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(Message started by: don on Nov 12th, 2002, 12:12pm)
Title: Educating Doctors
Post by don on Nov 12th, 2002, 12:12pm
Bouncing around an idea.

Should OUCH set up an area on the website where people can subit the names of Doctors who's craniums are deeply imbeded in their Glutious Maximus?
Ex;


Quote:
"Don't call it a cluster headache as it is not one.  You can't possibly be suffering from a cluster headache as it only exists in men between 18-45 yrs of age.


Should OUCH make a professional courteous contact with such Doctors ? Help them extract their craniums?
Title: Re: Educating Doctors
Post by Ted on Nov 12th, 2002, 12:18pm
Depends upon how the submitals would be viewed. If it would be out in the open like the good doctors spot, nope. Could be a legal explosion there and people might submit names of doctors who they just have a personal grudge with. But, if the names of those who are submited could only be seen by a few people, I like the idea with having OUCH politely educating them.
Title: Re: Educating Doctors
Post by OneEyeBlind on Nov 12th, 2002, 12:19pm
I kind of like the idea of coming up with a nice, cutious letter from ouch stating that a patient did not get what they were looking for.  Inlcude the specifics of the patients care in the letter and what was wrong.  I think you always have to keep in the back of your mind, that you are looking to educate the doctors, not alienate them. You want them to be more aware.  I thinks its a great idea if handled properly.  Put someone who is very diplomatic in charge of this task and it will be a win win for everyone !!!!!!
Title: Re: Educating Doctors
Post by don on Nov 12th, 2002, 12:23pm
Nope, no specific patient information, that would create a liability issue over confidentiality. Doctor would shut right down. I think a generic contact would be more suitable.
Title: Re: Educating Doctors
Post by Margi on Nov 12th, 2002, 12:26pm
I agree with Ted here, Don - posting Dr's names in a public forum could come back to bite us on the ass if handled improperly.

Maybe set up a committee for Physician Liaison and have folks send suggestions in to them, without actually publishing names (of doctors OR patients) on the website.  The Liaison would act as a filter for professionalizing communication and information sent to the cluster-uneducated docs.  We don't want someone writing as an OUCH representative without OUCH being fully involved in the process.

I volunteer Ted to head up the Physician Liaison  Committee.  :)  He's a really good letter writer.
Title: Re: Educating Doctors
Post by don on Nov 12th, 2002, 12:31pm
Good thread. Good feedback. Keep it coming.
Title: Re: Educating Doctors
Post by Ted on Nov 12th, 2002, 12:34pm
I volunteer Margi to take dictation for whoever heads up the committee.
Title: Re: Educating Doctors
Post by Drk^Angel on Nov 12th, 2002, 12:37pm
Dear Dr. <insert doctor's name here>,

It has come to our attention that a patient of your's may have received an incorrect diagnosis.  It is our opinion that the patient may actually have cluster headaches based on their symptoms and/or prior diagnosis.  We believe this issue may be the result of outdated, incomplete, or inaccurate information about cluster headaches that you may have received, and would like to offer you the following information about cluster headaches.  

<insert information here>

This information is up to date, and is supported by the International Headache Society, National Headache Foundation, and the top neurologists around the world.  If you would like to discuss this further, please feel free to e-mail O.U.C.H. at <insert e-mail address here>, or by phone at <insert phone number here>.

Sincerely,



<insert name here>
<designated position in O.U.C.H.>


This letter should be on O.U.C.H. letterhead, with proper contact information for the organization on the letterhead.  It should be sent to the business correspondence mailing address of the doctor, with the O.U.C.H. logo on the envelope.  The more professional the idea appears on the outside, the more likely it'll be opened.  The more professional it is on the inside, the more likely it will be read.

PFDAN........................................... Drk^Angel
Title: Re: Educating Doctors
Post by kim on Nov 12th, 2002, 12:49pm
Or, ya could avoid the "incorrect diagnosis" thing (might peeve the bugger).  OUCH letterhead, brief but ACCURATE description of Cluster Headaches (dispelling the gender thingy) and enclosing info + politely inviting them to visit the website for themselves?   ..............i dunno.  If that doesn't work, I'd still be glad to send a "nice, polite e-mail" ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Educating Doctors
Post by don on Nov 12th, 2002, 12:52pm
A couple of suggested changes.



