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        New Message Board Archives >> 2002 Posts >> Critical positions
        
(Message started by: Mark C on Nov 16^th, 2002, 11:56pm)

Title: Critical positions
Post by Mark C on Nov 16^th, 2002, 11:56pm

After reading quote a few posts about how to handle employers and employees with CH some thoughts have entered my mind.
My job currently is non-critical in the way that if I am incapitated from CH no ones life is in danger. There was a time when I was an OTR (long haul) truck driver. Now would you want a driver of an 80,000 truck on the same road as you while suffering a CH attack? Well there have been times when I have been hit driving and by the time I can find a place to pull off the road I was blinded by pain. My ability to operate the truck was severely compromised.
Should CH be an excluding factor in critical positions as many other diseases are? Airline pilots, air traffic controllers, nuclear power plant operators, train engineers, surgeons, law enforcement, any one who's job performance may save or lose life. Should chronics be allowed to drive......should episodics be grounded while in cycle? Is this something we should police ourselves or should we depend on the DOT and the FAA to screen and monitor Clusterheads in critical positions. Could a Clusterhead be held liable if something bad happened during their watch because they were under attack themselves?
This seems on the surface to one hell of a can of worms.
When I was driving I had to take a Federally required DOT physical yearly. A doctor had to sign off on my health card so I could qualify to drive. Every year.
I don't know about you, but I don't want me driving a truck or even a car during an attack, I am not able.
Thoughts??
Mark

http://animatedgif.net/vehicles/truck_e0.gif

Title: Re: Critical positions
Post by LTBullitt on Nov 17^th, 2002, 1:19am

Well in Canada we take people with the lowest overall IQ’s and arm them with guns and other weapons so I don’t see a problem.

Title: Re: Critical positions
Post by Mr.Happy on Nov 17^th, 2002, 1:44am

Mark,

You are a veritable voice of reason in our little backwater compost pile of pain and suffering. How can this be?????????

You are entirely correct in your assesment of our inability to function at the most modest of levels, let alone dealing with the physical realm of _Inertia_. Right about now, I'm having enough trouble navigating the mouse and keyboard. Handing me the keys to a 747 would not be in the best interests of humanity, let alone a MoPed on a dirt trail.

With all due respect to every/anyone here......... there is no way to justify one's functionality while "Under Attack." It's definitely time to pull things to a stop and *Smoke `em if you got `em*. My greatest fear is NOT that I'll hit that tree, drive over the cliff of ultimate freedom, or otherwise turn myself into the Dust of the Ages..........but that I'll cause harm to another human being or family because of my blind stupidity and determination to prove that "I Could Do It". Bad choice.

I spent the last 5 hours trying to INDUCE a visit from your friend and mine..........granted, it was a chore....... but the Mrs. came out to the kitchen around 1 AM when she heard the groan and said "Sooooo, you did it. Hurt much?" Gawd, I love that female, even if she is a woman.

One 50 mg pill and one nose hit of the Nectar of the Gods later (elapsed time - 12 min, 30 sec), I was back to the chart/folder writing down the time, severity, meds, and duration in the Writ of Common Wisdom..........a log I keep of daily "Head" activities which I present to the Dr de Jour when I contribute to his kids college fund or malpractice insurance, aka: Office Visit. Humbles the best of them. Heh.

Back on topic......were I to be out in public and stopped by the local Constabulary, I would be, as they say in the vernacular..........FUCKED. My ticket would be jerked, & I'd be spending the night in a cell with my new wife, Buck. Rightfully so.

It's no can of worms you opened, Mark......just a waft of common sense. Thanks, mate! BTW.....your animatied gif says it all.

Would love to continue this rant........but I seem to be suffering from a few "Side Effects" from the, what I can only describe as, Heroic Dose of Meds. Time to crash and burn......after all......we get to do this all over again tomorrow. You gotta love it. No butts about it......
http://drfeller.com/clustology/butts2.gif

G'night all...........

