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burnt-toast
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Anbesol as Abortive
« on: Jun 13th, 2005, 10:41am » |
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Too early to tell.... but encouraging.
Not sure where I read about using it - I believe is was here. Out of desperation I used Anbesol last night. It was the first time in 10 years I have aborted a CH.
1st attack (awake) - Dipped Q-Tip in Anbesol and completely coated the inside of my nostril (on the side of the Cluster). Did not go high enough to start sneezing before the unbearable pain aborted (seconds) and the CH fully aborted in less than 1 min. I was amazed.
2nd attack (asleep) - Woke with CH somewhat more progressed and followed the same process. Results were a little slower but the CH fully aborted in less than 2min.
Attacks #3, #4 and maybe #5 - that always follow, did not occur. I actually slept good last night.
I have tried O2, Imitrex, Zomig and recently Cafergot (as a preventive/not abortive). O2, Imitrex & Zomig were ineffective. Cafergot made things worse.
In 10yrs - cycles have been primarily chronic with very few short breaks of 1 to 3 months (total 9 mos. PF over 10 yrs). Current cycle has been on full for just shy of 3 years. It's been hell on earth and I have not responded to much of anything. It felt great to get what may only be a small win.
If someone here initially posted this on Anbesol, please provide updates on how things are going with it's use. I'll keep trying it and posting results.
I hope this helps others and if someone uses it please post updates good or bad.
P.S. By the way there was absolutely no discomfort using Anbesol.
Tom
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| « Last Edit: Jun 13th, 2005, 10:42am by burnt-toast » |
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Jimmy_B.
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Re: Anbesol as Abortive
« Reply #1 on: Jun 13th, 2005, 11:31am » |
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Here's to hoping it works. I own a lot of Wyeth stock  .
I checked the precautions and I didn't really see anything that could harm you from doing this...although it does say "Should not be used for more then 7 days without recommendation from your Dentist or Doctor."
The active ingredient is Benzocaine (either 10percent or 20percent...depending on Regualr or Maximum strength).
Jimmy
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burnt-toast
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Re: Anbesol as Abortive
« Reply #2 on: Jun 13th, 2005, 11:57am » |
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Clarifications - only Cafergot was used as a preventive. O2, Imitrex and Zomig were prescribed as abortives.
Jimmy_B
I recently came across a post or article about using it but can't locate it again. One night clearly doesn't make a it a success but one night of good sleep is gold to me.
I'll have to look into the 7-day thing just to be sure.
Tom
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Jimmy_B.
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Re: Anbesol as Abortive
« Reply #3 on: Jun 13th, 2005, 1:06pm » |
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Tom,
I think the 7 day thing is basically put there for a lot of O.T.C. meds. They don't want to be held liable for any problems that occur with long time use. I see that warning on a lot of OTC pain meds and such.
I'm glad you're able to get some time off from these damn headaches. Keep us posted on how it's working.
Jimmy
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vig
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Re: Anbesol as Abortive
« Reply #4 on: Jun 13th, 2005, 1:52pm » |
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Benzocaine?
Lidocaine and Cocaine are also said to be effective as last resort agents.
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Redd
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Re: Anbesol as Abortive
« Reply #5 on: Jun 13th, 2005, 2:05pm » |
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on Jun 13th, 2005, 1:52pm, vig wrote:Benzocaine?
Lidocaine and Cocaine are also said to be effective as last resort agents. |
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Last resort? Lidocaine is the only abortive I use right now. No interactions with other medications that one might be taking. Isn't 100% effective, heck nothing is. If it drops the level of a hit down a knotch or two thats good enough for me untill other treatment can be had.
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vig
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Re: Anbesol as Abortive
« Reply #6 on: Jun 13th, 2005, 2:31pm » |
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Robbins' book lists coke as a last resort medication.
didn't see lidocaine there, sorry
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Margi
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Re: Anbesol as Abortive
« Reply #7 on: Jun 13th, 2005, 2:38pm » |
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on Jun 13th, 2005, 2:31pm, vig wrote:
didn't see lidocaine there, sorry |
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Hi Paul 
Didn't Dr. Kudrow use lidocaine as his first line of defense way back when?
I think lidocaine is the drug used in that sphenopalatine block, isn't it?
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Linda_Howell
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Re: Anbesol as Abortive
« Reply #8 on: Jun 13th, 2005, 4:50pm » |
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Quote:| Didn't Dr. Kudrow use lidocaine as his first line of defense way back when? |
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Yeah. He did.
Long time ago.
