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Ted
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Have a great time at the convention
« on: Jul 16th, 2003, 7:00pm » |
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But also keep in mind our troops and their families too. Especially the demoralized ones (2 stories to follow). Some of the troops families will be there. Buy them each a drink for me. If it's open bar, please order and send me a dozen.
Soldiers Stuck In Iraq
FALLUJAH, Iraq (July 16) -- The sergeant at the 2nd Battle Combat Team Headquarters pulled me aside in the corridor. "I've got my own 'Most Wanted' list," he told me.
He was referring to the deck of cards the U.S. government published, featuring Saddam Hussein, his sons and other wanted members of the former Iraqi regime.
"The aces in my deck are Paul Bremer, Donald Rumsfeld, George Bush and Paul Wolfowitz," he said.
He was referring to the four men who are running U.S. policy here in Iraq -- the four men who are ultimately responsible for the fate of U.S. troops here.
Those four are not popular at 2nd BCT these days. It is home to 4,000 troops from the 2nd Brigade of the Army's 3rd Infantry Division.
The soldiers were deployed to Kuwait last September. They were among the first troops in Baghdad during the war. And now they've been in the region longer than other troops: 10 months and counting.
They were told they'd be going home in May. Then in early July. Then late July. Then last week they heard that Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld had mentioned them on Capitol Hill.
"The 2nd Brigade is — the plan is that they would return in August, having been there something like 10 months," said Rumsfeld.
He added: "The services and the Joint Staff have been working with Central Command to develop a rotation plan so that we can, in fact, see that we treat these terrific young men and young women in a way that's respectful of their lives and their circumstances."
Solid words from a solid source. Soldiers called their families. Commanding officers began preparations.
‘I Don’t Care Anymore’
Now comes word from the Pentagon: Not so fast.
The U.S. military command in Iraq said Tuesday it plans to complete the withdrawal of the Army's 3rd Infantry Division by September, but officials said they could make no hard promises because of the unsettled state of security in Baghdad and elsewhere in Iraq.
"If Donald Rumsfeld were sitting here in front of us, what would you say to him?" I asked a group of soldiers who gathered around a table, eager to talk to a visiting reporter.
"If he was here," said Pfc. Jason Punyahotra, "I would ask him why we're still here, why we've been told so many times and it's changed."
In the back of the group, Spc. Clinton Deitz put up his hand. "If Donald Rumsfeld was here," he said, "I'd ask him for his resignation."
Those are strong words from troops used to following orders. They say they will continue to do their job, but they no longer seem to have their hearts in the mission.
"I used to want to help these people," said Pfc. Eric Rattler, "but now I don't really care about them anymore. I've seen so much, you know, little kids throwing rocks at you. Once you pacify an area, it seems like the area you just came from turns bad again. I'd like this country to be all right, but I don't care anymore."
Wondering Why
What they care about is their families. Sgt. Terry Gilmore had to call his wife, Stacey, this week to her that he wouldn't be home in a few weeks to see her and their two little children.
"When I told her, she started crying," Gilmore said, his eyes moistening. "I mean, I almost started crying. I felt like my heart was broken. We couldn't figure out why they do it. Why they can keep us over here right after they told us we were coming home."
Sgt. Felipe Vega, who oversees the platoon, sat alone in the platoon quarters, writing a letter. A photo of his wife, Rhonda, was taped to the wall above him.
It is Vega's job to maintain morale. That's not easy, he told me, when the Army keeps changing the orders.
"They turn around and slap you in the face," he said.
When asked if that's the way it feels, he said, "Yeah, kicked in the guts, slapped in the face."
Losing Faith
The 2nd Brigade originally came to Kuwait for six months of exercises. Then they stayed to fight the war. Like the others, Vega thought that would be the end of it.
"What was told to us in Kuwait," he said, "was the fastest way to go home was through Baghdad. And that's what we did."
But more than three months later they are still here.
"Well it pretty much makes me lose faith in the Army," said Pfc. Jayson Punyhotra, one of the soldiers grouped around the table. "I mean, I don't really believe anything they tell me. If they told me we were leaving next week, I wouldn't believe them."
