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(Message started by: dtruett on Nov 1^st, 2002, 12:48am)

Title: Suicide
Post by dtruett on Nov 1^st, 2002, 12:48am

Forgive my typing, but I'm on so much Percocet right now my eyes won't focus. 14 bad HAs in 15 nights. Worst cycle ever or close, following two years headache-free. I can't see going on like this. I know I am among those who understand. What keeps you going? I have functioned through pain and adversity that would lay many people low, but am wearying of the fight. I know our suicide rate is disproportionately high (DUH) for a reason. How to resist the impulse? It really seems like a logical way out. I have, of course, tried everything except the most exotic, such as hypothalmus stimulation etc. HELP!!!

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by marty on Nov 1^st, 2002, 2:12am

First of all, since you obviously is not a "chronic", your cycle will end - keep that in mind. The pain itself is not your worst enemy, it is the sleep deprevasion (did I spell that right) and the totality of the mental impact that is the hardest to deal with.

According to your post, you get hit once per night..? Does that mean once within a 24-hour period?

Have you seen a Neuro that knows his CH? what about Imitrex inj.?

As to the suicide rate... I'm not to sure about that - a logical way out - No it is not.

Pain and mental exhaustion can be very hard to deal with - Read everything on this message board - there is so much here.

Marty

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by norma on Nov 1^st, 2002, 3:06am

i am with Marty on this suicide is not the answer. Yes we all feel like it sometimes but it is not the answer, my father committed suicide when I was 18 hell of a thing to live with.

Several times it has crossed my mind as well as all of the other sufferers as well, but yes the pain will go away.

Find a GOOD dr and it will make all the difference. I am episodic, this week in cycle but given O2, inderal, and feriocet and it is much better and I am coping, for once.

Nobody said life was fair, and i agree these has are little bastards, no big but the pain will go away, plus I have talked with several chronic sufferers, now they got reason to bitch or check out but they dont so hang in there and remember, you are not alone and this is what the board is here for!!!!!!!

Hoping pain free for you soon.

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by Lapsi_Harmaahapsi on Nov 1^st, 2002, 3:16am

This is hard to see when in cycle, but my 9 pain-free months a year are kind of nice and very much worth living.

I don't know if this has been discussed before, but could be that antidepressants would take the "edge" off the depression that follows with a cycle?

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by OneEyeBlind on Nov 1^st, 2002, 3:49am

Dtruett, what kind of meds are you taking for your headaches? Perhaps we can help you find some relief for those headaches with a better med .... making you feel a little less helpless. With the right meds you can abort a headache within 5 minutes ......... and 5 minutes a day of hell is not worth ending it all for ........... look at all those pain free hours left !!!!

Tell us about yourself .. what doctors you have seen, what meds you have tried ... perhaps we can suggest something that will work better for you.

In the meantime ... hang in there ......better days are ahead !!!!!

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by OneEyeBlind on Nov 1^st, 2002, 8:07am

Hey, I see you are signed on ... hope ya got a little sleep and are feeling better this morning.

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by dtruett on Nov 1^st, 2002, 8:14am

I jjust signed on, wrote a 20 minute post and reviewing it, hit the wheel on my mouse, which dumped it. Have to shower for work, will try to get back on before I leave and recall my thoughts. I am really needy right now. Please check this thread later tonight if I can't post in time. No-didn't sleep last night. Bless you for your caring.

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by OneEyeBlind on Nov 1^st, 2002, 8:17am

Call me if you need an active ear today. 717-957-4328. Take care and hang in !!!!!!!!!!!!

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by NotH20 on Nov 1^st, 2002, 8:37am

Sorry you are getting hit so hard right now DTruett....we all know that feeling all too well >:(

You must focus on the pain free time and the "good" times as opposed to dwelling on the pain and the "bad" days. Believe me when I say it's very difficult to think that way.....but you have friends/family here to help along the way......

We are all waiting on some info on your current meds - hopefully we can give you a suggestion that will give you some pain free time.....

Keep us informed.....

NotH20

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by dtruett on Nov 1^st, 2002, 8:57am

I will try to reconstruct my post. I consider my self chronic and am officially diagnosed as such. The two year hiatus was my only break in over 17 years. I have faith in my neuro. I also see a neuro who is out of my insurance network from time-to-time who looks over my treatments and suggests. Latest were Lidocain drops-doesn't work and no throat-and Indocin, which was like candy. I am refractive to oxygen. Sansert helped a little in the past, but just a little. See my post about the unavailability of Sansert from Novartin. Imitrex nasal-forget it! Just tried the injections and they seemed to help. Will try for more, but I know my insurance puts a strict cap on the number per month. Percocet used to work great, but last night it left a stabbing pain, less than the full beast, but one that evolved into another cluster in 45 minutes. Two more Percocet and no pain, but overdose with no vision-tracking, itching all night. The desparation comes, perhaps, with the fact that I do have good doctors, do research myself, and despite it all am being washed over with a sunami (?) of pain. Yes, the ONLY thing that keeps me going is the hope that there may be relief somewhere on the other side, but not knowing with what and when is so hard to deal with. On Nov. 11 my neuro is doing the Botox thing. My research shows me it is "iffy," but any port in a storm. I am not a wimp at this. I have prided myself in the ability to go to work and have my headaches at night and still function. By the way, I do have some multiples, as per last night and recently as things have escalated. I do know that there are others who are worse off than me, but I am still in a very, very bad place right now. One reason I posted was that I need to know how people in a REALLY bad state can go on. I have done the antidepressant thing. In fact, short antecdote to illustrate how absurd things can get. My last doctor was a true quack. He prescribed Prozac (SSRI) and Nardil (MAOI) concurrently 7 years ago. EVERYONE, nurses, aides, etc. knows that these are contraindicated. My wife rushed me to the hospital in the middle of the night when I had become incoherent. I had Serotonin Syndrom, and lapsed into an 8 day coma. Odds were against surviving, but I did. Not sure I wanted to, as I had 2 years of neurotransmitter-induced clinical depression, PTSD, anxiety attacks, and my wife left me. Yes, I know. "If you can make it through that, you can make it through this." It just doesn't seem like it. No light at the end of a long tunnel. I can't express what it means to me to be able to hear from others who suffer from ch. Having someone say that they will check the board to hear from me is so loving in a way that the so-called impersonality of bits and bytes is overridden. God bless you, although I am an atheist (don't hold it against me) and don't believe that my suffering or yours can be part of any divine plan. I will check my posts when I get home at 5 PST. Anything would help me through this night. I know the beast will greet me again.

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by F1World on Nov 1^st, 2002, 9:02am

Dtruett.... dude, sleep deprivation sucks, seriously. You end up with a ton of negativity on your plate which seems just too much to bear. With the exception of one night, I have not slept for more than 2-3 hours a night for the last 20 days now, so I know things seem bleak... but pause for the cause a moment, and take a look around you before you continue with current train of thought..... are you married, have a girlfriend, have kids???? You cannot give up on those that love and need you, and you just cannot give up on yourself..... There are guys and gals that are classified as chronic here, and they have been dealing with this crap on a daily basis for years... they are not quitters, they deal with this because there is NO OTHER OPTION... understand? I know what it is like to suffer, but not to their degree, and in no way am I saying that what you or I are going through is any less painful then they, but this will pass my man..... with a little hope, maybe sooner than later. There is no "easy way out" dude.... you MIGHT think it is for YOU, but what about the others in your life that think they themselves have failed you if you were to do so? What kind of pain and misery will you unleash on them??? Think about it.... don't be selfish.... life is a precious gift, don't squander the opportunities that your future holds for you!
You have come to the right place for help.... the people here are outstanding, they know where you are coming from, and I will assure you, they can help! They are extremely knowledgeable, and they won't give up on you....now, just don't give up on yourself. Layaway those weak thoughts and fight! Fight for today, tommorrow, and however long this may last..... don't lose out to this bastard demon, why let him win?

Take care of yourself Dtruett, as with all things mate.... this too shall pass!

F1World.

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by Margi on Nov 1^st, 2002, 9:10am

Awesome post, F1World. You speak for us all.

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by Bob P on Nov 1^st, 2002, 9:25am

Dude (that's my Califonia thingy comming out),

Narcotic pain killers have no place in the treatment of clsuter headaches, per the experts.

Lidocaine didn't work for me either.

Indocine is usually for CPH not CH.

Get your doc to write a letter of medical necessity to the Insurance. If you're as desperate as you sound, they will give you what you need.

Time to suck it up, do what you have to do, and take control of this thing.

Let me know if I can help in any way.

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by Marc on Nov 1^st, 2002, 10:03am

Couple of comments:

- Margi's right, F1's post was right on the money.

- I strongly agree with Bob P, in fact narcotics made things worse for me. No, not the pain, but the mental attitude. You just plain don't think straight with narcotic pain killers in your system. In my case, that made me more dangerous to myself.

I'd like to see what help we can offer via suggestions for treatment. Many people who have said that "nothing" helped have found that they were doing it wrong or they needed a different combination.

