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cynthy
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alternative treatment
« on: Apr 21st, 2005, 10:13am » |
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Just wanted to know if any one here has had any success with LSD, I'm a 7 year chronic suffer. Thanks to Nani and Pinkfloyd (Bobw) for there information & support I have have some success with this alternative treatment, I now go 12 hours pain free ! I still get hit when I sleep every 1 or two hours, sometimes I can get in 4 hours without getting hit, O2 takes care of that within a minute or two,and haven't had a kip 10 in 2 weeks !! I almost feel guilty complaining compared to what it was like, But it sure would be nice to sleep.
I'm med free now,, and trust me I have been on everything from verapamil to prednisone (4 mg 2x day for 2 years) to lithium. nothing worked except for the prednisone and now i suffer the side effects and of course the trex, I know I abused that and now wonder what damage I have done from that. I have dosed the last two weekends and if it I still can't sleep, I mightl dose again this weekend, Iam getting everything together to start a farm,I've been reading miapet's posts and her success, so if this fails I will be ready. I know i haven't written on this board very often, (I have lurked for years) but thought if this treatment can help me, even if if is 12 hours pf, others might benefit too..
pfdan
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wifesupporter
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Re: alternative treatment
« Reply #1 on: Apr 21st, 2005, 1:09pm » |
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have you tried melatonin or gravol for the night time? it has helped my wife get some sleep.
PF wishes Steve
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Jeepgun
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Re: alternative treatment
« Reply #2 on: Apr 21st, 2005, 1:25pm » |
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LSD??? 
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JJA
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Re: alternative treatment
« Reply #3 on: Apr 21st, 2005, 1:52pm » |
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Most people are using the alternative therapy, psilocybin (shrooms), rather than LSD. I'm not sure if you are asking about LSD specifically or the"alternative" treatment in general... LSD does seem to be pretty successful, but there's not many people here that are using it (I think).
Congratulations on the progress. I hope you can get fully pain free.
Jesse
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Is it illegal because it's dangerous or is it dangerous because it's illegal? Our drug laws are ruining lives.
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vig
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Re: alternative treatment
« Reply #4 on: Apr 21st, 2005, 1:59pm » |
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on Apr 21st, 2005, 1:25pm, Frank_W wrote:| LSD??? |
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yes, LSD...
http://www.midtermpapers.com/11266.htm
It was originally investigated for headache relief.
(It has a similar chemical structure; an indole ring)
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| « Last Edit: Apr 21st, 2005, 2:00pm by vig » |
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Jeepgun
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Re: alternative treatment
« Reply #5 on: Apr 21st, 2005, 2:30pm » |
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Interesting.... I think if it came down to a choice, I'd rather have the headaches. Scary...
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vig
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Re: alternative treatment
« Reply #6 on: Apr 21st, 2005, 2:32pm » |
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not scary at all, the doses are low.
There's often less reactions/side effects than with what you've been taking with prescriptions.
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Jeepgun
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Re: alternative treatment
« Reply #7 on: Apr 21st, 2005, 2:39pm » |
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Hrmmm... The only thing I've taken is kudzu, but prior to this last cycle, I was more than willing to go through it without any medications at all.
Having seen someone in the emergency room, having a bad trip on LSD, was more than enough to convince me that I don't want anything to do with it. If messing around with LSD is worth it to some people, that's their business, I guess. 
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vig
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Re: alternative treatment
« Reply #8 on: Apr 21st, 2005, 2:44pm » |
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"messing around"
I don't think anybody with clusters is 'messing' with it like the saps you saw in the emergency room. I can bet they weren't using it to eliminate their headaches.
It was originally devised as a headache medicine.
It is being included the Harvard MAPS study on Cluster Headaches.
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Ellick
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Re: alternative treatment
« Reply #9 on: Apr 21st, 2005, 3:31pm » |
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on Apr 21st, 2005, 2:39pm, Frank_W wrote:Hrmmm... The only thing I've taken is kudzu, but prior to this last cycle, I was more than willing to go through it without any medications at all.
Having seen someone in the emergency room, having a bad trip on LSD, was more than enough to convince me that I don't want anything to do with it. If messing around with LSD is worth it to some people, that's their business, I guess. |
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Frank. You don't take enough to trip. It is a very mild dose and has been well researched by loads of CH sufferers. Look in to it a bit more with an open mind. People who have bad 'trips' are drug abusers. We are most definitely NOT. I am pain free from two very small doses of psilocybin. The effect was less than from drugs like triptans (no pun intended). If anything the experience was midly pleasurable like a couple of drinks over a few hours, WITH ONE BIG DIFFERENCE. There was no headache AT THE END.
