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(Message started by: 2late on Oct 25^th, 2002, 6:41pm)

Title: wicked shadows
Post by 2late on Oct 25^th, 2002, 6:41pm

anybody have any luck abortin' shadows (i'm talkin' about the ones that disrupt your life) tried my usual abortives 02 & trex never had any luck, it's like the meds won't help unless it's gonna be full blown. just curious, had a fucked up day of pole climbin' & shadows >:( ............2late

Title: Re: wicked shadows
Post by StanTheMan on Oct 25^th, 2002, 6:51pm

I hear you, 2late,

Shadows, from my rather limited experience, can be a bit of puzzle sometimes.

The shadows that I've dealt with hang around Kip 1 or 2, sometimes Kip 3. Just enough to be really annoying.
I've had SOME sucess aborting them with rigorous exercise and/or Lithium.

Hang in there.

StanTheMan

Title: Re: wicked shadows
Post by Weldon on Oct 25^th, 2002, 7:00pm

Hey i,ve got a cure for them but you ain't going to like it.
I've discovered that when I have a tough one going I hit the pool . It's currently 58 degrees in the pool and about 60 out. It seems like when you get in the water the pain get's stronger and then it seem as though it shoots right out the top of your head.
I discovered this by accident and I don't think that anyone in there right mind will try it but Jonny and I have the Duma$$ awards sewed up so go with whatever.
Weldon

Title: Re: wicked shadows
Post by Margi on Oct 25^th, 2002, 8:05pm

Loved your last line, Weldon.... "so go with whatever".. LOL ;)

What you're talking about, submersing in cold water isn't so far fetched. I've seen Mike abort one that way too. It's the cold.

Title: Re: wicked shadows
Post by Jim R on Oct 25^th, 2002, 8:15pm

Sorry 2late that you're shadowing...sometimes I have luck with O2 when shadowing, sometimes not. Sorry can't suggest much 'cause I'm usually in the same boat, but I hop eit gets better for ya bro. - Jim R

Title: Re: wicked shadows
Post by OneEyeBlind on Oct 25^th, 2002, 8:40pm

Ok, well here is what works for me sometimes. When the shadows are annoying but you ain't really got a "real headache". Sex. The big O will release all those good chemicals to your brain making you happy.

And if it doesn't get rid of your shadows .. it might make your wife happy enough to NOT ask you to wallpaper anything this weekend ... therby sparing you from a different kind of headache !!!!

Title: Re: wicked shadows
Post by Charlie on Oct 25^th, 2002, 8:44pm

The circulatory technique is made for killing shadows. It's easier to do it correctly when you're not writhing in pain.

SOMEBODY here make this work.

Dr. Wright's Circulatory Technique

This is not transcendental meditation, imagery, relaxation, or anything psychic. It's entirely physical and takes a lot of work and concentration. Give this method a good workout. It’s not a miracle, but it’s been very helpful to many.

When I was diagnosed, my neurologist said to treat this as a vascular problem. I was told to concentrate on “redirecting” blood circulation in order to retard flow to the head. This is done by trying to “send” blood into the arms and hands or other extremities. When properly done, your hands will become warm and redder with increased circulation. I also found it easier to concentrate on one hand.

This relieves just slightly, the pressure on the affected vessel, which indirectly causes our pain. We all have this ability but it can be exhausting. I was often able shorten my attacks from about half an hour to no more than a few minutes. Sometimes, when awake, I could entirely abort the attack IF I KEPT AT IT. I would suffer only minor discomfort instead of excruciating pain. Do not stop just because your hands are warm or redder. Keep this up until you are sure it's subsided. If you let up or lose concentration, it’s very hard to restart this process. It may take some time for this to take hold but when this works, the relief is almost immediate.

I learned this from the doctor in a few minutes. He simply told me to concentrate on keeping blood away from the head. He thought the easiest is the arms and hands but any place that works for you is fine. He said to think of it as "filling your hands" with redirected blood. It’s important to keep at it THROUGH the pain. This will be difficult, but it’s the only way this technique will work. I like to keep at it a few minutes longer than seems necessary to insure success.