Title: Re: Critical positions
Post by David Shea on Nov 17^th, 2002, 4:57am

HI Mark,Great topic, I do have some thoughts on this.
You may have read my topic entilied "Employer". If not it is on the same issue basicly.

While I would not want A driver of an 80,000lb Truck
on the road with me when he suffered A CH attack
I would not what him on the road with me when he
suffered A heart attack, Stroke Attack, Aneurysm burst in the brain. or fall asleep for that matter.
Trouble is any of the five listed could happen and likely
ruin A lot of folks day.. A truck driver is not tested for
any of these events happening in his yearly physcial.

I operated boats of three thousand gross tons on international waters. The International Maritine org.
for the saftey of life at Sea, formed by the united nations
have put safe guards in place for this purpose. If someone on watch comes incapacitate ( spell ) Due to
Heart attack. Stroke, Black out, and I guess we can now add CLUSTERHEADACHE ATTACK And Migrane HA There
is someone there at all times capable of releving him.
We have A yearly physcial as well, While we are not tested by way of MRI or EKG YEARLY we are giveing
A stress test.

Airplane pilots, Air traffic controllers, Surgeons, SOME lAW ENFORCEMENT postions, Have safe guards in place
should someone become incapacitate due to Attacks
and illness or injury.

Well Marc I do agree with you and Mr. Happy ( You are
the best Mr.Happy) This is A topic to give caution to.
And we need to think What if. As you know there are Lots of middle age and above drivers out there, with
high blood pressure, colesteral, stress, and battleing the beast that may renderd
them incapeable of doing there job at any moment in time. What say you, should we take there ticket. Or let
him get to the side of the road and take the FMLA leave while in cycle. Well, I wish we had A say in this, But, others will decide our fate for us should this enter ones
livelyhood..
PFDAN
David

Title: Re: Critical positions
Post by Charlie on Nov 17^th, 2002, 6:21am

In emergencies, Ch will usually get put on hold because of self preservation. This has been discussed a couple of times here. While it doesn't work with ordinary driving it's something to remember. Still, has anyone here had a real close call because of Ch? I haven't seen that here. I'm 56 and should have been driving for the last 40 years. I never had a license. However, CH isn't epilepsy.

Trade ya.

Charlie

Title: Re: Critical positions
Post by SommelierCH on Nov 17^th, 2002, 6:33am

Mark,

Great topic, but I immediately approached your thoughts from another angle. If the authorities tried to regulate the cluster heads it would give us profound legitimacy. In order to regulate us, they would have to know and understand our condition. I could see all sorts of advantages in insurance coverage improvement; after all if our condition is so dangerous that our health could be a danger to others, there would be a government mandate to deal with it. Doctors would be put on warning to look for this condition, which would further expand the treatment of it. It’s a can of worms, but maybe it should be opened.

May you all find comfort,

David

Title: Re: Critical positions
Post by Ted on Nov 17^th, 2002, 8:51am

Interesting questions to contemplate but before any regulations should be considered by those who make them it should probably be looked into if there's even been a higher rate of screw ups where someone else got hurt over the general population. Are there more truck crashes (percentagewise) with CHeads than the general population, e.g? In the last newsletter (regarding law enforcement) a section of one of the articles discusses Echo and his getting hit while in a firefight with a perp. So, if anything, without a study on it, we should make our own decisions. And as for jerking our driver's licenses? Not a shot. As quickly as it builds up, we still have time to pull over most of the time. Like I've said in a previous post, I've never had to suddenly let go of the wheel and crash into a tree because of an attack. There is time to pull over, usually.
I think I'm even more against regualtions being written just to get name recogniton/legitimacy. If I try not to limit what I can do in life, as much as I can, because of the actual pain, I'm certainly against it just to get people to say "I've heard of those. Those really are painful, from what I understand."

Title: Re: Critical positions
Post by eyes_afire on Nov 17^th, 2002, 10:03am

Ted is exactly right on this one.

