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Title: Sorry about this folks: Post by Charlie on Sep 30th, 2002, 6:23am Warning: Politics Wanna start a war? Okay but: I want to see someone like Adlai Stevenson who displayed U2 photos of Russian missles in Cuba in 1962. I need something. Bush owes me this much. I do wonder if it's a good idea to create several million fanatics who will delight in getting even with suitcase bombs and other ways to make our paranoia real. This is something I hope is being considered. You know me....... ::) Charlie |
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Title: Re: Sorry about this folks: Post by BobG on Sep 30th, 2002, 11:01am Screw the suitcase bombers. Let's go get'em. The Texas oilmen need to get drilling. Or, spelled differently, the Texas oilmen/Bushmen need $$$$. My Expedition doesn't run on water. Let's get the show on the road! |
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Title: Re: Sorry about this folks: Post by Charlie on Sep 30th, 2002, 6:16pm Yer Charlie |
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Title: Re: Sorry about this folks: Post by jonny on Sep 30th, 2002, 6:21pm Com'on Charlie!!, cant you see we are yelling at people on this side of the board? Damn!!!, all this politic talk is going to get Ted going again,,,,Sheesh!......LOL ..........................jonny ;D |
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Title: Re: Sorry about this folks: Post by 2late on Sep 30th, 2002, 6:40pm Bush don't owe you anything charlie, it's a whole new ballgame now. you can't compare '62 with '02. all we need to know is saddam is a sick unit with the U.S. at the top of his shit list. let's not wait until he has the capability to strike first, we know he will. take him out now, you know there's terrorism in Iraq so kill 2 birds.... ..........2late |
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Title: Re: Sorry about this folks: Post by Charlie on Sep 30th, 2002, 6:55pm You can't compare Dubya with John Kennedy either. I'm not a pacifist. Just give the rest of the world enough time to put on a good face. It would look better if we can at least pretend that this more than finishing up daddy's little problem. I have no doubt that this yutz will do something to really piss off everyone. When he does, Kaboom. With wars it's what you don't hear about that's important. It's probably too late to stop whatever it is anyway..... Charlie |
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Title: Re: Sorry about this folks: Post by jonny on Sep 30th, 2002, 7:00pm on 09/30/02 at 18:55:02, Charlie wrote:
I know shit about politics but I do know you dont go on the news every night telling the enemy what the fuck your doing and when. JMHO .....................jonny |
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Title: Re: Sorry about this folks: Post by Ted on Sep 30th, 2002, 7:17pm on 09/30/02 at 18:55:02, Charlie wrote:
Sure you can. They're both brain dead. Going in now would be a short-term feel good approach. It would bring about incredible instability in the region, more then it already is. It would set a dangerous precedent if the Bush doctrine is implemented WITHOUT international backing. Otherwise any nation can invade any other and just say it was done to prevent terrorism, regardless of if it was or not. India could invade Pakistan under the new doctrine and the whole war on terrorism would be, if not lost surely a lot harder to win. Many nations would stop supporting us in this war on terrorism, making it a lot more dangerous and lethal for us. We need to stay focused on that war and not get sidetracked. If this really is about terrorism, show the proof. We don't need another Gulf of Tonkin resolution so soon. As Charlie said, show me the money! |
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Title: Re: Sorry about this folks: Post by jonny on Sep 30th, 2002, 7:27pm See Charlie, I told ya!!! Rock on, Ted. .........................................jonny |
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Title: Re: Sorry about this folks: Post by Ted on Sep 30th, 2002, 7:32pm on 09/30/02 at 19:27:55, jonny wrote:
If you insist, LOL. It's not just a coincidence that with this new precedent in the works to invade another nation without international backing "to stop terrorism" that Russia is now saying they're probably going to need to invade Georgia (not the state and not the person) to fight terrorism. |
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Title: Re: Sorry about this folks: Post by pjbgravely on Sep 30th, 2002, 8:32pm Did you see the report that showed sadam's birthday party? The children all dressed like suicide bombers. He also was found to send checks to palistine families of suicide bombers. |
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Title: Re: Sorry about this folks: Post by don on Sep 30th, 2002, 8:34pm No one but no one can do Georgia like Ray Charles does Georgia. |
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Title: Re: Sorry about this folks: Post by 2late on Sep 30th, 2002, 9:24pm Ted......first of all i need to feel good, even if it is short term, i'm pissed!!! i'm sick of this international backing bullshit, did Truman get backing, hell no he got even!!we need to get a set of nut's and quit worrying what other countries think about us, we're the superpower & we we're attacked. also the war on terror won't get lost & will never be completly won. ..........2late |
