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        New Message Board Archives >> 2003 Posts >> Mental Illness and Sleep Cycles
        
(Message started by: HypnoticFreddy on Feb 14^th, 2003, 6:19pm)

Title: Mental Illness and Sleep Cycles
Post by HypnoticFreddy on Feb 14^th, 2003, 6:19pm

To cluster sufferrers,

I have a few questions or comments I'd like to share.
1) Is there a correlation between depression (I mean real severe clinical depression) and clusterheadaches? Please don't argue with me about depression. I aint talking about "Ooooh I feel sad, etc." I am talking about early morning awakenings, anxiety, ruminations beyond belief, OCD, loss of tremendous weight, no pooping, etc.
and 2) If a sudden change in sleep patterns can trigger CHs. I have been a bit hyper lately.
I have recently had a few CHs and I believe they are due to a new sleep pattern ( I am awakeining at 5:30 AM) and I have not done this before. I have found this to be a trigger and was wondering if any other sufferrers have experienced this.
I am currently taking Topamax for the CHs and I use Imitrex injections (which work real well) for the pain.

Any comments would be appreciated. Thanks.

-Scott

Title: Re: Mental Illness and Sleep Cycles
Post by jonny on Feb 14^th, 2003, 6:23pm

1) No

2) Talk to Bob G, hes been working different shifts every week for 20 years I think.

................................jonny

Title: Re: Mental Illness and Sleep Cycles
Post by 2late on Feb 14^th, 2003, 6:37pm

personally no, never had anxiety/depression, & never had new sleep patterns, my only trigger is alcohol >:( good luck to ya'! ..........2late

Title: Re: Mental Illness and Sleep Cycles
Post by Charlie on Feb 14^th, 2003, 6:46pm

Sorry that you're getting hit.

If you've been on Topamax for awhile, it wouldn't surprise me that this is the souce of your depression and other stressful things. I have nothing approaching the kind of depression you describe, but I did when taking Topamax for several weeks for epilepsy. It worked wonderfully, but I had to stop. It made me unsure of myself, a bit forgetful, and my ears rang LOUDLY all the time. I lost a little weight too. I never felt hungry when taking this thing. Too bad, as I never used a more effective drug. By the way, if you get off this thing, your doctor should taper you off.

From the posts here, CH is harder on sleep than the other way around. I'd look into Topamax as the source of your trouble. Good luck.

Charlie

Title: Re: Mental Illness and Sleep Cycles
Post by kim on Feb 14^th, 2003, 6:54pm

There have been many discussions involving depression and a possible link to clusters. You can find tons of info at the OUCH site and here (archives). Read up on the 5HT, too.

With regard to sleep patterns, pay close attention. If you NORMALLY sleep well, and then experience an interrupted sleep pattern, start taking notes immediately.

Footnote* I am episodic for 25 years. I usually sleep like a dead dog. I just noticed two nights ago restless sleep and clogged "sinus" feeling on RIGHT side, and had a muscular "ache" in my Right shoulder(it did NOT PEAK).....Kept getting up, blahblahblah, ---------anyway--------Last year I found this site at almost EXACTLY this time (cycle began). I made mental note and am paying attention ---NOW. Normally my cycles go every OTHER year. However, i am alerted by some symptoms I would normally overlook.

PFDAN and well wishes.****kim

Title: Re: Mental Illness and Sleep Cycles
Post by ave on Feb 14^th, 2003, 7:06pm

Yes, I have always had sleep patterns that were not absolutely normal.

Never had clusters though, those times.

I feel that deviating sleep patterns are more of a diagnostic sign than a cause.

Title: Re: Mental Illness and Sleep Cycles
Post by Linda_Howell on Feb 14^th, 2003, 8:20pm

so what are you asking?

are we depressed cause we get clusters?

You bet!

Are we gonna stick a knife or gun in our throat?

No way............LindaH

Title: Re: Mental Illness and Sleep Cycles
Post by Ann on Feb 15^th, 2003, 10:00am

Hi and sorry you are getting hit! To answer your questions....

#1- Last year at exactly this time I was on leave from work with a burnout/depression diagnosis from my doc. Although Clusters were a part of the problem, they were not the major cause. I tend to lean towards what Charlie said. It might be your meds. Ask your doc about the side effects and the possibility of it causing your depression. I've heard it said a lot here that topomax causes this type of reaction.

#2- Recently, I've noticed that if I don't get a full night's sleep, I will get hit. I discovered this while on vacation and the only 2 nights that I didn't sleep well, I ended up getting hit. Even if I took my amerge before bedtime. But that is just me. You'll find we all react differently. I can't have a beer while in cycle, nor eat chocolate, but I can drink coffee...it's all very strange! Others can...it's up to you to determine what your triggers are.

