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Title: Am I becoming a junky ? Post by UnsolvedEquation on Sep 8th, 2003, 12:14am I'm doing my best not to take more than 12 mg of Imitrex (injections). Doc says I'm gonna blow my heart up if I keep taking so much. He also says that Imitrex is probably what is keeping the frequency of my headaches so high (rebound). Tonight...after my 4 th headache of the day...I went to the ER for some pain meds. By the time the doc was able to see me an hour and a half had past and my headache was almost gone. I even told him so. Without any pain meds, my headache probably would've been completly gone in another 10 - 15 minutes...but I still took the shot of Morphine. The thing is...I think I'm starting to like the effects of Morphine, Stadol, and Demerol. I don't want to become a 'junky'. I've seen so many people lose everything because of drugs. But the docs are insisting that I should go to the ER for meds rather than take more than 2 shots a day. If I follow their advice, I could be in the ER 4 - 5 times a week. Any advice for me ? Stuck between a rock and a hard place ! |
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Title: Re: Am I becoming a junky ? Post by jonny on Sep 8th, 2003, 12:17am on 09/08/03 at 00:14:20, UnsolvedEquation wrote:
Smart Doc, listen to him!! ........................jonny |
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Title: Re: Am I becoming a junky ? Post by kim on Sep 8th, 2003, 12:27am Cluster attack: up to 1.5 hours........several times throughout day and nite. Druggs: mess you up all day and all nite long. Imitrex: look to the left buttons for imitrex tip; plus there is a bunch of non- med stuff you can do for aborting an attack , i drink lots of hot coffee and use cold compress to face. No need to deal with morphine. it will hurt you more in the long run. Well wishes, Kim |
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Title: Re: Am I becoming a junky ? Post by Not4Hire on Sep 8th, 2003, 12:33am ...UE... ya sound like a guy that's not afraid to take *strong medicine*..... try some shrooms...after you've read up on the uh, ...commitment to change ( if not to cure) the MOFO.... it's not for everybody. but at least, it's worth a look.... good luck and i hope you find yer key... Steve--N4 <<<<my email is over there |
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Title: Re: Am I becoming a junky ? Post by UnsolvedEquation on Sep 8th, 2003, 12:43am Kim...I don't need any tips on using Imitrex...I know as much about it as anybody does...but thanx anyways. Steve...I've never tried shrooms. It's prolly the only thing I haven't tried. I'll look into it and maybe try it, but so far...there's only a few things that will abort an attack for me. Imitrex, Demerol, Morphine, and Stadol (Big doses). |
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Title: Re: Am I becoming a junky ? Post by Mark C on Sep 8th, 2003, 12:58am |
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Title: Re: Am I becoming a junky ? Post by UnsolvedEquation on Sep 8th, 2003, 12:59am 02 only works for breathing. Won't stop an attack. |
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Title: Re: Am I becoming a junky ? Post by Mark C on Sep 8th, 2003, 1:12am LOL...I understand. I am going to try oxygen this year...something new for me. Imitrex is the nectar of the Gods but I too have the same problem of bumping up against the limit. I read a post from a guy in Sweeden a while back that said he used up to 10(!) 6 mg shots a day. I think I may have used 5 in 24 hours but the effect seems to lessen with more use. If the second shot don't kill it more don't help. I can cycle ever 3 or 4 hours on a bad day though. Shrooms are on the list also...never tried them medicinally but I would piss on a sparkplug if it would stop an attack. Been down the narcotic road quite a few times also....I can eventually render myself quite senseless and still have a HA....the Triptans are the first thing to ever help....but I am always looking. I wish I could find the"magic mix" for an effective preventive but no luck so far. :-/ Cool website too...I hope to spend some more time developing my html skills so I may pick your brain ;D PFDAN's http://www.drfeller.com/Mark/mark.gif |
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Title: Re: Am I becoming a junky ? Post by Georgia on Sep 8th, 2003, 2:03am on 09/08/03 at 00:43:25, UnsolvedEquation wrote:
The Imitrex tip Kim was pointing you to tells you how to break one injection into 3...using only 2mgs per attack. What that means for you is: you could treat 6 attacks a day with Imitrex without going over your 12mg limit....it also means that the issue of going to the ER for narcotics would become moot. |