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by 9erfan on Nov 1^st, 2002, 10:07am

dtruett-
I've had 3-8 h/a's EVERY SINGLE day since the 2nd week of February, 2001! :'( :'( In those 20 months I've maybe had 5 (yes I said 5) nights where I've slept through the night. I've been depressed, and I've thought of suicide often.
The main reason that I WILL NOT kill myself is because of my love of God. I refuse to have the last act of my life be a mortal sin.
Sorry, you asked how we get through...and that's how I get through.
Ok, I'm not trying to shove God down anyone's throat (I would never do that). This is just my beliefs and what gets me through the days!
Virginia

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by Slydog on Nov 1^st, 2002, 10:44am

Dtruett, Can't say much more than what has already been said.......But you are in my thoughts and it is my hope that even the kind words and thoughts from the people on this board will give you a small thread of a reason to hang onto life. Slydog

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by Weldon on Nov 1^st, 2002, 10:46am

Hey little Bubba, I guess you've tried the sleeping in the recliner , the extra pillows and such , but I jacked the head of my bed up 8 in. and it stoped the night one's . Just make sure you sleep on the opposite side of the h.a.. Also several of us take the pain med's with Dr. Pepper or something else like it. I've been there myself so hang in there , its bound to get better.
Weldon

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by Karla on Nov 1^st, 2002, 11:11am

I get 8 ha every day for last 5 years. I am sick of the pain and constant shadowing. I had to quit working and go on disability because I couldn't work through my ha's or through my depression. I have felt like committing suicide many times. I have been on antidepressents for the 5 years also. I have had to up dosages and change meds to help stop the desire to kill myself. I understand you had a bad experience with antidepresents but with a good dr you can get through this. Also my belief in God has gotten me through plenty of times. Not because I am scared to go to hell for killing myself but because I do not want to be self righteous and say, "why me". Who am I to question the creator of the universe. He made me and he will take care of me just as he does the birds in the field. Maybe it is time to acknowlege a power greater than yourself and believe that you need someone or something besides your own willpower to get through this. It doesn't mean you are weak. There may be something to believeing and if it can help get you through. What have you to loose? As you can see from my post and the prior post a belief in God has been the answer to sanity.
I also hold out hope for a cure. Drs. are making discoveries a couple times a year for ch. Maybe one will help me. There is always hope you just have to look for it. Keep the chin up and hang in there.
Love, Karla

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by 9erfan on Nov 1^st, 2002, 11:52am

Karla, you said it so much better than I could. :D

dtruett, God can give you SO MUCH peace when you are fighting with the Beast!

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by Drk^Angel on Nov 1^st, 2002, 1:58pm

dtruett... How do I make it through? First and foremost... I'm a stubborn SoB, and I refuse to let the beast win. This shit is hard... The sleepless nights... The unbelieveable pain... The total inability of most ppl to care, or even give a damn. But when I'm in cycle, the beast pisses me off to the point that I'd rather keep fighting, just for the chance to kick it ass for good one day.

Secondly... My family and friends. I'd much rather endure this pain rather than force the pain of my passing on my family and friends. Death may seem like an easy out, but when you consider the reactions, death causes a great deal more harm than good.

Finally... This place, these people, have shown me that others suffer from this Hell, many suffering much worse than I can imagine, yet they continue to fight. If they can continue to fight with everything they've had to deal with, I know that I can. When I read about ppl who not only deal with this pain, but deal with it worse than I, or have other medical conditions that alone should make them consider giving up, and they continue on with their life as well as anyone can, I find the inspiration to rise above my self-pity, and fight that much harder.

Good luck!

PFDAN........................... Drk^Angel

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by StanTheMan on Nov 1^st, 2002, 2:30pm

I applaud much that has been said already. :)

Dtruett, you're with a family here that truly cares. Please hang in there -- don't give up!!

Suicide is NOT a way out, no matter what your sleep-deprived mind may be telling you.
(My immediate family survived a suicide about 22 years ago -- we went through about 5 years of pure hell because of it. We're doing better now, but the pain is still there after all these years.)

Yes, we all suffer extreme pain, to varying degrees, some more often than others.
Bottom line: this disorder we call CH's is rotten! It stinks! It can put tremendous strain on our loved ones, our marriages, our jobs, etc. But in spite of that, it doesn't have to run or ruin our lives. I, for one, refuse to let that happen. And it's only by God's mercy and grace that I've been able to do that.

Yes Dtruett, I'm sure brighter days are ahead. And tho' you may find it hard to believe right now, God does care!

Prayers for strength and pain free days,

Stan

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by Jimi on Nov 1^st, 2002, 3:00pm

One thing that you might try to help you during the night. When I was in cycle, I was being awaken every 2 hrs with one. Fortunetely 02 would knock it down. But the lack of sleep affected everything whether I was having a cluster or not. Ueli gave me some Amerge tablets and told me to take one before I went to sleep. It is a triptan like Imitrix only last longer. Linda slow for when you feel one coming on, but anyway I tried one as a preventative. I woke up with a cluster, BUT it wasn't 2 hours after I had went to sleep like normal. It was 6 in the morning. It kept the night ones away. Might be worth a try.

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by Charlie on Nov 1^st, 2002, 3:56pm

Welcome, and that you came here says a lot. We never shut up so you have your reading cut out for you.

We've all thought of killing ourselves but that's as far as it goes. For one thing, the suicide rate for us is no higher than average. It's true. Besides, suicide is only hard on those left behind.

Bob and the others are right. Narcotics are pretty useless for this horror. It's a waste of time and money.
You will find something here that will be far more effective. Read all you can.

Keep in touch and let us know how you're doing.

Charlie

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by 2late on Nov 1^st, 2002, 4:23pm

dtruett, suicide? although we all have thought about it, that's as far as it goes, everyone on this mb is stronger than the beast on his best day & our worst! i'm with Drk, family & friends get me thru my darkest hour, oh yeah & my harley ;D hang in there, you will be PF again! ..........2late

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by Jackie on Nov 1^st, 2002, 4:53pm

dtruett,
Jimi's tip about the Amerge at bedtime is a good one. My husband, Blake, does the same thing with the triptan, Zomig. He's chronic and when things get really bad that's what he does. The CH doesn't disappear but at least he gets a few hours sleep that way.

Jacks 8)

Jimi???.....who's Jimi ??? Do we know a Jimi..... ;D
Oh, it's that Jimi.........Hi Sweetie... :-*

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by kim on Nov 1^st, 2002, 4:56pm

hello dttruett,

understand the feelings you have expressed. I can remember about a century ago sitting at the kitchen table with my mom and not being able to talk, and my ears ringing due to overdose of pain killers. You feel like nothing works so WTF. It took some time, but eventually I began to realize that the pain pills actually AGGRAVATED the cluster headaches and were not effective.

Please investigate this site in its entirety. There is so much information about effective treatments for our malady. When you are in the midst of the hellish attacks it is difficult. But try when you are not having an attack to come here and really look at the treatments available.

I know that for many Verapimil - along with Lithium -- as a preventative has been extremely effective for many. There are a lot of different triptans available --

It will get better just hang in!

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by BarbaraD on Nov 1^st, 2002, 6:21pm

Ok pal, I'm chronic and right now in remission thanks to a drug called Topamax. Doesn't work for everyone, but it's my miracle drug. It has side effects, but I'll deal with them - After years of trying everything (and yes suicide crossed my mind more than once, but thanks to some real nice clusterheads, I stayed around). And I tried everything even surgery. THERE IS SOMETHING that will WORK for YOU..... It's just a matter of finding it.

If Imitrex works - use it. If it doesn't try Cafagot or DHE=45 (it will usually stop a cycle if it's given rigth). Sometimes a strong cup of coffee and three Excedrin Extra Strength tabs will abort one if you get it in time. There are still things you haven't tried.

The damn depression is the worst part of the whole thing. But, there is something that WILL work - you just have to keep trying things.

If you need to talk e-mail me and I'll give you my phone number (home and office) and we'll talk about it. i fight it every day and KNOW exactly where you are. I'm in remission right now, but don't know from one day to the next how long it will last and I still have break thru headaches at the most inopportune times, so I'm NOT CURED! Let me know if you need to talk it over. I'm always available.

Hugs BD

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by dtruett on Nov 1^st, 2002, 7:13pm

To F1World and others,
First, I AM chronic, officially diagnosed as such. Second, I absolutely realize that there are people in worse shape than me, but to be honest telling someone in sever pain that they could be in worse pain is not terribly helpful. Perhaps that is not the intent of those who wrote such. Third, if you read my long post, you will see that I have suffered through chronic ch for 17 years. Please don't tell me I am not one of those people who have coped-I have always coped. I am just reaching the end of a rope. In all of those years, I have probably missed 6 days of work, working through agony at times.
With regard to my meds, I have taken virtually, like 95% of everythng. Someone said to check out the site. As I wrote, I do my research. Go to the Survey results, and I have taken them all-all the preventatives and the abortives.
If Percocet or any narcotic dulls my pain tonight 10%, I will swallow it in an instant.
Lastly, I want to encourage anyone who has anything that they think will help from a psychological point of view to post to me. I need your company desparately right now. I would, however, appreciate it if you would refrain from trying to convert me to your religious beliefs. If it works for you, I think that is wonderful. I just happen to have a different way of looking at the universe, and I don't think this is exactly the time for conversions. Thank you all for your taking the time to help one sufferer.

