension & Sinus headaches. I feel for any who suffer these headaches and wish them relief, but I do not suffer from "headaches." I suffer from Clusters, or if I had my choice at a name it might be something like "Cluster Neuralgia" Course this would screw up our logo ;)

Title: Re: Clusterheadaches & Anxiety
Post by surfshi on Sep 26^th, 2003, 9:05am

Dave, those were my Qs to the pin. And yes, how did he miss us? Diplomacy, thats the only way to go, big guns or little slingshots gets one no place except in war and thats the last thing the ORG. needs to do. I truely hope if he is interested in CH then his research will continue, throughout his career, and with additional information wich can be obtained through OUCH and affiliates...Surf

Title: Re: Clusterheadaches & Anxiety
Post by Surf on Oct 7^th, 2003, 8:51pm

OK, I MAY CATCH SOME FLACK FOR THIS BUT HERE IT GOES.bump. YA I KNOW I GOT HOMEWORK TO DO ON THIS...SURF

Title: Re: Clusterheadaches & Anxiety
Post by Ree on Oct 7^th, 2003, 9:21pm

The only anxiety that my husband feels is the ANXIETY of EXPECTING HIS NEXT HIT... THAT IS ABOUT IT...rest of the time he might have a little ADD sorry honey but thats it..............no depression on Dave's part maybe a little skitzophrenia...(how does one spell that word????)oooooooooo sorry airing out the family laundry... (YOU guys KNOW I'm kidding right???? Dave is perfect)((a little deaf but perfect... now that I think about it....

never mind (in my best Gilda Radner voice GRHS)ree

Title: Re: Clusterheadaches & Anxiety
Post by ave on Oct 8^th, 2003, 4:24am

I have been anxious about getting hit.

That was nothing to the anxiety disorder I suffered some 2 yrs ago. The cause had nohing to do with CH.
I took care to get out of the situtation that caused it. The symptoms stopped.

Only sometimes, when I approach the building associated with that situation, I may still get a few symptoms. So I change my routes.

Apart from that, people vary, and may very well have a different perception of their "CH-situation they cannot get out of".

I would not trash this article out of hand, untill I knew much more baout the research. So Surfshi, GO!

Title: Re: Clusterheadaches & Anxiety
Post by Dave_Emond on Oct 8^th, 2003, 9:29am

Ave,
Now that's an interesting point!
Having had AD for over 15 years, I understand what you're talking about. It's going to be hard for me to admit (more like embarrassing) things that will send me into Panic Attacks and what I call "anticipation anxiety attacks."
When I first started having Panic Attacks, I had no idea what was going on. First thoughts were Heat Stroke or someone at work had spiked my lunch with some type of drug. I was a basket case, was sure I'd either die or go crazy. I was in heavy traffic at the time, with nowhere to get off the road quick enough. These attacks continued randomly over the next few weeks, each time when I was driving in heavy traffic. I still knew nothing about AD, even though my youngest brother suffered from Augoraphopia, which at the time made no sense to me at all. Over time, I started to connect that driving in heavy traffic, brought on Panic Attacks, which lead to fear of getting caught out in traffic with nowhere to go should an attack occur. So an association fear naturally developed, I began to fear driving anywhere I couldn't get off the road immediately.
I used Alcohol as my medication. I would get up early enough to drink a 12 pack of beer before I could get out and drive. (I was already an alcoholic anyway, and a 12 pack really didn't effect my driving skills at all, it actually made me safer than having a Panic attack in traffic.)
Over the years, most anywhere I had a full board Panic Attack more than once, made me try to avoid those situations. Eventually, this caused what I refer to as anticipation anxiety. Just the thought of knowing I'd be in a situation would start the anxiety build up, so I'd "medicate" myself enough to calm me down and hopefully avoid an Attack. It was always (and still is) worse when something is sprung on me, with no time to prepare.
I quit drinking in '94, after lenghtly stay in Detox and out patient services. Now I had no "medication" to control the AD. Doctors still weren't accepting the concept of AD, just thought it was in my mind, it won't kill me, just need not stress, etc. Finally, a doctor gave me Xanax and after about a week, it started working.
I had, and continued to add other situations (for no reason I can think of) that would bring on attacks. As stupid and embarrassed as it makes me feel the main areas that bring on attacks are; Heavy traffic, bridges, tunnels, airplanes & high mountain roads. Now this may appear to be more along the lines of Claustrophopic, but I am far from that. It's more like I need to know I have "control" over situations. I like to fish in the mountains, I'll drive my truck on high roads (devoid of traffic) with having to watch my tires to keep from falling off into canyons. I could be stuck in an elevator and not feel anxiety at all. In emergency situations, I react quickly with basically no fear at all. That's the strange part of AD, makes one feel so utterly ridiculous to have these attacks in such simple situations, but they are very real and no way to explain why.
So, I guess my point might be, that it could very well be possible that episodic CHer's (chronic ???) who have some form of AD, knowing their cycle was coming could develop "anticipation" anxiety and possibly even lead up to Panic Attacks.
I do strongly believe however, that AD does not cause CH! There is a chance that CH could cause anxiety, but not neccessarily AD, but I can keep an open mind on that. I would first have to see case studies much more indepth than this doctor did. He could have found us so easily, and we would have been more than willing to help. Since he did not, I can't help but think he just came up with a theory you could easily apply to hundreds of things.
But you do indeed present a possibility of a connection of some type. Much better than the doc proposed.
(See, I knew if anyone looked into this just a little, they could come up with more than this doc did :) )
Good thinking Ave. Surfshi, are you getting this? Might help when you get a chance to talk to the doctor himself.
Dave