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Title: Re: Sorry about this folks: Post by Ted on Sep 30th, 2002, 11:24pm And I'm just some liberal sitting on the sidelines not showing his anger and desire to get fucking even? I'd like to see that case be made. Although I will give up family members to hear Ray Charles' Georgia. So, 2late. While you're "needing" to feel good you're willing to have more Americans die because we lack tact? That'll make you feel better? That we "got him" at the cost of several thousand American lives? So, what next? Can we put a gov't in place that will be legitamized? Who'll accept it? What will change when our choice is rejected? You get international backing or you're in a war for some "feel good" end. If you're in a war for some "feel good" reason, I suggest you put YOUR ass on the line and not gamble our kids lives. Do I want to see him out and do I want to see us take him out? Yes. Do I want to see us fight a much tougher war on terrorism because some not a very nice person was elected over a decade ago and Sadam tried to whack him back? No. this is the central reason the policy of war is stripped from the president. So we don't have a king with the power of war! You want to lose your son because of a feud? Cool. I don't want to see that happen. I'd rather we keep getting intelligence reports from other nations. You think this is Truman and the cold war? This is a whole different world than that. The Cold War is over. Truman isn't president. And there is no checker speech that will make us understand how the present Veep got his gifts! |
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Title: Re: Sorry about this folks: Post by Charlie on Oct 1st, 2002, 1:16am I'll never understand people who love America but hate Americans. After 9-11, for awhile, Bush seemed competent. Then he went to summer camp in Crawford and found the list of things that 9-11 might allow him to get away with. Every government does this with their own crises, it’s not new. Sure, Truman went to war in Korea. We weren’t alone, you know. The Russians weren’t told about the UN Security Council vote and failed the sure veto. Everyone was technically on board except for Stalin. Some of our allies like Australia, were very involved. This mess, which is often referred to as “the forgotten war,” seems pretty distant today but as in Vietnam, we received more than 50,000 body bags. Since it’s too hard to actually tell us WTF we did in that Afghan moonscape, we’ll choose our bad boy; Saddam. It’s so much easier. Of course it will hopefully take until just after the mid-term elections to get everything in place. Meanwhile, no one is blaming the administration or Congress for the worst economy since dad’s in 1992. Damn handy turn of events. These things also give us a chance to get all those funny furriners. Hell, if we don‘t like you you‘re toast. John Ashcroft has for all intents and purposes, suspended the writ of habeas corpus. So did Lincoln but who would you trust with this? Abe, or someone who puts $8,000 wardrobes on statuary because of his own insecurity? This guy doesn’t like anything. Jonny, when I say that what one doesn’t hear during a war or buildup, is what is important, I mean that logistics take more time than what Hollywood leads us to believe. Those Abrams tanks aren’t all dragged around in C-5As. War is hard so we usually don’t start the things. It would be nice if that remains so. WTF do they have? Show us something other than two-year old F-16 photos of destroyed surface to air missiles next to a desert palm tree. Show us the money. Until then-- Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Whew.....Charlie |
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Title: Re: Sorry about this folks: Post by Charlie on Oct 1st, 2002, 1:47am Don: "Doing" Georgia might be a little tricky. Still, she has a good sense of the ridiculous.... :) ;) :D ;D ::) Don't tell Den :o Charlie 8) |
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Title: Re: Sorry about this folks: Post by 2late on Oct 1st, 2002, 5:28am while politics ain't my bag, at least i got ted stirred up ;D ...........2late |
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Title: Re: Sorry about this folks: Post by Marshall_D on Oct 1st, 2002, 6:03am Speaking as a veteran of Desert Storm, Bush is being totally ridiculous in his thinking that a war is needed in Iraq. Iraq is nowhere near the capabilities that are being implied in the news. Iraq is a country in total disarray from the sanctions that have been imposed since 1992. And Chemical Bombs!!! When George Sr. was Vice President and Iraq was killing Kurdish rebels with Chemical weapons, Reagan & Bush Sr. told the American people that it was Iran who was gassing the defenseless Kurds, why??? Because we needed Iraq to win the war with Iran, that was going on at the time. Iraq even killed 37 American Sailors (U.S.S. Stark) at that time. I would be the first person to take up arms, if America or its Allies were being threatened! Heck, I killed 3 Iraqi soldiers, for my country. But George Dubbya has got this one wrong. It is time to find Terrorist camps, which we have found in Iran not in Iraq, and blow those camps to Kingdom Come. Let's take on Terrorism and not a country that is not a threat to us at this time.... |