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by dtruett on Nov 1^st, 2002, 7:19pm

Forgot to answer the question about others. I have a girlfriend, who lives with me (we are 52) and tries her best to understand, but doesn't always have the 100% empathy one hopes for but cannot realistically expect. I have two daughters in college. If anything keeps me going, it is that I teach 3rd grade (yes, a man) to lower income kids, many second language. I love those kids dearly, and I know that I make a big differrence in their lives, as many have home lives that are horrible. I have thought about what it would do to them to know that I had killed myself. They are what give meaning to my life.

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by jonny on Nov 1^st, 2002, 7:25pm

dtruett,

Dont be a jackass and burn your bridges before you build them. no one is trying to force there religeon on you.

You think you have it bad?.......Try 14 yrs chronic no meds and top it off with 27 yrs total chronic.

Get with the fucking program.......want help?, its here!!!!

............................jonny

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by dtruett on Nov 1^st, 2002, 7:32pm

Dear Jonny,
Thank you for your reply. Are we going to make this a message board where sufferers attack others. You make my point by calling me a name and telling me how you are worse off than me. I'm sure you are, but it's me who posted looking for help. If you don't think my headaches are serious enough to ask for help in desparation, don't answer me and don't insult me. As to religion, read the posts. I stated that I was an atheist, and I consider someone telling me that I should turn to their divine power to be soliciting. It has good intentions, but it won't help me right now. Don't make this a pissing match. I am looking for people who have empathy, not someone who wants to play "My headache is worse than your headache."

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by OneEyeBlind on Nov 1^st, 2002, 7:49pm

Ok, you are making this kinda tough. I don't understand the statement "refractive to oxygen". What does that mean. I'm not real astute at this stuff since my docs found something that worked for me right away. Also, you said that Imitrex injections work for you but that you can't get enough. There are multiple threads on this board on how to get more Imitrex. I'll try and find that info for ya and post it here. While you are fighting with your insurance company I will by happy to share some of mine with ya. Just PM me your address and I will mail them. In the meantime, the only thing I can tell you is that lack of sleep makes us not think straight. Try and hang in there. Can you share with us exactly (dosage and combo's and length of time you took them) all the meds you have tried ??? Perhaps someone on the board will have a suggestion that your neuro didn't. In the meantime, I'll say a prayer for you to get some relief. Yea, yea ... I know you don't believe in God ... but I do ... and the funny thing is ... He believes in you !!!!

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by kim on Nov 1^st, 2002, 7:50pm

Tried 95% of what's out there....Okay. But, it takes time to find the right med AT THE RIGHT DOSE. I ALSO "tried" 95% of those meds......and threw half out the window in couple days/weeks. You must be williing to work with it. And I know that you probably HATE hearing that, cuz SO DID I. But it's the only way.

What meds have you "tried"?.............Gotta start at home base.... :)

From Psychological point - what is there really? If you feel psychologicaly overwhelmed then my advice is to seek help in that fashion.
Well wishes, Kim

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by Marc on Nov 1^st, 2002, 7:52pm

I don't have time for pissing contests, but at the risk of being repetitive from my previous post:

Specifically what meds have you tried?
At what dosage?
How long?

I'm sorry, but I cannot even count the number of times I've been told that someone tried "every" medication out there onlt to find out that some crucial options were missed.

There is a HUGE amount of experience here on this board.

Trying to help, but you gotta participate too.

Marc

ps- looks like Kim posted while I was composing. I can't believe it, but we actually seem to agree on something....

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by OneEyeBlind on Nov 1^st, 2002, 7:58pm

Marc ... you should be shaking in your boots ... cause if you read my whole post I once again asked ... what meds, doage and combos !!!!! LOL .... I would be scared of thinking like me and Kim if I were you !!!!

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by Marc on Nov 1^st, 2002, 8:04pm

Your are right on both counts! I type slowly so you both posted while I was figuring out what to say :)

I guess that makes us all strange.... ;)

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by dtruett on Nov 1^st, 2002, 8:58pm

OneEyeBlind,
You're right. With all of the other stuff and all of these people willing to help, I didn't do a very good job of listing the meds. Below is what I am taking now, with an increase I got via Email from my doctor tonight:

Eskalith 450
Depakote 2000
Neurontin 4800 (I just upped my dose from 3600)
Lamictal ? Don't know how many mg. Started sample pack. 2 in AM
Prednisone 60 mg
Indocin-not using
Imitrex shot
Melatonin for sleep (hah!)

I tried Topomax to no avail. I believe refractive means it doesn't work. I liked the word. I have my medical timeline I made when I successfully sued the doctor who put me into a coma, and I will try to list the meds I used to take:
Inderal
Ergonovine
Sansert
Periactin
Lithium
Verapamil
Tofranil
Atarax
Elavil
Calan
Prozac (yes, believe it or not he testified if was for ch)
Decadron
Nardil (then coma w/Serotonin Syndrome)

Have also tried the triptans, Zomig, etc. as abortive, and will follow up on the suggestion to take them before going to bed. Thank you for trying to help me. I can't go back and see who offered me their own Imitrex, but I simply cannot believe there is anything more unselfish. I can't get your name without losing the post, but thank you!!! What a difference between reaching out like that and calling someone a "jackass (which I may be in other respects, but I truly don't believe I am being in this thread). Please, let me clear up the religion thing. I am absolutely delighted that there are those who find solace and purpose in God. In fact, I really envy you. It is just not something of which I am capable. If you ask me, as one did, to surrender myself to a higher power, this is simply not the time for me to change my religious belief structure. Please tell me how it helps you, but also give me other ways to cope.
After the negative post, I almost signed off for the night. I thought this was going to be like the message board at Stereophile, where audiophiles who like Single Ended Triode amps heap scorn on those who like electronics. Thanks for restoring my faith in the positives of the community. Don't we need to stick together? Nobody else knows what the hell we are going through.
[u][/u]

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by kim on Nov 1^st, 2002, 9:40pm

that's a long list that i am intmately familiar with.............

What do you do when you know an attack is imminent? What is the FIRST thing you DO? I refer to this as "habitual ritual"...a knee-jerk respone - so to speak - to a familiar dread....

In my experience the pain will run its course, but sometimes certain "abortives" can help out.

As Barb D said also, hot strong coffee (gotta gulp it fast) can help abort. the Excedrin Extra Strength also can be helpful, I've gulped my share and can say it does work sometimes

This "ritual" is what keeps me (and I suspect many of us) GOING. Medications are trial and error. You WILL find the right ones for you eventually. In the meantime, pay close attention to what is happening and listen to your impulses. I think that those impulses that drive us to do those "rituals" are survival instincts.... and extremely important. If you need to talk at any time please e-email me at kimskitchen529@aol.com. I will be happy to share my experiences and help in any way I can.

Well wishes.:)

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by eyes_afire on Nov 1^st, 2002, 9:40pm

Hi Dtruett. I'm not sure how high your verapamil dose was (when you tried it), but there are some here who take 480mg (or more... up to 960mg) and get relief that way. Also, some people find that the short-acting kind works better. And there are others who only get relief when combining the verapamil with the lithium.

I've gotta say, that doc who gave you the MAOI with the SSRI was a real numbskull.

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by dtruett on Nov 1^st, 2002, 10:37pm

Ah yes, the ritual. I'm not too good at that. Stupid game I play when the chs aren't quite as bad. Right now I reach for the Percocet and this weekend am ready with the Imitrex needle. Problem is when I am only "normally" bad (and by that I mean I am not having 8,9, and 10s like I am every night) I play this stupid game of least medication. I am awakened by the glimmering and run to take an overdose of acetominophen (?), figuring that it may be a 5 or 6 and that I should save the big meds for the big headaches. Insane! The other part of the ritual is at a 4 on the "Don" scale I put a towel over my head and hold it tight like my brains are going to spill out. Don't know why-just instinctual. At a 5 I take the towel for a walk. At a 7 I work the towel at tiger's pace and moan loudly and start hyperventilating. At 9 or 10 I add screaming, crying, and hitting myself. Thank you for your Email offer.
By the way, speaking of rituals, has anyone used a Chronic Pain Center to learn breathing or other techniques? I don't see how you can do it in the grips, but am curious.
I am very excited right now by the fact that it is 8:40 and the beast hasn't visited me yet. I think the distraction of reading these helpful posts has something to do with it. My intellect tells me it's still stalking me, but my emotions want to believe I have a night off!

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by Jarvis on Nov 1^st, 2002, 10:56pm

dtruet. I too am trying to exist on 2-3 hrs sleep a night for the last 3 or so weeks. Sucks dont it. I have also taken your list of meds plus over the years. It seemed in hindsight that with most of them it wasactually harder to deal with the pain as you so want them to work and expect relief that never comes. The unfortunate thing for me was that the drugs usually last longer than the pain. The PF times were harder because of the fog of drugs. I "try" to put my treatment more into the pain free times between. I take some mild stimulants to keep me alert at these times. I have developed ways in my mind to concentrate and get through the worst attacks. I can feel pain very well. But I dont let the drugs cloud my ability to cloud my pain. This is a very difficult thing to do I know. Another simple thing that I learned from someone on this board a long time ago was that certain excercises can occasionaly help to sidetrack an attack and to concentrate both on the pain to a point and breathing. Last night I reduced 2 attacks to less than 20 minutes. You must count. I do pushups on the edge of the kitchen sink at the first sighn or the instant i leap out of bed. I sure cant get on the floor. The endorphin thing or whatever it is works occasionaly, try it. More importantly for me This also makes you feel good right away after an attack. I know you gonna make it through this one same as you know. ......I have a 3rd grader at home. I sometimes think he likes his teacher more than me.