Title: Re: Clusterheadaches & Anxiety
Post by taraann on Oct 8^th, 2003, 10:07am

I suffered from an anxiety disorder after my daughter was born....about 2 yrs ago and it was only a problem for about 6 months or so. Now I get anxious sometimes about getting an attack but no panic attacks or anything anymore......

It would be an interesting study if this doc really does look into it further

Title: Re: Clusterheadaches & Anxiety
Post by Surf on Oct 8^th, 2003, 12:18pm

Yes Dave I'm getting this. Sure appreciate you sharing this with us. I will keep you updated. thanks again all of you...Surf

Title: Re: Clusterheadaches & Anxiety
Post by floridian on Oct 9^th, 2003, 7:22am

If someones has clusters and their hypothalamus and neurotransmitters are screwed up, they are at a higher risk of having an anxiety disorder. That idea is not outrageous to me - there is some evidence, although it has not be thoroughly proven.

An anxiety disorder is different from the normal tensions we feel every day. If you ever had difficulty getting in front of a crowd to speak, take that feeling and multiply by 10 or 100. That is what a panic attack feels like. Parts of the brain shut down, while other parts go beserk. There is an impending feeling that you are going to die, or atleast pass out. Blood drains from the extremities. The muscles get weak and tremble.

I don't think that clusters cause anxiety disorders though they can aggravate it. My panic attacks started years befor the clusters did. And I don't think anxiety causes clusters in any way. It's clear from this discussion that lots of clusterheads don't have an anxiety disorder. But anxiety disorders may be more common in clusterheads than in the general public.

Title: Re: Clusterheadaches & Anxiety
Post by Charlie M on Oct 9^th, 2003, 8:33am

anything is possible. STRESS thats a normal part of life but knowing the pain from CH is enought to send anyone over the edge. myself i find that i also tend to avoid confrontation, pick my battles but seam to blow up when i'v had my full of bullshit. ??? Charlie M

Title: Re: Clusterheadaches & Anxiety
Post by Surf on Oct 15^th, 2003, 12:11pm

bump

Title: Re: Clusterheadaches & Anxiety
Post by nancyc on Oct 15^th, 2003, 1:04pm

I never had a panic attack until 10 years after getting chs...think my lifestyle at the time created alot of anxiety in me...i have not had a panic attack in years though I tend to have a problem dealing with anxiety now...I have noticed when I get really anxious , I start getting hit....My anxiety level today is at a 10...just praying the beast does not know that... ::)nancyc

Title: Re: Clusterheadaches & Anxiety
Post by Charlie on Oct 15^th, 2003, 4:28pm

Pretty thin and dull conclusion. This is the kind of dimwitted junk everyone seems to publish to fill some requirement. God forbid one would state something specific. Not much chance of being challenged here.

I have something some call social anxiety that is mitigated greatly when I make an effort to deal with the rest of the world. It must be a common thing among reclusive types. There's nothing mysterious about it.