Linda
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burnt-toast
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Re: Anbesol as Abortive
« Reply #9 on: Jun 14th, 2005, 10:19am » |
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Day two of Anbesol experiment
Truely strange and not sure what to make of it.
Attack #1 (awake) starts 9:52 - Applied Anbesol - relief of pain by 9:54 - CH reappears @ 9:56.
Second application stops pain by 10:00 - CH reappears at 10:05.
Third application stops pain by 10:07- CH reappears a fouth time at 10:09
Application of Anbesol completely useless and attack turned into a monster CH lasting until almost 12:20.
Strang parts -
No tearing or sinus drainage occurred during severe CH. Normally I wear out several paper towels during severe attacks.
Wife reports I was asleep by 12:30 and for the second day I managed to sleep through the night without my normal compliment of repetitive attacks - that usually run through about 4:00am.
Is it possible to have compressed 4 seperate attacks into a 2.5hr. window? I'm not sure but the experiment continues.
Tom
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Margi
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Re: Anbesol as Abortive
« Reply #10 on: Jun 14th, 2005, 10:58am » |
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on Jun 14th, 2005, 10:19am, burnt-toast wrote:
Is it possible to have compressed 4 seperate attacks into a 2.5hr. window? I'm not sure but the experiment continues.
Tom
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Tom, I would think that it's more that you confused the Beast when it first hit you....it withdrew a little with each application of Anbesol, but then it got REALLY pissed off at you for denting its armour and gave you one mother of an attack as a thank you. 
In our 20-some years of battling, I've seen different things do this for my husband too. Something would help him, almost miraculously, then slowly his body would build an immunity to the new trick and he'd end up getting hit with a vengence as a result. I've actually seen this happen for Mike with oxygen, at peak of cycle only though. Oxygen will abort initially, then the attack will resurface within half an hour. I don't think it's separate attacks, I think it's just that you're not completely killing the first one.
It could be that the beast honestly is getting wise to the lidocaine and, although you have found some initial relief, it's not going to last. I'm real sorry, but that's been our experience with Orajel (similar product), too. It did work for awhile for Mike, too.
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hdido
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Re: Anbesol as Abortive
« Reply #11 on: Jun 14th, 2005, 12:56pm » |
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Tried cocaine drops (prescription, 3% solution) a number of years ago-didn't work, didn't get high, didn't even get a numb nose. Good thing that health insurance paid for it: $400 for 1oz!
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burnt-toast
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Re: Anbesol as Abortive
« Reply #12 on: Jun 14th, 2005, 1:40pm » |
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Margi -
Appreciate the input and agree/learned a while back that in most cases nothing seems to stay ahead of these things very long. However, two nights of back to back sleep is something I haven't experienced in over 1 year.
What interests me most is the lack of follow up attacks that I am used to experiencing.
Figure if it stops working alltogether at least I managed a few small wins this time.
Tom
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burnt-toast
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Re: Anbesol as Abortive
« Reply #13 on: Jun 14th, 2005, 1:43pm » |
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hdido -
Sorry to hear about your experience. At least I get a little numbness in my nose.
I hope that something else is working somewhat better.
Tom
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Margi
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Re: Anbesol as Abortive
« Reply #14 on: Jun 14th, 2005, 4:41pm » |
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Tom, that's really cool that you're seeing a change in pattern! I love to hear of a clusterhead finding relief.
Have you looked into melatonin? It really does help a lot of folks get some sleep and keep the beast at bay. So does Dramamine and/or benadryl, but the melatonin seems to have a higher success rate.
Keep posting your results with the Anbesol. Very interesting!
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burnt-toast
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Re: Anbesol as Abortive
« Reply #15 on: Jun 14th, 2005, 8:13pm » |
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Margi -
Yes 9mg melatonin nightly. Unfortuantely when these things want me up and moving its not a request. Picking burnt-toast wasn't by accident, I really feel that way. This little break is most welcome.
Thanks again
Tom
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burnt-toast
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Re: Anbesol as Abortive
« Reply #16 on: Jun 15th, 2005, 8:24am » |
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Day three results -
Best results yet.
9:45 (awake) attach #1 - applied Anbesol, pain aborted by 9:48. Absolutely no addtional attacks last night. Slept very well for third night straight.
Not sure if this is all in my head at this point but if it is I'll take it. Just for reference my current other meds. It's been a long time since I've seen any results.
