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Title: Question about the hypothalmous and CH's Post by iukid on Sep 17th, 2002, 9:44pm I hear the the hypothalmous is suspected of causing cluster headaches but part of this doesnt make sence because I would think that if it were you hypothalmous malfunctioning then you would also have problems with the other things it does like hormonal problems, our sleep cycle, and all the other crap it does. |
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Title: Re: Question about the hypothalmous and CH's Post by Not4Hire on Sep 17th, 2002, 10:12pm ...iu.......son, ya ARE relentless..... and if ya think about it...or if ya are payin' attention...we all DO have these symptoms......and have reported them ....hormonal problems......boy does Slammy qualify (just fuckin' with ya ....I don't need no more flames...LOL) sleep cycle....ya think anybody here EVER fucking SLEEPS?...... the hypothalamus (part of the reptilian/most primitive/ fuck-with-me-I'll kill ya or beat-feet-the-hell-outta-here) part of the brain MAY BE too big/malformed/too small/sending bad info/whatever...... bottom line: please, brother..... read a little more..... consider that maybe your questions and their answers are implicit in the information that these kind folks have amassed...... just use it! NotAFlameInc.(tm) ;D and please tell us how old ya are.....and join OUCH / then USE it... .............is this better, Ted? |
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Title: Re: Question about the hypothalmous and CH's Post by SteveY on Sep 18th, 2002, 3:20am Not all of the hypothalamus is deformed, merely one small part on one side. See link. Steve. http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s31951.htm |
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Title: Re: Question about the hypothalmous and CH's Post by Jim R on Sep 18th, 2002, 4:49am Good article, but how about those of us that switch sides between cycles...? Presumably the hypothalamus would then be larger on the opposite side. So, maybe the hypothalamus wouldn't be the "egg"? Jim R |
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Title: Re: Question about the hypothalmous and CH's Post by SteveY on Sep 18th, 2002, 5:11am Perhaps those that switch sides have a double yoke? Seriously Jim don't know the answer to that, will try to contact someone who may. Steve |
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Title: Re: Question about the hypothalmous and CH's Post by Jim R on Sep 18th, 2002, 6:16am Thanks Steve - it just kind of made me wonder becasue I seem to switch sides almost every cycle... BTW, all my relatives - aunts, uncles and cousins are in England (my mom was English) - around Birmingham - Sutton Coldfield, Kidderminster, Hereford, etc. Been over many times and love it there! - Jim R |
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Title: Re: Question about the hypothalmous and CH's Post by SteveY on Sep 18th, 2002, 6:26am I only live about an hours drive from there. Give me a shout next time you're over and I'll buy you a beer. Steve |
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Title: Re: Question about the hypothalmous and CH's Post by Jim R on Sep 18th, 2002, 7:15am Thanks Steve. And I'll buy you one and we can suffer together!! LOL! - Jim R |
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Title: Re: Question about the hypothalmous and CH's Post by Tom on Sep 18th, 2002, 7:25am Hi Iukid, below some informations about hormonal dysfunctions in CHeads. CLUSTER HEADACHE Ekbom K. Cortisol and cluster headache. Cephalalgia 1995;15(3):163-164. Leone M, Lucini V, Damico D, Moschiano F, Maltempo C, Fraschini F, Bussone G. Twenty-four-hour melatonin and cortisol plasma levels in relation to timing of cluster headache. Cephalalgia 1995;15(3):224-229. The cyclic recurrence of cluster periods and the regular timing of headache occurrence in cluster headache (CH) induced us to study the circadian secretion of melatonin and cortisol in 12 patients with episodic CH, during a cluster period, and compare them with 7 age- and sex- matched healthy controls. Blood was sampled every 2 h for 24 h. All subjects were confined to a dark room from 22.00 to 08.00. plasma melatonin levels were significantly reduced in CH patients (repeated measures ANOVA P < 0.03; mesor P < 0.02), and the cortisol level was significantly increased (P < 0.03). Amplitudes and acrophases did not differ between the groups. Individual cosinor analysis showed that 4/12 (33.3%) CH patients had no significant melatonin rhythm, and that 5/11 (45.5%) had no cortisol rhythm. Group analysis of cosinor revealed significant rhythmicity of melatonin and cortisol secretion in both groups. In controls, the timing of melatonin and cortisol acrophase significantly correlated with each other, indicating that the biorhythm controllers for the secretion of these hormones were synchronized. Such correlation was not found in the CH patients; mesor, amplitude and acrophase of melatonin and cortisol did not correlate with duration of illness, duration of headache in course, or time since last headache attack. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------ Cephalalgia 1998 Dec;18(10):664-7 Abnormal 24-hour urinary excretory pattern of 6-sulphatoxymelatonin in both phases of cluster headache. Leone M, Lucini V, D'Amico D, Grazzi L, Moschiano F, Fraschini F, Bussone G Neurological Department and Headache Centre, Istituto Nazionale Neurologico C. Besta, Milan, Italy. The typical cyclic occurrence of cluster headache suggests the involvement of hypothalamic rhythm regulating centers in the pathogenesis of this primary headache. In previous studies, reduced 24-h plasma melatonin levels during the cluster period, loss of circadian melatonin secretion in remission, as well as permanently reduced excretion of urinary melatonin in both illness phases have been reported, supporting the hypothesis of a hypothalamic derangement. In this study, the 24-h urinary excretion of the main melatonin metabolite, 6-sulphatoxymelatonin, was evaluated in 20 cluster period cluster headache patients. Thirteen were retested 12 months later, in the same period of the year, during remission. Fourteen age- and sex-matched healthy subjects were the controls. As expected, significantly higher levels of 6-sulphatoxymelatonin were present in nocturnal urine than in day-time urine in controls, while in both cluster headache groups urinary levels of this metabolite did not differ between day and night. Nocturnal levels of 6-sulphatoxymelatonin were significantly lower in both cluster headache groups than controls. Day-time levels did not differ significantly between the groups. Altered excretion of urinary 6-sulphatoxymelatonin even during remission indicates that at least some of these anomalies are independent of the pain, and provides further evidence of involvement of the hypothalamic rhythm regulating centers in cluster headache. Thomas |
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Title: Re: Question about the hypothalmous and CH's Post by don on Sep 18th, 2002, 8:02am All the responses inthis post could have easily been found in the archives, on the OUCH site, etc. etc. |
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Title: Re: Question about the hypothalmous and CH's Post by Slammy on Sep 18th, 2002, 10:49am Yeah.. but Don, it's more fun to read them here... ;D besides I get my best material from here! :D Slammy 8) |
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Title: Re: Question about the hypothalmous and CH's Post by oringkid on Sep 18th, 2002, 2:59pm Tom, are those the only measurable hormonal dysfunctions found in CH'ers so far? I think I know a little bit about melatonin, but what is cortisol and what is it's function? Am I understanding this correctly, Ch'ers have a lower production of these two things at night and tend to excrete at least the melatonin type stuff more at night than normal people? Now, how does this affect us? An inability to sleep as well as others? Intrigued. Sherry |
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Title: Re: Question about the hypothalmous and CH's Post by Ted on Sep 18th, 2002, 3:04pm Sherry, I think (and am not positive) that cortisol is the hormone released inside us when there's some tissue damage that's caused some swelling. |
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Title: Re: Question about the hypothalmous and CH's Post by oringkid on Sep 18th, 2002, 3:35pm So we normally secrete that at night? Why? To do our nightly repairs? ...must be... Interesting! So not only does our mind repair (or attempt to repair) itself and I know through rest our bodies repair themselves but there is actually a chemical secreted to do this? I don't know how I thought it got done...like the car in "Christine" I suppose LOL! I wonder if it only affects certain kinds of tissue...I mean, would it even try to repair the hypothalamus? Of course that brings me to something else...is it a deformation of the hypo. or is it additional tissue? I know in some cases of overgrowth that the extra tissue is not really the same as the original. Do we know which it is? Sorry... my intense curiosity gets the better of me at times. :-/ Sherry |
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Title: Re: Question about the hypothalmous and CH's Post by Bob P on Sep 18th, 2002, 5:46pm Here is the full article on the hypo enlargement: http://www.clusterheadaches.org/library/hypothalamus/hypo_deform.htm Once agin from, yep you guessed it, the OUCH Research Library. |