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Title: [s][/s]Re: Sorry about this folks: Post by BobG on Oct 1st, 2002, 11:51am Billions of bucks have been spent on war and terrorism but now that all the world's wars have been won and all the terrorists are in their proper place (thanks to Clusterheads United to Negate Terrorism) can we move to something more important. I say we move some of the dollars to Boston. The Red Sox haven't won a pennent in 84 years. Send you donations to me. I'll see that that money is forwarded to the proper |
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Title: Re: Sorry about this folks: Post by jonny on Oct 1st, 2002, 1:55pm Screw the Red sox, Bob!! We need your cash for the big dig, I love that everyone in the country is paying for this thing and only we will use it......LMMFAO ;D .......................jonny |
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Title: Re: Sorry about this folks: Post by BobG on Oct 1st, 2002, 2:35pm Hey jonny That stuff is a secret. I was only using the R'Sox as a sympathy ploy. I don't really care what the they do. Besides, they have a perfect 84 year record to uphold. GO RED SOX! |
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Title: Re: Sorry about this folks: Post by echo on Oct 1st, 2002, 4:52pm Jonny, is the bigdig still going? Good God how far over budget are they now? |
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Title: Re: Sorry about this folks: Post by Charlie on Oct 1st, 2002, 5:07pm Forget the Sox. The Cubs need it bad. Besides, we get to see every Cubs game here in western New York. Don't find better TV than that......... ::) Actually, the dig is going the other way. Jonny has been burrowing his way to Logan for his underground terrorist transport between there and Plymouth. When they get to Jonny's, he'll will turn them into landfill. ;D Glad the little twerp is on my side :) ;) :D ;D 8) Charlie (damn these smilies come up slowly) |
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Title: Re: Sorry about this folks: Post by domm on Oct 1st, 2002, 5:18pm but how do you fight an idea? terrorism is an idea. we can try like hell to wipe out people who use violence to try to terrorize our population, but I don't think you can wipe out an idea. may as well try to wipe out mathematics.... I'm with Charlie - wait til this "yutz" does something then turn his little corner of the world into a sheet of glass..... 2late - I think the "terrible towel" thing has lost its luster. the steel boys need something and it aint the "bus".... |
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Title: Re: Sorry about this folks: Post by jonny on Oct 1st, 2002, 5:45pm LMMFYBO.......Dreams, we all have them......LOL ........................................jonny ;D |
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Title: Re: Sorry about this folks: Post by Ted on Oct 1st, 2002, 5:49pm on 10/01/02 at 05:28:57, 2late wrote:
I get shaken. Not stirred. :-) |
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Title: Re: Sorry about this folks: Post by 2late on Oct 1st, 2002, 6:06pm deal ted, i'll shake ya ;D ............2late |
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Title: Re: Sorry about this folks: Post by Ted on Oct 1st, 2002, 6:22pm Nice offer, but you're not my type. |
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Title: Re: Sorry about this folks: Post by 2late on Oct 1st, 2002, 6:27pm you sure ted, i've been told i'm every girls type ;D .........2late |
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Title: Re: Sorry about this folks: Post by Ted on Oct 1st, 2002, 6:29pm Really? You should try harder to just be one type of girl. |
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Title: Re: Sorry about this folks: Post by 2late on Oct 1st, 2002, 6:50pm maybe you can help me with that ted ;D this is goin no-where fast!! ..........2late |
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Title: Re: Sorry about this folks: Post by jonny on Oct 1st, 2002, 7:20pm Knock it off shit heads!!! lets go down another road........Slammy needs a beat'in if ya ask me.....LOL but thats just me ;D ............................jonny |
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Title: Re: Sorry about this folks: Post by Slammy on Oct 1st, 2002, 7:28pm on 10/01/02 at 19:20:02, jonny wrote:
you think? ;D You best behave or I'll have to climb out of my lair and kick ya in the coccyx! BAhahahaa! :D Slammy 8) |
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Title: Re: Sorry about this folks: Post by fubar on Oct 1st, 2002, 8:23pm I think if Dubya waits a little bit, things will play right into his hands, regardless of his motive. Iraq is such a joke... they say they'll allow inspections unconditionally. Last time I checked, that meant 'without any conditions', but since I never graduated high school, I guess I'll have to accept that 'unconditionally' means: - you can search anywhere you want, except the presidential properties - you have to give 24 hours notice before you search a place so we can move anything you shouldn't see - we want our own 'diplomats' to be involved in every search so they can 'guide' the weapons inspectors - you can't just waltz in 'anywhere'... what kind of country do you think we run here? Please make sure you give us a list of any possible sites you may want to search Look, these 'inspections' will break down quickly enough. I just don't understand why, after 11 years of this not a very nice person thumbing his nose at the UN and the world, why anybody would think that he would suddenly turn over a new leaf and become submissive to the UN's will. Not gonna happen, no way no how. Nobody, I mean nobody, changes their spots. this guy has executed people for merely being suspected of THINKING about subversion. These were members of the government who had done nothing wrong. Saddam did this to send a message to the rest of them... don't even THINK about subversion. Now, that's psychopathic. I don't believe Saddam is done proving the uselessness of the UN yet, but he is close. Then we will do what we should have done 11 years ago. -fubar |