As for anxiety and CH, the more stress, the better. Mine began to disappear during the most stressful time of my life. Beats me.

Charlie

Title: Re: Clusterheadaches & Anxiety
Post by oringkid on Oct 15^th, 2003, 6:45pm

Whomsoever thought to post to this to bump it... thank you!!

Ok...Get off the "CH causes anxiety" or "Anxiety causes CH" deal. Let's think of them both as symptoms. Not only panic attacks, or anxiety attacks or disorders but also lets include TMJ (Temporal Mandible Joint Syndrome) Ulcers, Tension Headaches, Tooth Grinding... all those seemingly disparate stress related things.

Who here has NEVER, I mean NEVER had at least ONE of these things?

I would be willing to bet no one... OK, lets say some of you are saying... "nope, not me, never!" Ok, then, do you drink? Smoke? Do drugs (whether recreational or prescribed) that help you... "chill out" or escape or "relax" you?

I am willing to bet that if there is one person out there that says they have CH and has none of the above... then they do not have CH!!

I find this actually fascinating!! First of all... remember according to the original post this doctor is talking about experiencing anxiety or panic attacks while OUT of cycle!!

He says during the time BETWEEN cycles!!! And that is exactly when I have experienced most if not all of my "stress" related problems. TMJ, Panic Attacks, Pre Ulcerative symptoms, Stress headaches.

Patrick A. You recently came back from China and the doctor you saw mentioned a chemical that we do not produce that most others do.... I think it would be VERY helpful if your wife and you would look into EXACTLY translating what chemical that doctor was speaking of.

I know, sounds silly but, damnit! If it can be figured out, don't you want it to be? Or do you enjoy the pain that much?

There IS a connection here, somewhere... I can feel it.

When I was severely, clinically depressed, the seratonin reuptake inhibitors made it worse, but wellbutrin which affected the norephrine (sp) as well as the seratonin was a miracle drug for me... I have never been as intractably or lengthily(sp) depressed since. Only short term specifically based episodes. Which is normal for all people. And at that point, I went from twice or once a year (ch episodes) to once every 2 years!

I think this merits some further research and I for one would be willing to help in any way I can (other than putting up the money ;D)

Sherry

Title: Re: Clusterheadaches & Anxiety
Post by kim on Oct 15^th, 2003, 9:31pm

K. I was calm but now i'm sure i'm having a panic attack ;D

Why? I don't know. Possibly because i'm NOT having a cluster attack 8)

HeeeHawwwwwwwwwww

Oh Fuck it. We're all haywired. Nawmal is as nawmal doees 8)

Abby :-*

Title: Re: Clusterheadaches & Anxiety
Post by badfly on Oct 16^th, 2003, 4:48am

Quote:

Ok...Get off the "CH causes anxiety" or "Anxiety causes CH" deal. Let's think of them both as symptoms. Not only panic attacks, or anxiety attacks or disorders but also lets include TMJ (Temporal Mandible Joint Syndrome) Ulcers, Tension Headaches, Tooth Grinding... all those seemingly disparate stress related things.

Quote:

Ok, then, do you drink? Smoke? Do drugs (whether recreational or prescribed) that help you... "chill out" or escape or "relax" you?

Sigh ... if you were to ask anyone that then they too were suffering from anxiety disorders that were causing them to not have CH or their anxiety was caused cos they didnt have CH. Come now folks, looking for answers is the thing to be doing, but clutching at straws is not gonna help anyone.

Title: Re: Clusterheadaches & Anxiety
Post by Dave_Emond on Oct 16^th, 2003, 5:30am

Quote:

Patrick A. You recently came back from China and the doctor you saw mentioned a chemical that we do not produce that most others do.... I think it would be VERY helpful if your wife and you would look into EXACTLY translating what chemical that doctor was speaking of.

Just wondering? Could he have been referring to Melatonin?

