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Title: INFO on IRAQ US prisoners Post by Riccardo on Mar 23rd, 2003, 12:15pm I've heard now some news about US prisoners in Iraq. Our TV says that your networks are not sure to give these info, so I pass you what I have heard. ///PLEASE, let me know if it is true, so I will continue to send these kind (sad) of info!!!/// 5 US army prisoners: 1 male from New Jersey, 1 male from Kansas, 1 male from Texas, 1 female from Texas, another one male (don't know from where. All males seems so young, fair hair, slim. The woman is a 30 years old afro american, with "rasta" plaits (sp?!?) TV also showed a pair of dozen of marines dead (but you know that these things may be just publicity Ciao |
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Title: Re: INFO on IRAQ US prisoners Post by jonny on Mar 23rd, 2003, 12:44pm Yes, its true Ricky but they are not showing that video on tv here in the US. How did they look?...Did they look like they were beat up? ...............................jonny |
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Title: Re: INFO on IRAQ US prisoners Post by totka on Mar 23rd, 2003, 1:12pm It was a censored version in our tv. Saddam Hussein is a fucking bastard. I hope so he will be executed in no time. totka |
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Title: Re: INFO on IRAQ US prisoners Post by Riccardo on Mar 23rd, 2003, 2:13pm hmmm.... Jonny... The 2 younger ones and the woman were really frightened. They were looking around quickly, and answer at the questions with fear. The 2 older ones seemed more strong, and answered only with name and plate (sp?!) number. But I think that anyone may be frightened in that situation...... Anyway, it seemed to me that they have not suffered any violence. Just a couple of them were lightly wounded, one at the head, the woman at one foot. The weird thing that the woman is the same appeared on many newspaper some weeks ago (at least in Italy) in articles talking about the presence of women on the "battle line"! Ciao Jonny God bless America |
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Title: Re: INFO on IRAQ US prisoners Post by jonny on Mar 23rd, 2003, 2:36pm Thank you my half American friend. ..........................................jonny |
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Title: Re: INFO on IRAQ US prisoners Post by JDH on Mar 23rd, 2003, 8:59pm Riccardo, We haven't seen any of the video in the states but CNN is reporting that some of the dead you spoke of were shot in the head execution style. I'm hoping that's not the case but did you see anything like that? Thank you, Jim |
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Title: Re: INFO on IRAQ US prisoners Post by cootie on Mar 23rd, 2003, 11:33pm Somehow my daughter seen the pic on some news station.......she's in the army but was to be out in Jan. and at home now but they haven't called her in or officially released her yet either.....it really upset her. She explained the pic as what JDH said. All this puts a whole new meaning on the word FEAR. Pam-Coots-that's-sad-about-it-all :'( |
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Title: Re: INFO on IRAQ US prisoners Post by nancyc on Mar 23rd, 2003, 11:50pm God bless you , my American/Italian stallion...please keep us informed...we do appreciate and love you...proud mom of a soldier, nancyc |
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Title: Re: INFO on IRAQ US prisoners Post by fubar on Mar 23rd, 2003, 11:52pm Riccardo, Thanks for the a glimpse into the uncensored news. You know what kills me? This is a 'free' country, yet we have no unwashed, uncensored source of news. If anyone here thinks that doesn't have an incredible effect on how Americans think and act, they are sadly mistaken. When I lived overseas (England, Japan) and during my business travels (80 countries), I noticed that good news is hard to come by, especially in the USA. In most cases around the world, the news outlets are controlled by the government to some degree. Here in the USA, there is an obvious liberal bias in the news reporting, and that's to be expected. However, there is a deeper, more sinister control of the media here than I think most people will acknowledge. I don't mean to sound like a conspiracy theorist, since I don't think all of the media is knowingly participating in this charade, even though they participate nonetheless. For example. Let's look at the recent 'control' of the reporting on details about these dead marines. If I was a liberal, wouldn't I want to avoid reportage that might incite a call to action? In other words, why report on something that might actually upset somebody and maybe make them think twice about their protests? Surely we are all grown-ups. Those who are grieving over lost ones have