Fighting words from men who are eager to put down their weapons.
Copyright 2003 ABC News.
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Ted
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Re: Have a great time at the convention
« Reply #1 on: Jul 16th, 2003, 7:01pm » |
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Military Families Left Feeling Frustrated
HINESVILLE, Ga. (July 16) - Kristina Simmons returned the new summer clothes she bought at Wal-Mart for her soldier husband, spending the cash instead on more deodorant, foot powder and Kool-Aid for a care package to mail him in Iraq.
Simmons wouldn't have bothered last week, when the Army said her husband's unit in the 3rd Infantry Division should be home by Aug. 1. But she and other Fort Stewart spouses learned Sunday from the division's commanding general that the troops would stay in Iraq, their return date uncertain.
A new statement by the U.S. military command Tuesday saying it hopes to have the entire 3rd Infantry home by September added more confusion than comfort.
``I don't believe it,'' said Simmons, a former soldier who asked that her husband's name be withheld. ``I want to. But I'm not going to keep putting myself in that vulnerable position, to accommodate something that's most likely not true.''
Since President Bush declared the heavy fighting over in Iraq May 1, the wait for 3rd Infantry troops' return in this Georgia military town has been a topsy-turvy ride of high hopes followed by plunging spirits.
Many families of the division's 16,500 troops, who led the assault on Baghdad with their tanks and Bradley fighting vehicles, were told to prepare for June homecomings that never happened.
Chances for August looked better when several thousand troops, namely the division's 3rd Brigade Combat Team based at Fort Benning in Columbus, began arriving this month. Hopes rose after Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld told senators last week the entire 3rd Infantry would return by Sept. 1.
But on Sunday division commander Maj. Gen. Buford C. Blount III said via e-mail he would be unable to pull out his 2nd and 1st Brigade teams from Fort Stewart, each with about 4,500 soldiers, by Aug. 1 and Sept. 1 as he had hoped.
Tabitha Giles, another scout's wife, said she's twice hung a welcome-home banner for her husband from their front porch, only to take it down again. Harder still, she's twice told her two daughters, ages 10 and 6, that their father's not coming home as expected.
Now Giles, an insurance agent, is urging Fort Stewart spouses to write their congressmen to pressure them to bring the rest of the 3rd Infantry home as soon as possible.
``My husband is over there and has been over there since the war began,'' said Giles, who declined to name her husband but said he deployed in November. ``He has never left Iraq, he fights daily. I am worried - am I going to get my husband back? It's not `when,' it's `am I?'''
Hope for the best and expect the worst - that's been Megan Morseth's motto since her husband's deployment in January. She said she still believes Blount is working hard to get his soldiers home, but has no more faith in prospective return dates.
``I'm so grateful that he made it through the war,'' said Morseth, whose husband is 1st Lt. Justin Morseth of the 2nd Battalion, 7th Infantry Regiment. ``There are people who would rather be in my shoes, waiting for their husbands to come home, instead of laying them to rest. That keeps me going every day.''
07/16/03 08:27 EDT
Copyright 2003 The Associated Press. .
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Charlie
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Re: Have a great time at the convention
« Reply #2 on: Jul 16th, 2003, 8:04pm » |
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Old men send young men off to war......
Not much changes; especially that the tax cutters give those who have little or no need for it an enormous break but refuse to pay these men a fraction of what is necessary to maintain some kind of decent living for their families. It's a disgrace.
Still, these people are elected, evidently by people who like getting screwed. It's a puzzlement.
Charlie
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Roxy
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Re: Have a great time at the convention
« Reply #3 on: Jul 16th, 2003, 8:23pm » |
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Ted and Charlie, I don't know you, but you are right in your persepctive. I feel for every military personnel overseas in any kind of conflict. I am not a Bush fan, but I am a believer in completing the job you have chosen in life. These military men and woman, joined voluntarily. Yes, I am sure they did not expect a war, but it happened, and now this is their job. They, and us, may not like the circumstances, but they are bound by oath to complete the job given to them.