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by dtruett on Nov 2^nd, 2002, 8:01am

Thanks all,
I almost had a good night, and in a perverse way I guess I did. Went to sleep at 10:00 with that rarest of all things, a clear-feeling head. Isn't tht a wonderful feeling? Took 3 Indocin anyway as an experiment. Woke up twice ha-free and was so happy! Finally got one at 5:00 am (about a 6), unusual time for me. Am on 2 Percocet now and feel OK if I don't move my head too much. I have read of some rooutines, not pushups, but hot coffee, showers, etc. My question is: how do you do these if the pain is so intense that you absolutely can't stand still. My girlfriend wants to put a hot or cold pack on, but can't keep up with me.
I feel that your concern, love, and yes, maybe prayers helped me finally get a few hours of sleep and ward off the total feeling of hopelesness and desperation that drove me to post Thursday night. I am crying as I type this, not for the pain or the anguish, but knowing that you are there for me. I only wish that I could put a face to you, but isn't the Internet wonderful?

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by domm on Nov 2^nd, 2002, 9:05am

here's some faces -

http://pahlow.net/ch/index.htm

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by Linda_Howell on Nov 2^nd, 2002, 10:18am

I'm late in coming into this thread, but after reading your post "suicide" and all the responses, I've got to say something:

No where will you find a more caring, compassionate group of people from all over the woprld than here.

People who are willing to empathize, commiserate, listen, laugh with you. People who are willing to give out their addresses & phone numbers to a perfect stranger so they can help them. People who will gladly send their Imitrex to someone who may need it more than them. People who have spent long hard hours in compiling information for all of us to use.

As a very wise man here has said..."TAKE WHAT YOU NEED AND LEAVE THE REST"

I wish you nothing but good luck in finding the magic forumla that works for you. Linda Howell

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by Not4Hire on Nov 2^nd, 2002, 10:19am

hey dtruett.....

Quote:

Ok, you are making this kinda tough. I don't understand the statement "refractive to oxygen". What does that mean?

please make sure you are using the oxygen CORRECTLY! Here's a link that may help:

http://www.clusterheadaches.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=general;action=display;num=1035819596

Good luck and hang in!

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by BarbaraD on Nov 2^nd, 2002, 10:58am

D,
In listing your meds you didn't list any ergotomines - Cafagot, DHE-45 - These work for me better than the triptimines. They have a longer lasting effect when used - or that's been my experience.

You're supposed to be off the triptimines for 24 hours before using an ergotomine (not that that ever stopped anyone). I never could handle the imitrex, but have had really good luck with Cafagot and DHE-45 when I get hit really bad.

The DHE-45 works better if you have it IV for about 3 days every 8 hours then IM after that. Ususally will stay PF in the meantime. Of course the down side is that the stuff feels like battery acid going in, but that's better than the CH pain. The cafagot pills have to be taken with Phenergan or they'll make you throw up your guts, but they work for me. You might ask your neuro about that.

Pain meds never worked at all on me. The O2 has to be on at least 8lts to do any good with a face mask. Also you might try a head band instead of wrapping a towel. Wet one and keep it in the freezer. I keep one handy at home and at the office. Don't know if that helps, but it gives me something to do.

Honey, no one is putting you down - we just all know what you're feeling - we all go through it - no one is worse than the other - we're just all bad and we all want it to quit. A lot of us have seen each other go through these things and it's an experience to see another clusterhead have a CH. The first time I ever saw another person have one, I almost went into shock. I didn't think anyone could be as bad as me until I saw one hit someone else. That's when I realized I wasn't alone with these things.

Hang in there with us. We DO know how you feel and are trying to help you.

Hugs BD

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by pjbgravely on Nov 2^nd, 2002, 11:02am

dtruett, or Don (I hope this is right) Please Ignore the negative comments by jonny. Were not sure but he may want this board all to himself. Are you having trouble bringing up members profiles? clicking on their name should bring up their profile. You are getting a lot of good advice and support and I won't try to add to it. Just remember that a evil remark by anyone should be ignored. look to the good on the board and take the best advice and leave the rest. Too many have left the group because they were flamed. I am on a tractor group and the fights about oil are horrendous and stupid and people have left because someone else uses a different type of oil. Hope this helps, If not then ignore this post too. PJB

Jonny helped me with this post.

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by Jabeen on Nov 2^nd, 2002, 11:09am

Theres certainly been a lot of reaction to this subject...I am throwing inmy own 2 cents.
When I start to feel sorry for myself (and my situation is mild comparatively speaking) I think about those who are worse off than me. It may seem a bit simplistic, but everyone carries a "cross" or 2 in life (no religious reference intended) I have had my share and I didn't get this thing until I was 47. I have friends with terminal cancer, ALS, MS, whatever...if I had to choose a "disease", I would choose this over those.
Also-I know you have tried a lot, after many unsuccessful meds-Wellbutrin did work for me. (SSRI) I have read a lot here and we all know what works for one, doesn't work for the other...but it did take weeks of dosage upages (is that a word?) and adjustments before it worked.
I do not see suicide as an answer to anything...hang in there-
Jabeen

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by dtruett on Nov 2^nd, 2002, 12:05pm

Thanks again. My name is Don Truett. I am 52 and live in Ramona, Calif., outside of San Diego.
•Domm, thanks for the faces link. I sent a pic of my woman and me under Don T/Denise to be posted
•Linda, the quote couldn't be better. I sent private Emails to some ot the people who were so kind thanking them and expressing how they renewed my faith in the human spirit
•Not4Hire, thanks. I have tried oxygen 3 or 4 times with rebreathers under strict directions. I will check again w/ my neuro on dose. I see in the Survery results that it doesn't help everyone, and unfortunately I may be one of those
•Barb, thanks for the tip on the headband. I am looking for that kind of advice-not just meds, but the routines mentioned in an earlier post that while they may not prevent the ha, may shorten it or make it easier to bear
•pjbgravely-thank you for your support. Flaming sucks and sucks big time when someone is so at their wit's end as to post with the "S" word. I just couldn't believe that kind of response here. I have been thinking this morning about sending the person a private Email expressing my thoughts in language I would not use in this forum, but I realized it would bring me down to their level, and I thought he did a pretty good job of exposing hiimself for the kind of human being he is in front of thousands of his so-called peers, although I would not call him a peer to the magnificent people I find here. I almost shut down the computer and decided not to read anymore, but realized this is one person and am so glad I didn't give up on everyone.
•To all, thank you for continuing to respond. I take so much comfort in the continuation of this dialogue. I know this sounds stupid, but I have had this dread of coming back after a couple of hours to discover that nobody else has chipped in-end of thread. I know this will happen eventually, but for the moment it is what I am living for. After the Percocet-aborted ch at 5am, I have had the "headache hangover," the dull ache we all know and love, but at leas acetomenophin helps.
One last thought. I know the religion thing has come up too much, which is my fault. Aren't we in many ways similar to a church? No, I don't mean to be sacreligious in any way, but a church is a community of people, firm (hopefully) in their moral and ethical grounding, brought together with a common reason and guided by compassion? Seems to fit you all pretty well!!!
To all, thank you from my heart for continuing to respond.

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by OneEyeBlind on Nov 2^nd, 2002, 12:18pm

This is a pretty awsome group of people that step up to the plate to help fellow sufferers. As you try some of the suggestions you have gotten here let us know how they work for you. Some of these people are sooooo smart when it comes to the meds, they are better than most neuro's you can find. Jonny is our resident O2 expert and gets cranky once in awhile but has a lot to offer as well. Lots of sharing and lots of caring. Hope today is better for ya !!!

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by jonny on Nov 2^nd, 2002, 12:30pm

on 11/02/02 at 11:02:45, pjbgravely wrote:

dtruett, or Don (I hope this is right) Please Ignore the negative comments by jonney. Were not sure but he may want this board all to himself. Are you having trouble bringing up members profiles? clicking on thier name should bring up thier profile. You are getting a lot of good advice and support and I won't try to add to it. Just remember that a evil remark by anyone should be ignored. look to the good on the board and take the best advice and leave the rest. Too many have left the group becouse they were flamed. I am on a tractor group and the fights about oil are horrendous and stupid and peaple have left becouse someone else uses a diffrent type of oil. Hope this helps, If not then ignore this post too. PJB

Excuse me, PJ!

If you insist on putting my name in your post you could at least spell it right, as a matter of fact you might want to spell half the words right.

.............................jonny

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by kim on Nov 2^nd, 2002, 1:11pm

About the chronic pain centers - I tried one. the center had a regular doc, a massage therapist and a bio feedback guy. The doc wrote me a triple scrip for pain meds ::) He actually took out a medical book during our consultation.....um, the message therapist was a woman about my age and she asked me did I ever try Cocaine.....and - um the bio feedback guy TRIED to help, but it was a bust...........PLUS, it cost a ton of beans that was not covered by insurance. I remember the afternoon that I walked outa there for good. I was extremely pissed off and disallusioned. This is not meant to sway your opinion. This was just my experience. Those people made a ton of money off my pain and did not help me at all. So, I am somewhat Jaded in my view of "pain management" and subsequent personnel.....

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by pjbgravely on Nov 2^nd, 2002, 4:01pm

Jonny, Sorry I added your name, I realize I wouldn't have to because everyone knows who you are. I reran it through spell check for you.