Good luck.
hugs
Ann

Title: Re: Mental Illness and Sleep Cycles
Post by cootie on Feb 15^th, 2003, 10:05am

Hi Scott.....I'm not sure if any a this is of any help to ya but ya know bi-polar (manic depression) deals will cause alot of people ta go thru changes in sleep and energy patterns and with deep depression......you'll have a few weeks or so bein hyper 'n gettin stuff done or turn major stressy or worry and get major anxious and overamp of everythin....then 'wham'....yer tired 'n very deep depression can hit hard .....kinda have a few weeks on 'n few weeks off or patterns can run longer(cycles...everthin seems ta have cycles !!)... but it can vary with degrees. But the feelings are REAL.....really throws ya fer a loop.....the mood change can hit ya like a rock....and all that goes with it. Good luck to ya.......Pam...the honker

Title: Re: Mental Illness and Sleep Cycles
Post by HypnoticFreddy on Feb 15^th, 2003, 1:55pm

Thanks everyone for your insight. My psychiatrist says I am a depressive. In my "normal" state though I am a bit hyper. He calls it hpermania. It isnt like I cycle betweeen depression and mania within weeks like a more typical manic depressive. I know there are many types of cycling.

My depression and CHs did not coincide at all. During my 3 months of severe depression I never once got a CH. But this summer, when I was "normal", I had a 4 month bout with CH's. I am also starting to get them again, but I believe it is due to this shift in sleep patterns I am keeping.

To be depressed or sad because of CHs is normal, and should occur. They are outragiously painful. But my depression, or my illness did not coincide with CHs. I just wondered if people who have depression or manic depression have CH's. Not necessarily at the same time.

I hope my point is understood.

Cheers to all

-Scott

Title: Re: Mental Illness and Sleep Cycles
Post by BobG on Feb 15^th, 2003, 3:47pm

I work a rotating shift, changing each week. I have to pay close attention to my sleep pattern/habits or I end up with shadows and maybe some individual attacks.

Most people work the dayshift 8am to 4pm (or close to that. I'm being very general here). They will be up about an hour before having to be at work and will go to bed about 5 hours after getting off work. I try to maintain a sleep schedule like that on all of my shifts whether it be 8am-4pm, 4pm-midnight or midnight to 8am. The first change after a day off is the most important. If I get to doing something and don't start the sleep schedule on that first day then I'm usually screwed up for 5 or 6 days.

It's a damned if you do and damned if you don't situation. If you sleep you get a headache. If you stay awake for fear of sleeping and getting a headache you get over-tired and get a headache. Or you're over-tired you fall asleep and get a headache.

And Charlie may be correct about the meds.

Note to jonny.......it's 35+ years that i've been doing this.

Title: Re: Mental Illness and Sleep Cycles
Post by StanTheMan on Feb 15^th, 2003, 3:56pm

Scott,

Sorry to hear of your battle with clinical depression and CH's. (Been there on both counts!)

No, I don't think there's a correlation between the two.

However, think there *might* be a correlation between CH's and chronic sleep disturbance, at least for SOME sufferers, since CH's have a great deal to do with the hypothalamous (sp?) which (among other things) affects (or regulates?) the body clock (seratonin levels, etc).

There are many on this board that reported that they have no problems with sleep (except when the beast pays a visit). Others (like myself) have a hard time with sleep, even when the beast is leaving them alone.

My point here is that if you're one of those people who struggle with getting sleep, the sleep deprevation can contribute to depression.

Extending my prayers and best wishes to you Scott.
I firmly believe that clinical depression is something that has to be fought on all fronts: physical,
mental/emotional, and spiritual. Hope you have some good support to help you in your battle.

StanTheMan

Title: Re: Mental Illness and Sleep Cycles
Post by Lori on Feb 15^th, 2003, 8:43pm

I've dealt with major depression episodes and have CH but can't say they are related in any way. I'm sure there are some that have clusters but are not clinically depressed. Yes, when in cycle i think we ALL get depressed, but I mean depression problems without CH, I doubt all CH sufferers are. But who knows? Has every CHer been asked if the suffer from depression (out of CH cycle)

Title: Re: Mental Illness and Sleep Cycles
Post by Bob_Johnson on Feb 16^th, 2003, 10:04am

Your second message--mention of hypomania--is helpful. Any degree of mania can disrupt sleep cycles since they are "fragile" even the absence of mental disorders. But, to answer your question: disorders like depression and narcissistic disorders often upset sleep patterns.

There have been interesting studies linking CH and sleep apnea--but inconclusive. Studies of the relationship between CH and emotional disorders and certain personality disorders have also been inconclusive.

I'd be looking at the impact of the meds you are using are the probably problem.

Title: Re: Mental Illness and Sleep Cycles
Post by oringkid on Feb 18^th, 2003, 12:04pm

I have had true clinical depression which was cured with Wellbutrin. It did not coincide with my CH.

I have ALWAYS had trouble going to sleep (except when drinking LOL) But not too much trouble with waking (except to pee LOL).

I agree about checking into the meds as a possible cause of the depression. Have read on this board of many who have used the Topomax that experienced horrible depression.

Sherry