Quote:Sec. 502. - Enlistment oath: who may administer
Each person enlisting in an armed force shall take the following oath: ''I, _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the
Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.'' This oath may be taken before any commissioned officer of any armed force |
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I don't mean to disagree with you, but I do believe in doing your job, whether it turns out like you want or not. The President is their boss, like it or not. And yes, everyone should hoist a glass to the troops this weekend, they are in unbelievable heat right now, besides doing a nasty job. I know, I have lived over there.
Greg
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Roxy
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Re: Have a great time at the convention
« Reply #4 on: Jul 16th, 2003, 8:40pm » |
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....okay....that's it!! I have now changed my password.... 
He can't keep posting under my name.....  Go to take a shower, and look what happens.
TRACEY
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Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. (Einstein)
I used to have a handle on life....but it broke.
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Ted
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Re: Have a great time at the convention
« Reply #5 on: Jul 16th, 2003, 10:57pm » |
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Hi Greg. Nice to meet you. Yup. We have to finish the job now that we started it. We have a voluntary army pissed off that they can't come home each month that they are promised. We never should have been there to begin with. What you are basically saying is "fuck them. They agreed to sign up and therefore let them burn?"
Actually, if you re-read the article they DID expect a war. They just don't believe in it anymore.
I agree that doing your job means doing it till it's done too. And when every month these guys are told they did their job and can go home only to be told a few weeks later that they can't go home, well, what's the "boss" actually thinking?
You finish this in a "let's hoist our glass" mode. Sounds to me more like you don't give a fuck about them but want to justify your attitude with some false Americana. Let's hoist our glass to faux Texan bullshit wannabe patriotism.
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| « Last Edit: Jul 16th, 2003, 11:13pm by Ted » |
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cootie
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Re: Have a great time at the convention
« Reply #6 on: Jul 16th, 2003, 11:48pm » |
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Hi Ted....I kinda don't think it's an open bar but we'll have a beer for ya....(don't quote me, not positive) ...were takein beer too of course....draft bad...no draft for the coots......I won't get into the politics part........but thanks fer the well wishes for the convention and thoughts about people that'll be there that are involved in the military. Pam that is NY bound and a nervous wreck.....what else is new 
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Cause and Effect......"Cause is the effect concealed, Effect is the cause revealed"
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catlind
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Re: Have a great time at the convention
« Reply #7 on: Jul 17th, 2003, 7:58am » |
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Nope no open bar, it's against OUCH's charter and I think actually illegal according to our charter to purchase alcohol with OUCH money.
And no one wants me to post to the actual topic of this thread. 
Cat
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cootie
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Re: Have a great time at the convention
« Reply #8 on: Jul 17th, 2003, 9:19am » |
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I'd say the open bar is our fridges and coolers.....hope they have sumplace nearby to reload ? Hey anyone know of any Harley shops near the resort area even if it's a few miles away that's ok. Wanted to get sum memorbilia t-shirts ect....and sum gifts fer friends at one. Pam that needs to git busy and finish packin stuff 
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Cause and Effect......"Cause is the effect concealed, Effect is the cause revealed"
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rumplestiltskin
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...OK...so if the big boys don't give a shit about their own soldiers and their families....or Iraqis...or Arabs in general...then...what do they care about?
This whole affair has shaken my faith.
Raise that glass to PEACE....not the Miss Amerika tag line...or the kind they think comes at the threat of a bullit ....but true peace...and tomorrow when they try to convince us to fuck for virginity....tell them "no".
eyes still open
den
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kim
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Re: Have a great time at the convention
« Reply #10 on: Jul 17th, 2003, 1:04pm » |
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Am thinkin today of folks headin out to look one another in the eye.......smiles to you all.
I feel pain for our soldiers. I feel sad at the inability of those that would shed my blood to forge true peace in the sand....amongst themselves and with the world.
Maybe if we ALL JUST STOP. EVERYTHING. Peace will follow? I highly doubt it. It's all our fault and then I woke up.
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Charlie
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Re: Have a great time at the convention
« Reply #11 on: Jul 17th, 2003, 4:17pm » |
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I've said it before:
Saying you're not crazy about the war but support the troops doesn't work for me. It's a convenient way to avoid dealing with the next questions; which are the tough ones.