This will not always work, but I think it will always have at least some effect on the severity and duration of the attacks. It can be useful between medications or while waiting for some other drug to take effect. All it takes is a little practice. It was fairly easy to learn and what I'm writing here is more than I got from the doctor, as I've drawn from my own experience.

When awakened in horrible pain, it’s very hard to focus, but I think it’s always worth a try. This costs nothing but hard work, is harmless, non-invasive, and it gives us a fighting chance.

I wish you the best of luck - Charlie Strand

Title: Re: wicked shadows
Post by Margi on Oct 25^th, 2002, 8:53pm

ok, Charlie....
i've printed this out. i'm going to study it. and put it into practice to see if it will help me next time with my lil ole meegraines....in theory, it should work the same for me, right?

maybe then the cluster peeps will try it just to prove a meegrainer wrong. ;)

please direct all hate mail to:

moxie_miss@hotmail.com

Title: Re: wicked shadows
Post by 2late on Oct 25^th, 2002, 9:22pm

I knew it was comin' charlie, i'm gonna try it again, i'm thinkin' i might have better luck with a shadow. one eye.... is that sex with anyone or my wife ;D .........2late

Title: Re: wicked shadows
Post by Linda_Howell on Oct 25^th, 2002, 9:32pm

Now Charlie, you know that I've posted before, that this technique does, in fact work. I just haven't been able to do it past a 5 or 6........but for sure 2-late it does work for those horrid shadows. Please give it a try, O.K.?

Linda Howell

Title: Re: wicked shadows
Post by Karla on Oct 25^th, 2002, 11:31pm

percacet/oxycodone and vicadin/hydrocodone do wonders for my shadows. It helps me keep my sanity from those constant nagging shadows.

Title: Re: wicked shadows
Post by Linda_Howell on Oct 26^th, 2002, 12:24am

Glad those narcotics are working for you karla.

Linda

Title: Re: wicked shadows
Post by kim on Oct 26^th, 2002, 12:45am

Linda, ;D :-X Anyway, shadows for 2 late:

Jump in the pool already!!!! It'l defnitly do sumpin.....

Okay, Thinkin...................... only thing i can thinkof is the damn coffee, the not sleeping thing, the racing with the devil syndrome..............sorry. Not very encouraging i know.....but that's what I do...............No sleep no relax no nuttin but being a bug-eyed lunatic until it goes away....................

okay. try taking lots a drugs. LOL. BEATS ME BABES! I give up.

Where is that crusty Ueli? No. Don't answer that. He's gonna tell me to be goddamned QUIET! ;D

Genius in disgust - i mean disguise. :D

PS: Ted still hates me ;D

Title: Re: wicked shadows
Post by Mark C on Oct 26^th, 2002, 1:23am

I am with ya 2late,
I have been going through the same thing for the last couple of days coming off a 3 month cycle, I hope I am coming off a 3 month cycle. Not enough pain to hit the Triptans, bout a K1 or K2, but almost constant, driving me nucking futs.
I think I will eat a bunch of pills and go have sex with some else's wife in a cold pool of water, maybe that will help.
Stopped taking the damn rat poison Topamax a couple of days ago, didnt help my head one bit and every thing tasted like shit, and I felt like shit. At least that is better, I think. Going back to the Neuro this month armed with my new found information from here and expect to leave with a lifetime supply of O2 and Imitrex ;D
Damn my head hurts, but not like it can, I can still open one eye most of the time.
Jonny, smack the left side of my head with your cane please. :)

Hey Slammy..........wanna make a bet on Tennessee this weekend? 8)
I will check back when I feel better, or worse,
Mark

Title: Re: wicked shadows
Post by Georgia on Oct 26^th, 2002, 3:47am

Quote:

I think I will eat a bunch of pills and go have sex with some else's wife in a cold pool of water,

Beware the shrinkage.