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Title: Re: Sorry about this folks: Post by 2late on Oct 1st, 2002, 8:27pm fucked up beyond all recognition, i agree ;D ............2late |
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Title: Re: Sorry about this folks: Post by Charlie on Oct 1st, 2002, 10:39pm Saddam knocks off his own family. I want him part of the pavement........but take just enough time so the Security Council gets behind us. Yeah I know it's ineffective but we make it so. At least we and the Brits won't be alone. It will spread out the hate which will surely follow. Here's some cherry duty: Military police in Baghdad. Sumpin' to consider. Charlie |
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Title: Re: Sorry about this folks: Post by don on Oct 2nd, 2002, 12:10am Ah Echo you don't understand Massachsetts politics. It goes like this; Budget what budget ? We'll just make cuts to the homeless, poor, mentally and physically ill so we can make a big hole to drive in. Have no food? Shit, lick a food stamp. Mitt will make up for it though. In the winter we'll turn it into a icey slolum (sp) course and charge to watch the trucks roll over the VWs Simple. Love Governor Jane swift |
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Title: Re: Sorry about this folks: Post by echo on Oct 2nd, 2002, 8:47am Thanks for clueing me in Don. Now I totally understand that no one has any idea how much has or will be spent. So many programs involved. It's a homeless shelter, freeway, park, rain diverter, storm drainage system, dirt negator, art .. etc. They steal the $ from everywhere. |
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Title: Re: Sorry about this folks: Post by Slammy on Oct 2nd, 2002, 10:25am Quote:
That's what happens when you have a "chick" for Governor! ;D Slammy 8) |
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Title: Re: Sorry about this folks: Post by domm on Oct 2nd, 2002, 4:59pm while I am not an east coast liberal, this article made me stop and think. http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A20617-2002Sep29?language=printer domm |
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Title: Re: Sorry about this folks: Post by Charlie on Oct 2nd, 2002, 5:31pm I still think policing Baghdad will be about like what Jefferson said about slavery: (paraphrasing) This will be like holding a wolf by its ears. It's dangerous but you're afraid to let it go. All I ask is that we look before we leap. Charlie |
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Title: Re: Sorry about this folks: Post by jonny on Oct 2nd, 2002, 6:35pm 67 surface to air missles fired at coalition planes in two weeks, Mohamahad atta metting with Iraq big boys in prauge, Iraq having the fuslarge of a 767 and satalites showing traning in them. Need more? .......................jonny |
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Title: Re: Sorry about this folks: Post by Slammy on Oct 2nd, 2002, 6:39pm Quote:
Quote:
Dude, I agree.... but can you mix in a few more beers? I can still understand ya! ;D Slammy 8) |
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Title: Re: Sorry about this folks: Post by jonny on Oct 2nd, 2002, 6:46pm I plan it out, 1) get pig off dick....2) make sure im in bed before im a dick. See? works nice for all, unless someone fucks with me ;D .................................jonny |
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Title: Re: Sorry about this folks: Post by Slammy on Oct 2nd, 2002, 6:50pm Bahahaha! gotta have a plan! ;D |
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Title: Re: Sorry about this folks: Post by 2late on Oct 2nd, 2002, 6:53pm what the hell's a fuslarge LMAO!!! ...........2late |
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Title: Re: Sorry about this folks: Post by Ted on Oct 2nd, 2002, 6:56pm "67 surface to air missles fired at coalition planes in two weeks," That's from the no-fly zone from the last war. We've been patrolling and they've been firing at us all along. No need to go to war in haste over this. "Mohamahad atta metting with Iraq big boys in prauge," Could be something and could be nothing. Pretty good circumstantial evidence that something was up though. Not enough evidence for a war. Hell, within the first few hours of 9/11 Rumsfeld called for a massive assault on Iraq for "retalliation." He's been wanting to use the incident to go to war with them since the very begining. "Iraq having the fuslarge of a 767 and satalites showing traning in them." Not sure what you mean here but if there are pictures showing terrorist training in Iraq, well, that's the proof the world has been asking Bush to provide by showing them. Without proof that that is going on there or that he's so close to obtaining weapons of mass destruction that can hit us, or even his neighbors, Iraq should not be a priority but al Qaeda and his international network should be. |