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Title: Re: Am I becoming a junky ? Post by Callico_Kid on Sep 8th, 2003, 2:12am Mark, I haven't tried the sparkplug therapy yet, but I will if you tell me it works. Does it have to be live or can it just be lying loose on the floor? U.E. O2 only works for me if i get to it EARLY in an attack. I try to use it before a shadow even expresses itself. I don't think you are a junkie yet. As long as you realize the danger I don't think you have crossed the line, but please be careful. It can reach out and get a hold on you before you know it. jc |
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Title: Re: Am I becoming a junky ? Post by UnsolvedEquation on Sep 8th, 2003, 2:16am Like I said...I don't need any tips about how to use Imitrex. I can take em' apart and take however many mgs I feel I need blindfolded in record time! By the way...I require 4 mg each dose...2 mg won't do the trick. But again...thanx anyways :) |
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Title: Re: Am I becoming a junky ? Post by OneEyeBlind on Sep 8th, 2003, 5:08am Have you tried the dance ???? Try excercise to decrease the pain level. Natural, inexpensive, and will never cause a rebound. I've heard that large doses of Imitrex can cause rebounds. Good luck !!!!!!! |
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Title: Re: Am I becoming a junky ? Post by Donna on Sep 8th, 2003, 7:25am The only way you will know if you are hooked or not is by not using any pain meds..........if you are addicted you will become ill on the second day....worse on the third, etc.......until you are crawling around begging for help or looking for a fix. And.......you can become hooked within two weeks if you are taking high enough doses. Depends on the half life of the drug. |
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Title: Re: Am I becoming a junky ? Post by UnsolvedEquation on Sep 8th, 2003, 7:34am Well...In that case, I'm definatley not hooked yet. I guess I just felt a little guilty due to the fact that I sorta liked the effects and maybe i'm afraid that getting hooked might be what happens if I follow my docs advice. |
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Title: Re: Am I becoming a junky ? Post by Donna on Sep 8th, 2003, 7:43am I'm so glad that you aren't!! I watched a couple of young people very close to me fight with this problem. It is heart breaking to watch someone who really wants to quit struggle for years trying to get back to almost normal. It is a tough battle, and very frustrating. Please be careful. |
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Title: Re: Am I becoming a junky ? Post by Tiannia on Sep 8th, 2003, 11:11am I too worry about that but at this time it is not due to the CH. I take codine for my back and when I got pregnant they told me that was going to have issues because I had to go off of it and it is addictive. But I stopped cold turkey without an issue and do it now every comple of weeks to make sure that I can. The only problem I have with that is that I can not move really well cause my back locks up and I am in a shit load of pain. But the codine does nothing for the headaches. I wish it did then I could kill two birds with one stone. ::) |
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Title: Re: Am I becoming a junky ? Post by Hound_Dogg on Sep 8th, 2003, 12:05pm on 09/08/03 at 07:25:37, Donna wrote:
??? Not trying to pick on ya or anything Donna, but if a diabetic took this route...then they are addicted to insulin. If someone who's been using steroids, for a while, took this route...then they are addicted to steroids. Addiction---the unrelenting urge to use a substance (Narcotics, in this case), without any medical need &without any care as to effects on health. Dependence- Physical cravings that appear after suddenly stopping a substance that the body has become accustomed to Someone can be truly addicted to a narcotic without having dependence and vice versa. Dependence is a normal occurrence of long term narcotic use. The development of dependence is different with each individual...usually 1 month of chronic narcotic use, and is usually easily abated by a "slow taper" of the offending narcotic. Unsolved...I would ask myself..."am I using this medication for pain, or am I just liking the way it makes me feel. Are you taking it, when not in pain...just to get a good night's sleep." also, you have to ask your Doctor about "Dependence", and how he/she will manage this problem if or when it occurs. If your taking it for reasons other then pain..then it's time to step back and evaluate if this medication is worth the problems that it may present. E-Mail or I.M. me if you have any other questions. Jim Good luck |
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Title: Re: Am I becoming a junky ? Post by don on Sep 8th, 2003, 12:15pm Quote:
And thats just the physical aspect. A psychological addiction can begin almost immediately. |
