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Title: Can't Speak - Can't Think Post by das on Feb 19th, 2003, 8:46am When I am in the process of getting hit and during an attack... I sometimes have trouble speaking. My mouth just doesn't react and I also feel quite dazed and unable to think clearly. This usually happens during the initial stages of the attack. Once it is in full swing, I'm in too much pain to know if I can speak or think anyway. Anyone else experience these types of side effects? BTW, I do not take any meds. |
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Title: Re: Can't Speak - Can't Think Post by echo on Feb 19th, 2003, 8:57am I know when I'm getting hit bad I don't want to speak, and can't think of anything other than my eye. When the beast is starting to pitch tent I cannot keep on task, my mind is continually searching for the signs that I'm going to get blasted. |
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Title: Re: Can't Speak - Can't Think Post by Roxy on Feb 19th, 2003, 10:03am Speaking.....for me....is not an option. Neither is someone trying to talk to me. I want privacy. At the onset of an attack, my mouth does work...but, it usually only mutters nice, evocative curse words. When it is in full swing....no way, no how. I have seen my family standing in front of me with their lips moving....but, something just shorts out in my brain. They would have better luck going outside and talking to the fence post. Tracey |
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Title: Re: Can't Speak - Can't Think Post by oringkid on Feb 19th, 2003, 11:48am I can speak and think as it ramps up, but at peak I don't speak...I rock, groan and try to concentrate on breathing and holding my ice on the worst pain (which for me tends to move around from eye to top left side of head to temple to jaw to neck etc.) and watching, looking for that tiny little lessening of pain...trying to grab onto that and ride it out of the attack. I also do not take meds. Sherry |
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Title: Re: Can't Speak - Can't Think Post by jonny on Feb 19th, 2003, 6:48pm You all just need more practice. Why me, why me why me Go away, go away, go away Please take it away, please take it away I scream very well with a kip 10, begging for my life!!!! I did not include the swears because im a church going man and you good people should not be subject to them in this fourm or any other. Just dont show up at my house when its rock'in ;D ...........................................jonny |
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Title: Re: Can't Speak - Can't Think Post by thsa/simon on Feb 19th, 2003, 6:54pm No, I don't have any problems talking, (or rather yelling through a grimace, whatever that is called). I remember distinctly rocking in bed banging my head into the wall saying, 'YOU WANNA DANCE??? OK, LET'S DANCE' simon |
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Title: Re: Can't Speak - Can't Think Post by suzy617 on Feb 19th, 2003, 6:54pm on 02/19/03 at 18:48:39, jonny wrote:
OMG! Alright mister, give it up....what did you do with Jonny, where'd you put him. IMPOSTER, ALERT, IMPOSTER! LMAO :-* suzy |
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Title: Re: Can't Speak - Can't Think Post by jonny on Feb 19th, 2003, 7:00pm on 02/19/03 at 18:54:18, suzy617 wrote:
If I show you the Mule will you believe its me, SuzyQ? ..........................jonny ;D |
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Title: Re: Can't Speak - Can't Think Post by suzy617 on Feb 19th, 2003, 7:05pm Oh you mean the squirty muledog? Oh yea, that was a different thread, LOL. The Mule is in a honky mood tonight. ;D suzy |
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Title: Re: Can't Speak - Can't Think Post by jonny on Feb 19th, 2003, 7:11pm on 02/19/03 at 19:05:33, suzy617 wrote:
Tonight?? Try 24/7 Getting sick of holding it in, I know just how far I can go with posting my honkiness.....LOL ;D ;D ............................jonny :D |
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Title: Re: Can't Speak - Can't Think Post by Tom on Feb 19th, 2003, 7:46pm Difficulty with the speech is a known manifestation of a migraine aura. From: http://www.upstate.edu/neurology/haas/hpmidx.htm : ...speech disturbances (dysphasia) are not rare (in auras). ----------- Well, there is the (probably) rather rare syndrome called "cluster-migraine" in which symptoms of CH and migraine are present simultaneously during attacks. An aura occurs when brain vessels are extremely constricted . It may be potentially dangerous to take triptans or ergotamine during an aura, a stroke could result. Look at www.sbce.med.br/resumo~2.doc : Cluster-migraine syndrome When important elements of migraine occur in patients with cluster headache the term cluster- migraine syndrome is appropriate. (If the symptoms are predominantly migraine with important elements of cluster headache the term migraine-cluster syndrome might be used). Rarely symptoms of the two conditions blend in such a way that neither cluster headache nor migraine is predominant. In early decades a sharp distinction was not made between what is now called cluster headache and migraine, hence the former term “migrainous neuralgia” for conditions we now call cluster headache. There is considerable overlap in the quality and site of pain in patients with cluster