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Title: Re: Sorry about this folks: Post by 2late on Oct 2nd, 2002, 7:15pm Ted, one question, saddam has been trying desperatly to aquire nukes. it will definately be to late when he get's them, with weapon inspections that are a joke(limited access only) what is your solution? ...........2late |
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Title: Re: Sorry about this folks: Post by Ted on Oct 2nd, 2002, 7:18pm And just to keep it clear, I am for doing what really does need to be done in Iraq. But without international support in Iraq we'll have to go it alone for a lot of the rest of the bigger war against terrorism. Countries will stop giving us intelligence reports of theirs. We'll be denied access to their military bases abroad, etc. Unless there is a true threat from Iraq that really does need our immediate attention through warfare we need to think about the repercussions of our actions in the bigger picture. |
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Title: Re: Sorry about this folks: Post by Ted on Oct 2nd, 2002, 7:23pm Yup. exactly 2Late. It will be too late then, or at least more dangerous and lethal. We do what you and I know we have to do. We're in agreement with that. get him and them before that happens. But I'm not in favor of going in just because Bush says they're close. Show us some proof. If they are close we do have to go in now, UN or not (but hopefully with them). Just no more rhetoric. Show me the proof. No more Gulf of Tonkin lies to get us into a war by the president's word alone. |
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Title: Re: Sorry about this folks: Post by jonny on Oct 2nd, 2002, 7:55pm LIke I said many times, bro......I know shit about politics If the dude had a scud aimed at your block what would you say then.........dont dance answer the question. BTW: I love you and you know it :) ........................jonny |
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Title: Re: Sorry about this folks: Post by Ted on Oct 2nd, 2002, 8:01pm I'd say I'm moving back to the United States since if a scud could hit my backyard that would mean I moved to the middle east. Again, if there's proof he's really a serious threat then we should go in. I just want to see some proof and not have to just trust the words of a few politicians. :-* |
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Title: Re: Sorry about this folks: Post by 2late on Oct 2nd, 2002, 9:17pm proof is great, but i don't have alot of faith in intelligence reports since 9-11. there's alot of nukes on the black market since the break-up of the soviet union, all he needs is 1 & it's disaster. let's hope intelligence is accurate & in time or god help us. ..........2late |
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Title: Re: Sorry about this folks: Post by Charlie on Oct 2nd, 2002, 9:25pm Not worried about scuds either. Not all that worried about Saddam's ability to deliver a pizza.....yet. If we find otherwise, I suspect we won't be alone in taking him out.....at least on paper, but...take him out. Patroitism is not a short and frenzied outburst of emotion, but the tranquil and steady dedication of a lifetime-- Adlai Stevenson. It works for me. Charlie |
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Title: Re: Sorry about this folks: Post by Ted on Oct 2nd, 2002, 9:27pm So we don't need proof anymore to got to WAR? To kill thousands of people and have thousands of ours slaughtered? That leaves us down to relying just on wild guesses of who has them. Should we go to war with any country that we wild guess (remember proof is unreliable) has the potential? From Iraq to Iran to North Korea to Sudan to Egypt to Syria to Burma to France (OK. That one I'll give you, LOL)... Not because there's proof, but because we have some inkling of a suspicion? |
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Title: Re: Sorry about this folks: Post by don on Oct 2nd, 2002, 9:48pm Echo No one wants to know or be told how much. It's to embarrassing. I can guarantee you this tough. A third of what was spent got stolen. |
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Title: Re: Sorry about this folks: Post by Charlie on Oct 2nd, 2002, 9:54pm That's what they have in mind Ted. If they're wearing funny clothes or read the wrong texts: Boom. They probably have something like "Batttleship" for Dubya to play only in the middle east. Blow up dams on the Tigris and Euphrates, and the like. Must be really keen. Charlie |
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Title: Re: Sorry about this folks: Post by oringkid on Oct 3rd, 2002, 9:21am I don't pay much attention to politics or world affairs and I know I should, but it tends to piss me off and I don't like being pissed off. (I know, I am the worst kind of "head in the sand" person) But, I remember back during the Gulf War, a lot of talk about how we actually sold a lot of weapons to these Middle East guys... Was that a bunch of bull? Did we destroy them? What was up with that? Sherry |
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Title: Re: Sorry about this folks: Post by Charlie on Oct 3rd, 2002, 2:00pm From what I understand, we sold some cool stuff as well as things that they think are used to make some other nasty stuff. After all, at the time, Iran was our # 1 badboy. I have to wonder what will happen to the price of oil too. Sad to say, we probably will have no choice but it would be nice to have some others on board. Charlie |