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Title: Re: Am I becoming a junky ? Post by Tiannia on Sep 8th, 2003, 12:49pm Aye - with my codine - when there is a need I take it. I figure I am doing etreemly well if I can take less then what is actually prescribed and only take it when I need it for the pain, ie I can not move do to the pain. And not just take it cause I want the high and I do not want to give a shit. The codine can give you a high that makes you not care so much that you are in pain and not really help with the pain but makes you care less. |
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Title: Re: Am I becoming a junky ? Post by jonny on Sep 8th, 2003, 2:29pm on 09/08/03 at 00:59:35, UnsolvedEquation wrote:
Hmmmmmm!! I guess I was dreaming about knocking the beast on his ass four times last night by using 02, matter of fact I emptied the tank dry in this dream and had to get refilled today. Man, my dreams run right into my waking hours....LMAO ;D ....................................jonny |
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Title: Re: Am I becoming a junky ? Post by Georgia on Sep 8th, 2003, 2:57pm Jonny - What happened to you being PF?? Sorry that you are getting hit again. :( Are you thinking about going back on the meds? Did you ever stop them totally? Clueless in Texas, G |
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Title: Re: Am I becoming a junky ? Post by jonny on Sep 8th, 2003, 3:05pm I never stopped taking the meds....I guess my free ride is up......LOL ;D Thanks Georgia but it aint nuttin but a thang, was a great ride though ;D ................................jonny |
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Title: Re: Am I becoming a junky ? Post by ksmiggy on Sep 8th, 2003, 3:22pm Getting addicted to your painkillers, is not something you want, i was worried the same as you, I found myself on 100 tabs every 2 weeks (500mg paracetamol,30mg Codiene),on top of a few immigran injections, even i was concerned, best thing to do is try to find another painkiller that works, and rotate what you use, don't rely on just one abortive, even when you find a good one, keep searching, the more options you have , the better. |
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Title: Re: Am I becoming a junky ? Post by miCHel on Sep 8th, 2003, 3:33pm Hi U.E., Very good question. I have asked myself the same thing but in a different way. You see, I only found out about Imitrex shots 2-3 years ago (on this site). Before that, I had to go through every attack without any help (all the other "junk" i tried was completely useless). That lasted for more than 15 years but I still managed. But now, using Trex (which works like a charm for me everytime) seems to have reduced my endurance. Whenever I find myself with no more shots or have gone way over my limit and try to fight an attack without it, it seems much tougher to fight the beast compared to when I had no idea there was a magic cure for this thing. Anyone else experienced this? Or am I becoming a wimp? Hummm... I wonder ;) Sorry, I have no answers for you U.E.. Just more questions... Just be careful out there. miCHel PS Jonny, sorry your PF ride is over. I wish you a much longer one really really soon. |
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Title: Re: Am I becoming a junky ? Post by UnsolvedEquation on Sep 8th, 2003, 4:43pm Thanks to you all for your responses. I truely am using the narcotics to reduce my pain. I have never went to the ER or taken pain meds at home for the high. I use Imitrex injections like they're going out of style. I prefer Imitrex over any other drug and always exceed the limit before an ER visit. The doctors are the ones that are telling me to use the ER and the narcotics. I just don't think they realize yet how much I will be needing narcotics if I taper back to only 12 mg of Imitrex a day. But they are insisting that the Imitrex will do me in if I keep at this pace. I just feel like if I follow the docs advice ( several doctors ) I will almost definatley become hooked and that's the last thing I need right now ( another problem ). I wish that the O2 worked for me like it does for so many others, but it just doesn't. I have only a few sources of relief: Imitrex injections, DHE 45 IV, or big doses of strong narcotics also thru an IV. I've tried everything else under the sun and been to many 'headache specialist'...they just can't help me. The possibility of becoming hooked: When I think about the future and the possiblity of using lots of narcotics, I think of my 10 yr old son and how much WE NEED EACH OTHER. I don't want to ever let him down or not be able to be there for him. I love him too much to become a druggie ! |
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Title: Re: Am I becoming a junky ? Post by jonny on Sep 8th, 2003, 5:10pm Are you using the 02 the right way?....yup, theres a right way, right flow, right mask and getting to it in time. I used it 12 yrs ago and it did nothing for me....I washed up here and was taught the right way and now I kick that beasts ass all over hell. ...................................jonny |
