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Topic: For me, CH's are correlated to exercise (Read 960 times) |
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pablo
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For me, CH's are correlated to exercise
« on: Jul 3rd, 2003, 1:25pm » |
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I'm not sure why I'm posting this but what the heck, mebbe someone else sees the correlation for them ... I just did a an interval workout and I felt The Beast awaken about 55 minutes after I started my workout - I only ran for 44 minutes.
This one was a doozy, it had me twitching and until a 1/2 shot of Imitrex, there was no relief.
I run just about everyday (unless I go for a swim) and it really does seem that running triggers it. I've also noticed a single 12oz of beer does the same.
For now, I'm going to take a break from running (swim instead!) and forgo drinking beer. I had tried stopping before but it didn't seem to make a difference but I think I didn't correlate the running bit.
Oh and Wendy, sex/masterbation don't trigger CHs! <g>
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Live4Fun
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Re: For me, CH's are correlated to exercise
« Reply #1 on: Jul 3rd, 2003, 1:29pm » |
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Pablo - there has been some discussion of exercise/increase in heart rate being a trigger. I do have one question for you... do you run/excercise at the same time everyday? If so, it may just be that that time of day is when you get hit. And if so, try running at a different time of the day and see if you get the same result.
My 1.5 cents... 
PFDANs
Bryan
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pablo
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Re: For me, CH's are correlated to exercise
« Reply #2 on: Jul 3rd, 2003, 1:34pm » |
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As a test (being that I'm somewhat scientifically inclined - read as: Mr Nerd!  , I ran at a different time today and sure enough, it wasn't the time of the day but the activity.
This morning, which is when I typically get them, I felt a little pressure behind left eye and I did The Water treatment and that snuffed The Beast.
Thx for the suggestion though Bryan!
ps: Let me know if you have any more experiments for me to try. I'm considering the Ice Pick treatment! heh heh!
Take care!
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NotH20
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Re: For me, CH's are correlated to exercise
« Reply #3 on: Jul 3rd, 2003, 1:43pm » |
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That has only happened to me one time - taking a step exercise class - now I just sit on the couch and eat bon-bons and feel much better  Actually it was one of the worst ch's I've ever had....you may be on to something Pablo......
Mia
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pablo
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Re: For me, CH's are correlated to exercise
« Reply #4 on: Jul 3rd, 2003, 1:46pm » |
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<homer sound=drool option>
mmmmmmmmm, bon bons
</home sound>
Hi Mia!
I have to workout. So I'm thinking perhaps something like swimming. Where did I leave my hot pink thong bikini????!
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Live4Fun
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Re: For me, CH's are correlated to exercise
« Reply #5 on: Jul 3rd, 2003, 1:49pm » |
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My only other suggestion is to NEVER make me visualize you in a hot pink bikini 
Hope you get PF soon!
Bryan
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"If you hear a different drummer, dreamer take a chance... The road you choose to follow means the difference in the dance." (D. Morgan) -- Bryan
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pablo
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Re: For me, CH's are correlated to exercise
« Reply #6 on: Jul 3rd, 2003, 1:52pm » |
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Dang Bryan that was very funny! I laughed out loud; I think my cat thinks I'm nuts!
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ave
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Re: For me, CH's are correlated to exercise
« Reply #7 on: Jul 3rd, 2003, 4:37pm » |
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Pablo, the cluster is a wiley beast!
There are clusterheads who get relief or can even prevent clusters by excercising vigourously.
Some swear by cold at `the' spot, others need it hot.
Go figure...
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pablo
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Re: For me, CH's are correlated to exercise
« Reply #8 on: Jul 3rd, 2003, 6:44pm » |
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Ave, good point and well said!
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Charlie
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Re: For me, CH's are correlated to exercise
« Reply #9 on: Jul 3rd, 2003, 10:09pm » |
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There is some evidence that vigorous AFTER the attack begins, exercise can sometimes shorten the attack. I think it's pretty much the same as the circulatory technique I post:
Dr. Wright's Circulatory Technique
This is not transcendental meditation, imagery, relaxation, or anything psychic. It's entirely physical and takes a lot of work and concentration. Give this method a good workout. It’s not a miracle, but it’s been helpful to many.
When I was diagnosed, my neurologist said to treat this as a vascular problem. I was told to concentrate on “redirecting” blood circulation in order to retard flow to the head. This is done by trying to “send” blood into the arms and hands or other extremities. When properly done, your hands will become warm and redder with increased circulation. I also found it easier to concentrate on one hand.