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Title: Re: Question about the hypothalmous and CH's Post by Drk^Angel on Sep 18th, 2002, 6:11pm Wouldn't it be nice if everyone would read everything on the OUCH site and the buttons on the left... C'est la vie... PFDAN............................. Drk^Angel |
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Title: Re: Question about the hypothalmous and CH's Post by Tom on Sep 18th, 2002, 7:12pm Sherry, curiosity is a valuable property, as long as it's not malevolent. CHeads excrete l e s s melatonin = "sleep hormone" during the night than other people. Normally there should be a kind of sinus curve of the melatonin level with the peaks in the night time - CHeads seem to show very flat sinus curves or even a ±straight line (periodics at least during their bouts and cronics probably always , but that's not completely clear yet). Facchinetti F., 1986 reported that there were changes in the nightly secretion of prolactin, cortisol and testosterone only in episodic cluster headache patients in the active phase. ...associated with a) an absence of testosterone circadian rhythm, b) increased concentration of cortisol and 3) subsequently, reduced secretion of testosterone (my remark: ±the same should be postulated for the female hormones estrogen and gestagen). ---------------------------- from: www.clusterheadaches.com/about.html : Apart from the circadian periodicity of individual attacks and the periodic recurrence of bouts of cluster headache, further evidence of the role of a central pacemaker comes from hormonal studies among patients. Dampening of secretory circadian rhythms has been shown for melatonin, cortisol, testosterone, ß-endorphin, ß-lipotropin, and prolactin (Waldenlind et al, 1984; Chazot et al, 1984; Facchinetti et al, 1986; Nappi et al, 1985; Waldenlind and Gustafsson, 1987) during bouts; most of these rhythms revert to normal during remissions. ------------------------------- Cortisol is the body's own "prednisone/prednisolone" we all know as CH drug, produced in the cortex (="bark") of the two adrenal glands (from the latin word "cortex" derive "cortisol", and "corticoids" for the whole group of the hormones produced there, thus prednisone/predisolone are artificial =synthetic corticoids). Corticoids are a b s o l u t e l y necessery for life, you can't survive without them. Their level peaks in the last hours of the sleep, but we CHeads seem to have relatively high corticoid levels during the whole night. www.hallym.ac.kr/~neuro/kns/tutor/medical/rhy.html shows a possible normal individual curve of the cortisol levels / 24 h. ----------------------------- http://fulton.edzone.net/cites/winkler-science/team1/chap10.html = good basic introduction into endocrinological physiology ---------------- From www.gsdl.com/assessments/adrenocortex/appguide/index2.html Classified as a glucocorticoid, cortisol has significant effects on protein, carbohydrate, and lipid metabolism, muscle tissue maintenance, myocardial integrity, and suppression of inflammatory responses. Cortisol promotes conservation of glucose by enhancing the activity of gluconeogenic enzymes in the liver and inhibiting glucose utilization in the peripheral tissues. Cortisol also encourages hepatic protein synthesis while stimulating protein catabolism throughout the rest of the body. By supporting the synthesis of hormone sensitive lipase, cortisol also activates the release of fatty acids from adipose tissues. Another role of cortisol is to sustain tissue responsiveness to catecholamines, and to stimulate alpha-adrenergic receptor function and receptors in vascular smooth muscle and nerve cells. Large amounts of cortisol are released in response to physical, physiological, and/or psychological stress. Cortisol also acts as an anti-inflammatory by downregulating phospholipase A2 activity that promotes formation of arachidonic acid, a precursor of proinflammatory prostaglandins. Decreased permeability of capillary endothelium is another result of cortisol release. -------------------------- Thomas |
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Title: Re: Question about the hypothalmous and CH's Post by Slammy on Sep 18th, 2002, 7:17pm on 09/18/02 at 19:12:11, Tom wrote:
what.... as opposed to being benevolent???? I love those big words! ;D Slammy 8) |