Ellick.
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Jeepgun
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Re: alternative treatment
« Reply #10 on: Apr 21st, 2005, 3:47pm » |
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Thanks, Ellick. I'm not condemning or judging anyone else's choice at all, whether they choose to use psilocybin or LSD. It's just not the choice I would personally make for myself. That's all I'm saying.
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tommyD
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Re: alternative treatment
« Reply #11 on: Apr 21st, 2005, 6:07pm » |
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Actually, there are indications LSD may be a little more effective than psilocybin for cluster treatment. ClusterBusters recommend psilocybin over LSD for practical and legal reasons. A few:
LSD is only available from dealers in illegal drugs. Psilocybin mushrooms can be grown yourself or found growing wild - though eating wild shrooms is not recommended unless you are expert at mushroom identification.
Dosage is easier to control with shrooms. It can be impossible to know how much LSD is in a hit of blotter, and the amount involved is measured in micrograms - very hard to work with outside a well-equipped chem lab.
Shrooms are legal in some countries where LSD is not.
As for bad trips, any hallucinogen - LSD, psilocybin, LSA, whatever - can cause a bad trip if one takes too much or does not consider two very important factors: set and setting.
Set refers to the mind set - mood and attitude - of the person taking the hallucinogen. If you fear the hallucinatory experience, you could be in for a rough ride - the hallucinogen may well raise that fear to extreme levels. If you understand that the trip will end soon enough, and that the experience is not real - that is NOT the devil growing out of the capet to eat your soul - you are much more likely to have an enjoyable experience.
Setting refers to the environment is which you experience the hallucinogen. Plan the treatment for a place you feel secure, have only friends you trust around you to babysit, perferably someone with experience. Arrange things so there will be no interruptions, no important tasks, no uncontrolled situations. Dead heads may like to trip at concerts, but for most folks it's best to avoid crowds, strangers, uncontrolled situations, driver's tests, biker bars (unless you're a biker), jury duty, SAT tests.... Set yourself up with your favorite tunes, films (comedies are best), other entertainment that's not too intense.
And remember, doses effective for CH can be small - no heavy tripping is required, and in fact, larger "seeing God" doses may be counterproductive for CH treatment. All most folks need is enough to get the giggles. Some, including me, have found success with doses so small there is almost no psychoactive effect at all.
By the way, the worst trip I was ever on was caused by over-the-counter antihistamines. That was even worse than the PCP I took in 1973 - It was sold as mescaline, and I thought I was so street smart because I figured it was actually LSD.
And the PCP was worse than the way-too-large hit of blotter I took at the Watkins Glen festival (with the Dead, the Band and the Allman Brothers). Do NOT take LSD in the middle of 700,000 people! I didn't freak out, but it wasn't fun.
-tommyD
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Chillrmn1
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Re: alternative treatment
« Reply #12 on: Apr 21st, 2005, 6:15pm » |
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Desperation in the pursuit of finding relief from the pain of clusters has led many on a path they may have never thought they would journey before. This type of alternative treatment has resulted in relief and effectiveness without the side effects associated with traditional medications for many. I know this to be true, I'm one of the many.
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BobG
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Re: alternative treatment
« Reply #13 on: Apr 21st, 2005, 8:42pm » |
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LSD? Can you say Sansert? Worked for me.
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Sophie
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Re: alternative treatment
« Reply #14 on: Apr 21st, 2005, 8:50pm » |
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Frank:
After taking triptons, beta blockers and Topamax---I was desperate and determined not to be on those drugs and the ones like them. I am 60 something years old and really didn't want to lose my otherwise good health. I also didn't want to spend every last dime on the prescriptions. So, out of desperation I went looking for an answer and found it at Clusterbusters, along with
some very good advice and guidence. For me it was the only way. I am early in the treatment and can't report sucess yet but I have high hopes. And that's more than I had a year ago. What CB is doing through a study at Harvard will hopefully bring relief to many that suffer from this horrible pain. I am looking out for myself but at the same time I could play a part in helping others.