This relieves just slightly, the pressure on the affected vessel, which indirectly causes our pain. We all have this ability but it can be exhausting. I was often able shorten my attacks from about half an hour to no more than a few minutes. Sometimes, when awake, I could entirely abort the attack IF I KEPT AT IT. Often, I would suffer only minor discomfort instead of excruciating pain. Do not stop just because your hands are warm or redder. Keep this up until you are sure it's subsided. If you let up or lose concentration, it’s very hard to restart this process. It may take some time but when this works, the relief is almost immediate.
I learned this from the doctor in a few minutes. He simply told me to try to keep blood away from the head. He thought it easiest to concentrate on the arms and hands but any place that works for you is fine. He said to think of it as "filling your hands" with redirected blood. It’s important to keep at it THROUGH the pain. This will be difficult, but it’s the only way this technique will work. Don’t let up until you are sure the attack has ended.
This will not always work, but I think it will always have at least some effect on the severity and duration of the attacks. It can be useful between medications or while waiting for some other drug to take effect. All it takes is a little practice. It was fairly easy to learn and what I'm writing here is more than I got from the doctor, as I've drawn from my own experience.
When awakened in horrible pain, it’s very hard to focus, but I think it’s always worth a try. This costs nothing but hard work, is harmless, non-invasive, and it gives us a fighting chance.
I wish you the best of luck - Charlie Strand
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iJun G4
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Re: For me, CH's are correlated to exercise
« Reply #10 on: Jul 4th, 2003, 2:58am » |
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I used to try to abort with exercise.
The success rate was so-so, but at least it was free.
This cycle, I had a bad experience where the exercise made the attack noticeably WORSE. It could be the fact that I'm on more Verapamil than ever.
My theory is that exercise has multiple but possibly opposing effects. It could be as simple as:
more oxygen--good
endorphin release--good
higher blood pressure--bad
higher body temp--bad
If this is true, it's just a matter of which effects end up outweighing the others.
I don't pretend to know about the bio mechanism that much so someone help me out if I'm wrong here...
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Clusterheads are warriors who fight unbearable pain every day to stay alive.
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kellya408
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Re: For me, CH's are correlated to exercise
« Reply #11 on: Jul 4th, 2003, 11:53am » |
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I've noticed the same about exercise - I haven't gone on my walk/jog since the cycle started 2 months ago (now i'm a member of the bon-bons/couch/good movie club ). The last time I tried to take a walk on a good day I had to call my grandmother from my cell to watch for me in case I couldn't make it home. I wonder if its the increase in body temp (for me) because heat tends to really make mine worse.
I'm debating about trying to walk on the treadmill when the sun goes down and it cools off. Thank goodness for ice and ice water!
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Danielle
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Re: For me, CH's are correlated to exercise
« Reply #12 on: Jul 4th, 2003, 12:51pm » |
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I wanted to jump in here with my 2 cents worth....increased heart rate is definately a trigger for me. And even though I can slow down (which I have) on the excersizing I still deal with one of the biggest offenders which is orgasm. It is so fucked (no pun intended) cause there is no way I am letting CH take that out of my life too.....anyone else have this problem?
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pablo
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Re: For me, CH's are correlated to exercise
« Reply #13 on: Jul 4th, 2003, 8:18pm » |
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There seems to be a common theme about water/ice/cooling down ... has anyone tried taking a cool/cold shower? That might be next on my list! <g>
I tried drinking 'fridge cold water after my run today to no avail: I had to shoot-up.
Danielle, I'm sorry to hear that orgasm makes you trigger a CH. I think if it affected me that way I'd be Mr Limpy 'cuz of the bad association! Glad to hear you continue to not let The Beast rule your life.
The weekends are usually 'long runs' for me so tomorrow, I'm thinking of doing a long swim in a lake to keep my temperature down; I have no idea if that's the issue.
Also, I didn't drink my beer last night nor tonight, and I didn't get a CH tonight. May not be related but what the heck, I'll keep off the beer until I break the cycle.
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ZAIRA
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Re: For me, CH's are correlated to exercise
« Reply #14 on: Jul 5th, 2003, 10:10am » |
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Hello Pablito ;D, this is a good post!
When I’m in cluster and I feel I’m having an attack, sometimes I make sport and I’ve noticed that the attack doesn’t start. It seems that, running, the beast is tired  ... this is my experience.
Counting that I’ve attacks day and night I should run all the time... ;D ;D
And caution , my neurologist advices me not to drink alchool during an cluster, it can provoke attacks.
