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        New Message Board Archives >> 2002 Posts >> Alcoholism and CH's
        
(Message started by: HypnoticFreddy on Aug 22^nd, 2002, 3:39pm)

Title: Alcoholism and CH's
Post by HypnoticFreddy on Aug 22^nd, 2002, 3:39pm

From all these stats I keep reading about CH's, it says that many CH sufferrers are alcoholics. That seems odd, because during a cycle, even the sight of alcohol triggers a headache. How can a serious alcoholic imbibe during the cycles? The headaches are so severe (for me) after drinking that I can't imagine someone who drinks everyday and suffers from CHs can possibly do this. While I enjoy an occasional drink, I am looking forward to the end of the cycle to test out the booze waters to see if the CHs are over. Having a drink is a sure way too determine if you are done with the cycle.

Title: Re: Alcoholism and CH's
Post by ChristineL on Aug 22^nd, 2002, 3:49pm

I don't know about stats but I sure as hell stay away from booze of any kind when I am having CH's. I just can't imagine anyone wanting to possibly bring on the pain if it can be avoided. (shudder)

Waiting for the day when I can have a Margarita again.

Chris L

Title: Re: Alcoholism and CH's
Post by Bob P on Aug 22^nd, 2002, 3:56pm

I'm an alcoholic and a clustehead.

I just didn't drink during a cluster even though I thought about it every day.

When I thought the cluster may be over, after 4-6 weeks, I would try a beer to see if I got a headache. If I did, wait a couple more days and try again. No headache, straight to the liquor store for 1/2 gallon of Vodka and some serious celebrating.

Title: Re: Alcoholism and CH's
Post by Drk^Angel on Aug 22^nd, 2002, 3:59pm

Mmmmmmmmmm... Beer.

PFDAN................ Drk^Angel

PS... Not everyone is effected by alcohol during their cycles.

DA

Title: Re: Alcoholism and CH's
Post by ChristineL on Aug 22^nd, 2002, 4:04pm

Lucky them!!!! I know it is a trigger for me.

DAMN - I never get to have any fun.

Chris L

Title: Re: Alcoholism and CH's
Post by Slammy on Aug 22^nd, 2002, 4:20pm

Amen Bob!

Actually I drink to kill millions of brain cells hoping to knock off the ones that give me the pain! ;D

I love to drink, especially vodka.... and I am tremendously affected during a cycle. I may not drink, but I think about it. Sometimes I'll get the CH at night, get pissed off, and drink. The logic being: " Hell, I'm going to get one anyway, might as well drink!"

The problem with that logic is that the CH is harder to abort with meds when I have alcohol in my system. I have yet been able to consume enough alcohol to mask the CH. Though the worse feeling is having a CH during a hangover! UGH! :D

Slammy 8)

Title: Re: Alcoholism and CH's
Post by SFChris on Aug 22^nd, 2002, 4:43pm

Slammy-dude,

I am with you - vodka is my drink of choice if and when I drink. I am a social drinker ( a couple to three times a month), and am damn lucky that alcohol doesn't trigger me (except for beer). Sucks, huh?

Title: Re: Alcoholism and CH's
Post by don on Aug 22^nd, 2002, 4:47pm

Depends on what level of alcoholism you are at.

A Binge drinker drinks alcoholically but will cease for extended periods.

An alcoholic who drinks alcoholically every day is for the most part extremely stressed out 24/7. When are attacks least likely to occur? When your stressed out.

The mental compulsion, coupled with the physical need, for an alcoholic to drink will take precedant over everything, including the potential for an attack.

I dont believe you will find a lot of active alcoholics here. Alcohol abusers or those with boderline alcohol problems maybe, but clinically diagnosed active alcoholics? Probably not many.

Title: Re: Alcoholism and CH's
Post by Slammy on Aug 22^nd, 2002, 5:15pm

The only time I abuse alcohol is when I spill a drink!

The only time I abuse my body is when I don't spill a drink! ;D

Slammy 8)

Title: Re: Alcoholism and CH's
Post by jonny on Aug 22^nd, 2002, 5:31pm

The only time you abuse alcohol Slammy is when you spill it and im not laying on the ground catching it in my mouth.....ROTFF ;D

..........................jonny

Title: Re: Alcoholism and CH's
Post by Bob P on Aug 22^nd, 2002, 6:05pm

To clarify my above post:

I'm a "Dry Drunk". At least that's what the programers like to call me. All I know is that I'm sober going on 12 years now.