Dear Dr. <insert doctor's name here>,

Recently we have been made aware of the mis -diagnosis of Cluster Headaches for other maladies amongst many of our international membership.
We believe the issues may be the result of outdated, incomplete, or inaccurate information about cluster headaches that you may have received, and would like to offer you the following information about cluster headaches.  

<insert information here>

This information is up to date, and is supported by the International Headache Society, National Headache Foundation, and the top neurologists around the world.  If you would like to discuss this further, please feel free to e-mail O.U.C.H. at <insert e-mail address here>, or by phone at <insert phone number here>. Our services are with out cost to  the Medical Community, Cluster Headache suffersand their advocates.
Sincerely,



<insert name here>
<designated position in O.U.C.H.>
Title: Re: Educating Doctors
Post by Slammy on Nov 12th, 2002, 12:55pm

on 11/12/02 at 12:12:49, don wrote:
Bouncing around an idea.

Should OUCH set up an area on the website where people can subit the names of Doctors who's craniums are deeply imbeded in their Glutious Maximus?



If we are trying to get doctors like Kudrow to recognize this organization, then this would not be a very good idea.  I doubt that this would be well received. In general, doctors have difficulties receiving criticism, however constructive, from any panel that is not made up of their peers, and then, they have a hard time with one that IS made up of their peers.






Slammy   8)
Title: Re: Educating Doctors
Post by Ted on Nov 12th, 2002, 12:56pm
There's some typographical errors that need to be cleaned up in this too. But my question is why isn't O.U.C.H. up there with the IHS and the NHF section?
Title: Re: Educating Doctors
Post by Drk^Angel on Nov 12th, 2002, 12:58pm
Also add a disclaimer at the bottom of the letter.  something like "O.U.C.H. is a non-profit organization dedicated to the understanding of cluster headaches"  Just for a professional touch.

PFDAN...................................... Drk^Angel
Title: Re: Educating Doctors
Post by don on Nov 12th, 2002, 1:00pm
Slammy


Quote:
doctors have difficulties receiving criticism, however constructive, from any panel that is not made up of their peers,


Thats their problem not ours. Our responsibilty still lies in education and awareness. We can't force them to accept OUCH but we can make them aware.

OUCH is now a recognized, ligitimate non profit and we should be taking our place at the table.
Title: Re: Educating Doctors
Post by echo on Nov 12th, 2002, 1:01pm
Drk's letter is a great start.  Much better than

Hey shit for brains,
It has come to our attention that you are an uninformed idiot and should have your practice reduced to wrapping rotting flesh wounds in a 3rd world country.

Kidding aside, I agree that the potential for some Dr to get their nickers in a wad and sue is subject.  Proper wording would inform, show .org professionalism, and be beneficial.  Maybe the officers of the .org could have a hidden data base of Dr/Neuro for members to avoid.  Keeping the public list of who to contact.
Title: Re: Educating Doctors
Post by Drk^Angel on Nov 12th, 2002, 1:03pm
Ted... Because O.U.C.H. is sending the letter, and providing the information, it should be assumed that O.U.C.H. supports the information.  Throwing out names like IHS and NHF is just to add credibility to the information provided.  Most doctors are aware of IHS and NHF, but they are probably not as aware of O.U.C.H. yet, so a little credibility may be needed to get our point across.

PFDAN................................................. Drk^Angel
Title: Re: Educating Doctors
Post by Slammy on Nov 12th, 2002, 1:06pm
Don,

I don't disagree with that.  OUCH's responsibility is to educate and make aware.  But "How" we do that is to be considered.  The question is... do we take our rightful place at the table by being confrontational, or do we develop a positive relationship with the medical field and "team up" with them in regards to OUCH's goals.