every right to expect our media to embrace this opportunity to show what horrible attrocities are committed by the enemy.... but no. We have to have the washed up version, no gore, no dead faces. And look how easy it is to cloak this molding of public opinion under the category of 'protecting the public interest'. I'm sick to death of our media 'protecting' us from the news that we need in order to form educated opinions about the world situation. Instead, we are fed prozac-news on CNN and we end up with a completely fucked up view. The fact that Riccardo has to give us reports from the real world is sad proof of how incedibly stupid we are to think that we live in the 'free' world just because we allowed to express our opinions. I don't want my opinions fed to me. Look, I'm proud to be an American. I'm proud of our troops. I'm proud of our president who finally acted when the world would not. God bless him. I'm sad for the majority of Americans who cannot see through the crap the media feeds them. I'm sad for the idealistic protesters who don't even know what they are protesting, other than their dissatisfaction with authority figures. I'm sad that our men and women our giving their very lives to ensure the security of a region in the world where most of the people hate us. It's all very tragic. Perhaps if we had REAL media here, public opinion would be a little better formed and well balanced (maybe not). But it does lead me to question the so-called democratic process when we have so many sheep who accept whatever ideas are stuffed into their brains. =Fu (apologizing in advance for thinking too much on this one) |
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Title: Re: INFO on IRAQ US prisoners Post by Charlie on Mar 24th, 2003, 2:19am Thanks Riccardo. It was nice of you. Yer one of the good guys. Liberal bias had nothing to do with censoring this news. A US Lieutenant General, in a briefing, tore apart Al Jazeera news for broadcasting the pictures so soon, and asked our media to take it easy until the families knew the whole story. He was pissed. If you want bias, watch FOX. It’s pure right wing. They advertise themselves as “fair and balanced news.” This is the kind of thing you get from people who are not fair and balanced. Fox “news” is no doubt Richard Perle and Carl Rove approved. Charlie |
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Title: Re: INFO on IRAQ US prisoners Post by fubar on Mar 24th, 2003, 2:28am Charlie, Sorry, didn't mean to imply it was only the liberal media that is affected. -Fu |
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Title: Re: INFO on IRAQ US prisoners Post by WendyHowe on Mar 24th, 2003, 8:29am Dear US friends. This may be a bit late but they have shown the pictures of the captive servicepeople on Uk TV. I haven't seen the dead soldiers though as I have seen pre-watershed news where they do not show disturbing images. Sorry I cannot help with that one. The men and woman looked very, very frightened in the way their eyes are flicking about, but basically well. One man had superficial cuts to his head but these could easily have been before capture. We were told that the only comment of any significance that was made by any of them was that one man said he was only acting on orders. They were certainly not playing the Iraqi's game and denouncing the coalition forces so we can only hope that their treatment is not so bad that they are being forced to say things. However well they are though, this is disgusting treatment and against the Geneva convention. I am praying for them. Wendy |
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Title: Re: INFO on IRAQ US prisoners Post by catlind on Mar 24th, 2003, 8:30am Thank you Riccardo. Charlie is right though, it's not so much censorship as it is respect for the families. If the US media were to show those pictures, and I was the family member waiting at home, I would be beyond upset. Until the families are notified there's a certain amount of legality involved. There is also the human side, the families deserve to have their private time to mourn, and not be exploited by the media coverage of their loved ones. JMHO Cat |
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Title: Re: INFO on IRAQ US prisoners Post by Woobie on Mar 24th, 2003, 8:48am from what I heard on the news allllll last night in the weeee hours.. (cuz I work nights, and listen to the news all night long). OK.. The way I understand it.. is they didn't want to show the soldiers in the USA until their families were notified. I don't know if this is the real reason.. but it makes sense to me. I know if I was a mother.. and I suddenly saw MY son on TV as a prisoner.. all beat up.. i would be UPSET to say the very least. They showed ONE soldier.. and said that they showed him because his mother had been notified about it. I also think that the news is TRYING to be a little "responsible". I imagine that they are worried about kids seeing it.. and quite frankly.. no one in the USA wants to see a US soldier being beaten or killed. I sure the hell dont want to watch it. So .. you know what? It's ok with me that they didn't show it. I also heard of the execution style murders of the soldiers, and some are ok and some were beaten. And, let me tell you, my blood boiled like it only has one other time in my life.. on Sept. 11. It makes me sick. I hope sadam and his thugs burn in hell! and that's all i have to say about that. :'( tina GOD BLESS THE USA!!!! |