In my drinking days I averaged a 5th of Vodka a day, every day, except weekends when you could double that.

I have tried, as Slammy mentioned, trying to drink my way through a cluster attack. I figured that if I drank enough, fast enough, I would be too numb to feel the headache when it hit. Don't try this at home. Not only does it not work, it's something only a feakin' alky would ever be dumb enough to think it would work.

Any amount of any kind of alcohol would trigger a full blown 10 for me within 15 minutes, when is was in a cluster. So like I said, I just didn't drink during a cluster and went right back to my alky ways when it was over.

Title: Re: Alcoholism and CH's
Post by NancyMcFree on Aug 22^nd, 2002, 6:12pm

So are you saying you have been chronic for 12 years and therefore have not had a drink ???? If this is too personal just let it slide. I'm just confused with the "when I go out of a cluster I start drinking again".

Title: Re: Alcoholism and CH's
Post by don on Aug 22^nd, 2002, 6:13pm

So what criteria do the programmers use to determine that might I ask.

Title: Re: Alcoholism and CH's
Post by NancyMcFree on Aug 22^nd, 2002, 6:19pm

I am a programmer and I just asked !!!!

Title: Re: Alcoholism and CH's
Post by don on Aug 22^nd, 2002, 6:24pm

I am living the program and still advocate for it, but not for everybody.

In program lingo, recovery should make you "happy, joyous and free"

If you meet this criteria and alcohol no longer creates issues in your life, then IMHO, you are a recovered alcoholic

Title: Re: Alcoholism and CH's
Post by jonny on Aug 22^nd, 2002, 6:25pm

the programmers go by skid marks, a dry day is a good day ;D

......................jonny

Title: Re: Alcoholism and CH's
Post by Slammy on Aug 22^nd, 2002, 6:48pm

on 08/22/02 at 18:24:42, don wrote:

I am living the program and still advocate for it, but not for everybody.

In program lingo, recovery should make you "happy, joyous and free"

Abstainence makes me an irritable moody Slammy!

I am "happy, joyous, and free" only when I am Slammin or Drinkin' :D

Slammy 8)

Title: Re: Alcoholism and CH's
Post by don on Aug 22^nd, 2002, 6:58pm

Nancy,

My criteria for a dry drunk question wasn't directed at you. Your post slid in on top of mine so it appeared that way.

The question was for Bob. I'm curious what criteria someone is using to judge him.

Title: Re: Alcoholism and CH's
Post by Bob P on Aug 22^nd, 2002, 8:26pm

When I mention that I've been sober for 12 years, a lot of "steppers" ask me about the program. when I tell them I've never been to a meeting they respond, "Oh, you're a dry drunk".

Their definition is someone who has stopped drinking but isn't working the program. I guess the real definition of a dry drunk is one who has stopped drinking but continues in the same lifestyle and actions they had while they were drinking, except of course the drinking.

To me it doesn't matter. Drinking was killing me and I couldn't stop. On my 40th birthday, after playing a round of golf with friends, I sat on a bar stool at the 19th hole with a beer in front of me. I asked the Lord to help me remove this from my life. He reached down, grabbed me by the scruff of the neck and jerked me out of that bar stool so fast and hard that I left every desire to drink sitting right there. I can honestly say tht I have not desired a drink since that moment, hench I've felt no need for the program.

Don't get me wrong. The program is a good thing. It's saved my dad and brother-in-law.

To answer Nancy, no, I'm episodic, for 32 years now. It's just that back in my drinking days, when I would enter a cluster period, the fear of the pain outweighed my desire to drink so I would abstain for those 5 or 6 weeks. Once the cluster period ended I would go back to drinking. I didn't quit drinking 12 years ago becasue of clusters. I quit because I couldn't control it, it controlled me and it was killing me. I had a physical and my doctor wound up checking me for hepititus because my liver enzymes were like 5 times normal. If I hadn't stopped, I wouldn't be here now.

There but by the grace of God, ......

Title: Re: Alcoholism and CH's
Post by Bob P on Aug 22^nd, 2002, 8:36pm

When this subject comes up, here's a thought that always crosses my mind.

In web surfing one day, I came accross and article on treating alcoholism with a serotonin drug.

Obsessive compulsive disorder is also treated with 5HT drugs.