Slammy   8)
Title: Re: Educating Doctors
Post by Ted on Nov 12th, 2002, 1:07pm
I don't think it's a good idea to have any kind of a system of who to avoid. How would we know? If we just take the word of someone who writes in to OUCH how would we be sure it's not a competitor doctor trying to get more business or a patient who personally has something against a doctor? Or even a doctor who may actually be excellent but its the patient who's ignorant on the CH subject. To do something that potentially suable/libelous OUCH would really have to have a professional investigate each and every doctor a complaint was made about.
Title: Re: Educating Doctors
Post by Ted on Nov 12th, 2002, 1:11pm
Drk, I know why the IHS and NHF was added to the letter. And it's a good idea. But putting our name there wouldn't detract from the credibility but would have the self-serving benefit of subtley giving/adding to our own credibility. It wouldn't make the letter or the impact of it any less, but it would only help OUCH to go out into the world saying we're as good as anyone else. It's all just about marketing us while also doing a good thing.
Title: Re: Educating Doctors
Post by Drk^Angel on Nov 12th, 2002, 1:13pm
Slammy is right... And you know I don't say that often.  The letter should not hint towards the possibility of the doctor being wrong at all.  The letter should instead be written to appear that we, as a non-profit for cluster headache, are offering up to date, accurate information to better assist them with their cluster headache patients.  Explain that with information changing so rapidly about this disease, that we felt it was important to educate as many doctors as we can with the newest information.  That way we may be able to prevent an automatic rejection of the letter based on hurt pride, and may actually get our point across to more docs.

PFDAN...................................... Drk^Angel
Title: Re: Educating Doctors
Post by kim on Nov 12th, 2002, 1:18pm
Sending out letters could be a good thing.  MUST be careful of the language or could get in big trouble and do more harm than good.  Not a good idea to present a doctor with the suggestion that he/she MIS-DIAGNOSED or was INNACURATE.  It just won't cut the mustard.

I still like the idea of mailers, keep it simple and see if get any nibbles.  Take baby steps - LOL

High Anxiety :D
Title: Re: Educating Doctors
Post by Drk^Angel on Nov 12th, 2002, 1:25pm
Ted... But it may also come across to some that we are being a little arrogant, but I definitely see your point.

PFDAN................................... Drk^Angel
Title: Re: Educating Doctors
Post by don on Nov 12th, 2002, 1:25pm
Absolutely any comminication should be in a non judgemental format and one of offering our services only. Weather or not a health care professional accepts the offer is beyond our control but we have planted a seed and at the very least the prof. may pass the OUCH info on to a sufferer.
Title: Re: Educating Doctors
Post by OneEyeBlind on Nov 12th, 2002, 1:51pm
Don, great idea ... Dark and all the others, great suggestions !!!!  I am loving this post !!!!!  You go guys .. think ya got a good team of advisors too, Don  !!!!!  I'll stay out of it ... I am a weinee ... and know it !!!   Ain't life grand ?????
Title: Re: Educating Doctors
Post by Drk^Angel on Nov 12th, 2002, 1:58pm
Dear Dr. <insert doctor’s name here>,

It has come to our attention that the continuously changing information about cluster headaches may have some negative impact on the proper diagnosis of the disease.  With this in mind, we have decided to proactively work to update doctors who may deal with cluster headache sufferers on a daily basis.  Please accept the attached information on cluster headaches, verified by O.U.C.H. to be the most accurate and up to date information available.  The information has been gathered from the O.U.C.H. resources, and other headache professionals such as the International Headache Society, the National Headache Foundation, and some of the top neurologists around the world.  

We hope that you find this information useful, and welcome your questions if further information is needed.  You can contact O.U.C.H. at anytime by email at <insert email address here>, or by phone at <insert phone number here>.  Our normal hours of operation are <list days and hours here>.  You may also visit our official website at http://www.clusterheadaches.org/ for further information on cluster headaches or about our organization in general.

Thank you for your time and have a good day.

Sincerely,



<name of O.U.C.H. rep>
<official position of rep>


O.U.C.H. is a non-profit organization dedicated to the understanding of cluster headaches, and it’s sufferers.
Title: Re: Educating Doctors
Post by David Shea on Nov 12th, 2002, 2:16pm
Good idea I think, And drk angels surgestions were very
good close to what I would say.

But, Maybe A printable form for this would be better
with A letter to the docs. From the board at Ouch saying
A miss evaluation has been made. Serval reasons could
be listed, A study would have to be made of the most
common. There could be A box the sufferer would check
for the concern missdiagnois.
Maybe the letter could be indorsed by the doctors who
have Contributed to OUCH
David
Title: Re: Educating Doctors
Post by don on Nov 12th, 2002, 2:17pm
Good one Drk

I'd leave out
Quote:
proper
though and just leave at diagnosis
Title: Re: Educating Doctors
Post by Drk^Angel on Nov 12th, 2002, 2:29pm
David... The letter should not be printed and sent by the sufferer.  It should be a letter sent by a designated official of O.U.C.H., on O.U.C.H. letterhead, in an O.U.C.H. envelope.  If the sufferer wants to send a separate letter, that should be up to them, and should not be endorsed by O.U.C.H., nor should it make reference to O.U.C.H. to appear that the organization supports the sufferer's letter.