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Title: Re: INFO on IRAQ US prisoners Post by cootie on Mar 24th, 2003, 9:41am I agree Woobie and I'm not of political nature or get involved in political stuff much cuz I don't have the full knowledge to say much. But could you imagine seein troops you KNOW or were family on the news in front of the camera beaten or had been beaten or hurt or pieces parts or killed and you didn't know about it.....wether you did or not it'd still be a shock that'd put a parent or friend over the edge. Out of respect for the families I'd rather that stuff not be so public. Not sayin the pics should never be view'd....just not rite now without family notification and permission totally....did that make sense. If not..sorry......just how I feel. Pam-Coots-politically-stupid |
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Title: Re: INFO on IRAQ US prisoners Post by fubar on Mar 24th, 2003, 9:57am Charlie, With all due respect to the families and friends of the POWs and dead, the reporting we get here in the US is watered down and censored to the point where it is incredibly difficult to form an educated opinion about world events. That's what I was saying. Not that we need to see pictures of dead people, but we see about 1% of the reporting that is seen in the UK and other countries. This, all in the name of protecting us from our own horrible experience of having an opinion that wasn't fed to us. Hey, it's just a theory. Personal experience has shown me the difference between the US news and the rest of the world. This country is not as 'free' as everybody likes to think. Freedom, to me, would include the freedom to choose how informed (factualy) I would like to be. -Fu |
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Title: Re: INFO on IRAQ US prisoners Post by catlind on Mar 24th, 2003, 10:08am Fu, That is precisely the reason I watch NewsWorld International as well as the US news channels. It gives a very broad amount of information and opinion in many countries around the world. Cat |
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Title: Re: INFO on IRAQ US prisoners Post by Bob P on Mar 24th, 2003, 10:21am The word censorship implies that the Government is controlling what is reported and what we can see or read. The news agencies are independant businesses. They can show whatever they want. In this case they chose to do what the Gov't requested, not mandated. Are these businesses biased by the political views of their BOD or owners? I wouldn't doubt it. |
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Title: Re: INFO on IRAQ US prisoners Post by SommelierCH on Mar 24th, 2003, 11:22am I would like to paraphrase an Arthur C. Clarke quote I read a long time ago—When information is available to all the people, totalitarian dictatorships will no longer be able to survive. The breakthrough began when VHS tapes were smuggled into communist countries, showing them what the world media thought about their plight: e.g. Tiananmen Square. The media control issue took a hit, when Fox started a fourth network, breaking the stranglehold the Big Three had, over what broadcast information was fed to us. Of course the news is slanted. Newspapers have always reflected the owners political leanings. But now, we have the web, and unfettered access to the world media. We are free. (Except for the web crawling, Gov’t. spider bots). David J. |
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Title: Re: INFO on IRAQ US prisoners Post by Slammy on Mar 24th, 2003, 11:31am In regards to the tape showing the POWs and the dead soldiers, this is a clear violation to the Geneva Convention. As such, we should not contribute by airing the tape. I'm not a big fan on over-mediaizing ( like that non-word? ) a war. War sucks, whether you are for it or against it. I'm as much of a right-wing hawk as the next person, but I don't feel it should be sensationalized. Just get it done and over with, and bring our troops home as soon as possible. Slammy 8) |