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Title: Re: Sorry about this folks: Post by echo on Oct 3rd, 2002, 2:33pm I sure hope that after the 1st shell is dropped that the US population will not freek out and storm the gas stations like they did on 9/11. Don't know about everywhere else but the Kansas City area and burbs went nuts. $7.00 PG gas, lines 3 blocks long. (Echo did not bite into that one) |
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Title: Re: Sorry about this folks: Post by Not4Hire on Oct 3rd, 2002, 4:03pm ......for an interesting (ok, maybe bleedingheartliberal) point-of-view, y'all might pick up the latest issue of Rolling Stone (the one with scary ol' Keith Richards on the cover) and read the interview on page 62 with Thomas Friedman--New York Times columnist...It's called "A Recipe for Disaster" One quote: Big Oil is Running the War-This White House, he says, is "going to do nothing that will go against the demands and interests of the big oil companies" and : We've misread Islam's anger--The sheiks who rule Saudi Arabia, such as King Fahd, have gotten rich while selling their citizens out. It's not that the Arab people hate us, says Friedman, it's that they envy us. Food for thought in this article...check it out. |
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Title: Re: Sorry about this folks: Post by Slammy on Oct 4th, 2002, 2:46pm Anyone remember this? It was 1987. At a lecture the other day they were playing an old news video of Lt. Col. Oliver North testifying at the Iran-Contra hearings during the Reagan Administration. There was Ollie in front of God and country getting the third degree, but what he said was stunning! He was being drilled by some senator; "Did you not recently spend close to $60,000 for a home security system?" Ollie replied, "Yes, I did, Sir." The senator continued, trying to get a laugh out of the audience "Isn't that just a little excessive?" "No, sir," continued Ollie. "No? And why not?" the senator asked. "Because the lives of my family and I were threatened, sir." "Threatened? By whom?" the senator questioned. "By a terrorist, sir" Ollie answered. "Terrorist? What terrorist could possibly scare you that much?" "His name is Osama bin Laden, sir" Ollie replied. At this point the senator tried to repeat the name, but couldn't pronounce it, which most people back then probably couldn't. A couple of people laughed at the attempt. Then the senator continued "Why are you so afraid of this man?" the senator asked. "Because, sir, he is the most evil person alive that I know of", Ollie answered. "And what do you recommend we do about him?" asked the senator. "Well, sir, if it was up to me, I would recommend that an assassin team be formed to eliminate him and his men from the face of the earth." The senator disagreed with this approach, and that was all that was shown of the clip. By the way, that senator was Al Gore. Also: Terrorist pilot Mohammad Atta blew up a bus in Israel in 1986. The Israelis captured, tried and imprisoned him. As part of the Oslo agreement with the Palestinians in 1993, Israel had to agree to release so-called "political prisoners". However, the Israelis would not release any with blood on their hands. The American President at the time, Bill Clinton, and his Secretary of State, Warren Christopher "insisted" that all prisoners be released. Thus Mohammad Atta was freed and eventually thanked the US by flying an airplane into Tower One of the World Trade Center. This was reported by many of the American TV networks at the time that the terrorists were first identified. It was censored in the US from all later reports. Slammy 8) |
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Title: Re: Sorry about this folks: Post by echo on Oct 4th, 2002, 2:52pm Wonderful -- just fucking wonderful! Thanks for posting this one bro, didn't know about the Atta release. "Hey Bill -- quit sucking on that cigar and get you ass over here"! |
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Title: Re: Sorry about this folks: Post by Peppermint on Oct 4th, 2002, 2:56pm Revelations... amazing what "we the people" forget and how conveniently the gov't plays along. Thanks Slammy - enlightening to say the least...politics make my stomach turn. |
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Title: Re: Sorry about this folks: Post by oringkid on Oct 4th, 2002, 3:24pm As an aside, when Ollie was campaigning for pres. I got to meet him and shake his hand. I always liked that guy. Basically cuz he did his duty as an officer and became the scapegoat. I think it was way wrong for them to make him the scapegoat, but, it showed his loyalty. Sherry |
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Title: Re: Sorry about this folks: Post by Charlie on Oct 4th, 2002, 5:15pm I've seen this thing before. The internet draws in those who never tire of Clinton stories. He still drives the far right wing of the GOP nuts. Gotta admire someone that good. So, North was the fall guy who got caught, and Senator Gore was doing his job. Fun I guess. Nothing I read above changes the fact that Oliver North acts like an idiot and is an ebarrasment to many Republicans. Charlie |