Don... You're probably right.

PFDAN............................... Drk^Angel
Title: Re: Educating Doctors
Post by David Shea on Nov 12th, 2002, 2:47pm
HI Drk- My thoughts were something more like the letter
one can print to give to his or her employer.

I agree your thoughts on how to address the issue.
Are perfect. The printable letter like the one to the employers of sufferes is just another way to get it out.

I hope you take on the project. And let these docs.
know the beast is playing baseball with our heads.
Just kidding there... I was LOL when I read that post
to A newbie. Thanks for the Humor, We need more.
David
Title: Re: Educating Doctors
Post by Elaine on Nov 12th, 2002, 2:54pm
I think instead of any type of letter, you could just send them printed out information from the OUCH site. What they do with it is up to them. No worries at all then about any law suits!!! If someone knows a doctor that needs this information sent it to them.
It wouldn't hurt to send all our doctors stuff about the next convention. Who knows you might have a few show up!
Title: Re: Educating Doctors
Post by don on Nov 12th, 2002, 2:59pm
I dunno E.

I think an introductory letter would be appropriate. Drug companies send them tons of info and we could end up in that pile of dust that never gets read.
Title: Re: Educating Doctors
Post by Drk^Angel on Nov 12th, 2002, 3:08pm
David... I would say that a letter like Simon's letter would not be well received by docs.  It would seem better for someone to print out the existing info for their docs, because if their doctor is willing to except anything, then at least this would provide the most info... Although it'd probably be best to keep it to only a page or two of info, so that the doc doesn't just set it aside, and ignore it.  But any letter given to the doctor by the supporter claiming that the doctor was wrong should not be linked to O.U.C.H., and should not just be a form letter.  

If a sufferer wants to challenge a doctors diagnosis in writing, they should formulate the letter themselves, and provide multiple references to support the challenge.  This is not something that O.U.C.H. can do for the sufferer, but the O.U.C.H. website and CH.com could be used as some of the references, and information sources.  The letter should be as specific for the particular sufferer, and diagnosis as possible.  A form letter to the doctor would probably just be rejected, and wouldn't solve anything.  

PFDAN........................................... Drk^Angel
Title: Re: Educating Doctors
Post by Drk^Angel on Nov 12th, 2002, 3:14pm
E... There shouldn't be any legal issues to deal with sending a letter to the doctor.  The letter will be private, will contain accurate, updated, verifiable information, and will not be accusing anyone of any wrong doing.  It will be a way of introducing O.U.C.H. to doctors, while possibly educating the doctor with reliable information.  Plus, providing this information directly to doctors, they may be impressed enough to even mention our organization to their CH patients.  May be a long shot, but we can hope.

PFDAN.............................. Drk^Angel
Title: Re: Educating Doctors
Post by Axis on Nov 12th, 2002, 4:59pm
I get along very well with 2 of my doctors, And if you type this up the way you want it and send it too me I'll take it to them and ask what they think about it and how they might receive a letter of this type if they got it in the mail or had it handed to them by a patient.
I'll also take notes on their input and send them back to you.
Rod.
Title: Re: Educating Doctors
Post by jonny on Nov 12th, 2002, 5:30pm
*Yawn*.......I'll be sitting back here incase you need someone to put a boot in someones ass.

Nite.

..............................jonny ;D
Title: Re: Educating Doctors
Post by Jackie on Nov 12th, 2002, 5:43pm
Perhaps presenting some of the most pertinent 'facts and figures' about clusters (from OUCH and ch.com) would be a good strategy.....along with a very diplomatic and well written cover letter.

Jacks 8)
Title: Re: Educating Doctors
Post by SteveY on Nov 12th, 2002, 5:46pm
I like Echo's version ;D

Steve
Title: Re: Educating Doctors
Post by Charlie on Nov 12th, 2002, 6:50pm
If we want to convey information, here are a few things:

Doctors do not like being told they need further education.

If you send something like this to a doctor, there better be a narrative hook or something to hold their attention.  They don’t really have time to read.

The best way to get results from just about anyone is to get the recipient to believe they are asking the questions or supplying some of the answers. Get the doctor to feel they finding out the information and not being told that here is something you don’t know.