Don , You are right that this thread will end soon. Post again about any questions you may have that you can't find by researching (that's a warning) . Use e-mail and PM to your new friends if you think it might upset others. Another warning, at the end of threads members can get off track and silly, It's a lot of fun and don't forget, a lot of us are in a lot of pain. PJB

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by Margi on Nov 2^nd, 2002, 4:31pm

Don, I'm sorry you're going through Cluster Hell right now. We've all walked in your shoes, sufferers and supporters alike. You've gotten some good advice here and, as Charlie says, a good 'love bombing' in recognition of a fellow clusterhead who's running out of rope.
We are a community here, and I know it's hard upon arrival to figure everyone out. Please don't use first impressions to really judge anyone yet, though, ok? Rest assured that if you throw stones, you'll get them thrown right back at you. We're not exactly a Happy Days kind of family here all the time.
I've proud to say I've met Jonny in person and have known him him for the full three years he's been a resident in Clusteropolis. We used to call him our pit bull. But you say you are amazed that folks have offered their imitrex to you? Well, Jonny goes way beyond that in what he does behind the scenes to help clusterheads -- take for example what he just did for me and my husband. Long story short, they both use welders oxygen to abort attacks. We don't have a regulator on our tank. Jonny does and told my husband that he knows where to get one made and what it costs. So I sent him a cheque for the equivalent of getting this in the works and asked if he would mind sending one to us.
Today, in my email, Jonny sent me a picture. It was a picture of my cheque. In little tiny pieces. With the note that the regulator will be ready on Monday.
Jonny is typical of a lot of clusterhead families here. We'd all do anything for each other, if it means it might a difference in someone's ability to battle the beast. As another clustergal, Piper, says... it's how we do.

so, officially - welcome to Clusteropolis. Sometimes when I sit down to the board in the morning, I feel like I should be strapping on a seat belt - we do have bumpy rides sometimes. But you won't find a group of more caring and selfless individuals. I can guaran-flippin-tee ya that.

So, as Jonny says...grab an oar and start paddling, Don. ;)

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by jonny on Nov 2^nd, 2002, 5:36pm

on 11/02/02 at 16:01:36, pjbgravely wrote:

Jonny, Sorry I added your name, I realize I wouldn't have to because everyone knows who you are. I reran it through spell check for you.

Damn right everyone knows my name.

Been here for over three years giving.

What say you, Jackass?

..........................jonny

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by Ree on Nov 2^nd, 2002, 6:32pm

the "God Freak" speaks ( one of my best friends here called me that the other night ) as an Atheist you dont believe in A God... But MY God whether you believe in HIM or NOT believes in you...and is working small miracles in this group everyday... So I will pray for you to MY God... and you should hope that you are wrong about HIM~~ I could cut you a deal... feel better dtruett
and stop arguing with jonny you wont win... Ree

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by pjbgravely on Nov 2^nd, 2002, 6:34pm

Margi, Thanks for telling everyone what ***** has done for you and others, It's hard not to overreact when someone is suffering and then gets called names. It's also hard to remember there is good in someone when all you see is the bad.
PJB

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by David Shea on Nov 2^nd, 2002, 6:39pm

D. Truett-- In regards to the post you found so absurd.
Consider the possibility of one takeing your post as absurd. There are many types of motivation.
"Sucide Head Aches" ! all hear are familiar with that lable. I have been studying at this site a short time longer than you have, And reading these post. I think
it safe to say,If you ask here of the good people who post why they post. most answers would be to help others cope. I feel they have been susessful in doing just this, And in fact have probably turn more than one person from these thoughts. One statement from A post
such as yours could turn that around, And again enter
it in someones train of though. If this one person is know longer copeing. People in this family have failed.
May I ask you now what your thoughts are on this topic
Have they failed? Will you be able to tell these people
I'm sorry,I cannot cope.
Some good news for you is this, We all who have study
here to help our self learn how to survive with this curse
have learn this.
A episodic sufferer often turns chronic, A cronic sufferer
often turns episodic. Perhaps you have in fact turned
episodic.... One head ache a day and a 2yr. hatius.
It is safe to say you have, congradulations..
Be strong on this message board, Try not to introduce
this weak, give up, sorry for myself attitude hear. The Lord above knows we all feel that when we are alone
in our private hell. Have you notice all the smiles above
and added to these replys. This is what its about here.
Hope you are feeling better, And praying for your pain
free days. As I am for all here.
David Shea

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by jonny on Nov 2^nd, 2002, 6:50pm

LMAO.......PJ,

If you want to whine and cry go the fuck home and do it.

What is it that you love about me?......wheres my pic?

........................jonny

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by Charlie on Nov 2^nd, 2002, 7:28pm

It's a puzzlement.

People say they lurk before posting. I did, and I got a pretty good idea of the temperament of this board. I think I understood Jonny well enough to realize he doesn't pull punches. Maybe it's just that it was easier to get to know us on the old board. Jonny was here long before most of us. Somehow we survived contact with him and get along fine. Give us and yourselves a chance. He'll help in ways newbies cannot imagine.

Charlie

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by kim on Nov 2^nd, 2002, 8:15pm

That Charlie knows what of he speaks....YUP.

Crash landed meself! LOL, and we all know what happens THEN.... :D

Anyhow, (scuze me - jambalya for din din ;D) um, where was I - OH yeah, I forgot. ::)

Jonny, if you ever went away where would we be? Lost, I tink :-* Or was that Toot? :D Shheeeeeez. I gotta get outa the kitchen - that mira qua is KILLIN US ;)

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by dtruett on Nov 2^nd, 2002, 11:43pm

David Shea wrote, "In regards to the post you found so absurd.Consider the possibility of one takeing your post as absurd." David, I have no idea what you are talking about. Admittedly there were a lot of posts and there is no "Find" function, but I don't believe I used the word "absurd" anywhere. If you are saying that thinking of ending your life is absurd, I agree on one level, but that is where I was. I think you will see that I have been nothing but respectful and grateful in my postings. If your question is what is the outcome of all of this on me, I have a hope today that is so far from my suicidal feelings Thurs. night that you could drive a truck between them. That is because of this group and their support. It sounds as though you resent my having asked for help. Well, I don't apologize for doing so. Maybe I misread your post, but this is the only place I could turn and it worked!
Margi, as to Jonny, I take you at your word for what he has done behind the scenes. I, however, don't think he gives a rat's ass about me. I wish him all the luck with his own headaches, however. I am not in the mood to be bitter.
Thanks again to all. I had a good day today, although I await the demon of the night with trepidation.

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by David Shea on Nov 3^rd, 2002, 12:51am

Hi dtruett
Many mix emotions on this issue. Maybe you have misinterpreted my post. No resentment at all. Just fliping the coin. I'm happy the support you sought at the MB worked for you. I belive that was D.J"s intent.
Happy to hear also your doing well today. I cannot say
the same as this night has proved to be a repeat of the last 2wks.
Best to you. Wishing you pfdn
David

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by jonny on Nov 3^rd, 2002, 1:39am

on 11/02/02 at 23:43:07, dtruett wrote:

Margi, as to Jonny, I take you at your word for what he has done behind the scenes. I, however, don't think he gives a rat's ass about me.

WAH!!!!!.........Get over yourself.

I care about everyone in this family and yes, even you.

.................................jonny

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by dtruett on Nov 3^rd, 2002, 1:54am

Jonny,
I don't want to and won't respond to your provocations, such as calling me a "jackass" and telling me to "get over myself." Why you do this I don't know and won't try to fathom. I would like, however to have a rational dialogue with you about oxygen. I understand you are expert iin this. I have tried before with no luck, but perhaps there is something the doctor is not aware of. I know that there are posts and research, but if you can help me with this, either by posting or Emailing me privately I would appreciate it. Thank you.
Don Truett

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by jonny on Nov 3^rd, 2002, 2:35am

Actually, I called PJ a jackass but I did tell you to get over yourself.....LOL

Im all ears Bro, drop me an e-mail with any questions.

02 king I am not but because of the 02 kings on this board it not only helps me abort HA's im able to teach others how to.

.............................jonny

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by NotH20 on Nov 3^rd, 2002, 8:36am

DTruett - you seem to have come a LONG want since my last post on this thread. I am SO happy for you that things may have turned around - even if it's only for a little bit of time. I love my CH family and sometimes they are there for us to understand our feelings, give us suggestions and lend their helping hand. Other times they are they to give us a swift kick in the ass.....but we are all in this boat together.

You may want to get your girlfriend on the Supporter's section of this message board. She may be able to get some idea's of support from others in her situation. And if nothing else, she too will know that she is not alone with her feelings of frustration.

You mentioned Prednisone at 60 mgs, but you didn't mention if you were currently taking that med. If not, maybe you could get some prescribed for a little "prednisone holiday" and get a little bit more relief and a little bit more sleep at night.

One last thing - I've been out of cycle since January yet I continue to get ALL my meds refilled every chance I can. With the insurance restrictions I try to keep a full stock even out of cycle. If you need some, send me an instant message and I'll see what I can do for you. I am happy to share with those in more need.......

No one has mentioned the Imitrex Tip on the left hand side - that may be a way of you extending your medication through several ch's.

Keep us posted on your progress and let me know about the meds...