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Title: Re: Sorry about this folks: Post by Marc on Oct 4th, 2002, 5:55pm Not to be picky, but in the interest of clarity I want to point out that the old "Ollie" story is a little off- and it seems to be making the rounds again. - It was the committee counsel, John Nields, not a Senator who was doing the questioning. - The security system cost $16K. - The terrorist was Abu Nidal, not Bin Laden. - He never said he was afraid of the man, but he was afraid for his family. By the way, I'm still an Ollie fan....... |
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Title: Re: Sorry about this folks: Post by Charlie on Oct 4th, 2002, 6:16pm I'm not surprised Marc and thanks for that. There is a tendency to read what we want into stories like this. It's human nature to make things more interesting. This thing is old enough to have had several "improvements" along the line. Sometime in the 70s the GOP began to concentrate push button issues and the Jerry Falwell wing. I got tired of it and bolted the GOP. When guys like North do the ranting, the more comfortable I am with my decision. Charlie |
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Title: Re: Sorry about this folks: Post by Ree on Oct 4th, 2002, 6:18pm Don't you guys know the RULES... In my house no talk about Politics and Religion at the family gatherings... sheesh...get it straight boys and girls ps Im an Ollie fan too... and a mother of two brave servicemen~~~just ree carry on |
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Title: Re: Sorry about this folks: Post by Marc on Oct 4th, 2002, 7:49pm Hey Ree, In this case it's OK - Charlie warned us! Here is an interesting quote from a guy named John Mills in 1863 (Cival War era) "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feelings which thinks is worth war is much worse. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself" Yes, I wholeheartedly agree that we should work harder to gain the support of our "allies", but if that fails - eventually someone has to step up to the plate. Are we going to sit back and wait for France to "fix" the problem? |
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Title: Re: Sorry about this folks: Post by Ted on Oct 4th, 2002, 8:07pm Sorry Slammy, but not even Ollie remembers that: FROM THE DESK OF LTCOL OLIVER L. NORTH (USMC) RET. NOVEMBER 28, 2001 OVER THE COURSE OF THE LAST SEVERAL WEEKS, I HAVE RECEIVED SEVERAL THOUSAND E-MAILS FROM EVERY STATE IN THE U.S. AND 13 FOREIGN COUNTRIES IN WHICH THE ORIGINATOR PURPORTS TO HAVE RECENTLY VIEWED A VIDEOTAPE OF MY SWORN TESTIMONY BEFORE A CONGRESSIONAL COMMITTEE IN 1987. A COPY OF ONE OF THOSE E-MAILS IS ATTACHED BELOW. AS YOU WILL NOTE, THE ORIGINATOR ATTRIBUTES TO ME CERTAIN STATEMENTS REGARDING USAMA BIN LADEN AND OTHER MATTERS THAT ARE SIMPLY INACCURATE. THOUGH I WOULD LIKE TO CLAIM THE GIFT OF PROPHESY, I DON'T HAVE IT. I DON'T KNOW WHO SAW WHAT VIDEO "AT UNC." (OR ANYWHERE ELSE) BUT, FOR THE RECORD, HERE'S WHAT I DO KNOW: 1. IT WAS THE COMMITTEE COUNSEL, JOHN NIELDS, NOT A SENATOR WHO WAS DOING THE QUESTIONING. 2. THE SECURITY SYSTEM, INSTALLED AT MY HOME, JUST BEFORE I MADE A VERY SECRET TRIP TO TEHRAN, COST, ACCORDING TO THE COMMITTEE, $16K, NOT $60K. 3. THE TERRORIST WHO THREATENED TO KILL ME IN 1986, JUST BEFORE THAT SECRET TRIP TO TEHRAN, WAS NOT USAMA BIN LADEN, IT WAS ABU NIDAL (WHO WORKS FOR THE LIBYANS -- NOT THE TALIBAN AND NOT IN AFGHANISTAN). 4. I NEVER SAID I WAS AFRAID OF ANYBODY. I DID SAY THAT I WOULD BE GLAD TO MEET ABU NIDAL ON EQUAL TERMS ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD BUT THAT I WAS UNWILLING TO HAVE HIM OR HIS OPERATIVES MEET MY WIFE AND CHILDREN ON HIS TERMS. 5. I DID SAY THAT THE TERRORISTS INTERCEPTED BY THE FBI ON THE WAY TO MY HOUSE IN FEB. 87 TO KILL MY WIFE, CHILDREN AND ME WERE LIBYANS, DISPATCHED FROM THE PEOPLE'S COMMITTEE FOR LIBYAN STUDENTS IN MCLEAN, VIRGINIA. 6. AND I DID SAY THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAD MOVED MY FAMILY OUT OF OUR HOME TO A MILITARY BASE (CAMP LEJEUNE, NC) UNTIL THEY COULD DISPATCH MORE THAN 30 AGENTS TO PROTECT MY FAMILY FROM THOSE TERRORISTS (BECAUSE A LIBERAL FEDERAL JUDGE HAD ALLOWED THE LYBIAN ASSASSINS TO POST BOND AND THEY FLED). 7. AND, FYI: THOSE FEDERAL AGENTS REMAINED AT OUR HOME UNTIL I RETIRED FROM THE MARINES AND WAS NO LONGER A "GOVERNMENT OFFICIAL." BY THEN, THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT HAD SPENT MORE THAN $2M PROTECTING THE NORTH FAMILY. THE TERRORISTS SENT TO KILL US WERE NEVER RE-APPREHENDED. SEMPER FIDELIS, OLIVER L. NORTH In mid-2002, the "Oliver North warned us about Osama" falsity was twinned in e-mail with another wildly popular Internet muddling, the "We freed Mohammed Atta" claim. Like its North counterpart, the Atta story was half-baked at best; it was a different Atta. Last updated: 19 September 2002 The URL for this page is http://www.snopes.com/rumors/north.htm Click here to e-mail this page to a friend Urban Legends Reference Pages © 1995-2002 by Barbara and David P. Mikkelson This material may not be reproduced without permission |
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Title: Re: Sorry about this folks: Post by Marc on Oct 4th, 2002, 8:22pm Uh Ted, Could you get some more specific info next time? ;D Marc |