Perhaps asking the doctor if they have had success with (name your therapy) and how valuable was it. Do you think it’s well-known that many more women have been diagnosed with CH.  What do you think about some of the positive results reported by or with (name whatever). Do you think (name the thing) would work for your patients?

That kind of thing can go on and on. My suspicion is the they will like feeling they are being asked their opinion.

Bear in mind that almost all MDs are avery frustrated with CH as they aren’t able to come up with some magic bullet.

Also, keep it as short as possible.

Just some ideas kids

Charlie
Title: Re: Educating Doctors
Post by Jackie on Nov 12th, 2002, 7:13pm
All very valid points, Charles.....

Jacks 8)
Title: Re: Educating Doctors
Post by catlind on Nov 12th, 2002, 7:32pm
I'm not at all against the idea.  I'm just not sure it would be worth the time, energy and postage.  I took in the cluster info and brochure from OUCH when I went to my neuro and he gave it back to me, I shoved it back on his desk and left it there.

He still insists Cluster headaches are a type of migraine.
Not sure that the Docs would even give it a look....I know Dr. Latif here in Watertown didn't....he didn't even want to keep the brochure, let alone read it.  I can be fairly sure he just threw it out after I left.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Info coming from other medical professionals might at least get read...Goadsby, Kudrow etc.  

Cat
Title: Re: Educating Doctors
Post by Not4Hire on Nov 12th, 2002, 7:43pm
I like echo's version, too....and left to his own devices, don would probably embellish it with jonny's BBB's as back-up.....

..having said that, .....ya always catch more bees with honey than with vinegar......

Drk is on the right path, but the language is a bit convoluted and off-putting. Keep it simple, to the point, pro-active and not accusatory. If sufferers who feel they are being stone-walled by their doctors, whether through ignorance, fear of litigation, fear, or just because the doc had a bad back nine on the golf course-----the very fact that they are receiving a courteous, well-written letter from OUCH should indicate that SOMEBODY is concerned.

Everybody today in this litigious society is looking over their shoulder--for good reason. The public is tired of being fucked over, ignored, and expected to *pay* for little or no relief. If we can enlighten a few of these over-paid dorks, a few more of the sufferers may find some relief.

....just my .02


...oh yeah, BESTFUCKINGTHREAD in weeks!
Title: Re: Educating Doctors
Post by fubar on Nov 12th, 2002, 8:08pm
I think it would be great if we had a pre-packaged, up-to-date, package of information that people can simply print out and give to their doctor.

Maybe I am incredibly lucky, but my doctor is extremely willing to work with me to find a solution to whatever problem I have.  He has, on occasion, willingly accepted, (hell, asked for) any new information I might stumble across since he knows it is impossible to keep up with everything that is going on... he feels lucky to have patients willing to do their own homework, but he exercises the same medical judgment when prescribing new treatments.

By way of example, after I found this site, I told him about O2 and he said he had no experience prescribing it but wanted to know more about it.  I said I would print out all the information here, but as I started to do that, I realized most of the discussion is way too informal to be presented to doctors and still have credibility.  What I’d like is a resource to bring doctors up-to-date on new treatments specific to CH and provide explicit generally accepted prescribing information (e.g. how much O2 for how long, tank sizes, etc.)

Anyway, if we could put together a package of information that could be printed out, people could simply get it, print it and give to their doctor.  It doesn’t have to be done in an insulting way.  The cover letter can be non-threatening, and persuasive.  Doctors like to learn. They don’t like to be taught.  The package of information is an offering.  If you have a good doctor, they’ll read it.  Doctors do not operate in the digital world (for work, anyway).  They are firmly rooted in the paper world, so someone has to bridge the divide.  We should make that simple.

I’m willing to host the ‘package’ on my web site, if this isn’t a stupid idea.  Maybe this exists already.  :o
Title: Re: Educating Doctors
Post by Drk^Angel on Nov 13th, 2002, 12:51am
The information is provided in a accurate, professional matter already.  Go to http://www.clusterheadaches.org/  Lots and lots of information that can be printed out.  More information you can hope to find anywhere.  Everything from the studies to treatments to surveys.  And if you need a cover letter to go with it (although I have no idea why a cover letter would be necessary if you are providing the information to the doctor in person, so you should be able to verbally explain the contents of the packet of information being provided) all you have to do it write one up.  The personal touch to a letter is the best option anyways.  If you need something written by O.U.C.H. with the O.U.C.H. logo... Join O.U.C.H., print the brochure, give that to the doctor with the packet.