Title: Re: wicked shadows
Post by OneEyeBlind on Oct 26^th, 2002, 6:51am

on 10/25/02 at 21:22:48, 2late wrote:

is that sex with anyone or my wife ;D .........2late

Whatever floats your boat to that pain free island !!!

But now if I was gonna jump in a pool of water that cold ... might think about taking a polar bear ... at least one of us would enjoy the swim !!!!

Title: Re: wicked shadows
Post by 2late on Oct 26^th, 2002, 8:37am

thanks for the tip Karla, i'll take a handfull of pills before i start my day ??? i'll deal with the shadows at work. .............2late

Title: Re: wicked shadows
Post by don on Oct 26^th, 2002, 9:02am

Why bother with the vicodans, oxys, percs ?

Go right to the heroin for a blissful day.

JEEEZE !

Title: Re: wicked shadows
Post by Peppermint on Oct 26^th, 2002, 9:19am

2Late,
Ever try Cafergot/Ercaf? If I remember correctly (i lost several million brain cells last night/this morning)...this works really well for some folks... ya might want to give it a try.
Only problem is also some folks out here on the east coast did have trouble finding it. Maybe not in PA though..

Pep 8)

Title: Re: wicked shadows
Post by Linda T on Oct 26^th, 2002, 3:57pm

Dear 2late:

I remember reading some stuff on the board awhile back about people aborting shadows with ginger. If you go to the search (not a message board search but the "search" way at the top of the page) and type in "ginger" you'll find some stuff on how/if it works.

Good luck.

Wishing you all PFDAN always, Linda T

Title: Re: wicked shadows
Post by Mark C on Oct 26^th, 2002, 4:01pm

Thanks Georgia,
I guess its true, there only enough blood to operate one head at a time ;D
Mark

Title: Re: wicked shadows
Post by Jackie on Oct 27^th, 2002, 9:41am

StanThe Man,

Do I read you right? You use lithium to abort shadows?

I thought lithium was on the prevent list....interesting ::)

Jacks 8)

Title: Re: wicked shadows
Post by Jarvis on Oct 27^th, 2002, 10:54am

This has worked for me for a while both physically and phsycologically. I think it may be worth a try. I am a 25 year pain gainer. I have been in a cycle for about a month now and my biggest relief comes after the pain and seeing all you sickos exist in the world out there. I have cried at times when I know I'm not alone. I have watched this site for years, I have tried every prescribed med, seen every doctor and quack, I been to the mountain top and the depths of hell. I have done the illegal drugs as well and found that If one thing works today it invariably wont tommorrow. soooo here it is. for the daytime shadows as they call them, I call em wussy ones, I take an over the counter allergy med that the kids abuse for fun. Its called "ephedrine plus" It isnt good for you but neither are them damn headaches. Its red label brand. I am sure others probly make it too. Its a combination of ephedrine and Gulfaneisen a common drug. I use it only in low dose every 4 or so hours higher doses dont seem to work and may even make the full ons more intense. I recover quickly in the daytime feel very alert and I have no long hangovers. I suffer big at night though as allways. I discovered this one wholly by accident off cycle with a bad chest cold. Aint no cure but helps me tremendously. I use no other drug at this time I just foundother ways to deal with pain well beyond the circulatory way. Luck to you.

Title: Re: wicked shadows
Post by jonny on Oct 27^th, 2002, 12:02pm

Lets get one fucking thing straight here so everyone is on the same page.

LITHIUM, CANT ABORT SHIT!!!!

Its a fucking prevenitive not an abortive, it must be taken everyday to do any good.

Ya hear me?.........I hear me!!! ::)

..........................jonny

Title: Re: wicked shadows
Post by StanTheMan on Oct 27^th, 2002, 1:46pm

Jonny (and others)

It is true that lithium is regarded as preventive.
However, I have NOT been taking it daily during my cycles, and I have had a fair amount of sucess with it.

I can only tell you what I have done. Not saying, of course my formula will work for you.

There have been several instances when I was dealing with shadows or the onset of an attack and I took lithium and followed it with a brisk walk -- depending on the time of day, etc.