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Title: Re: INFO on IRAQ US prisoners Post by WendyHowe on Mar 24th, 2003, 12:52pm There is a good side to this. She sounds genuine but Mrs Hudson from El Paso says that her son Joseph is one of the men on the video which she saw on a foreign cable channel she subscribes to. She says at least she now knows he is alive. Maybe for her this is better than 'missing in action/presumed dead/taken prisoner'. For what it's worth, the British SAS men who were captured and beaten (and I'm afraid were also tortured because due to SAS training said absolutely nothing of any use to their captors) in the Gulf war were all released alive eventually. |
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Title: Re: INFO on IRAQ US prisoners Post by Bob P on Mar 24th, 2003, 1:14pm Televising POWs does make it hard for Iraq to kill them afterwards. We now know they are alive and in custody. If they turn up dead it will be hard to explain. I'm more pissed about the dead ones with the bullet holes in their foreheads. I'm betting we'll find that the POWs are so scared because they saw their friends shot, execution style. |
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Title: Re: INFO on IRAQ US prisoners Post by Charlie on Mar 24th, 2003, 2:37pm The General was mostly pissed about the televising of the POWs because it's against The Geneva Convention. I'm not sure how I feel about it actually. It may be better to show them at some time. Evidently the networks know that. I think they broadcast some with their faces blacked out. Not sure if that makes sense either. Kind of strange. I suppose it isn't easy not to. In any case, a few extra rounds to the captors.....about 20,000.......big messy ones Charlie |
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Title: Re: INFO on IRAQ US prisoners Post by ave on Mar 24th, 2003, 4:35pm Fubar, my bit: our (Dutch) press was just asked to HOLD IT until relatives and family could be told. The pictures where in the paper over here as of today. Will prolly have been on TV today but I didn't watch. I do agree with your comment on bad news service in the USA. It seems I know much more about your politics, from TV and papers, than many of your citizens do themselves. |
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Title: Re: INFO on IRAQ US prisoners Post by WendyHowe on Mar 24th, 2003, 6:55pm Update from British news again BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) - Iraqi state television on Monday showed two men said to have been the U.S. crew of an Apache helicopter forced down during heavy fighting in central Iraq. Gen. Tommy Franks, the U.S. war commander, confirmed that one helicopter did not return from its mission Sunday and that its two-man crew was missing. The Pentagon identified the missing men as Chief Warrant Officer Ronald D. Young Jr., 26, of Georgia, and Chief Warrant Officer David S. Williams, 30, of Florida. No hometowns were provided. If confirmed, the airmen would be the second set of POWs displayed by the Iraqis in as many days. On Sunday, the Arab satellite station Al-Jazeera carried Iraqi television footage of five U.S. soldiers who were captured near An Nasiriyah, a crossing point over the Euphrates River. Unlike the soldiers captured near An Nasiriyah, the men shown on Monday did not appear to be injured. The two shown in Iraqi TV footage Monday wore cream-colored pilots' overalls and did not speak to the camera but appeared confused. They turned their heads and looked in different directions while being filmed. One of the men sipped from a glass of water, looking wary but not cowed. The footage was shown after Iraq claimed it shot down two Apache helicopters and was holding the pilots. ``A small number of peasants shot down two Apaches,'' Information Minister Mohammed Saeed al-Sahhaf said. ``Perhaps we will show pictures of the pilots.'' Franks denied that a second chopper had been lost, or that any craft had been shot down by farmers. Iraqi state television showed pictures of one Apache helicopter in a grassy field. Men in Arab headdresses holding Kalashnikovs automatic rifles danced around the aircraft. Sahhaf said the POWs would be treated according to the Geneva Conventions. He rejected accusations that Iraq had violated such accords by allowing Iraqi television to film them and ask questions. |
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Title: Re: INFO on IRAQ US prisoners Post by Charlie on Mar 24th, 2003, 8:15pm Thanks Wendy. Fortunately, we've seen them now. I watch BBC world news here and I think they were shown on MSNBC or another cable station. I'm not sure what the big networks did. A sad and bloody day for all. Charlie |
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Title: Re: INFO on IRAQ US prisoners Post by EK on Mar 24th, 2003, 8:40pm Please dont believe the media one side or the other! |