PFDAN.................................... Drk^Angel
Title: Re: Educating Doctors
Post by fubar on Nov 13th, 2002, 1:09am
Drk^Angel,

Yeah, I did all that and I was successful in educating my doctor and everything is cool on my end.  I was just suggesting we make this simple to download in a format that a bit easier to print out or fax.

like I said before, maybe it's a stupid idea

-fu
Title: Re: Educating Doctors
Post by Drk^Angel on Nov 13th, 2002, 1:39am
It may be a good idea, but this thread wasn't really dealing with that issue.  Also, the problem with a one lump download of all the information available would be too large of a file for most to download, or print, and with the information continuously being updated, I'm sure Bob spends enough time adding to the site without also having to rebuild a lump download.  And trying to only lump the "needed" info wouldn't work because different ppl, with different doctors would probably need different info.  The way it's set up now, you just select the information you need, click print to print the page or right click and select to save the page if you want to save a copy to your hard drive.  If you need help, I'm sure if you click on the Contact Us link at the top right of the page, and send a quick email, Bob would try to find a way to help you.

In my opinion, if someone needs any information, it's fairly easy to obtain the way it is currently formatted.

PFDAN..................... Drk^Angel
Title: Re: Educating Doctors
Post by fubar on Nov 13th, 2002, 2:06am
ok whatever... my point seems lost.  i thought this thread was about educating doctors.  my bad.
Title: Re: Educating Doctors
Post by Drk^Angel on Nov 13th, 2002, 2:11am
According to the first post of this thread, the purpose of the thread is as follows:


on 11/12/02 at 12:12:49, don wrote:
Bouncing around an idea.

Should OUCH set up an area on the website where people can subit the names of Doctors who's craniums are deeply imbeded in their Glutious Maximus?
Ex;


Should OUCH make a professional courteous contact with such Doctors ? Help them extract their craniums?


That would appear to indicate a contact by O.U.C.H. to the doctor in question to try to provide a bit of education to the doc as a professional organizational trying to promote the understanding of cluster headaches.

It's nothing against your idea, but I really think this is a good idea, and we should concentrate on this topic.

PFDAN...................................... Drk^Angel
Title: Re: Educating Doctors
Post by fubar on Nov 13th, 2002, 2:14am
relax Drk, I wasn't being completely sarcastic.  Besides, when did we start enforcing 'thou shalt not veer'?  lighten up.  My suggestion was completely on topic with regard to finding ways for patients to deal with ignorant doctors, no?  Aren't forums supposed to be for brainstorming? as in:

"Here's an idea"
"Well, here's another approach"

etc.
Title: Re: Educating Doctors
Post by Drk^Angel on Nov 13th, 2002, 2:29am
Calm down m8... No disrespect intended.  Just trying to clarify.  Seems the thread's about played out anyways.

Don... I still think this is a good idea.  Let me know if you need any help with it.

PFDAN................................ Drk^Angel
Title: Re: Educating Doctors
Post by Hound_Dogg on Nov 13th, 2002, 6:31am
Just when it started to get interesting....Let's not forget about the Great Doc's. Maybe we can send then a Bumper Sticker or something
Title: Re: Educating Doctors
Post by Bob P on Nov 13th, 2002, 8:55am
Maybe just send them one of the new brochures (when they are ready).  It covers symptoms, facts and myths of ch.  It's a 30 second read.

Which reminds me, I should take down the old one asking people to pay for membership in OUCH.
Title: Re: Educating Doctors
Post by don on Nov 13th, 2002, 12:27pm
Yes Bob you should. We dont want you absconding with ill gotten monetary units. Euros or otherwise.   ;D
Title: Re: Educating Doctors
Post by Bob P on Nov 13th, 2002, 1:26pm
I'm taking good care of OUCH's money.
http://pahlow.net/temp/ouchs_money.jpg
Title: Re: Educating Doctors
Post by Karla on Nov 13th, 2002, 2:08pm
I just wanted to say that I like the last letter Drk wrote and think that is very close to perfection.  Don great thinking.  Nice to see your on your toes.  This is something that is very badly needed.  Thanks everyone for your input.
Title: Re: Educating Doctors
Post by Jackie on Nov 13th, 2002, 3:57pm
Bob....