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Title: Re: Am I becoming a junky ? Post by UnsolvedEquation on Sep 8th, 2003, 6:09pm Yes Johnny, I believe that I am using it right. I've tried it several times and I still have a tank here now. I try it the second I feel one coming on, I crank up the airflow to 10, and I use a mask. Everytime I try it my headache gets so bad in such a short time, I have to quit using it, grab the Imitrex, and start rockin'. Most of the time I also place a VERY HOT rag on my eye too. The hotter the better. (I use the microwave to heat it up...sometimes til its so hot I can bearly touch it with my hands but I have no problem with it on my face). I wish it would work for me half as good as it works for you. |
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Title: Re: Am I becoming a junky ? Post by jonny on Sep 8th, 2003, 6:21pm Non-rebreather mask?......Its the only mask that gives you 100 % pure 02 15 LPM's is way more effective than 10 might want to think about trying it again, Bro .................................jonny |
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Title: Re: Am I becoming a junky ? Post by UnsolvedEquation on Sep 8th, 2003, 9:43pm yea, I use a non-rebreather mask but I only cranked it up to 12. I thought that was as high as it would go. I'll check it again ( haven't even touched it in a while ) and maybe give it a try on my next 'party O pain'. Thanks Johnny ;D |
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Title: Re: Am I becoming a junky ? Post by surfshi on Sep 8th, 2003, 11:02pm Please be careful with the narcotics.. If you can seek out alternative therapies,,, This great website is full of them,,, like ice packs, or even explore your pressure points...I don't think pein on a spark plug would do any good but if you try it let us know....Be careful. and let us know how your doin...and what alternatives you have tried lets start today with a list of new alternative therapies that don't include narcotics and again let us know... |
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Title: Re: Am I becoming a junky ? Post by Headacheboy on Sep 8th, 2003, 11:31pm Have you ever tried prednisone? The only med I could always count on. Headacheboy. |
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Title: I beg to differ, Hound Dog Post by Donna on Sep 8th, 2003, 11:36pm on 09/08/03 at 12:05:59, Hound_Dogg wrote:
The use of narcotic drugs damages nerve recptors of the brain and can only be restored by medical treatment. It in no way mimics diabetics meds or other medical problems. Mechanism of Action Opiates elicit their powerful effects by activating opiate receptors that are widely distributed throughout the brain and body. Once an opiate reaches the brain, it quickly activates the opiate receptors that are found in many brain regions and produces an effect that correlates with the area of the brain involved. Two important effects produced by opiates, such as morphine, are pleasure (or reward) and pain relief. The brain itself also produces substances known as endorphins that activate the opiate receptors. Research indicates that endorphins are involved in many things, including respiration, nausea, vomiting, pain modulation, and hormonal regulation. When opiates are prescribed by a physician for the treatment of pain and are taken in the prescribed dosage, they are safe and there is little chance of addiction. However, when opiates are abused and taken in excessive doses, addiction can result. Findings from animal research indicate that, like cocaine and other abused drugs, opiates can also activate the brain's reward system. When a person injects, sniffs, or orally ingests heroin (or morphine), the drug travels quickly to the brain through the bloodstream. Once in the brain, the heroin is rapidly converted to morphine, which then activates opiate receptors located throughout the brain, including within the reward system. (Note: Because of its chemical structure, heroin penetrates the brain more quickly than other opiates, which is probably why many addicts prefer heroin.) Within the reward system, the morphine activates opiate receptors in the VTA, nucleus accumbens, and cerebral cortex (refer to the Introduction for information on the reward system). Research suggests that stimulation of opiate receptors by morphine results in feelings of reward and activates the pleasure circuit by causing greater amounts of dopamine to be released within the nucleus accumbens. This causes an intense euphoria, or rush, that lasts only briefly and is followed by a few hours of a relaxed, contented state. This excessive release of dopamine and stimulation of the reward system can lead to addiction. Opiates also act directly on the respiratory center in the brainstem, where they cause a slowdown in activity. This results in a decrease in breathing rate. Excessive amounts of an opiate, like heroin, can cause the respiratory centers to shut down breathing altogether. When someone overdoses on heroin, it is the action of heroin in the brainstem respiratory centers that can cause the person to stop breathing and die. Continued on page 2 |