I had some hang ups about the treatment (like you) but for me it was right. Sophie 
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cynthy
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Re: alternative treatment
« Reply #15 on: Apr 22nd, 2005, 8:49am » |
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I know this is a very controversial subject and I don't expect replys from those of you who disagree,
I would also imagine that this treatment is for the clusterheads who kip 10 at least 3 times a day, with lower kips in between. Iam not into illegal drugs and experimented very little with pot in my younger days, and to say that I wasn't very afraid to try this would be a lie, I was terrified, but you know what, when you get to the point (I hope you never do) that living is just not worth living with this kind of pain every single day, and waking up or trying to go to sleep, you know that hell will be there waiting for you, Its not living at all and I would rather not, so at this point what do I have to lose,
A trip to the emergency room, or maybe some pain free days,
you choose,, we all do,, this is my choice
pfdan
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miapet
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Re: alternative treatment
« Reply #16 on: Apr 22nd, 2005, 9:06am » |
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tommyD did a fantastic job in outlining the treatments! thank you tommyD!
Agreed, the alternative isn't something everyone is willing to try, and that's their choice . . .just as it is the choice of those willing to try it is t heir choice to try it .. .as VIG said, you take such a small amount, you aren't trying for the one-with-the-universe effect . . .so that takes some of the anxiety out of the whole thing *smiles*
*YAY* about you're improvements!!!
*positive light and energy*
miapet
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cynthy
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Re: alternative treatment
« Reply #17 on: Apr 22nd, 2005, 9:22am » |
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Thank-you miapet,,
The dose is small and just had the giggles, The reason I tried this treatment is I haven't started the schroom farm yet, can I ask if you grew your own ? it does seem a bit complicated, even though bobw says it is relatively easy..
By the way, I just ready through the entire thread yesterday, Not sure how I missed it,, but Iam so happy for you and D,,How long was he chronic ? 20 years? i can't imagine,, and for you to be the strong one for so long. You have to be one in a million !
pfdan
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hdido
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Re: alternative treatment
« Reply #18 on: Apr 22nd, 2005, 10:14am » |
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I worry about the use of LSD. There are the legal and moral questions: by purchasing LSD, aside from breaking the law and taking the risk of getting caught, you are also helping to keep the same drug dealers that sell crack, speed, heroin, illegal fentanyl, etc. in business and we all know the lives that have and are being ruined by illegal drugs. Secondly, you never know what you are getting when you buy LSD (or other street drugs). The dealers are interested in profit and really don't give a shit about you or your pain or anything else and if they happen to be out of LSD one day they'll sell you god knows what. If it is LSD, there is no quality control, so medically you are really taking a chance. Mushrooms are a different matter as you can grow them and get them legally in places, but at the risk of sounding like some right wing "Reefer Madness" type, which I am not, I personally, even if I have to suffer, don't want to get involved with keeping drug dealers in business-they are scum, they kill and ruin lives and for me, the moral cost would be too high. I do hope that you read all of the information on this site and try something else.
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vig
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Re: alternative treatment
« Reply #19 on: Apr 22nd, 2005, 10:24am » |
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I don't believe any of us are patronizing drug dealers...
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Jeepgun
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Re: alternative treatment
« Reply #20 on: Apr 22nd, 2005, 10:27am » |
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Whatever form relief takes, I'm all for it, to a point. I want to see EVERYONE free of pain, but the questions of dosage, quality control, and the ethical considerations are, to me, a few of the most worrisome aspects of this option. Be careful, folks. That's all I'm saying.
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JJA
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Re: alternative treatment
« Reply #21 on: Apr 22nd, 2005, 10:32am » |
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on Apr 22nd, 2005, 10:14am, hdido wrote:| I worry about the use of LSD. There are the legal and moral questions: by purchasing LSD, aside from breaking the law and taking the risk of getting caught, you are also helping to keep the same drug dealers that sell crack, speed, heroin, illegal fentanyl, etc. in business and we all know the lives that have and are being ruined by illegal drugs. |
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I'm guessing you never bought LSD. If you go to your local street corner drug dealer, you could probably get crack, heroin, speed and maybe pot, but if you ask for LSD you'd be out of luck. LSD "dealers" are usually separate from the violent drug culture. LSD in the case presented here is actually "saving" a life...freeing someone from pain. BTW, anyone buying cigarettes, sends money to "evil drug dealers" (just my opinion).