720mg Verapamil (240 x 3)
1200mg Lithium (300 x 4)
9mg melatonin (before bed)
Tom
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burnt-toast
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Re: Anbesol as Abortive
« Reply #17 on: Jun 16th, 2005, 10:33am » |
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Day 4
9:35 (awake) CH#1, applied Anbesol - Pain Free 9:38
11:15 (awake) CH#2, applied Anbesol - Pain Free 11:20
1:20 (wakened from sleep), CH#3, applied Anbesol - Pain Free 1:27.
No additional CH attacks. I'm starting to be impressed by what appear to be good abortive capabilities.
Tom
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vig
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Re: Anbesol as Abortive
« Reply #18 on: Jun 16th, 2005, 10:47am » |
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on Jun 16th, 2005, 10:33am, burnt-toast wrote:Day 4
9:35 (awake) CH#1, applied Anbesol - Pain Free 9:38
11:15 (awake) CH#2, applied Anbesol - Pain Free 11:20
1:20 (wakened from sleep), CH#3, applied Anbesol - Pain Free 1:27.
No additional CH attacks. I'm starting to be impressed by what appear to be good abortive capabilities.
Tom |
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just curious...
How do you know it's not the Verapamil/Lithium/Melatonin?
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burnt-toast
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Re: Anbesol as Abortive
« Reply #19 on: Jun 16th, 2005, 11:47am » |
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vig -
The Verapamil, Lithium and Melatonin have been my primary meds. for nearly 8 of 10 years I have had CHs. They don't stop my symptoms - but just a delay in my med. schedule (an hour or more) results in disasterous CHs. So in general I know they help.
My current cycle has been active for just shy of 3 years. This cycle has been unresponsive to abortives - O2, Imitrex, Zomig and Cafergot (prescribed as a preventative). At best I would get a 1 day break every week and then return to 2 - 4, or 5 attacks each night.
Most of these lasting between 20 & 60min. with longer episodes not uncommon.
The day I began using the Anbesol that stopped and I have had 4 consecutive very good nights. I still have to believe it's too early to tell how well it will hold up.
Could it be a combination of my meds. and Anbesol - I believe that's possible.
Could it be that the weather change is also affecting the cycle, I also believe that's possible. The few breaks I have had over 10 years were between Jul. and Sep.
I do know that when I apply Anbesol during an attack, relief occurs in most cases within a few minutes and the number of attacks has decreased.
Tom
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Margi
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Re: Anbesol as Abortive
« Reply #20 on: Jun 16th, 2005, 11:49am » |
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on Jun 16th, 2005, 10:47am, vig wrote:
just curious...
How do you know it's not the Verapamil/Lithium/Melatonin?
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Vig, verap/lith and maybe the melatonin are preventatives though. By the timing of what Tom's posting here it really does look like the anbesol is being a pretty good abortive for him. I'm thinking that the preventatives probably are doing their job in minimizing the attacks and then the anbesol is killing the break-thrus.
Kinda cool, I think. Tom, thanks for posting your progress - it's stuff like this that helps all of us!
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seasonalboomer
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Re: Anbesol as Abortive
« Reply #21 on: Jun 16th, 2005, 11:56am » |
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damn Tom, you gotta be lovin that sleep based on what you describe as your usual schedule. sleep on dude! that morning air must smell a little better.... keep it going.
amended after re-reading my post:
I suupose the morning air has the faint aroma of anbesol... 
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| « Last Edit: Jun 16th, 2005, 11:59am by seasonalboomer » |
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burnt-toast
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Re: Anbesol as Abortive
« Reply #22 on: Jun 16th, 2005, 12:13pm » |
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Quite honestly, this recent round has had me to the point of total exhaustion. Lost 20lbs. Nothing physically wrong, doc. feels its because I am always on.
My neurologist want's me to consider the deep brain implant. That's why I signed up here and started looking for assistance and information.
Saw the Anbesol post and figured what the hell can't hurt to try it while looking into alt, med. or surgical possibilities.
Last 4 days have been an absolute dream. I had truely forgotten what feeling rested was like. At this point if Anbesol smelled like diesel, who cares.
Tom
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| « Last Edit: Jun 16th, 2005, 12:22pm by burnt-toast » |
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vig
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Re: Anbesol as Abortive
« Reply #23 on: Jun 16th, 2005, 1:18pm » |
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on Jun 16th, 2005, 11:49am, Margi wrote:
I think it's kinda cool too!
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gMike
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Re: Anbesol as Abortive
« Reply #24 on: Jun 16th, 2005, 3:48pm » |
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Excellent that you're getting some relief from a product that doesn't have serious side effects.
I hope it keeps working for you!!!!
Mike
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