Dave

Title: Re: Clusterheadaches & Anxiety
Post by Surf on Oct 16^th, 2003, 4:18pm

Sherry, and all. Hi it's Surf;
[quotThere IS a connection here, somewhere... I can feel it.

e][/quote]

Title: Re: Clusterheadaches & Anxiety
Post by Surf on Oct 16^th, 2003, 4:34pm

Sherry, I like your attitude ya ole onry, I am not done with this yet mind you,ok. I want answers as all of you do and by darn i am going to search hi and low until I am satisfied or not. So Sherry, chill a tad but not to much, cause your attitude makes me wonna rock, It's been along time comin on that note for me. I want an answer by darn and I'm gonna get it, It's the least I deserve for myself. Ye ole onry one. ;)...Take care now, all of you...Surf

Title: Re: Clusterheadaches & Anxiety
Post by oringkid on Oct 16^th, 2003, 6:28pm

Ok, did I come off as a tad... uh...frenetic? Over the top? Out of my freakin' mind? LOL!! Sorry folks, must be the lack of nicotine! LOL.

But, I must say, Badfly, I have read what you posted after my post... and... maybe it's still the lowered levels of nicotine... but I got no clue what you were saying there!

Anyway, I just think that a lot of this stuff may be related.

Maybe what you were saying Badfly, was that if what I was saying were true then everyone with anxiety, etc. would have CH? Well, I don't think that necessarily follows. It could be that due to a deformity of the hypothalamus that when our brain chemicals become unbalanced, we not only have things like depression, panic etc., but it also screws with other things that the hypothalamus regulates.

Ya know, this makes sense in my mind.... LOL!

Sounds weird, but it really falls into line with the findings that researchers have found so far...

Anyway, keep on surfin' surf! And thanks for posting Cathy!

Sherry (she's a superfreak, superfreak, she's super freaking, ooouuuut!)

Title: Re: Clusterheadaches & Anxiety
Post by badfly on Oct 17^th, 2003, 4:38am

Hehe he hehe sorry folks, dont know what happened there. Maybe I "zoned out", maybe it was the nicotine withdrawel or maybe we should go back to callin me barfly.

Alright! I been hovering around this board chiming in and chippen away, but I dont think my ideas are comming across. Yes this is gonna be a long one so if ya want, take notes. I have been around, like many of you I've seen almost every miricle cure post, what we got in common post, the hyperthalmus this, anxiety that, alcohole, cigerrettes, stress, seasonel change, barometric pressure, detox this and what I eat post that has been posted over the last 4 years. You know what? It aint that! I dont know what it is, but I know I got it. And having it I gotta be prepared to fight. Fight for the rest of my life if I have to, cos it aint that.
Is it a western thing? Are all the Profs, Docs and Quacks saying, it happens mostly in the west. White middle aged smokers with good income and stressful jobs. I've heard it, but I dont believe it. I heard its smokers and alcoholics. CRAP ! The truth is they dont know. Their statistics come from us and we dont know what we got. 10 years ago ppl new jack about this. Its only cos of this site and OUCH and a slow growing seed of understanding in the medical comunity that we are beginning to scratch the surface of this Devil and see all the ppl who are suffering.
I dont want to point fingers at anybody, so I am going to speak in vague terms here. WAKE UP!! Look outside the borders of your country. What are the stats of CH suferrers in Africa? China? India? How can anyone claim to make statistical, honest statistical analasys of CH suferrers when studying mostly North America or Western Europe and come out with the biggest load of horse crap I have ever read since learning HIV I was gods punishment for gays. White, smoking males?
When I first read about Hyperthalmus research I was elated. Genuine medical research. Proven statistics at a bonifide university. Why is it took me 3 years to find out that the hyperthalmus is only deformed in episodic sufferrers while in a cycle. Hello!! That could be a symtom as easily as a cause!
Most of these questions are no brainers. Could there be a link between CH and stress? Sure. Do real research and honest statistical analyses and lets see the results. Can there be a relation between sleep disorders and CH. Could be. But where is the FUCKING research. 23 ppl is not research. Some of you are just cluching at straws. You gotta learn to deal with what you got. GET ASSERTIVE WITH YOUR DOCTOR! Demand the medication or O2 that you need. Keep asking/nagging the medical comunity for answers, but dont follow blindly like sheep. Just cos some academic or doc or whatever has written an article of some kind, dont just accept it as fact.
If so many here are so sure there is a conection between CH, stress, anxiety and or obsesive/compulsive behaviors, WHY are mushrooms so purposefully ignored? The shrooms freak you all out cos they make you halucinate, mess with your mind etc. Well isnt that what you are looking at? Anxiety is a chemical imbalence? Obsesive/compulsive is in the mind too. I think some of you want some quack to say its "THIS". Take this blue pill 3 times a day and that will be that. If its a doc and its a pharma drug, then thats got to be it. Right?
WRONG! If we want to find the cause and we want to find genuine relief, we will have to explore all the paths before us. What do the herbalists say? What does LSD research tell us? What has Goadsby learned? The fact of the matter is this is going to be a long painful journey and we as a comunity need to buck up and be more responsable. If we go running around shouting this is it we have got it now, everytime some 3rd year Grad, Prof, Doc or Quack claims to have found a correlation between CH and his field of expertease, we will blow our engines long before the finnish line. Lets be serious and sober in our analasys of data and research being bandied about.