The shadow/attack would frequently leave (not always, mind you.)

Some would say the brisk walk is what did the trick. Perhaps so. However, I should point out, that there were other times I took lithium and did nothing else and sometimes the pain would level off and subside (usually within 15-20 minutes.

So, was it the lithium? The excercise? Frankly, I DON'T CARE! All I know is that it works quite often for me (meaning about 70%).

Jonny, thank you for the clarification. (Even 'tho there's no need to scream about it). But I stand by my post.
I let you decide if I'm using it as a preventive or not...

Regards to all!

Stan

Title: Re: wicked shadows
Post by OneEyeBlind on Oct 27^th, 2002, 1:58pm

A person can only respond to a question with what they think has worked for them. While not everyone will get the same results from different meds or different stimulants (excercise, Charlies formula .. etc) we are all in this boat of pain together. We should each try every new thing we can to get through a day without pain. I really don't believe the doctors know how to treat this and make it work for everyone ... so if we don't share our ideas ....what is even talking to each other worth ????? Lets just keep sharing ideas ... and perhaps some of us with find that pain free moment from someone's sharing.

Title: Re: wicked shadows
Post by jonny on Oct 27^th, 2002, 2:02pm

Stan,

I guess the 7-10 waiting period for the Lithium levels to build in your system has nothing to do with you.

I am so glad Lithium is sucked into your system within hours and not many days like the rest of us.

PF2U

........................jonny

Title: Re: wicked shadows
Post by StanTheMan on Oct 27^th, 2002, 2:05pm

One Eye,

You are absolutely right -- couldn't have said it better myself!! :) :)

Thanks.

Stan ("Tryin' to stay off my high-horse") TheMan

Title: Re: wicked shadows
Post by OneEyeBlind on Oct 27^th, 2002, 2:25pm

Jonny, not trying to be smart but while they tell you it takes 30 days for an anti-depressant to get in to your bloodstream and have the full effects ... many people I have know to take anti-depressants see some of the effects within days (anywhere from 2 - 7) of starting to take it. Perhaps this could be the same case ???? If the doctors knew it all ... we wouldn't have cancer, HIV, HCV and all the other diseases where some people get better and others die. The meds would treat them all the same. Just a thought.

Title: Re: wicked shadows
Post by StanTheMan on Oct 27^th, 2002, 2:26pm

Jonny (and others interested):

Your post reminded me of something I intended to do this last cycle -- but didn't.

I intended to keep a journal of my cycle -- when I got hit, how and with what I responded. (meds, exercise, etc.)

Who knows? Maybe I was using using lithium more often than I thought (as far as taking it daily, combining with exercise, etc.).

This much I can tell you:

I got my doc's blessing on using it. (I had some left over from my last cycle.)
I used one capsule for a shadow or attack (300mg).
I didn't take more than 600mg in a 24 hr. period.

If I took the lithium and things started getting worse after about 15-20 min. I would take Maxalt.

Has anyone kept a journal of their cycles? I know it may sound kinda "warped" :).... Who wants to reflect back on head-splitting pain?!?!

But maybe it would help guage progress as far as what works and what doesn't.

Just wondering...

PFDAN to all

StanTheMan

Title: Re: wicked shadows
Post by ave on Oct 27^th, 2002, 2:36pm

One eye,

when I didn't know any better and wasn't getting medication, I got attacks that would level out after 15-20 minutes. I also got some that didn't and lasted 30-40 minutes (yeah, I was lucky).

D'you know the pigeon-fanciers tale? It is absolutely true, more's the pity.

When the racing pigeon comes in it trips a tell-tale. But the boss is not always around to react. Meanwhile the pigeon is hungry.
It pecks about and whirls around and bows its legs and bangs its head - anything to keep busy and keep hunger thoughts away.

Then boss comes with the food.

Pigeon remembers what she was doing when the goodies came and does it all over again every time she lands. Sometimes she gets food, sometimes she does not, when she whirls or dances or head bangs...