headache and migraine. A boring pain is more typical of cluster headache and throbbing more typical of migraine; an orbital site is typical of cluster headache whereas temporal area predominance is common in migraine. But these symptoms may be interchanged without altering the diagnostic criteria. Many features, however, differentiate cluster headache from migraine. Most typical of course, is the random occurrence of migraine and the daily occurrence for a series or cluster of weeks or months of episodic cluster headache. Cluster headache rarely lasts for more than 3 hours, migraine rarely lasts for less than 4 hours. Premonitory and aura symptoms may occur in patients who have migraine, but not in those with cluster headache. At least one associated autonomic feature ipsilateral (conjunctival injection, lacrimation, nasal congestion, rhinorrhea, ptosis and miosis) is present during attack of cluster headache but not with migraine. On the other hand nausea, vomiting, phonophobia are characteristic of migraine but not of cluster headache. Cluster headache seems to be somewhat ameliorated by activity in the erect position while patients with migraine prefer to lie down and rest in a quiet dark room. Alcoholic beverages may trigger both attacks but migraine is aggravated by menstruation, not so in patients with cluster headache. There is a striking male predominance in patients with cluster headache and a family history of such headache is very rare; women experience migraine much more commonly than men and family history is similarly very common. Solomon et al arbitrarily used the rubric migraine-cluster headache syndrome (or cluster headache-migraine syndrome) if symptoms of one were predominant but there were also four or five features of the other. (9) Lesser features might be a patient with cluster headache who has nausea, vomiting, photophobia or phonophobia; or a patient with migraine who has redness and tearing of the eye and nasal congestion. Criteria for the diagnosis of cluster-migraine syndrome are not precise. There need not be four or five features of migraine in a patient with predominant features of cluster headache in order to make the diagnosis of cluster-migraine syndrome; the numbers four or five are arbitrary. If one important feature and one or two lesser features of migraine were to occur in a patient with all other features of cluster headache the diagnosis of cluster-migraine would be appropriate. For example if important features of migraine, such as an aura, were to occur with one or two lesser features of migraine in a patient who otherwise fulfulled the criteria of cluster headache the term cluster-migraine would be appropriate. Similarly if a patient fulfilled the criteria for migraine but attacks occurred daily for weeks or months at a time and one or two lesser features of cluster headache also occurred, the term migraine-cluster headache would be appropriate. These curious intermingling of symptoms have rarely been reported. Occasional clustering of attacks of migraine recurring daily for days or weeks and then freedom from headache for a long period of time was noted by Graham (10) and again by Sacks (11). The term cyclical migraine was sometimes used. Duvoisin, (12) Graham, (10) Lance and Anthony (13) reported patients with cluster headache who experienced brief episodes of scintillating scotomata preceding the attack. Recognition of the cluster-migraine syndrome or migraine-cluster syndrome may have therapeutic implications. Patiensts with migraine-cluster syndrome may respond to oxygen for the acute attack and lithium as a prophylactic agent; these therapies are usually ineffective in patients with migraine. Similarly beta adrenergic blocking medication, useful for migraine but not for cluster headache, may be effective in patients with cluster-migrane syndrome. ---------------- I recommend to discuss the a.m. symptom with a neurologist. Thomas |
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Title: Re: Can't Speak - Can't Think Post by jonny on Feb 19th, 2003, 7:53pm on 02/19/03 at 19:46:33, Tom wrote:
.......................jonny non-Meegrainer ;D |
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Title: Re: Can't Speak - Can't Think Post by das on Feb 20th, 2003, 10:30am So Tom, if I understand this correctly... The fact that I get phono and photophobia with all my CHs plus some nausea and pain that has more recently spread accross the entire front of my head (not in my other eye though) that I may be of the even rarer breed of cluster-migraines??? I was under the impression that photophobia was a normal symptom during a CH. Anyone else experience photo or phonophobia and/or slight nausea during a bad attack? Am I lucky or what? What... |
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Title: Re: Can't Speak - Can't Think Post by oringkid on Feb 20th, 2003, 10:51am I'm about as classic ech as it get and I have no photo or phono phobia. no nausea. no pain on the other side of head at all. (almost like there is a firewall running down the middle of my head.) Certainly sounds like you have a lot of migraine symptoms mixed in there. Sherry |