Good luck,
Zaira
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pablo
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Re: For me, CH's are correlated to exercise
« Reply #15 on: Jul 5th, 2003, 10:35am » |
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Zaire, thank you for your words of wisdom! Running seems to wake the beast up for me; no pattern amoung us CH's.
I was awakened this AM by the beast and I didn't hit the injection until four hours later. It was a strange one in that it was a low-level CH. I tried havnig sex with my wife and that made it go away for a bit, but then it came back.
I tried a cold shower and that didn't do it either.
I'm going to swim after all today ... I have a worn-out feeling ... like after suffering a bout with the flu.
Next time I'm feeling pumped, I'll try a run and drink a sport's drink afterwards to see if it's an electrolyte issue.
Thx folks!
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NotH20
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Re: For me, CH's are correlated to exercise
« Reply #16 on: Jul 7th, 2003, 3:17pm » |
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Pablo - you're really making me think on this one here ??? I was a member of my junior high and high school swim teams and never had an attack either while swimming or in competition. I swam for years on two different swim teams (scholastic and competitive) and swam approximately SIX hours per day - 5 days per week.
Sorry to reply late, but the long weekend has had me a bit busy....how was the lake swim?
Keep me posted...Mia
PS - Alcohol and cigarettes were triggers for me all the time.....
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pablo
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Re: For me, CH's are correlated to exercise
« Reply #17 on: Jul 7th, 2003, 3:40pm » |
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Hi Mia!
No worries on the late reply ... I have another thread going here http://www.clusterheadaches.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=meds;action= display;num=1057598700 -- Narrowing down the triggers which I believe addresses your questions.
The lake swim was _no_ issue for me; no CH. My theory is (FWIW!) that it's my body's temperature that causes the CH: when it goes up, the CH is triggered. Physical activity causes this.
When you swim, your body is immersed in a huge heat sink: the water. The water is constantly removing the heat your body generates.
I swam again today with no CH. I tried to push it and was breathing pretty hard. I only swam for 33 minutes though because I start to get chilly in the lake. I might opt for 40 minutes tomorrow -- see if I can bear it.
ps: lucky I don't smoke! .. thx!
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stuey
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Re: For me, CH's are correlated to exercise
« Reply #18 on: Jul 7th, 2003, 3:47pm » |
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I don't yet know whether exercise does or doesn't help me since I haven't been able to run (2 knee operations in 2 years) vigorously for awhile. I wondered if orgasm, although i guess sex is considered excerise but not as strenuous as running or tennis (or maybe I'm doing something wrong) would stop the attacks but they don't seem to stop the attacks at all. My 2 cent. Stuey
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BobG
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Re: For me, CH's are correlated to exercise
« Reply #19 on: Jul 7th, 2003, 4:47pm » |
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stuey
for the sex to work you have to work up to a certain level.
Tell her
1st week.....twice a day, every day.
2nd week....4 times a day, every day. 
3rd week.....6 times a day, every day.
4 week........check into the heart attack clinic. 
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smfaison
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Re: For me, CH's are correlated to exercise
« Reply #20 on: Jul 7th, 2003, 6:31pm » |
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Exercise is definitely a trigger for me when I'm in a spell. I used to run a lot, and I would get a CH within minutes of stopping. On Saturday I mowed the yard and it was very hot. As soon as I stopped, a 4 hour CH started that was horrible. I also know after the first CH in the cycle that I can't drink any alcohol. That will bring one on in minutes too.
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pablo
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Re: For me, CH's are correlated to exercise
« Reply #21 on: Jul 7th, 2003, 7:34pm » |
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Your situation seems to parallel mine too.
For now, until I have had three days of no CH's, no running or activities that increase my body temperature. This doesn't mean I can't do physical activities but I'll just make sure to try and take cool showers to bring my temp back down.
I'm hoping to make it through the night tonight without a CH...
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oringkid
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Re: For me, CH's are correlated to exercise
« Reply #22 on: Jul 7th, 2003, 9:01pm » |
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I have been researching and thinking and trying to corrolate things here and this is what I have come up with...
Oxygen
When you run your body must speed up to compensate for the energy used. Your heart speeds up. Your temperature goes up..... AND your oxygen needs go up!!
When others for whom exercise helps exercise, I will bet that they are breathing purposefully and steadily and deeply. Almost hyperventilating... extra O2.
When you get hit at higher altitudes...less oxygen pressure = lower rate of oxygen intake and if it is a fast ascent your body has trouble compensating.