It most certainly does open a barrel of worms.

Right now clusterheadaches are misdiagnosed by doctors. How will a doctor prove someone is a clusterhead and unfit to drive? How many lives would be ruined due to a misdiagnosis?

Such driving rules will certainly cause some clusterheads to convince thier doctors to diagnose them as migraines and prescribe imitrex. A clusterheadache diagnosis would than be a diagnosis to be avoided at all costs and would certainly not help because there will be many 'underground clusterheads' not willing to count themselves as clusterheads. The effective number of clusterheads would dwindle.

If clusterheadaches are to be regulated this way, then why not migraines? If I'm not mistaken the migraine aura involves visual disturbances and numbness. Certainly that should then be cause to prohibit migraineurs from driving, right? Or how about people with high cholesterol and at risk of having a heart attack?

Would all this grief be worth it if clusterheads are statistically no more likely to be the cause of an accident? Humans can't insulate themselves from life and the misfortunes that may befall them. People will get sick and have disease. Accidents will happen. People have heart attacks while driving. Tires can blow out and cause accidents.

However, there could be one benefit resulting from such regulations: To scorch the heels of the infidel clusterhead imposters causing them to run to the light (and leave the message board) ::) :P

Title: Re: Critical positions
Post by SommelierCH on Nov 17^th, 2002, 12:04pm

I just re-read what I had posted earlier this morning and I’ve got to say it’s full of crap. I don’t know what I was thinking, it flies in the face of everything I’ve stood up against or fought for, going all the way back to protesting the Independence, Missouri school board’s dress code policy prohibiting girls from wearing pants or slacks to school (they HAD to wear dresses).

I totally agree with Ted and eyes_afire. Just goes to show you what being up for 32 hours can do to your head. Thank god I wasn’t driving a truck. ;D

Title: Re: Critical positions
Post by nancyc on Nov 17^th, 2002, 12:22pm

I am a nurse...have gotten hit while preparing an injection, doing an assessment and trying to restrain a violent patient. I have had to learn how to maintain when this happens..not always easy but possible....have also been hit while driving a car to work...i pulled over and took an imitrex shot...smiles,nancyc

Title: Re: Critical positions
Post by David Shea on Nov 17^th, 2002, 12:23pm

CH should not be an excluding factor. We can't insulate
our self or others from misfortune. Eyes-A-Fire is right on
with his post.

Mark C question is should we continue to do are jobs
that we hold in Critical Postions when we know we are aflicted with CH ?

David

Title: Re: Critical positions
Post by Charlie on Nov 17^th, 2002, 4:31pm

Putting CH into an even more recognized disability would make our lives miserable. Nope. Ted is right.

If you want real misery, place more restrictions on CHers. Think we're dangerous on the road? There are thousands of diagnosed epileptics out there with licenses who are having seizures every day. A lot of epileptics love telling others that they fool the motor vehicle bureaus. Scary shit.

Charlie

Title: Re: Critical positions
Post by eyes_afire on Nov 17^th, 2002, 8:31pm

You're right David, I didn't really address the original question. I would say that when it comes to stuff like driving, it is essential that each person take responsibility for themselves. If someone is unable to control thier vehicle, they should not drive, no excuses. If someone is unable to control thier vehicle (or thier actions on the job) and causes a disaster, they should be prepared to accept the consequences and not shift the blame. There's too much blame-shifting now-a-days (can you believe someone is suiing McDonalds because BigMac's gave them heart disease ??? ::) ). That doesn't just apply to CH, it also applies to driving in bad weather, drinking too much alcohol, taking too much Nyquil, etc. I have seen many drunk drivers and even more careless drivers (who don't even know they are careless). Those are the ones that need to be regulated.

Now lets say you're an air traffic controller (for example) and you get many CH. If you become incapacitated and there are no provisions to relieve you of your post, then you should reconsider your profession. Anyone serving in one of these 'critical positions' must talk with thier employer. Due to the Americans With Disabilities Act, employers (USA) must make reasonable provisions to accomodate disabilities. However they aren't obligated to do so at the risk of other peoples lives.