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Title: Re: Can't Speak - Can't Think Post by hdbngr on Feb 20th, 2003, 11:00am I'm confused. I had heard the "cluster migraine" diagnosis had been dismissed, there is no such animal? Unlike "classic" CH sufferers, I get nauseous and throw up when the pain is above a 6, and I also have difficulty carrying on conversations. I think there is overlap, and this will always serve to confuse the issue and cause unnecessary treatment delays. Anyone have additional insight into the cluster migraine diagnosis? Ever received it? It was popular in the late 90's. |
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Title: Re: Can't Speak - Can't Think Post by das on Feb 20th, 2003, 11:12am My neuro told me you can suffer from both, so I would imagine that you could also see some overlapping of symptoms. Aside from CHs, I also get regular headaches and the occasional migraine. I'm like a walking headache factory. Woooohooooo ! |
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Title: Re: Can't Speak - Can't Think Post by hdbngr on Feb 20th, 2003, 11:42am Did he say anything about there being a recognized diagnosis of "cluster migraines" for individuals who suffer with both maladies? Did they diagnose you with both, or the one that is most prevalent, worse (CH)? Sorry to hear that, cluster migraine and regular head pain all mixed together must be awful. Kind of like being a connoseiur of headaches. Do you ever have two or three types going at once, or is it difficult to distinguish? |
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Title: Re: Can't Speak - Can't Think Post by das on Feb 20th, 2003, 12:20pm Anything is possible. I am pretty sure I get a mixed bag with CH being the predominant force. Whether or not I get CH, migraine and anything else as well would be hard to say. At that point it all amounts to serious pain and discomfort. I have been getting headaches since I was 6 or 7 years old. CHs only started at 20, but as you can see I have a long history or noggin pain. |
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Title: Re: Can't Speak - Can't Think Post by Tom on Feb 20th, 2003, 12:52pm Well, CH apparently can be mixed with almost all other types of headaches and consequently the respective attacks, too. In my opinion this constatation is not of a pure academic interest - it should also call forth therapeutic consequences. Specially in the case of cluster-migraines a beta- blocker therapy, added to a specific CH therapy, could alleviate pain attacks eliminating the migraine component, for example (of cause, in this case verapamil should not be taken). And don'n forget the Cluster Tic Syndrome = CH + Trigeminal Neuralgia: Here carbamazepin, that usually doesn't work in CH, could mitigate the mixed pain attacks eliminating the TN component. And so on... Thomas |
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Title: Re: Can't Speak - Can't Think Post by ami on Feb 20th, 2003, 4:26pm Had to chime in.. Only b/c I just got back from my neurologist and I have been diagnosed with Chronic Migraine-Cluster Headaches Syndrome. I was told that I have cluster headaches -- but with many symptoms -- including aura and false speech associated with migraines - nausea, vomiting, intense pounding pain, and i can lay down and sleep at times. other times i cannot. At any rate, they are indeed worried that I may be having small strokes. I'm on Topamax now and Maxalt and Percocet. I'm not feeling much better yet at all -- but taking it one day at a time. But to echo your sentiments. Yes -- I cannot make a complete sentence and often stutter and look dazed and feel confused. I was told that this was a symptom of the migraine portion of what I'm experiencing. ??? |
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Title: Re: Can't Speak - Can't Think Post by oringkid on Feb 20th, 2003, 4:55pm Ami, just out of curiosity, (and you may have told everyone this already but I have been away and catching up on the board is taking ALOT of time ;D) What part of your headaches acts like clusters? Sherry |
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Title: Re: Can't Speak - Can't Think Post by tanner on Feb 20th, 2003, 10:09pm when i was first diagnosed by doc johnson @ mayo it was called cluster?migrane varient. this diagnoses was later seconded by saper @ mich headache clinic and dr. moore @ rush st. lukes, chicago, but i had migraines when i was much younger and they were nothing like the new and improved version. the only similarity being what they described as an aura (i smell blood) before an attack but after a year or so in the cycle that stops because i never go pain free. i also am rarely awakened from sleep because my ha's usually start early in the day after my most recent sleep. i don't think i really sleep at all in the way that i remember it used to be, i think i just pass out. as kid said about the firewall thing i too feel as if my head/brain has been split in two with pain only on my left side and a real difficulty with focusing . i can speak but it's often in riddles (says linda) and i can't write or spell without great difficulty... as this post probably illustrates........ don't know!! don't like!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Title: Re: Can't Speak - Can't Think Post by ami on Feb 21st, 2003, 8:43am Sherry -- hey it's ami. Just responding. I've had these now for almost three years. I have been diagnosed so many times with migraine, complicated migraine, migraine-tension, you name it...but this last time -- Dr. Gipson said I was suffering from Cluster-Migraines... The cluster effects would be the right eye concentration -- droopiness, severe pain at times where I cannot think or talk or do anything but freak in the pain of the moment. But -- the cycles occur in more like migraine timelines-- they last longer than four hours usually -- they are always constant in a throbbing low sort of way-- and get very insane at times.. and stay that way for hours on end. I do have auras and get very disoriented -but no other traditional migraine triggers. I also get nausea and vomit on occasion. I don't know if that answers any of your questions. I'm quite new to all of this. Just trying to get answers. I'm currently on Topamax and Maxalt -- and seeing where that takes me for now. Had another bad episode last night. Just can't get away from it. |