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Title: Re: INFO on IRAQ US prisoners Post by WendyHowe on Mar 24th, 2003, 9:04pm What exactly are we not supposed to believe? Personally I find the UK coverage factual and certainly attempting to be objective, without resorting to jingoistic rhetoric. How else do you suggest we get our information, telepathy? |
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Title: Re: INFO on IRAQ US prisoners Post by norma on Mar 24th, 2003, 9:08pm hi guys, i havent been reading much on the board or replying sorry, right now headaches are gone, i am keeping my fingers crossed that all of you do better each and every day. i think they dont show pics of soldiers til families are notified, i have been watching tv, like everyone else, it saddens me that we lose many people during war, but saddam is one sick mother f------! i say nuke the whole damn country, if they are going to play hard ball, after all, we lost many, many people in 9/11, i came close to losing 2 nephews and i know it was a terrifiying day, so i can imagine what military families go through, god bless you all and may pain free and peace come to all of you |
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Title: Re: INFO on IRAQ US prisoners Post by WendyHowe on Mar 24th, 2003, 9:16pm Just my view Norma (and I am definitively not anti-war or anti-American) I understand your motives, and I agree with the beliefs behind them, but comments like 'nuke the whole country' really don't do your country's image any favours. If you have seen the images of the children who have been fatally wounded in the bombings in Baghdad today, and remember the awful images of the people after Hiroshima, I don't think you would say this. |
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Title: Re: INFO on IRAQ US prisoners Post by norma on Mar 24th, 2003, 9:29pm ok maybe not nuke them, but i tell you what, if one of those iraqi nuts hurt one of my kids, i would not think twice as the saying goes do onto others as you would have done unto you. so maybe just try to get the evil ones, but hard to do when they are pretending to be civilians, and if saddam has them using people as human shields then tell me where is the logic there? i said he is a coward and for all the things he has done to people in his own country and family, then he should get the same treatment. i am sure there are several people i know in the military through school, and i dont want harm to come to anyone of them, but at the same time, saddam has to be stopped. there will always be pro life this and anti life this people no matter what the topic, and everyone is entitled to their opinion, but would you want him to live in your state? are we ever going to get him? what about bin laden he is still at large, and therefore it makes me worry about us here in the states, and all the other countries, get those nuts and let everyone be entitled to peace and happiness not terrorists nuts |
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Title: Re: INFO on IRAQ US prisoners Post by WendyHowe on Mar 24th, 2003, 9:33pm Assassination was always the best option, and would have solved almost everything I think, but we have been trying (unofficially of course) to assassinate Saddam for years and have failed. I'm pretty sure the USA has as well, and they have certainly done their damndest to kill Bin Laden. We all failed. That's why we have ended up here with innocent people dying. |
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Title: Re: INFO on IRAQ US prisoners Post by cootie on Mar 24th, 2003, 9:54pm We nuke them....sumone else nukes us....sumone else nukes sumone else.....then who ever is left nukes sumone else that's left fearin they'll nuke them first if they don't ....and so on and so on and so on......NOT a good idea ta go that route. One bad turn can cause anuther and so on and so on and so on. Pam-Coots-not-a-nuke'r |
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Title: Re: INFO on IRAQ US prisoners Post by amber on Mar 24th, 2003, 9:54pm I haven't been responding to many of the war postings here but I wanted to mention something re: the amount of info flowing into the states. According to some sources in Canada (but then again who can you believe right?) part of the reason the news is different pretty much EVERWHERE you look is so that when hussein and his "dudes" do intel. they won't have the correct information. Sort of a surprise and conquer thing. They look to see what the americans are sending home to their homeland about the war, etc. Having said that, for the sake of the families who were concerned for their loved ones, I think out of politeness to them, I think they were waiting to inform them personally re: the POW situation. Then again, I may not be up to snuff on this POW deal anymore. I've been trying to stay away from the TV. Amber |
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