Mia

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by dtruett on Nov 3^rd, 2002, 9:28am

Dear NotH2O,
I have indeed come a VERY, VERY, LONG way since I first posted. At the risk of being sentimental and repititious, I am just overwhelmed by the love and support I have gotten. With all of these ch members and sufferers, to have so many people reaching out to just me is incredible. I feel tht this is almost selfish, but I was just in such a horrible space. Peiople are Emailing me privately with web links, sending encouragement, and yes, mailing me Imitrex while I deal with the insurance. I had 2 chs last night and one hour of sleep, yet as I type this I am full of hope and somehow, life seems good. Thirty six hours ago I never would have believed this was possible. I think I have even made peace with Jonny and kinda get the idea of where he is coming from. He has indicated a willingness to help me and I am most appreciative.
I have bugged my girlfriend, with whom I live and who has to suffer through the helplessness of watching me take my towel for a walk moaning and screaming and waking her up to go to the Support Group. For some reason she has been hesitant, perhaps because she isn't a natural on the computer and has never seen a message board, but she promises to do so today. Nothing she could do could be more valuable to me.
As to Prednisone, I have to correspond with my neuro by Email, as he is good and booked a month ahead. He is great, however, at answering Email withing 24 hours. I upped my own dosge from 60mg once/day to 60mg bid-120/day. Over my 17 yrs with this, Pred usually gives me the knockout punch for a while, but not now. Am tapering over a 3 day period. Taking a lithium level this week to increase my Eskalith from 450mg/day. Lithium has helped in the past. If you look at the post where I detail my current meds, I am taking so many that I wonder if some are decreasing the efficacy of others.
As to the Imitrex dose on the left side, I was directed to a page that discusses this, but couldn't figure out what that meant. For the moment, since I seem to be one of the "lucky" ones (hard to believe) who has only 2/3 multiples a night, one shot seems OK in terms of side effects and efficacy, and is simpler while I learn the routine. Any advice though, on or off the board would be appreciated.
Finally, and I apologize for the lenght of my posts (I have an English credential and should know about brevity) I don't know about instant messaging. I am not on AOL-use Cox High Speed cable modem, which is a good investment. Have also had trouble getting into the Chat Room. Maybe I'm on too late-about midnight-but either nobody else is there or nobody responds to me when I type a message and hit the "Enter" key.
Thanks for your concern. If I could do it again, I might change my little saying from "Maybe this is the last one," which is what gets me by (yeah, right it is, but ya gotta believe) to Blance Dubois' "I have always depended on the kindness of strangers." Hope I got that right. I KNOW now that if I didn't someone will correct me.
Thank you all for turning my outlook around 180 degrees. If there is anyone reading this who is feeling anywhere near the way I felt, look at what is here. Feel the love like I do. What mrore can we ask for (beside that medical breakthrough we are all waiting for)? Bless you all!!!!!!!!! :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by NotH20 on Nov 3^rd, 2002, 5:02pm

Hey DTruett - did I hear you say BLESS YOU ALL? As in GOD bless you all ??? (just kidding - just figured we changed you 180 degrees on your outlook so maybe we could flip you to the side of the higher power too) ;)

I'm sorry I said instant message in my earlier post. I actually meant to send me a private message. Or you are more than welcome to email me at NotH20@aol.com if that works better for you. Don't feel bad about the computer - hell I can't even work any of the tool bars above - just the smiley faces :-[ Well maybe one day I'll get the hang of it.

As for your girlfriend - she may just have a fear of the unknown.....maybe you could sit with her and go over some of the boards with her. Maybe you two could flip roles for a few mins and you be her supporter on this board...just an idea :)

Lastely - I never had a single doubt in my mind that we could pull you around. This group is head strong, helpful, insightful and genuinly concerned for their fellow ch'er. You came to the right place and we're glad you are here with us.

Keep up the good work and good luck w/ the emails to your doc.....

NotH20

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by RevDeFord on Nov 3^rd, 2002, 9:09pm

First, let me tell you where I am coming from in the hopes to help you out.....

I have tried 2 times to committ suicide earlier in my life - both times was not cluster related. However, before I knew what these things were, I seriously contemplated suicide because I thought I was defective or was going crazy.....coming from a family with a medical background, as they said - headaches just don't come and go like that. Then I had one while at the mall one day and ran over to the local doc in the box clinic by the mall. The guy there knew exactly what I had, diagnosed me, told me that this was a serious condition and that as many as 80% of those who have ch commit suicide or attempt to. You have no idea what this diagnosis did for me. Finally somone who understands me. Who understands that this malady is real and not just in my head. My outlook greatly improved.

You have people here, including me, who know exactly what you are going through. The pain, the questions, the anger, the sleep depravity, and yes, the thoughts of suicide.

Now let me tell you some other things that help me. Number one, as my name signifies, I am a preacher. I am not trying to convert you, but in an effort to understand my motivation, I want to share something with you. I don't know why God allows such pain to exist. But you need to know, that it is not just you who choose not to acknowledge him, but it is me who walks with Him day in and day out. Some times I get angry at Him. I ask - Why me? Haven't I been faithful enough? And then I see other folk that are hurting and I see that I am in a position to give encouragement that I would not be able to give if I did not have this crud.

Here are some practical things besides meds that help me...

Believe it or not, when I get a CH, the first thing I want aside from O2 is a big ol bag of frozen peas.....don't know that I experience a great deal of relief from it, but it does take my mind off the pain a little.

Secondly, when I start thinking about this whole thing just aint worth it, I remember the people who have heard me preach - they are looking at me and the example that I set. Now, you may not be able to say that people who have heard you preach depend on you, but I guarantee that you can say that your girlfriend and your family depend on you. Suicide is just not an option......

Lastly, I am extremely competitive. People who know me know that I always have to be right, I always have to be on top, and I always have to have the last word in an arguement. So, I take that competitive nature and translate it to the demon. I picture that the demon is a real dude trying to pound my head in. Committing suicide is not an option because I don't want to give that sorry sucker the victory. I am determined to kick the living crap out of it, even if I lose a limb in the process. So when I get a CH now, I get angry. I try not to yell so I don't wake up my family, but I get down right angry. And yes, I probably say some things I shouldn't.

Also, my wife is great. She got on the CH board and read about what these things are. She knows they are serious. And even though I leave the room so as not to wake her, she is always understanding of me. That makes dealing with the demon so much easier. She can't fix them, but she does understand.

I hope I have been and encouragement to you.

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by dtruett on Nov 3^rd, 2002, 9:57pm

Dear RevDeFord,
Frozen peas??? Well, LOL......Just wanted to use LOL, since I first learned what it means today. I know you're serious. My beliefs predate my headaches by many years and have nothing to do with them. I guess I never should have mentioned my atheism-its like passing gas in an elevator these days.I do appreciate those who disagree and especially those who pray for me. No harm in that. Competetive spirit? I was a professional golfer, who went through UCLA on a golf scholarship and was All-American the last two years. I would try to compete with you at anything.
I agree getting angry with these things is better than letting them overwhelm you, as I did the other night. As to suicide not being an option, it is not one for me right now. Let's leave it at that. I appreciate your input and it sounds as though your parishoners are lucky to have you. By the way, if you take forever and go back to one of my earlier posts, you will see that I teach third grade and HAVE thought about the difference I make in their lives and how they would feel if I were gone.

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by Charlie on Nov 3^rd, 2002, 10:20pm

Not a problem being an atheist. I grew up that way. It's also important to let people know that atheism does not mean: Anti-theist. It's a common mistake.

Charlie

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by David Shea on Nov 4^th, 2002, 12:10am

HI DTruett-- Just wanted to say hello, See how your feeling today or tonight I should say. Myself I'm getting
bombarded with ha's.... No sleep, The one thing going
for me is the duration and intensity, 30mins. around
kip 7, I guess.
I'm an advid golfer, and played alot in the R.I. MASS.
AERA. handicap is at 5 now do to long periods overseas.
Where were you playing at? Were you club Pro?
Hopeing your PF,
David

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by Linda_Howell on Nov 4^th, 2002, 12:49am

Lemme-see???? As of this writing your post has been:

Read 890 times

it is now on page 2

I'd say that for someone who is an Atheist......

you sure seem to have a whole bunch of people who DO believe, rooting for ya and are so very happy they could help you. Linda Howell

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by Peppermint on Nov 4^th, 2002, 9:37am

wow ... there sure is a lot of love in here...you are some beautiful people..

just my two cents... glad you're soaking it up dtruett...;)

Peppermint

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by Charlie on Nov 4^th, 2002, 5:18pm

Yer right, Pep. We atheists, druids, pagans and mystics are welcome. Golfers: just barely ::)

It's time for another thread for Ted and me to latch on to. We're here collectiing quotes with nowhere to go. PLEASE :P :D

It will be yer fault Linda :o

Mean old Charlie 8)

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by BobG on Nov 4^th, 2002, 5:31pm

I wish this whole string would cease to be and disappear.

I have never seen any proof that Clusterheads commit suicide any more than any other segment of the population.

Why are clusters called suicide headaches? Damned if I know.

But I do know that everytime the word suicide comes up the message board goes into a spasm and the threads go on forever and nothing is ever accomplished.