Some of us remind me of those pigeons. Unhampered by the knowledge of facts...

I do like all of you, regardless, but just think: you might be wrong (and jonny may be right).

Title: Re: wicked shadows
Post by OneEyeBlind on Oct 27^th, 2002, 2:39pm

I think you may have misunderstood my post ... what I said was that while doctors tell you how meds will react to your body ... not eveyone is the same. That's all.

Title: Re: wicked shadows
Post by jonny on Oct 27^th, 2002, 2:44pm

What dont you people understand?

Reguardless of how many days it takes to get into your system it does not work in 15 minutes.......DUH!!!!!!

Its a fucking preventive......Get it?

...................jonny

Title: Re: wicked shadows
Post by Jim R on Oct 27^th, 2002, 4:18pm

I gotta agree with Jonny here guys - lithium is a preventative that takes AT LEAST 3 days to build to therapeutic levels in your blood - it does no good to take "one" or a certain mg. amount as an abortive.... Jim R

Title: Re: wicked shadows
Post by Ueli on Oct 27^th, 2002, 4:50pm

On rxlist.com it says:
Studies have shown that lithium alters sodium transport in nerve and muscle cells and effects a shift toward intraneuronal metabolism of catecholamines.
From this it should be clear that it takes the lithium considerably longer to enter the nerves than a triptan to reach the outside the nerve(synapse). And if triptan tablet starts to work within 20 minutes you can consider yourself lucky.

But jonny, don't be so harsh with people who have another opinion. :D

Those who don't believe in school medicine may have some special lithium transport system, a kind of shortcut from the throat to the nerves nearby (something akin to the Chinese "meridians") and therefore the lithium acts for them faster than an Imitrex injection.

Lets just keep sharing crack pot ideas that defy the widely accepted natural laws. And if they don't us give some pain free moments they can give us a good laugh.

PFNADs
Ueli ;D

Title: Re: wicked shadows
Post by Jackie on Oct 27^th, 2002, 5:00pm

Stan & One Eye,
Sorry gentlemen but jonny is right.....
True that people are different....but not that different.
If lithium works as an abortive it must be state of mind... ::)

Jacks 8)

Title: Re: wicked shadows
Post by jonny on Oct 27^th, 2002, 5:06pm

In short ......If your taking Lithium dont deplete your sodium intake and dont be a know it all when you know not what the fuck your talking about cause you could hurt someone with your bullshit info

THINK!!!!

.......................jonny

.

Title: Re: wicked shadows
Post by OneEyeBlind on Oct 27^th, 2002, 5:49pm

If I did not "think outside of the box" I could never come up with the true cure for cluster headaches now could I ?????

Title: Re: wicked shadows
Post by 2late on Oct 27^th, 2002, 6:10pm

jonny , obviously your the lith master, know of anything to help a day of "wicked shadows"? WTF!! ;D .........2late

Title: Re: wicked shadows
Post by Lori on Oct 27^th, 2002, 11:58pm

For me, it would sometimes help getting into a hot shower asap and running the water over my head for at least 15 min. I could usually tell if it was going to help after about 5 minutes but try to stay in as long as possible. The other thing I did, right before running to the shower, put a few drops of hot sauce under your tongue and keep it there as long as possible. try one or both,,it may help.

I agree also with Johnny about the lith. Some drugs are just not effective in any way until they have had a certain amount of time to get in your system. It may possibly be the HA's are just not lasting as long. Dunno.
PFDAN to you all :)

Title: Re: wicked shadows
Post by talitha on Oct 28^th, 2002, 10:06pm

okay, what works for me, if i can get to it soon enough, is cracking my neck. looks very odd, so don't do like me and try this while driving in downtown traffic ;) but during the shadow phase, this works-c2 gets out of alignement-and who can afford a chiropractor on call-so i don't crack my neck side to side but rather jutting my jaw out and pulling it back (okay now that i read this its sounds extremely weird) it will give a very satisfying popping sound and i swear i can feel increased blood flow and the shadow runs away for awhile.
talitha