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Title: Re: Can't Speak - Can't Think Post by ami on Feb 21st, 2003, 8:51am Tanner: What you describe sounds exactly like what I have -- except it's my whole head -- it can switch from side to side -- usually right -- but the damn thing moves! Mine always start early in the morning after my most recent sleep and stay with me the whole day -- they are worst at around 3 in the afternoon and 10 at night and sleeping is just a mission of drugs and whatever else i can do to make myself pass out... like you said. I too was told I have migraine clusters. just wondering what you take? I am worried about having small strokes or seizures while on this medication. I've been told that this could happen. I feel more and more strange every day -- and just not sure what's happening to me. Is this normal on these types of meds? I'm on Topamax now..building up to 90mg/day.. and maxalt. percocet for pain now and then. that's about it. -ami |
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Title: Re: Can't Speak - Can't Think Post by das on Feb 21st, 2003, 8:56am My CH symptoms: right eye pain, redness and tearing, nasal congestion and tearing, pain in the jaw, nose, and back of neck, unbelievable pressure in my eye which at times feels like it will just burst... can't sit still.... Migraine symptoms: dazed, photo and phonophobia. have trouble speaking, slight nausea when attack is really bad, attacks sometimes linger, though with relatively minimal pain, an entire day..pain across my forehead |
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Title: Re: Can't Speak - Can't Think Post by tanner on Feb 21st, 2003, 2:12pm ami, mine are always left side and never move . the only thing that changes is the time of day or night that they start to moveup from a heavy shadow (kip3) and how many times the little fucker with the ice pic will demand his way out. today for instance i finally went unconcious at around 5:00 am and was up again at 7: but nothing over a kip 3 so far until just a minute ago which is why i'm trying to rush thru this post! i don't take anything for pain except o2 and h2o, but there are other medical conditions that dictate that. if i go as many as 36 hrs. with no sleep i will take ambien to loop me out but that is almost asking to be awakend in a bad way! good luck and i will message you later when my brain comes back..... tim |
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Title: Re: Can't Speak - Can't Think Post by Tom on Feb 21st, 2003, 6:18pm das, you gave an excellent description of the symptoms of both CH and migraines. For me, there is one puzzle: Do your aura symptoms occur during a CH attack (which would be very unlogical) or strictly separated from it ? Thomas |
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Title: Re: Can't Speak - Can't Think Post by das on Feb 23rd, 2003, 9:04am Tom, All the symptoms I mentioned happen at the same time. As for the aura, I don't think I get that. Unless I don't understand correctly, I thought aura was seeing lights or spots before an attack. Light is painful for me during a CH, but I don't get any kind of aura effect. |
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Title: Re: Can't Speak - Can't Think Post by Tom on Feb 23rd, 2003, 10:54am hi das, photo and phonophobia, trouble with the speech, seeing lights and spots, and even more severe neurological phenomenons/deficits - all of them are signs/symptoms of a migraines' aura. Thomas |
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Title: Re: Can't Speak - Can't Think Post by das on Feb 24th, 2003, 6:15pm great. now I can tell people I have cluster-migraines. as if they don't get it enough when I mention CH. oh Joy... |
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Title: Re: Can't Speak - Can't Think Post by Karla on Feb 24th, 2003, 7:58pm I have had four neuros tell me I have ch. However, I had one that told me I had cluster migraines. I asked what he meant by that. He said I was having migraines that occur in clusters or groups. I told him I get migraines and clusters. I know the difference between the two and described them both to him. The pain is very different. He just looked at me with a blank stare and said exactly. Clusters are migraines and that is what you have just described. He was totaly ignorant. However, he was willing to perscribe me what ever I wanted so we agreed to disagree on the diagnosis and worked together to find something that would stop the ha. Since I had access to ch.com I knew what meds to ask to try and everything worked out fine. Some drs just don't have a clue what they are talking about. |
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