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by Drk^Angel on Nov 4^th, 2002, 5:39pm

Stop whining BobG and grab an oar... You're doin' a lot of stroking, but without an oar, it's not getting ya nowhere. ;D

PFDAN................................. Drk^Angel

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by RevDeFord on Nov 4^th, 2002, 5:47pm

Bob, don't mean to be a jerk, because you totally know it is not even in the slightest in my nature to be one, but if you don't like it, don't read the post. Sometimes I need encouragement.....sometimes others.

'nuff said.

;D

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by Charlie on Nov 4^th, 2002, 6:01pm

In other words, Bob, yer saying:

http://www.headachesupportgroups.com/echat43/suxsmilie.gif

Charlie got himself a new smilie ::)

Charlie

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by jonny on Nov 4^th, 2002, 6:11pm

Touche'......... Charlie!!!!

..............................jonny

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by RevDeFord on Nov 4^th, 2002, 6:49pm

cool smiley. :o

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by Jackie on Nov 4^th, 2002, 7:03pm

IMHO this has been a good thread... :D
We certainly have covered some territory....from medications to nonmedical treatments to psychology to personalities to religion to thought process to coping to horse's ass to rat's ass and on and on it goes..... ;D

In the final analysis you all helped a fellow clusterhead and that's what it's really all about.... :-*

Jacks 8)

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by dtruett on Nov 4^th, 2002, 7:43pm

Yeah, Jackie, it really has covered a lot of ground. I said earlier that I feel some guilt at getting this much attention, but frankly I needed it. I really was wondering if life was worth living in this amunt of pain. I knew there were others worse off, but framkly that did not comfort me. I did not put up the "S" word to see how many posts I could get, as I am new and had no idea how this thing worked anyway. I went to the Chat Room first and couldn't hook up there. In desparation I thought if I posted, maybe a half dozen people would respond. Needless to say, and I have alreaady said it, I was and am overwhelmed. I feel empowered by the love of MY GROUP, whether it is in the form of prayers, well wishers, or Imitrex in the mail. I feel that I have come to a home I never knew existed. If this is too sentimental for some, sorry, but it's how I'm feeling right now and it's a whole lot better than I felt 48 hours ago!!!!
:D :D :o

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by OneEyeBlind on Nov 4^th, 2002, 7:45pm

Gotta go with Jacks on this one .... we accomplished a lot here. A fellow sufferer no longer feels alone. And that in itself is worth a million !!!!! Hope if any of you guys ever get to where this guy was at ... you get the same response. Love ya all !!!!

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by pjbgravely on Nov 4^th, 2002, 10:20pm

Yes I agree this has been a great thread, It is always good to see someone go from the bottom to his head above water. This group can really come together when it needs too.
Don T, if you were here a few weeks ago you might have thought we were all crazy. We lost some good members becouse they couldn't seem to take another persons opinion. You have stayed though you were insulted and reaped a great harvest. I don't see how a true CHer could leave this place without remorse and I hope you stay to help others when you come to your PF time.
PFDAN PJB

I didn't feel like spell checking so someone will have to do it for me.

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by dtruett on Nov 5^th, 2002, 12:58am

Dear pjbGravely,
Some day the PFDAN will come. As I type, I am on the downside of a 7. Used some advice here and tried a frozen towel on the head and tried to concentrate on making blood flow to the hands. Hard to tell if that one worked, but it seemed shorter than the rest. No way I leave this group over someone's opinion. I don't know if Jonny wants to hear this or not, but I think his "shock" style may have had its value in addition to the "softer" advice. He was timely in returning my Emails for advice on oxygen and I appreciate it. I will not go away, PF or not. I am here to stay. I just hope that someday I can return the love and support that I have gotten.
"[/i]I get by with a little help from my friends
Yes, I'm gonna try with a little help from my friends.[i]
Special thanks to OneEyeBlind & Jackie for their "offline" help ;D ;D
;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by Charlie on Nov 5^th, 2002, 5:52am

Keep trying the circulatory thing. It just may be that you have the right idea. I need you and others to tell me I'm not bananas. ::)

Nice post and we can't ask for much more http://www.headachesupportgroups.com/echat43/toothysmile2.gif

Charlie 8)

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by Jackie on Nov 5^th, 2002, 7:20am

PJ,

After reviewing several of your posts I have come to the following conclusion:

You apparently have a fixation when it comes to
"illustrated men". (please review all the definitions
of fixation... :))

Is this fixation with all "illustrated men" or only one in
particular? ???

Jacks 8)

Oh.....one more observation.... I notice from your profile that you are located in Jonnyville. Hmmmmmmmm ::)

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by dtruett on Nov 5^th, 2002, 7:36am

Dear Charlie,
The very cold headband gives an interesting shock to a wider area of the head than just the supraorbital region, not that it makes the site pain go away. Trying to will the circulation to change is interesting for someone who isn't good at that stuff, but...it seems to take some of the focus away from suffering and into trying to direct the mind usefully. It seemed to keep the hyperventilation down and for some reason I don't know, I statrted talking to myself, "Blood flow, you can do it, OK, blood flow." Stuff like that you wouldn't want on videotape. Of course, I did go to one Percocet (vs. two) at the point where I new it was going to be serious, so the above may be speculation. I have also discovered that with me, Percocet keeps me awake most of the rest of the night. I have this reaction to the normally sedative benzodiazapines (?), so it may just be me. I'll still trade sleep for PF, but I'm living the Imitrex life instead soon. Thanks for your offline Email you blasphemous, commie, subversive!
8) 8) 8) 8)

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by catlind on Nov 5^th, 2002, 7:50am

D,

I'm late in replying to this post, I've been trying to catch up on the board.

1. Athiesm means without theism, without god and that's all.

2. Charlie's signature block says when you come to the end of your rope, tie a knot and hang on.

3. Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem, even if you are chronic. This group of people and the OUCH organization are making headway in helping to educate and inform the public and medical community, knowledge is power, and we are too stubborn of a group to not gain some serious power.

4. Jonny is the meanest, hardass, loving, caring contradiction of a person you will find ;) He knows what he is talking about, when he gives you facts on CH, listen, and as he says, grab and oar and start rowing.

5. Try frozen peas (or any other frozen veggie) strapped to your head with anything from string to whatever works. Get yourself a few Gel masks and stick them in the freezer. Sit in your car and turn the AC on and put your face in front of it. Have your g/f drive you around and stick your head out the window, drink a hot black coffee, try Charlies method from Dr. Wright, drink lots of water, do jumping jacks, put hot sauce under your tongue....these are a few of the tips and tricks that I have learned from the people on this board.

6. Clusterville is the most caring compassionate family in the world as far as I'm concerned. And like all families, we have fights, disagreements, and would bend over backwards and turn into a pretzel to help each other ... even those we fight with.

7. I am on Celexa as a preventative, and am actually having pretty good luck with it, there was a post awhile back on the med board about baclofen that I took to my doc and I used it, and it did help a bit, but we haven't tested it on a regular basis. I am in a position where heart concerns don't allow use of alot of the meds that help most people here, I use O2 8-15lpm with a NON rebreather mask and I make sure that both holes are covered so it's pure oxygen. I'm sure the link in a post above covered all that.

8. I have been instructed by the neuro that the only thing for me right now is the celexa O2 and narcotics to take the edge off. NARCOTICS DO NOT ABORT CH'S, all they can do is take the edge off, and at that, they take a long time to work.

9. Try anything and everything you can think of, I've even gone and bought the capsaicin cream and rubbed it on my head to see if it worked....there is a clinical trial going on right now with a capsaicin based spray that some of our members are part of...there is ongoing research, sooner or later you will find the combination of meds that work for you. Remember, it may not be any one med, but a required combo.

10. Slammy are you convinced it's the real cat yet? ;)

Welcome aboard and hope you find some benefit from our family here that puts the fun in dysFUNctional ;)

Cat

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by Drk^Angel on Nov 5^th, 2002, 11:40am

Charlie... You're not bananas... But you may be apples, or possibly peanuts.

PFDAN................................. Drk^Angel

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by oringkid on Nov 5^th, 2002, 2:17pm

D, Welcome (belatedly, sorry) to the board. I have a few things I would like to say.

When you are truly contemplating suicide, you get to a place in your head where you feel nothing. Jonny's words made you angry. Anger is a feeling. Bet you, that that anger helped you turn away from those suicidal feelings. Just a thought. BTW, Jonny is one of the best here. Stick around and you will find that out. (he don't take no sheet though LOL!)

I to am atheistic in nature. So I will not be praying for you but hope that my brand of support will help you nonetheless.

I have been dealing with this, as an episodic for about 29 years, mostly non-medicated. I don't suffer as badly as some, but it is still the worst pain I have ever gone through. I once tried to kill myself (not related to ch though) and once I got over that, I realized that had I done it, I would have missed soooo much.

My way of dealing with that feeling that ending it all would help is that I am an intensely curious person. I don't want to miss anything! (probably one of the things that keeps me coming to this board day after day LOL!)