CH involves 5HT levels also.

5HT, 5HT, 5HT. The common denominator.

No matter what clusterheads tell you, they drink and smoke more than the rest of the population. I've been to 2 OUCH conventions and seen it in person.

What if! What if the same screwed up brain thing that gives us CH also plays a part in our desire to drink and smoke? What if?

Title: Re: Alcoholism and CH's
Post by maria on Aug 22^nd, 2002, 8:55pm

Hey BobP,
The same thing that caused the CH's also caused the problems with alcohol and nicotine addiction, Pinksharkmark said it first. And it all has something to do with our 5HT receptors, which are probably the root of this disorder. Will you figure it out so we can find a cure for this frigging thing? Maria

Title: Re: Alcoholism and CH's
Post by sailpappy on Aug 22^nd, 2002, 9:14pm

;D ;D BobP,
First and foremostHugh Kudo's My Friend, 12 years is a lifetime looking ahead!
I applaud you honesty for even mentioning it here in a public fourm for all to relish, as I do I, hope! I have never drank alcohol but Heroin was my first "Drug of Choice", it started out as a treatment for the clusters and then took over my entire being!
I have been blessed in my life time to have the foresight to face demons headon and create the false crisis before an actual one occured, this is the advice I give to those whom ask for my help, not only for alcohol,drugs and smoking Ciggs. Also issues of the heart can be confronted and worked out in this manner!
I suffered a daily Bloody Beating everyday of my life at the hands of my alcoholic Father, My mother became an alcoholic to deal with the trap she felt she was in, I swore that alcohol would never touch my lips as I never wanted to treat the people that I was supposed to Love the most in the same manner that I had been treated.
Early on when I first joined the ARMY I tried a little bit of near beer and even then I could not bear the taste of the swill.
For you to stand Tall and Proud of your commitment and your Magnificant Achievment makes me even prouder to have you on the side of Friendship and I hope some day to shake your hand. My Best friend Old Bob that died in the car accident last year had made 14 years, It was without doubt the Crowning Glory on his list of Achievements as I feel this should be for you, My Friend
I stayed off of heroin for the past 33 years and the closest that I have ever come it now taking the Oxy Contin for the pain of my Severe Chronic Syndrome and I fight every day to keep it under controll and in check, Of course I have to be totally honest with my doctor so there is no cheating on this, he is a brilliant Man and can see right into your soul, just as I.
So to cut to the chase as the saying goes, when I met everyone in Englewood I was absolutely dumbfounded by the consumption of the amount of alcoholic drink by all with the exception of Me, Terri(My wife) and Ms. Donna I never saw with a drink, I can only compare my issues with alcohol with my own experiences and I know If I ever started drinking I would be an alcoholic within 2 weeks. Same with smoking, If I ever started back again it would be 1 week and I would be back to 1 to 2 packs a day, and miserable! I am happy for those of you that can drink when you want to but for me it is absolutely out of the question, never an option!
BobP, your a hero of mine from the begining but after reading this post you have just climbed up 5 knotches closer to the top! A brave man faces his demons head on and fights the good fight, a fool pretends that it is justifiable at any cost! Love Ya Bro! Pappy ;D ;D
http://www.gifs.net/animate/sungulls.gif
http://www.gifs.net/animate/sailboat.gif

Title: Re: Alcoholism and CH's
Post by Bob P on Aug 22^nd, 2002, 9:16pm

Naw. I ain't gonna let Pinky take my credit. I said it first at the first OUCH convnetion in Las Vegas 2 years ago and I've mentioned it a lot of times since.

BUT, I will let Pinky figure it out for us. He has a lot more training in it than I.

Title: Re: Alcoholism and CH's
Post by Bob P on Aug 22^nd, 2002, 9:23pm

Pappy,

One day soon, you and I are going to sit down and trade war stories, both foreign and domestic.

I'm sure it's a day we'll both remember.

Looking forward to that day my friend.

Title: Re: Alcoholism and CH's
Post by NancyMcFree on Aug 22^nd, 2002, 9:25pm

Ah drummer ... I think you are on to something and Maria knows it (from previous posts). Throw in the fact that some of us (??at least me) were treated for another disorder .... with meds that screw around with the seotonin level ..... and I will kiss your butt in person !!!!!!!