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Title: Re: Question about the hypothalmous and CH's Post by oringkid on Sep 19th, 2002, 11:07am Bob, that says what I was trying to say, in a way, we don't know if it is different or not. I have read these things. I didn't think that these questions were some that have been answered over and over and I didn't think that we should not be able to discuss ANYTHING that has to do with this disease unless it is meds. Someone is going to figure this disease out one day, and you don't figure stuff out by sitting on info, declaring it inviolate and never allowing discussion of it. I'm sorry, if you were trying to be helpful and I took it wrong, but it seemed to be another case of "quit wastin' our time and go look it up" Sherry |
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Title: Re: Question about the hypothalmous and CH's Post by catlind on Sep 19th, 2002, 4:56pm Sherry, lately I get the same sense. Don't ask anything that has been asked before, and don't share anything personal or depressing, it sometimes feels that the only thing you are supposed to post here is concrete links and success stories. Just my 2 cents worth, but then again, I'm always confused and challenged, and don't really have CH's anyway according to slammy ;) Cat |
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Title: Re: Question about the hypothalmous and CH's Post by oringkid on Sep 19th, 2002, 5:23pm Thanks Cat. :) Sherry |
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Title: Re: Question about the hypothalmous and CH's Post by Bob P on Sep 19th, 2002, 5:25pm I was trying to be helpful and at the same time expressing my frustration with lack of reading/traffic the Library appears to get. If I can make some time, I can easily double the size of the Library with the articles I've got stored on my hard drive. I really want it to be one of the main resources for clusterheads. Want to know about melatonin? Turn to the Library. Hypo - Library. Apnea - Library. Probably 75% of my posts on this board are - "Here's a link to an article in the Library". Just get a little frustrated once in a while. My bad. |
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Title: Re: Question about the hypothalmous and CH's Post by Bob P on Sep 19th, 2002, 5:44pm From an article I just found: "We conclude by presenting the hypothesis that disturbances in melatonin secretion may also be relevant to the pathophysiology of Tourette's syndrome " Explaines why DJ says fuck all the time! |
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Title: Re: Question about the hypothalmous and CH's Post by Drk^Angel on Sep 19th, 2002, 5:48pm That explains why I cuss worse than a drunken sailor on a bad day. No... Wait... That's just because I don't give a damn... Never mind... :P PFDAN............................... Drk^Angel |
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Title: Re: Question about the hypothalmous and CH's Post by jonny on Sep 19th, 2002, 5:48pm Seem's to me that before you can get an answer here you can find it in the library (And detailed info you wont get here) But what the hell do I know?....Hub says I have a tumor! .................jonny |
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Title: Re: Question about the hypothalmous and CH's Post by oringkid on Sep 19th, 2002, 6:08pm ...........I give up................ |
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Title: Re: Question about the hypothalmous and CH's Post by Bob P on Sep 19th, 2002, 6:10pm Or this one: "Title: Magnetic field effects on pineal indoleamine metabolism and possible biological consequences. Author(s): Reiter RJ; Richardson BA Address: Department of Cellular and Structural Biology, University of Texas Health Science Center, San Antonio 78284. Source: FASEB J 1992 Mar;6(6):2283-7 Abstract: In recent years, there has been a great deal of publicity concerning the possible health effects of electric and/or magnetic field exposure. One of the most frequently reported observations after the exposure of animals to either electric or magnetic fields relates to alterations in the metabolism of serotonin (5HT) to melatonin within the pineal gland. This review summarizes these results particularly in ani_mals exposed to intermittently inverted, non-time varying magnetic fields, i.e., pulsed static magnetic fields. When exposure occurs at night, the conversation of 5HT to melatonin is typically depressed, not unlike that after light exposure at night. The mechanisms by which pulsed magnetic fields alter the ability of the pineal to convert 5HT to the chief pineal hormone melatonin remains unknown but may involve effects on any or all of the following: the retinas, the suprachiasmatic nuclei, the peripheral sympathetic nervous system, and the pinealocytes. Results to date suggest that induced electrical currents (eddy currents) produced by the pulsed magnetic fields are particularly detrimental to pineal indoleamine metabolism and may be an important causative factor in the metabolic changes measured. The physiological consequences of perturbations in the melatonin rhythm induced by magnetic field exposure remain unknown " Better get yourself one of Don's tin foil hats! |