Careful...the gal on your right looks like possible "jail bait".... ::)

Jacks 8)
Title: Re: Educating Doctors
Post by jonny on Nov 13th, 2002, 4:02pm
Bob,

Thats the funniest damn thing I have seen in a very long time, we are talking tears here.....LMMFYBO!!!!!!! ;D ;D

...............jonny ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Educating Doctors
Post by hdbngr on Nov 27th, 2002, 4:02pm
I still like the idea. What about a survey of Doctors instead? If they were classified by state, using a star or numeric rating, a Doc or clinic that was seen as consistently "misinformed" or provided rotten or no treatment would show low ratings. We could cruise the site and quit wasting our time and money by going to them. As new people come to the site with a positive experiences, their ratings will change, or stay the same.

I have recently been told I "didn't smell like a cluster patient (meaning I didn't smoke or drink)" which I found REALLY offensive. Comments like that should never be said, true or not. It would be nice if there were a way to let them know of these issues.

I guarantee that the docs and clinics are cruising this site too, and are well aware of the advantages of internet marketing. If they were consistently getting lower reviews, they would want to find out why, as well as the nature of specific complaints that had been made. Kind of like the Better Business Beureau. If a complaint is made against anyone who is a member, they get a letter notifying them of it and it goes in the file. They can contact and find out why they were "tagged" or leave it alone. They decide to be endorsed by BBB, and actually pay a fee, so they have to take the bad with the good, or they don't have to be a member.

Then the ball would be in their court to "improve" their services, and therefore their rating with this group. I think many do not know their information is out of date, but probably would not take it well if they were told they screwed up.

This probably entails a lot of work, but it would be great.
Title: Re: Educating Doctors
Post by Dave_W on Nov 27th, 2002, 4:39pm
Bob,

I agree with Jackie, the babe to your right might be only about 14.  Oh, and that cigar looks Cuban from here.  Dangerous post!

My $0.02 worth on educating docs -- it would be nice, but the ones with which I have dealt seem to be at opposite ends of the spectrum.  There are those like the one I see nowadays who are willing to discuss and listen to opinions from outside their profession, and there are those who will only take another doc seriously.  There's a big old empty rift in between, (again, this is just in my personal experience).

For about 10 years of my career, I was unfortunate enough to play "hospital administrator" and boy oh boy would that ever be a job I would pass up if I got the chance again.  I can't tell you how many conversations I got into that ended with "Excuse me, but I'm a physician, you know, so I think I have the edge on this subject" -- even if the subject were Siberian snowflake shapes.  On the other hand, those who were willing to listen and absorb new info were certainly in the majority.

The sum of all this is that I think OUCH can play a great role in this -- if the right group of docs gets targeted in each geographical area.  In other words, if we have even a small number of docs to which we could refer those in need of eductation, I think we might be more effective.  The individual letters could be adapted from the versions (nice job, by the way) I've seen above, with the message to give a ring to Doc So-and-So, who is up on the latest research...

Based on my past relationships with hospital staff doctors, I think the listeners will be very open to joining our cause, and even some of the hard-ass egomaniacs will chip in if confronted properly.

Sorry if I rambled, but it's a ramblin' topic and I love it!!!!

Pain Free Days, all!!!!

Old Dave
Title: Re: Educating Doctors
Post by Drk^Angel on Nov 27th, 2002, 5:31pm
I agree... I don't think you smell like a clusterhead at all... But then again, the only reference I have for how a clusterhead smells is myself, and I would hope that you don't smell like me... Ewwwwwww...

I also agree that we should use Jonny's BBBs as a stamp of (dis)approval... Any doc not makin' the cut, OUCH pays for Jonny to go pay the doc a bit of a visit.  Those BBBs should straighten out the doc real quick.

PFDAN.............................. Drk^Angel
Title: Re: Educating Doctors
Post by sickofit on Nov 28th, 2002, 1:56pm
Im hearing alot of horror stories hear on misdiagnosis.So Im takin my hat off to the Drs at University Hospitals in Cleveland.After visiting some cheesy clinics and a few emergency rooms around the neighborhood and given Viox and tylenol(when I thought I was gonna die) I went there and found relief IMMEDIATELY!!They knew it was clusters (before cat scan) and put me on proper meds accordingly.If your in NE Ohio I would suggest this orginization.Wish everyone could be that lucky.


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