Title: Re: Alcoholism and CH's
Post by Not4Hire on Aug 22^nd, 2002, 9:25pm

brother bob... you've touched my soul.... i did not grow up in an alcoholic family.... i'm adopted...but i believe there is a alcoholic "component" to this curse. And I was married to an alcoholic for 20 years... and I know the "drill".... spent many hours in ALANON.... read ALL that the Big Book has to say..... a more insidious disease does not exist. A tougher row to hoe, in some ways, than what "we" deal with, when we dance with the MOFO. To stop the pain, for an alcoholic, means to NOT take the next drink. For us, to stop the pain, is to ......what?

If I never lift another gin on the rocks, which causes problems in my life, with my wife, then FINE...but with these fucking headaches... well I just don't have the option. It just comes in the night, and it STEALS my control... I don't give it away. And I do NOT say that alcoholics have a ....lack of character..... for lack of a better turn of phrase. And I am wrestling with my use of alcohol as I write this. It does not seem to make the least bit of difference whether I drink or not to my headaches.They come when they come. How I deal with 'em has been an exercise in just how much I trust MYSELF..... NOT to suck on a exhaust pipe..... like my POP did.

When it comes in the night, I just remind myself: this too will pass. I do not surrender.... like Pappillon......

I'm still HERE........

kiss my ass, Beast,.......I'm still here..........

Title: Re: Alcoholism and CH's
Post by sailpappy on Aug 22^nd, 2002, 9:25pm

;D ;D I have one more obversation and question for you My Friend! Why do you post a picture of Old Hubbaroo instead of Your Beautiful Wife or one of Your absolutely Gorgeous Daughters?
Are you a stingy man too? LOL! Just kidding but Really would rather see your misses up there, seems she has been the support and masthead of your ship or strength! Love Ya Bro! Pappy
http://www.gifs.net/animate/sungulls.gif
http://www.gifs.net/animate/sailboat.gif

Title: Re: Alcoholism and CH's
Post by NancyMcFree on Aug 22^nd, 2002, 9:27pm

Title: Re: Alcoholism and CH's
Post by maria on Aug 22^nd, 2002, 9:35pm

NancyM, are you going to the convention? If so wait for me to show up so I can witness this buttkissing firsthand

;D Maria

Title: Re: Alcoholism and CH's
Post by tlc_39_98 on Aug 23^rd, 2002, 8:14am

thru out the yrs.i gave up cigs for 4 yrs thinkin they could be a trigger...still got clusters....started smokin again....gave up beer when i had clusters,still got clusters....still drink beer...i think if your gonna get cluster headaches your gonna get them no matter what u drink or anything else...just my opinion....
jerry c

Title: Re: Alcoholism and CH's
Post by Bob P on Aug 23^rd, 2002, 8:23am

Tic,

That is the thinking implied in the medical articles about CH. Clusterheads are heavy smokers and drinkers. People automatically think it means that smoking and drinking causes CH.

My point is maybe we're putting the cart before the horse. Maybe CH causes heavy smoking and drinking. Or more specifically, maybe the malfunction that causes CH also causes us to have addictive, compulsive personalities.

About the picture on my posts. I'm not drummer and that's not hub. It's a smooshed picture of Dave Greenly (drummer). 2nd President of OUCH and one of the co-founders. OUCH was organized in his garage by a scruffier bunch of clusterheads than you'll ever see anywhere. I'm just trying to shame himm into returning to the MB. Truthfully, I'm just too lazy to go looking for another pic.

Title: Re: Alcoholism and CH's
Post by hub on Aug 23^rd, 2002, 9:27am

If alcohol doesn't bring on CH then you are a migrainuer which I think about 93% of you pansies are.
Then you got dweebs who don't even have headpain period coming here and challenging old europian guys to a duel. I am a sick man for coming here myself. I am never coming back...again...

Title: Re: Alcoholism and CH's
Post by Jayne on Aug 23^rd, 2002, 9:44am

I agree with your theory Bob.
When in Atlanta I did my own little research. I asked every one that I could if they thought they had an "addictive personality" every one I asked said yes without hesitation....even the non smokers!