Talk about ruining lives.. what about the laws that cause this situation. I'm not saying all drugs should be legal, but we need huge reform. The only reason buying LSD is worse than buying cigarettes or alcohol is because it's illegal.
Jesse
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Is it illegal because it's dangerous or is it dangerous because it's illegal? Our drug laws are ruining lives.
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hdido
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Re: alternative treatment
« Reply #22 on: Apr 22nd, 2005, 12:30pm » |
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LSD is produced illegally and is a part of drug dealers' inventory. While your local crack dealer may not carry it on him/her to sell, I am certain that he/she can obtain it. I think that some people choose to deceive themselves about the nature of the drug trade because perhaps the local LSD dealer is someone who does not look like nor act like the stereotypical drug dealer. LSD is a dangerous drug and has caused significant problems for many people over the years since it was introduced on the street. I can guarantee yo that if a LSD dealer gets the drugs in on "credit" and does not pay his source the money owed, he will be dealt with rather harshly, just like the crack or heroin dealer in the same situation. Ecstasy and the other "designer drugs" have not only caused health problems but also are a part of the supply chain that brings in the other "bad" drugs that nice white people don't take. Don't fool yourself, by purchasing LSD you are feeding an organization, or rather organizations, that corrupt people, hurt people and murder people-the players are not nice guys, even though you may meet them in an expensive club or on a college campus and not in some poor run-down neighborhood. Try buying LSD on credit form your supplier and then don't pay him-I think that you may find that you may pray to have CH pain. Yes, tobacco companies sell a dangerous product, but they don't break your legs if you can't pay for your shipment of cigarettes or kill you if you try to rip them off. Be careful and think before you buy-remember, you never really know what you are getting.
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sandie99
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Re: alternative treatment
« Reply #23 on: Apr 22nd, 2005, 1:02pm » |
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on Apr 21st, 2005, 2:30pm, Frank_W wrote:| Interesting.... I think if it came down to a choice, I'd rather have the headaches. Scary... |
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I agree.
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Pinkfloyd
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Re: alternative treatment
« Reply #24 on: Apr 22nd, 2005, 1:12pm » |
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hdido,
I'm not here to argue about the pitfalls of LSD or any other hallucinogen, but...it sounds very much like you get your info from D.A.R.E. which is full of misinformation used to scare kids straight.
Yes there are legitimate ocncerns with LSD and they have been outlined above and explains why Clusterbusters has chosen to concentrate on psilocybin rather than LSD. Knowing what you're getting is probably the most important feature.
The controlled trials at Harvard will include LSD, as well as psilocybin, simply because it "appears" that LSD may be even more effective. Under controlled circumstances, and knowing exactly what is being administered and the exact dosages, will hopefully, in the end, tell us why it works, and how it works. Testing them both will answer many questions that will hopefully someday lead to the most effective, legal treatment.
LSD was known to be an effective treatment in the past. The drug mfgr's were asked to make a non-hallucinogenic, legal alternative. Sansert was the outcome. Worked well for many but had to be taken regularly and caused many serious problems. More so I would say than LSD ever did.
All that said, one is more likely to be given LSD free than having to buy it from a "dealer" just as with psilocybin. (that doesn't eliminate the problem of purity though)The "dealers" you refer to don't carry them because for the most part, they are not addictive as are the other drugs you want to lump them in with. A guy could make more and have a steady client list if he was selling Starbucks coffee than hallucinogens.
Buying something on credit and not paying is always dangerous. Try not paying the IRS. They may not break your legs but will surely break your heart.
Generalizations about the dangers of hallucinogens, such as the following quote, won't cut it here.
"LSD is a dangerous drug and has caused significant problems for many people over the years since it was introduced on the street."
20,000 people a year DIE from the use of NSAIDS.
100,000 people a year DIE from doctor/hospital MISTAKES. I can dig up the links to the facts if you'd like.
1 out of 10 people that undergo open brain surgery DIE on the table but our government (and you I presume) approves of microvascular decompression as a viable treatment for cluster headaches.
You may not belive this but what we are trying to find is something SAFER than what is now available for cluster treatments. Yes, hallucinogens can be dangerous...no question or argument there. Clusters themselves are also dangerous. There is a "significant" number of people that attempt suicide. There is a significant number of people that suffer permanent damage from the use of "legal" treatments. I can produce numbers to back up my use of the word significant.
I know you're trying to help and I do appreciate it. We do need to look very closely at ALL the possible problems.
peace~
Bobw
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