As for practical measures, I use distraction as much as possible to deal with the pain. Ice is my main distraction. I have 2 ACE bandages that have a gel pack in them that I keep in the freezer at all times. The cool thing about these particular gel packs it that because they are made in an ace bandage, you can wrap them around your head or where ever you need it and it will stay!
I have found (through ideas and suggestions on this board) that if I put the frozen gel pack on the bottoms of my feet at the onset of an attack, it will sometimes abort the attack. If not, I add the other gel pack to my head. I keep moving it from place to place and it SEEMS to help relieve the pain for a couple of seconds at a time and even though that doesn't seem like much, it can really help you get through the pain. I also try to keep my mind VERY active for as long as I can. I will play word games on the computer till I can't see or concentrate, which for me is up to about a kip 8. If it gets to kip 8 or higher, I just cope the best I can. I rock alot. Sometimes I will get in the bed (or when I wake with one) and roll my head back and forth rhythmically, (the worse the pain the harder I roll) or get on hands and knees and rock forward and backward with head on bed (kinda like getting ready to do a somersault without actually going over) I have had some success with putting a drop of tabasco in my nose on the ch side. It may be the burning that is a distraction that makes me feel it helps.

I think Charlies technique could be helpful. I am going to try it (practicing now out of cycle) for my next cycle and I am going to try O2.

I am glad to hear that you are feeling so much better now. I think alot here become very upset about hearing of someone contemplating suicide because it is something that we think about. I don't think too many have really done it, and I think the name came about because of so many of us THINKING about it, probably mentioning it to doctors and family. I know that I have begged to die more than once, but, in reality, I did not want to die, I just wanted the pain to go away!!

But another thing that keep me sane with this stuff is knowing that each attack will go away in 2 hours or less. I also know it won't kill me, and doesn't cause brain damage (at least that is what they tell me.... I think the jury is still out on that one! LOL)

So, Welcome again. This place and these people will forever change your life. I think it will be for the better.

Sherry

ps: Oh yeah! and the hot black coffee! definitely part of my ritual. the hot black coffee at onset will abort some attacks and the heat in my mouth (hitting that upper palate) seems to sooth.

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by pjbgravely on Nov 5^th, 2002, 3:32pm

Jacks, You are right, I have promised to leave ***** alone for a while. *****ville was from a while ago when Bill the Cat was having some fun. This should bring a good response. PJB

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by dtruett on Nov 7^th, 2002, 4:29am

As this thread seems to be dying a natural, as opposed to suicidal, death, I must post one last thing. This is an Email I received Tuesday and got the author’s permission to post today. I have edited out a snippet of his only, and only include my reply because it shows what you have all done for me mentally as I have continued to slide downhill physically. I am sorry for the length, but after hitting the "Reply" button, I am not ashamed to say that I stepped out on my porch and tears swept over me in droves from the emotions of this whole experience. To be told that it helped another was and is overwhelming..
Don Truett

Don,
I've been watching your Thread, and all the posts since your first. I, too, am 52. I've gone through much the same as you, but I was always an episodic, and now it seems I'm a chronic. I wanted to reach out to you but couldn't for the life of me find anything I could say that would have helped. I did not want to live anymore. I was so tired of it all. So I watched, and read, and saw what they offered. And maybe I'll stay around for a while longer. Some of the posts seem so off the wall, but most of them are so generous, I can't criticize. Except for the good-hearted guy who doesn't believe the reason they are called "suicide headaches. I know this sounds weird, but thanks for your post. You, and the others helped me when I didn't think there was any help to be had.

Sonny

Sonny,
God, what an Email. I am so moved by what you wrote. Yes, it's absurd to not acknowledge that a pain that is unrelenting, that stalks you all the time might drive one to consider whether that quality of life is worth having. Of course it's something we consider – then reject!! When I posted, I was at such a weak point - I didn't know where to turn. I knew no one else personally with ch, and who the hell can you relate to or who can relate to you without having been there. Our loved ones see us, but they can't get inside us (which is decidedly a good thing). What I learned is that there is a group of people who will do ANYTHING to help a fellow clusterhead. Someone wrote a post upbraiding me for mentioning the "S" word. He thought it might lead to do something contrary to what other people on the board have accomplished, helping sufferers to cope. I was shocked, thinking that I was doing the opposite, although frankly, when I posted, I was thinking only of myself I replied privately but have not included it here
You use the past tense, "Did not want to live," "Was so tired of it all." I take this as a VERY GOOD SIGN. After that person posted, I thought, "Oh, shit, am I going to really be responsible for someone offing themselves because I brought it up? And then you tell me that the others and I helped you when you too didn't think there was any help or hope? Thank God (and yes, I am still an atheist, but this time I am going to thank God anyway)!!!
Sonny, I know this sounds idiotic, but I have a reason to keep struggling beyond the incredible generosity, humanity, and courage I have seen in this group. The reason is this: these people put their hearts and souls into trying to reach out to me in my time of need. What an injustice, what a disservice would I be doing to give up on myself now when they have done this for me? How would I be thought of? Quitter! Wimp! Someone who never should have visited them in the first place. I am resolute right now. Although I am in daily pain, my attitude towards it has changed completely! I will not be overcome by it! I will never give in to it! I will be strong!!!
Finally, allow me to say this. Having said the above, I know from very recent experience that there are times when it just doesn't seem worth going on. This is part of the human condition. If something so solid as a rock can be worn down to a grain of sand by water, so is our psyche eroded after awhile. The only thing we can do is keeping our guard up. I would like you to do 2 things for me:

1. Promise me that you will call me ANYTIME 7/24 if you feel like talking, even if it is not about the "S" thing. I will be happy to talk about anything or continue this conversation via Email. My numbers are (Pacific Time):
cell phone (760) 803-9784
home phone (760) 788-9784
These numbers are for anyone reading this post to use at any time for any reason.

2. Post the Email you just sent me to the message board. I think it is incredibly inspiring, and if you and I have thought about this, there are others who would benefit from the thoughts you expressed.

If you will not post it, will you allow me to? Thank you soooo much for writing. You can never know what the idea of helping someone else after all of the help I have gotten means to me.

Don Truett

p.s. Sonny has allowed me to post this, and he has promised to call me.

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by NotH20 on Nov 7^th, 2002, 7:37am

Being my first post to check this morning - WOW is all I can say at the moment :o

I always knew that this board was made up of such special people.....but after reading both DTruett's and Sonny's posts - I am now ever more amazed!

DTruett - you've come such a long way and we are so very proud of you. We all know how difficult it is to get up every damn time the beast hits us - over and over again. Congrats to you!!!!

Sonny - I'm glad that you were lurking in the backgroud reading this thread. Actually I'm thankful !!! You did not give in and you're holding strong. Lean on people here when needed and give strength to others in their time of need. Usually the saying "what goes around, comes around" is used in a negative way - this time it's used in a positive way.....

Keep the faith and know that this board is here for everyone....

NotH20

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by Linda T on Nov 7^th, 2002, 8:19am

Well, here I am, once again coming in alittle bit late.

I just wanted to say to everyone one this board - WOW. This is the reason why I stay around. Putting aside all the bullsh*t and helping someone cope - I can't even find the right words to describe it.

I read Don's initial post and cried. Kept reading the thread and by the time I got to the end I could feel the difference! In just a couple of days you all managed to literally change someone's outlook - if not life.

I've said it before and I'll repeat it again - you guys did the same for me. I am forever in your debt.

To Don: I'm so glad that you have been able to put things in some kind of perspective so that the art of daily living is no longer a burden (or at least I hope you have after reading this thread). I've been there - we've all been there. I found that once I "got over myself" things just became that much easier to deal with (although I will say that the first time someone said that to me I wanted to smack them!) You said that you often tell yourself "maybe that's the last one". Kinda like a pep talk to yourself. I do the same thing only my mantra is "I kicked the beast's ass time and I'll do it again". I know it sounds silly but it helps the pschye (SP?) somehow.

I wish you the best of luck and hope you stick around.

Wishing you all PFDAN always, Linda T

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by Charlie on Nov 8^th, 2002, 2:09am

Here it is in the middle of the morning and I just found Don's terrific post. It isn't done any better folks.

This is what this place is for and it's good when this kind of story finds its way to the top. Maybe we should retitle this thing. 8)

Thanks Don! http://www.headachesupportgroups.com/echat43/beer2.gif

Charlie

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by Peppermint on Nov 8^th, 2002, 9:09am

Charlie - :)
.......and once again it is evident how the human spirit rises.

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by soworried on Nov 12^th, 2002, 9:21pm

You say Johnny is the O2 expert, can my dad sleep with O2 at 2 for about 4 hours or no?

Title: Re: Suicide
Post by Not4Hire on Nov 13^th, 2002, 3:50am

Quote:

You say Johnny is the O2 expert, can my dad sleep with O2 at 2 for about 4 hours or no?

since ya misspelled jonny's name....and he get's prickly about it...

...sleeping with o2 at 2 liters per minute is quite normal..all Dr. prescribed, of course--check with the doctor.... my ole MOMs is on o2 for low blood oxygen levels and uses an oxygen concentrator...60 years of smokin will do that to ya......... if yer asking that the o2 at 2LPM will help CH: probably NOT......but good luck!!

Edit: DO NOT use a NON-rebreather mask for low flows--there's not enough flow to keep the bag inflated and there can be a risk of suffocation.....if the ports are blocked by the disk valves......the nose canulas are used with low flows....

...standard disclaimer:
YMMV, do not apply to broken skin, follow your plumber's instructions regarding octane. Must be 18 to enter, must be present to win. Serving suggestion. No vegetables were harmed in the making of this message. Prices slightly higher in AK, HI, and PR. Do not taunt happy fun ball. Call your mother, she worries. Mileage simulated. Professional rider, closed course. Always wear protective headgear, do not look into laser with remaining eye........
;D