Title: Re: Alcoholism and CH's
Post by SFChris on Aug 23^rd, 2002, 10:25am

Bob,

Of course there could be something to the larger percent of people who drink/smoke/addiction etc., and Cluster headaches, BUT, what about those of us who don't have any addictions? I smoked for a number of years, but quit (easily) in my twenties, and have never had an alcohol or drug problem (and believe me I've tried EVERYTHING). Social drinker (at best), half a dozen times a year pot smoker, and no compulsions/addictions/binges/eating disorders etc. here. I tend to be a bit of a neat freak is about it - but not obsessed. I wonder if there is more drinking and smoking because of the headaches, not the other way.

Chris

Title: Re: Alcoholism and CH's
Post by Bob P on Aug 23^rd, 2002, 10:50am

Let's see:

Quote:

I smoked for a number of years

Quote:

believe me I've tried EVERYTHING

Quote:

Social drinker

Quote:

half a dozen times a year pot smoker

Quote:

I tend to be a bit of a neat freak

LOL! I do this tongue in cheek.

Title: Re: Alcoholism and CH's
Post by SFChris on Aug 23^rd, 2002, 11:04am

Bob,

Quite a bit of a difference between someone who has a (1) drink two or three times a month, and who tried a lot of different drugs in high school (it was the 70's), and someone who is addicted. Smoking in my late teens and early twenties was more of a rite of passage, than an addiction. I certainly hope you see the difference between addiction, and taking a hit of pot while sitting in a Marin hot tub, or having a glass of wine with dinner. Really Bob, some of us CAN inbide without drinking a fifth of vodka.

Title: Re: Alcoholism and CH's
Post by hub on Aug 23^rd, 2002, 11:07am

Some of us think that denial is a river in egypt...I too am addictive as well as obnoxious. We can really only speak for ourselves...

Title: Re: Alcoholism and CH's
Post by Bob P on Aug 23^rd, 2002, 11:28am

You're right hub. Each person has to judge one's own self. I try not to judge but like most things, I'm not always successful.

I'm one of the CAN'Ts who can only drink a fifth of Vodka. I can't have a drink, I have to have a drunk! So I choose abstinance when it comes to alcohol.

I smoke cheap little stinky cigars and blow the smoke toward Shelbyville, IN.

I'm a timid, insecure person although I've tried to develope more of a who gives a shit attitude as I age.

Unlike hub, I am not a rugged, intensely handsome guy. I'm just an ugly little sucker with tobacco stained teeth and a big red nose from years of alcohol abuse!

Title: Re: Alcoholism and CH's
Post by hub on Aug 23^rd, 2002, 12:37pm

You're a nearsighted homo married to an extremely foxy nearsighted chicana... ;D

Title: Re: Alcoholism and CH's
Post by BobG on Aug 23^rd, 2002, 1:02pm

I have to agree with Sailpappy................ :o

Dump hub................................. >:(

We want Sarah, We want Sarah, We want Sarah, We want Sarah, We want Sarah, We want Sarah ;D

And folks, when Bob P said "Unlike hub, I am not a rugged, intensely handsome guy. I'm just an ugly little sucker with tobacco stained teeth and a big red nose from years of alcohol abuse! " don't believe him.

He doesn't have a big nose.

Title: Re: Alcoholism and CH's
Post by Margi on Aug 23^rd, 2002, 1:05pm

and...he's not exactly LITTLE either. I've heard he's about 7'9" tall.

Title: Re: Alcoholism and CH's
Post by Bob P on Aug 23^rd, 2002, 3:29pm

In this pic I'm about 15,000 feet tall, err, make that high. This is 1 1/2 weeks ago, on top of Mt. Whitney, highest mountain in the lower 48 States. That's an OUCH Oganization shirt under the jacket.
http://www.pahlow.net/albums/Whitney/images/Us%20at%20Summit.jpg

Title: Re: Alcoholism and CH's
Post by BobG on Aug 23^rd, 2002, 3:41pm

From there did you look down at Badwater, the lowest point in the USA, 282 below the sea?

Title: Re: Alcoholism and CH's
Post by Ree on Aug 24^th, 2002, 3:06pm

Cool pic Bob and wonderful success story... When Dave has a CH attack if he drinks his meds dont work... He finally listened to me last cycle and gave up the booze mid cycle. He had the shortest cycle ever...10 weeks as opposed to his 7 month prior cycle... I also believe in the link between CH and addictive behaviors... I've seen it first hand and witnessed it here quite a bit... I wish he would give it up all together (not a fun drunk man). I've seen that here too... working on the giving up the butts I'd be happy with that... for now... LOL
Ree