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Title: Re: Am I becoming a junky ? Post by Donna on Sep 8th, 2003, 11:40pm As mentioned earlier, the brain itself produces endorphins that have an important role in the relief or modulation of pain. Sometimes, though, particularly when pain is severe, the brain does not produce enough endorphins to provide pain relief. Fortunately, opiates, such as morphine are very powerful pain relieving medications. When used properly under the care of a physician, opiates can relieve severe pain without causing addiction. Feelings of pain are produced when specialized nerves are activated by trauma to some part of the body, either through injury or illness. These specialized nerves, which are located throughout the body, carry the pain message to the spinal cord. After reaching the spinal cord, the message is relayed to other neurons, some of which carry it to the brain. Opiates help to relieve pain by acting in both the spinal cord and brain. At the level of the spinal cord, opiates interfere with the transmission of the pain messages between neurons and therefore prevent them from reaching the brain. This blockade of pain messages protects a person from experiencing too much pain. This is known as analgesia. Opiates also act in the brain to help relieve pain, but the way in which they accomplish this is different than in the spinal cord. There are several areas in the brain that are involved in interpreting pain messages and in subjective responses to pain. These brain regions are what allow a person to know he or she is experiencing pain and that it is unpleasant. Opiates also act in these brain regions, but they don't block the pain messages themselves. Rather, they change the subjective experience of the pain. This is why a person receiving morphine for pain may say that they still feel the pain but that it doesn't bother them anymore. Although endorphins are not always adequate to relieve pain, they are very important for survival. If an animal or person is injured and needs to escape a harmful situation, it would be difficult to do so while experiencing severe pain. However, endorphins that are released immediately following an injury can provide enough pain relief to allow escape from a harmful situation. Later, when it is safe, the endorphin levels decrease and intense pain may be felt. This also is important for survival. If the endorphins continued to blunt the pain, it would be easy to ignore an injury and then not seek medical care. There are several types of opiate receptors, including the delta, mu, and kappa receptors. Each of these three receptors is involved in controlling different brain functions. For example, opiates and endorphins are able to block pain signals by binding to the mu receptor site. The powerful new technology of cloning has enabled scientists to copy the genes that make each of these receptors. This in turn is allowing researchers to conduct laboratory studies to better understand how opiates act in the brain and, more specifically, how opiates interact with each opiate receptor to produce their effects. This information may eventually lead to more effective treatments for pain and opiate addiction. I have done extensive research on the addiction of drugs and have a vast library of information. If you are still not convinced that drug addiction is in a catagory by itself, I will be happy to provide more reading material. People just don't know the hazards of pain meds unless they know someone who was innocently addicted and tried to quit....it almost always is impossible to do by yourself. |
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Title: Re: Am I becoming a junky ? Post by UnsolvedEquation on Sep 9th, 2003, 12:21am Thanks for all that info Donna. Quote:
I do realize how hard it could be to quit if I was to get hooked. My best friend is now serving time in prison because he let his addiction take control. I won't go into detail about the things he did to get there, but he did some pretty stupid things to keep his supply. I think if I didn't realize the dangers of addiction, I wouldn't fear it. Headache Boy...YES...I have been on Prednisone several times, for long periods. It will also work for me as long as I stay at 60 mg / day or higher and I can't do that for very long...that stuff is just too bad for your body to handle for very long. PREDNISONE WILL KILL YOU TOO ! |
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Title: becoming a junky Post by rumplestiltskin on Sep 9th, 2003, 3:27am Quote:
