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        New Message Board Archives >> 2002 Posts >> 5 second HA'S?
        
(Message started by: jimbo on Aug 15^th, 2002, 2:31pm)

Title: 5 second HA'S?
Post by jimbo on Aug 15^th, 2002, 2:31pm

Hey all, I have been PF since 6-15 with the exception of the following. Everyday 2 or 3 times I get what I call a 5 second CH. What the hell is this? The pain is exactly the same but it subsides within 5-10 seconds. Has anyone else experienced anything like this? It is probably the cause of my anxiety over when the real ones start! I'm on 120mg. day cardizam as a preventitive, maybe I should call the doc and have it upped if this keeps up. Well anyway, the fishin has been good so "What the hell"

Seeya,

Jimbo.........

Title: Re: 5 second HA'S?
Post by Ted on Aug 15^th, 2002, 2:49pm

Look into SUNCT or CPH.

Title: Re: 5 second HA'S?
Post by Riccardo on Aug 15^th, 2002, 3:43pm

With just 5 secs, I would try also with trigeminal neuralgia.
MAy also be that your trigeminal nerve was inflamed by the CH attacks, or by some meds.

If you have not more than a dozen of these attacks, maybe more probably this, otherwise..... CPH/SUNCT

Title: Re: 5 second HA'S?
Post by Svenn on Aug 15^th, 2002, 3:52pm

think this has a "taste"of CPH.
Does Indocid help?

Svenn

Title: Re: 5 second HA'S?
Post by Riccardo on Aug 15^th, 2002, 4:01pm

few attacks to be CPH, and few to be trigeminal neuralgia..... hmmmm I continue on my track..... trigeminal nerve inflamed?!?

Title: Re: 5 second HA'S?
Post by Tom on Aug 15^th, 2002, 4:11pm

Hi Jimbo, below some informations from:

www.upstate.edu/neurology/haas/hpstab.htm

Idiopathic Stabbing Headache: Non-official terms: jolts and jabs; ice-pick pains
Clinical presentation:

Each paroxysm strikes the head as quickly as an electric shock, is moderately to severely painful and lasts from a split second to some 10 seconds. Some patients say the pain is akin to a forceful prick or stab, while others say it's like a jolt or smack. The pain is most often felt in the orbital region on one side and it often recurs in the same place, but it may move to other places on the same side of the head or, less commonly, to the opposite side. The frequency of occurrence of the painful paroxysms varies greatly: Some folks may recall but one attack in a year, others may be besieged by 50 per day. Severe sieges don't usually last more than a few days, but paroxysms occurring one or several times on most days can endure for months.
---------------------
Diagnostic criteria of the International Headache Society (1988):
1.Pain confined to the head and exclusively or predominantly felt in the distribution of the first division of the trigeminal nerve (orbit, temple and parietal area).

2.Pain is stabbing and lasts for a fraction of a second. It occurs as a single stab or a series of stabs.

3.It recurs at irregular intervals of hours to days.

4.diagnosis depends upon the exclusion of structural changes at the site of pain and in the distribution of the affected cranial nerve.
Who gets these paroxysms?
Basically healthy people experience idiopathic stabbing headache, for it has not been associated with serious intracranial diseases. Many of the afflicted are migraine sufferers and less suffer from tension-type headache. More of the afflicted are women than men. The incidence of this headache is higher after the age of 40, but children are also afflicted by it.
DIFFERENTIAL DIAGNOSIS:
Trigeminal neuralgia: The intensly painful paroxysms of this condition are very like those in idiopathic stabbing headache, in their intensity, quality, and duration, but trigeminal neuralgia is rare in the region of the first division of the trigeminal nerve (orbit and forehead) where ISH appears. In addition, the paroxysms of trigeminal neuralgia can be triggered by a mild stimulus to the face or mouth, whereas ISH can not be set off by such stimuli.

Chronic paroxysmal hemicrania (CPH): Attacks of this headache occur multiple times daily, but are much longer in duration than ISH in that they persist for 2 to 25 minutes. Moreover, the pain is accompanied by redness and watering of the ipsilateral eye.