Thanks for the wishes Ted and we wish you were coming too. You Pinko.
Charlie
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kim
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Re: Have a great time at the convention
« Reply #12 on: Jul 17th, 2003, 4:27pm » |
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Hey .............what ARE THE QUESTIONS anyhow??????????
Ask them for sure, but goddam make an ANSWER. You keep askin the same dumb questions and making up your own ideological anwswers.............NO SOLUTION!!!!!How many towers must fall - how many peace keeping cows gotta tip over?
What does a liar look like??????????? And how much does it cost???????????????
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Charlie
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Re: Have a great time at the convention
« Reply #13 on: Jul 17th, 2003, 4:49pm » |
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Who, what, when, why and where.
Isn't it great? isn't a real question.
Charlie
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Ted
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Re: Have a great time at the convention
« Reply #14 on: Jul 17th, 2003, 8:30pm » |
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on Jul 17th, 2003, 4:17pm, Charlie wrote:I've said it before:
Saying you're not crazy about the war but support the troops doesn't work for me. It's a convenient way to avoid dealing with the next questions; which are the tough ones.
Thanks for the wishes Ted and we wish you were coming too. You Pinko.
Charlie |
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Well Mao Tse Charlie, it does work for me. The troops aren't the policy. They are the ones forced to carry it out whatever they feel about it. Even those who agreed with the policy were willing to put their lives on the line for their beliefs. Those who disagreed had no choice but still are in the protection-of-our country business. And therefore I support them and hope they'll find peace after the horrors they were put in the middle of. I won't always support the policies our troops must carry out but I support the troops anyway. Afterall, many of them are the same kids who went into Afghanistan for us. You long-haired hippy freak.
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kim
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Re: Have a great time at the convention
« Reply #15 on: Jul 17th, 2003, 8:34pm » |
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Hey......whaaaat happend to the bald fat guy???????? 
You are all smelly bastards and i hateyou
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Ted
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Re: Have a great time at the convention
« Reply #16 on: Jul 17th, 2003, 8:39pm » |
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You mean Buddha? I think John Ashcroft has him detained in an undisclosed location while preparing a case aginst him in front of a military tribunal.
Hate you too, fish foot.
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kim
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Re: Have a great time at the convention
« Reply #17 on: Jul 17th, 2003, 8:53pm » |
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Sniff and envy guppy............. ;D
Crabby patty
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Charlie
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Re: Have a great time at the convention
« Reply #18 on: Jul 17th, 2003, 9:53pm » |
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I have as much respect as the next guy for the military. I'm always impressed by the way our soldiers do their jobs despite all the obstacles thrown their way. It's also quite impressive the way they have bent over backwards to be helpful to me and others. Never have I met nicer young men and women.
Saying you support the troops but have reservations about the war seems lacking is all. Nevertheless, I support them 100% and want them home ASAP.
Wish I could be meeting you all this weekend. PF everybody
Charlie
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| « Last Edit: Jul 17th, 2003, 9:55pm by Charlie » |
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Hound_Dogg
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Re: Have a great time at the convention
« Reply #19 on: Jul 18th, 2003, 9:48am » |
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Being in the Military...I can tell you this: 6 months is a loooooooooonnnnnnnnng tour. Being there for almost a year must be driving these kids crazy. I was on 3-6 month tours. The first one didn't count cause it was basically a 6 month Norwegian Cruise line Vacation. But the second one-Operation Earnest Will (Re-Flagged Kuwaiti tanker drill) & Operation Desert Shield-Storm, were killers.
Unless you've been in this situation it's hard to fathom. Yeah...it's their job. But put yourselves in their shoes. They can't go home at 5pm and see their families after a hard day. They can't even call them and tell them how they're doing. They're lucky to get some mail every once and again and their highlight of the week is taking a cold shower. Add that to the constant threat of being killed or seriously wounded (Actually at this point...I'm sure there are quite a few soldiers who wish they could get wounded, so they could go home.) has got to have these men & women under tremendous stress.
It's time they were rotated out. They have the right to see their families after the tremendous job they have done.
Jim
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