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Title: Re: Question about the hypothalmous and CH's Post by Bob P on Sep 19th, 2002, 6:14pm Cause or effect? Since melatonin is metabolized from 5HT in the Pineal gland, are our 5HT levels also suppressed? That is, are our melatonin levels suppressed because the pineal gland doesn't metabolize enough of it from the 5HT or is it because there isn't enough 5HT for the pineal to metabolize it from? |
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Title: Re: Question about the hypothalmous and CH's Post by catlind on Sep 19th, 2002, 6:15pm Hmmm think I'll go to the drug store and buy one of those magnetic bracelets they use for arthritis...one big enough for my head. Maybe that will fix things :) Cat |
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Title: Re: Question about the hypothalmous and CH's Post by oringkid on Sep 19th, 2002, 6:33pm Ok, here's one for you. How many of you cannot get an old style watch to run on you. ie the geared kind, not quartz or led, the wind up kind. Longest one has run on me is about 24 hours. Sherry |
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Title: Re: Question about the hypothalmous and CH's Post by jonny on Sep 19th, 2002, 6:38pm Why would I want to? My cell phone will tell the time in any time zone.....LOL I can even play video games on it.....LMMFAO ;D .................jonny |
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Title: Re: Question about the hypothalmous and CH's Post by oringkid on Sep 19th, 2002, 6:41pm I don't know whether to be irritated or laugh... so, I stand by my previous statement... .............I.....give.......up............ Sherry |
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Title: Re: Question about the hypothalmous and CH's Post by jonny on Sep 19th, 2002, 6:45pm Com'on Kid, You know im hardly serious, now smile will ya!!!!! :D .................jonny ;D |
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Title: Re: Question about the hypothalmous and CH's Post by Slammy on Sep 19th, 2002, 6:51pm on 09/19/02 at 18:33:32, oringkid wrote:
I tell ya... it's: " Those Lips..." " Those Eyes..." ;D :-* Slammy 8) |
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Title: Re: Question about the hypothalmous and CH's Post by Not4Hire on Sep 19th, 2002, 7:09pm .....ain't we havin' some fun NOW? I stand by my post to iukid........who has fled for Parts Unknown... and left us folks who HAVE spent some time in the library to argue over TFH .....and 5HT .....and 6-sulphatoxymelatonin .......and pulsed magnetic fields are particularly detrimental to pineal indoleamine metabolism and may be an important causative factor in the metabolic changes measured. The physiological consequences of perturbations in the melatonin rhythm induced by magnetic field exposure remain unknown .....and malevolence between folks who really got no problem between each other....... and finally turns into...LMMFAO.... a discussion of "Are yez smart enuff to wind yer watch every day...... ...I jus' love this board...............STFU allayez............ .....ya can sit on my face...ya can buy me a taste........ WHERE'S MY WAITRESS ? (can't remember: Commander Cody and the Lost Planet Airmen? or one o' them other Austin bands?) |
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Title: Re: Question about the hypothalmous and CH's Post by Jabeen on Sep 19th, 2002, 9:15pm It takes a while for new folks to get through it all-plus I find all the technical jargon overwhelming at times. Some questions may not mean material wasn't read, but rather trying to find someone who can simplify it or put it into layperson's terms. I am still working my way through all the info- Jabeen |
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Title: Re: Question about the hypothalmous and CH's Post by Mastifflvr28 on Sep 19th, 2002, 11:22pm Yes Jabeen, But not over and over and over. Mast |
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Title: Re: Question about the hypothalmous and CH's Post by Drk^Angel on Sep 20th, 2002, 12:45am Kid... I can't wear a wind up watch or abattery operated watch because they run way fast, and the battery operated ones will burn out or go all crazy... I can't wear any metal except gold and silver because most metals will actually burn my skin... Did I mention I think I'm an alien or something? Maybe it's just the implants that the aliens give us when we get abducted... LOL PFDAN.................... Drk^Angel |
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