uh...nevermind...thought I'd something more to add. den |
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Title: Re: Am I becoming a junky ? Post by badfly on Sep 9th, 2003, 4:26am I tried o2 at 7 and then 10 litres, and got no relief. Only when I got over 12 (15 is best I think) did I ever get good relief. |
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Title: Re: Am I becoming a junky ? Post by Hound_Dogg on Sep 9th, 2003, 2:51pm I am not doubting that addiction is a seperate issue that CANNOT be helped with only a slow taper. Addiction is a serious issue that needs different treatment that include: "Slow Taper of the offending medication", counseling, & education. Addiction is very serious & my intention of my post was not to say addiction is ok as long as you slowly taper of the Narcotic....or that it is not an issue with medication....what I was intending is that most people who use Narcotics chronically will develop the exact syndrome that you explained to Unsolved Equation. It is called "dependence" & it is a normal, albeit discomforting side effect of using opioids chronically. A Patient who is using opioids chronically & suddenly stops taking the medication will develop a "withdrawal syndrome" that may include the following: Restlessness, anxiety, Rhinnorhea (runny nose), goose flesh (hence the term "Going Cold Turkey") & increased muscle pain & twitching. This is usually helped with slowly decreasing the medication as well as support medication & is no longer considered "True Addiction". Someone can trully be addicted to narcotics without suffering from a "withdrawal syndrome" when medication is stopped suddenly. This is what I was trying to point out. There are consequences to taking this type of medication and should be a responsible decision by both the patient & Health Practicioner. But it is also a useful medication for chronic pain, when used in a responsible manner. The below is an abstract...that kind of shows what I was pointing out...Sorry, long read": "Fear of incurring opioid addiction is the single, most significant reason that primary care physicians are unwilling to prescribe opioids. The authors assert, "It is essential for physicians to understand what constitutes true iatrogenic addiction." Dependence is not addiction, even though dependence can develop when opioids are necessary to control severe, long-term pain. dependence in the presence of such pain does not imply addiction. Under-treatment is far more prevalent and devastating than the 1% possibility of addiction. Although physicians worry about patients developing tolerance to an opioid, tolerance cannot only result from neuroadaptation to long-term opioids, but may also occur with many other drugs. Tolerance creates a need for higher or more frequent dosages of the medication in question. Tolerance is a two-way street. While tolerance can reduce the individual's sensitivity to common side effects like sedation and nausea, it can also produce a heightened incidence of respiratory depression, nausea, and sedation. Addiction differs markedly from dependence and tolerance. Addiction produces persistently dysfunctional behavior focused on acquiring opioids despite adequate analgesic control. Such behavior may involve trying to obtain unnecessarily frequent dosages and a range of aberrant, drug-related behaviors. Pseudo-addiction is a symptom of significantly under-treated pain. The authors believe that pseudo-addiction results from the patient's attempts at achieving adequate subjective and objective control of pain. Once the patient has gained relief, these abnormal pain-mediated behaviors disappear. Although society's fears of chemical dependence are pervasive, many studies have proven that true addiction among pain sufferers is an exceedingly remote possibility. In terms of the "war on drugs," long-acting opioids for the most part have much lower "street value" than do short-acting opioids. " I think I've seen most every paper on Narcotic Medication, but if you have some you would like to share, send it to my e-mail. Pain-free days & nights Jim |
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Title: Re: Am I becoming a junky ? Post by Linda_Howell on Sep 9th, 2003, 4:59pm UE, I know I can't add something to what you already know and what everyone here has already said, but I can just see MarkC waiting for me to jump in on this one, as I tend to jump on my soap-box regarding people who use narcotics for clusters. They don't work. And if they do it's because you've used them in such massive amounts that you're nothing but a walking zombie....and then you still have clusters AND........another problem. You said it best UE...I have a 10 yr. old son who needs me. I rest my case. LindaH |
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Title: Re: Am I becoming a junky ? Post by Brian_Y on Sep 9th, 2003, 7:06pm painkillers are good. join us. |
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