Now, having said all that, there are some situations that mandate the restriction of things like driving privledges or work restrictions. I just don't think that CH is one of them. I think that personal responsibility would be much more efficient than government intervention.

Title: Re: Critical positions
Post by David Shea on Nov 18^th, 2002, 7:46am

Eyes-I agree with all of your post, It this is An Issue
with my employment as we speak.
David

Title: Re: Critical positions
Post by Mr.Happy on Nov 18^th, 2002, 8:08am

Eyes - Yeah...what you said. Your post was filled with two noticable items that seem to be veritabley eradicated from our current society: Personal Responsibility and Common Sense.

Luckily, I don't have to worry about "Critical Positions". My _Wife_ decides what they will be, as well as when, where, and for how long.............

Title: Re: Critical positions
Post by woobie on Nov 18^th, 2002, 8:31am

LOL!!! ;D
Mr. Happy - yOu CRACK me UP!!!

Title: Re: Critical positions
Post by cerebus on Nov 18^th, 2002, 11:46am

Whew....What a topic. But guess what? I have alot to say(go figure).

first , I agree almost totaly with Eyes-of fire. personal regulation and common sense are very effective tools to us at this point. I do not trust the government to make the proper adjustments necessary to preserve our quality of life, Limited as it is already. However, surgeons are allowed to perform delicate proceedures while logging in days of sleepless nights, Air traffic controllers are permitted to "guide" peoples saftey in similar conditions, and as far as ship captains, pilots, truckers, etc. go they create as much risk as anyone in a limited capacitated state.
The AMA recently convened a meeting to vote on the topic of limiting physicians working hours to a manageable level. Pilots and air traffic controllers are subject to all sorts of new tests and assessments (mostly due to the events involving 9-11). While I DO believe that more exposure to CH would be brought to the forefront of the medical community and government, I DO NOT believe that it would be a certain positive outcome.
In the state I live in..(Illinois) it is possible to be charged with DUI if you operate a car while on prescribed and very necessary meds, such as preventatives for seizures, heart meds, etc.
the alternative to this is revoking the driving privilages of anyone taking meds for ANY reason which would be rediculous. In Wisconsin it is possible to recieve a more harsh penalty for assault, than if you kill someone with a car while drunk.
The bottom line here for me is that every state has problems regulating their own laws and no one can agree on what steps to take to solve the problem, therefore can we really TRUST our state and federal governments to take in all the facts and make an educated decision on this particular topic? I think NOT.
example: Our sysstem of government was founded on religous beliefs and our laws based on the ten-commandments yet my kids cant say the pledge of allegiance or even mention the word God in school. And the National Anthem has changed at sporting events to America the beautiful? The Irony here is that even though we claim separation of church and state our State and Federal Congresses still open and close each session with what?................yes, go ahead and say it.....a prayer. Trust the government to make the right decision ....no way.

To bullit:
I've been to Canada alot and I must disagree about the gun thing, Canada didnt arm Canadians with guns. Those people are Americans, Canadians seem to have more sense than that. LOL!

Title: Re: Critical positions
Post by David Shea on Nov 18^th, 2002, 11:53am

Captain Brown- Well said, only the canadieans have
armed them selfs..
David

Title: Re: Critical positions
Post by kim on Nov 18^th, 2002, 7:43pm

having an attack while driving..........it's only me but i doubt (almost 100% that is a public safety threat) yeah it hurts like hell and is totally stressful. but it ain't gonna crack upthe car. Only the driver. ::)

Title: Re: Critical positions
Post by Charlie on Nov 18^th, 2002, 9:07pm

The United States was not founded on religion or by Bible thumpers. Quite the contrary.

Charlie

Title: Re: Critical positions
Post by eyes_afire on Nov 18^th, 2002, 10:01pm

Thanks Charlie for setting the record straight. I knew that was coming. 8)