O2 works well to abort attacks
I was reading some highly complicated medical stuff on the hypothalamus and other related stuff and it mentioned oxygen and lack thereof (I know, I'm a doofus cuz I didn't bookmark it...) But look into the oxygen corrolation.... I think it is VERY relevant. The more I learn, the more I am thinking that oxygen, or more specifically an inability to properly .... what? assimilate? oxygen, causing a slight lack? may be an important piece of our puzzle.
Pablo, since you like experimentation... do this... next time you run... jog...slowly and breath in deeply and slowly and exhale fairly quickly (don't go too far cuz this might cause you to become dizzy or something... not sure) but do an " in...in...in... out....., in...in...in... out....." type of rythym and see if you still get hit. The idea is to saturate your lungs with more oxygen than your physical activity needs. Let me know how it goes.
And by the way... I don't think we have met! Welcome!
Sherry
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pablo
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Re: For me, CH's are correlated to exercise
« Reply #23 on: Jul 8th, 2003, 7:33am » |
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Hi Sherry,
I'm not sure if it's correlated to the lack of oxygen. I used to live at altitude (8,300') and I'd run/train at even higher elevations (start at 9,000', run up to 11,500') and that never seemed to trigger the events.
When I start to run, I rarely go anaerobic unless I'm doing intervals; which I was doing once a week during the spring/summer.
When I swim, I breath pretty hard because I'm trying to get a workout and so far no CH associated to a swim workout. Today when I swim, I'll try to hit my anaerobic threshold for 10 minutes and see if I get a CH. If the lake keeps me cool, I suspect I won't.
Having said all the above, all I can really say is that the above applies to _me_ and others may be affected by the lack of O2.
And thank you for the welcome! Take care!
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jannm
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Re: For me, CH's are correlated to exercise
« Reply #24 on: Jul 8th, 2003, 8:37am » |
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I've never posted before but this thread really interested me.
I can offer yet more anecdotal evidence on the Q of exercise.
I definitely have "walked" off a bad CH in cold weather: getting deep breaths of oxygen seemed to help, or at least temporarily, when I had no meds and before docs let me do more than 2x week of Imitrex injections.
I also have wondered if exercise could be a trigger--if not as powerful a trigger as alcohol. It seemed to have been a trigger once in a very short cycle I had in 1992, but wasn't sure, and that batch of headaches was preternaturally short (was it for real or a fluke?) (BTW: I get CH for 2-5 weeks every 2-4 years and they respond very well to Imitrex injections, not at all to the pills, and I'm trying Verapamil for the first time this cycle 3x day 120mg, so little because i have low heart rate and low BP, probably because I exercise regularly)
Last CH series in early 2002 I had one clearly exercise-induced cluster headache after doing aerobics. Really nasty episode. One of the worst headaches I remember in fact which I felt very happy to manage to abort with a shot about an hour after it started.
Well, more of that this time: This cycle started night of the 27th June with 2 awful CHs in 36 hrs both of which I weathered with no meds because I couldn't really believe I was in a cycle this soon (17 month gap instead of more than 2 years). Second headache (or 3rd really), I got meds and went on Verapamil. Had another HA which I aborted a couple days after that. Then Pain free from Thursday last until Monday evening when I did my first pretty fast-paced step aerobics class, w/ lots of water before and during. But the headache was full blown by the time I showered and left the gym. I wasn't even sure the Imitrex shot 45 minutes after stopping exercise would zap it. It did, then I slept 2 hours or so, completely wasted. Had shadows all evening and expected to have another one in the night but didn't, proving, I guess, that the Verap is working.
The idea of swimming is intriguing. I, too, really hate not being able to exercise. Even thought maybe I had shorter cycles and fewer headaches if I did exercise regularly but now I wonder if it's a question of the timing of the exercise in relation to headaches--e.g., that exercise brings on a HA that is trying to break through and might not have otherwise done so?
OR: is it possible that Verapamil makes it harder to exercise w/o headaches breaking through? One doctor suggested that with my low-ish BP and heart rate I might not want to exercise at all on Verapamil (I think he thought that I'd have chance of collapsing?). He suggested I wait to see how frequent the headaches in the last cycle before going on it, and in the end I didn't go on it at all.
Recent doctor, who didn't inspire my greatest faith, said nothing to counterindicate exercise. However, she also was convinced that CH is a male ailment. I don't think she'd have given me meds for it if earlier doctors hadn't already put that diagnosis in my files.
Anyhow: any other views on this exercise question would be most interesting to have, especially whether swimming is the one thing we CAN do when in a cycle.
Is there any research on this at all, whether by the Goadsby team or others?
Thanks, J.
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