SUNCT syndrome: SUNCT stands for "short-lasting, unilateral, neuralgiform headache attacks with conjunctival injection and tearing." Although these attacks often occur more than once a day and in the orbital region, they are longer lasting (15-120 seconds) than ISH, briefer than CPH (see above) and are accompanied by redness and watering of the ipsilateral eye, as are CPH attacks. They have not, in contrast to IHS (see below) and CPH, been suppressed by indomethacin. The only drug reported to prevent their occurrence has been lamotrigine, an anti-epileptic drug which also can suppress trigeminal neuralgia. D'Andrea, et al. (1999) reported the case of a 66-year-old woman whose attacks (up to 15/day) were completely abolished by 150 mg of lamotrigine daily.
TREATMENT:
Indomethacin is the only drug known to affect idiopathic stabbing headache. According to a recent study by Pareja et al. (1996), one 25 mg capsule three times daily eliminated paroxysms in roughly one third of the treated, lessened them in another third, and was inefffective in the remaining third. If this dose were ineffective, I would double it. If indomethacin were not tolerated, then I would try celecoxib (Celebrex) at a dose of 200 mg twice daily, since this drug has been shown to substitute adequately for indomethacin in another indomethacin-responsive
headache, "chronic paroxysmal hemicrania," (Mathew et al., 2000) and I have a patient whose "hemicrania continua" is suppressed by this drug as well as by indomethacin.
By David C Haas
---------------------------------
ATB ! Thomas

Title: Re: 5 second HA'S?
Post by Charlie on Aug 15^th, 2002, 4:30pm

You too?

I've been getting those three our four times a year most of my life but although they are just as sharp, they last for about 2 seconds. They feel the same and are in the same place. They come on instantly but they are so short and infrequent that I forget to mention them. I'm not sure what they are, if anything.

I had one that lasted about ten seconds this winter and my little technique may have helped but it was too short to tell. Still, made me think.

Change of life is hell

Charlie

Title: Re: 5 second HA'S?
Post by Drk^Angel on Aug 15^th, 2002, 5:53pm

According to the IHS, Stabbing Headache does occur more often in migraine or cluster patients. The new criteria as of the IHS meeting of Norvember 2001:

4.1. Stabbing headache
ICD10NA code number and name ….

Previously used terms: Ice pick-like pains, jabs and jolts, periodical opthalmodinia, idiopathic stabbing headache.

Coded elsewhere: trigeminal neuralgia, cluster headache and related disorders.

Description: Transient stabs of pain in the head that occur spontaneously in the absence of organic disease of underlying structures or of the cranial nerves.

Diagnostic criteria:
A. Highly localized head pain occurring as a single stab or series of stabs.
B. Each stab lasts for up to few seconds.
C. Stabs recur with a frequency ranging from one to many per day, in rare cases they occur repetitively over days.
D. No accompanying symptoms.
E. Not attributed to another disorder.

Comment: In a single published descriptive study, 80% of the stabs lasted 3 seconds or less. The occurrence in status lasting up to one week (active period) was reported. Stabbing pains are more commonly experienced by people subject to migraine (about 40%) and cluster headache (about 30%), in which case they are felt in the site habitually affected by headache. Stabs may change from one area to the next in either the same or the opposite hemicranium. When strictly localized in one particular area (spot-like) depends upon the exclusion of structural changes at the site of pain and in the distribution of the affected cranial nerve. Positive response to the indomethacin administration is reported in non controlled studies.

If you are having other cluster-like symptoms during the attacks, such as nasal congestion, rhinorrhoea, or eyelid oedema, it would appear to be more like SUNCT than stabbing headache.

PFDAN..................... Drk^Angel

Title: Re: 5 second HA'S?
Post by Linda T on Aug 15^th, 2002, 8:42pm

Dear Jimbo: I've been relatively PF since April (with the help of Inderal LA). I've had what you described. Stabbing pain in my temple. Very short duration. It only happened for a few days and only a few times each day. Probably haven't had it happen in over a month. Funny thing though - this happens on the left and my ch's are always right sided.

Good luck and wishing you PFDAN always, Linda T