I'm sorry if I have come off like that nut standing on his soap box on the corner, but I think it important that we realise that we are all suffering and will continue to suffer for quite some time to come. We must pace ourselves and be weary of all these red herrings.

My name is John and I have CH. I dont know what causes it but I know it makes my life more difficult then most. I did not bring this on myself! I am not being pannished! Its not cause I started smoking as a kid behind the school. Its not cause I drank before I was legally allowed. Its not cause I worked the graveyard shift or slept in the afternoons as a kid. All that shit just sounds like a stranger saying "oooh I had bad headaches too, so I stoped drinking milk and now I am fine". We all hate that right? Yeah well I hate this too.

PS: Sorry I havnt written much firebrix, mopar, works been hectic and quitten the nicotine crutch has got me limping.

Title: Re: Clusterheadaches & Anxiety
Post by cathy on Oct 17^th, 2003, 3:17pm

"Never be bullied into silence. Never allow yourself to be made a victim. Accept no one's definition of your life; define yourself."

Cathy

Title: Re: Clusterheadaches & Anxiety
Post by Carl_D on Oct 17^th, 2003, 3:35pm

Stress? Anxiety? Panic Attacks?

Just a part of my everyday dysfunctional life. In fact...we had no drummer and have gigs coming up... PANIC!
WE get a new drummer, and I am not here to see what is happening, so at home - PANIC!
I get here and we are rockin' the paradise down gutter alley - YES! (oops! stress)
Everytime I look over and see an OUCHFest flyer - PANIC PANIC PANIC PANIC

My everyday life is filled with nothing but chronic, constant headpain from not just CH, but also factor in TMJ, One side actually dislocated, CPH (star wars lasers),
I told my bassplayer when he asked why I was staring spaced out, I told him I am playing PONG in my mind right now.

B'limp!

Peace,
Carl D

Man, you know your old when you can remember being mesmerized by a dot bouncing back and forth on a t'v' screen - NOw you can get a helmet strapped on, electrodes placed, and place cyberbattles from hell...
Anyone up for a good 'ole game of Rhummy?

Title: Re: Clusterheadaches & Anxiety
Post by oringkid on Oct 17^th, 2003, 8:32pm

I don't think anyone is running around screaming they've got it! (cept for a notable few which are in the minority)

We are merely bandying about some thoughts. Nothing wrong with that. In fact, there would be no answers, inventions, discoveries or cures for anything without that kind of thinking.

Clutching at straws is part of hope. It is also part of our unique ability for reasoning and problem solving. Sure, I get aggravated at the "I've found the cure!" stuff... but I do read it. And perhaps part of what these people think is the cure could actually be a piece of the puzzle that will lead to the eventual cure. The answer is probably not going to fall, intact, pure and shining into some highly qualified, unimaginably intelligent, super scientist or doctors lap. The way could be unintentionally suggested by a janitor, looking over the shoulder of some hard working research assistant. You just never know. If we close our minds and wait till the "messiah" of medicine suddenly appears and hands us the answer on a golden platter, we will probably never find our answers.

I say, think, wonder, suppose, guess! We can be intelligent about it. And many here are good at trying to make sure that others here are not mislead by "miracle cures" or hoaxes. Just relaying information to each other is good, and helpful, I think. Who knows? By sharing all this info, bad and good, one of us might actually hit upon something that will eventually unlock this puzzle!

I may not have money or connections, and I may be backward when it comes to writing senators or pharmacies, but I have a good brain, and it would be such a waste not to use it.

Just my 2 cents

Sherry

Title: Re: Clusterheadaches & Anxiety
Post by floridian on Oct 17^th, 2003, 8:39pm

Well put. Get Active. Everybody!!