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Title: Re: Sorry about this folks: Post by Ted on Oct 4th, 2002, 8:24pm And: Claim: Oliver North stated during the 1987 Iran-Contra hearings that Osama bin Laden was "the most evil person alive" and that "an assassin team [should] be formed to eliminate him and his men from the face of the earth." Status: False. Example: [Collected on the Internet, 2001] One of the versions in circulation concludes "The senator disagreed with this approach and that was all that was shown of the clip. If anyone is interested, the Senator turned out to be none other than . . . Al Gore." (Senator Al Gore of Tennessee was not a member of the United States Senate Select Committee on Secret Military Assistance to Iran and the Nicaraguan Opposition and therefore did not take part in the questioning of any witnesses before the Committee.) Origins: For most of us who watched the televised Iran-Contra hearings in 1987 -- held by Congress to determine whether the Reagan administration had secretly and illegally sold arms to Iran in order to secure the release of American hostages, then used the profits from those sales to fund the contra rebels in Nicaragua -- the enduring image we came away with was a memory of an unapologetic and resolute Lt. Col. Oliver North delivering testimony in a Marine uniform. North, who was a central figure in the plan to secretly ship arms to Iran despite a U.S. trade and arms embargo, and who as a National Security Council aide directed efforts to raise private and foreign funds for the contras despite a Congressional prohibition on U.S. government agencies' providing military aid to the Nicaraguan rebels, testified before Congress under a grant of limited immunity in July 1987, becoming "the darling of the American conservative movement with his earnest, self-justifying testimony during the televised hearings" (or, to the other side, becoming a villain "who lied to Congress to support an illegal war"). Although North had been granted limited immunity for his testimony, he was later convicted of criminal charges related to Iran-Contra activities (a conviction that was eventually overturned on the grounds that witnesses had been influenced by his immunized testimony). One of the charges against North was that he had received a $16,000 home security system paid for out of the proceeds of the Iran-Contra affair and had forged documents to cover his receipt of an illegal gratuity. North admitted that he knew the security system was a "gift" but maintained he never inquired about who had paid for it or how it was financed, and he was insistent that he needed the security system because the government had failed to provide adequate protection against international terrorists for him and his family. The terrorist North mentioned in his testimony was not Osama bin Laden, however. To the extent that bin Laden was known to the western world in 1987, it was not as a "terrorist" but as one of the U.S.-backed "freedom fighters" participating in the war against the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan. Osama bin Laden's hatred of the U.S. and conversion to "terrorist" status is not believed to have come about until the Gulf War of 1990-91, when he was outspokenly critical of Saudi Arabian dependence upon the U.S. military and denounced U.S. support of a "corrupt, materialist, and irreligious" Saudi monarchy. (The Saudi Arabian government stripped bin Laden of his citizenship in 1994 for his funding of militant fundamentalist Islamic groups.) No, Oliver North did not testify about or speak the name Osama bin Laden during the Iran-Contra hearings. He claimed that threats against his life had been made by terrorist Abu Nidal, telling a congressional committee: I want you to know that I'd be more than willing . . . to meet Abu Nidal on equal terms anywhere in the world. There's an even deal for him. OK? But I am not willing to have my wife and my four children meet Abu Nidal or his organization on his terms. To emphasize his point, North showed the committee a blow-up of a newspaper article detailing the atrocities of Abu Nidal and recalled that an 11-year-old girl named Natasha Simpson, the daughter of an Associated Press news editor, had been gunned down (along with four other Americans) during an attack by an Abu Nidal group on the El Al terminal at the Rome airport in December 1985. North also later claimed that an attempt on his life had been made five months before his congressional testimony at the instigation of Libyan leader Mohmmar Qadaffi: In February 1987, Muammar Ghadaffi ordered his thugs to carry out a threat made against me in 1986. Thankfully, the FBI intercepted the well-armed perpetrators on the way to our home, and my family and I were sequestered for a time on a military base. The orders from Tripoli were delivered to a terrorist cell in Virginia -- at the offices of The People's Committee for Libyan Students. So no, Oliver North didn't warn us back in 1987 about Osama bin Laden's "potential threat to the security of the world" or suggest that bin Laden be hunted down by "an assassin team," nor was he given the brush-off by a clueless senator "who disagreed with this approach." Eventually, Col. North drafted his own response to this piece of misinformation. |
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Title: Re: Sorry about this folks: Post by Charlie on Oct 4th, 2002, 10:11pm Nice Ted. Nice. Everyone sends me that North bin Laden thing. Even if it were true (although everyone should know bin Laden wasn't around then) it would be nothing but similar to of those strings of coincidences the Lincoln conspriacy crowd comes up with. You can see all you want of North on Faux News anyway. He sounds worse now that he isn't tempered by Marine decorum. Charlie |
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