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Topic: 5-HT activity in Kudzu (Read 33481 times) |
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floridian
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Just came across this - an ingredient in kudzu stimulates the 5-HT1 receptors (like the triptans) and blocks the 5-HT2 receptors (like olanzapine, maybe the long term effect of clusterbusters). Wish they were more specific about which 5-ht1 and 5-ht2 receptors were involved.
Whole kudzu root contains lots of other stuff, and may have a different effect, although treatment of migraine is one traditional use for kuzu.
Quote:J Pharmacol Sci. 2004 Dec;96(4):420-7. Epub 2004 Dec 3.
Puerarin acts through brain serotonergic mechanisms to induce thermal effects.
Chueh FS, Chang CP, Chio CC, Lin MT. Department of Applied Life Science, Taichung Healthcare and Management University, Taichung, Taiwan 413.
The present study was attempted to investigate the effect of puerarin, an isoflavone compound isolated from Pueraria lobata, on both the basal body temperature and pyrogenic fever in unanesthetized, restrained rats. Intraperitoneal administration of puerarin or crude extracts of Pueraria lobata elicited hypothermia. Direct administration of a small amount of puerarin into the lateral cerebral ventricle produced the same extent of hypothermia. Systemic or central administration of puerarin causes a decrease in both colonic temperature and hypothalamic 5-HT efflux in rats. The puerarin-induced hypothermia and decreased 5-HT efflux in the hypothalamus were attenuated by selective depletion of hypothalamic 5-HT produced by intracerebroventricular injection of 5,7-dihydroxytryptamine. Furthermore, the puerarin-induced hypothermia was almost completely abolished by treatment with a 5-HT2A-receptor agonist (DOI or quipazine) or a 5-HT1A-receptor antagonist [(-)-pindolol]. A 5-HT2A-receptor antagonist (ketanserin) or a 5-HT1A-receptor agonist (8-OH-DPAT) had additive effects with puerarin. Intracerebroventricular administration of interleukin-1 caused an increase in both colonic temperature and hypothalamic 5-HT efflux. The interleukin-1-induced hyperthermia and increased 5-HT efflux in the hypothalamus were attenuated by treatment with systemic administration of puerarin. The data indicate that puerarin exerts its hypothermic and antipyretic effects by activating 5-HT1 receptor and/or antagonizing 5-HT2A receptors in the hypothalamus. |
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| « Last Edit: Feb 2nd, 2005, 1:29pm by floridian » |
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floridian
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #1 on: Feb 2nd, 2005, 1:33pm » |
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Good luck digging those roots without a back hoe - like anything kudzu related, they can be monsterous! 
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| « Last Edit: Feb 2nd, 2005, 1:41pm by floridian » |
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vietvet2tours
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #2 on: Feb 2nd, 2005, 1:41pm » |
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Kudzu is starch plain and simple.You can get it dried and powdered at the health food stores.
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thomas
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #3 on: Feb 2nd, 2005, 1:44pm » |
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There is lots of that stuff growing in Mississippi.
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Religion and sex are powerplays. Manipulate the people for the money they pay. Selling skin, selling God, the numbers look the same on their credit cards. Triptans cause rebounds. Learn it, believe it, live it. I use triptans as the absolute LAST RESORT when treating my CH.
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floridian
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #4 on: Feb 2nd, 2005, 1:45pm » |
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on Feb 2nd, 2005, 1:41pm, vietvet2tours wrote:| Kudzu is starch plain and simple.You can get it dried and powdered at the health food stores. |
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The root is rich in starch - it can be ground up and washed to purify the starch. But the root is also a rich source of medicinal compounds - this same compound pueraria has been shown to decrease alcohol cravings. Most of the medical compounds are probably removed in the starch production process.
The vines can also be made into a fabric that is better than linen! But it is labor intensive, and pretty rare these days.
Kudzu root also has strong anti-bacterial effects, reducing contamination of foods by 6-7 log (99.9999% reduction):
Quote:Lett Appl Microbiol. 2004;39(4):319-25.
Antibacterial effect of crude water-soluble arrowroot (Puerariae radix) tea extracts on food-borne pathogens in liquid medium.
Kim S, Fung DY. Department of Animal Sciences and Industry, Food Microbiology Laboratory, Kansas State University, Manhattan, KS 47907-2009, USA. kim98@purdue.edu |
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| « Last Edit: Feb 2nd, 2005, 1:52pm by floridian » |
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nani
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #6 on: Feb 2nd, 2005, 1:50pm » |
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on Feb 2nd, 2005, 1:45pm, floridian wrote:
The root is rich in starch - it can be ground up and washed to purify the starch. But the root is also a rich source of medicinal compounds - this same compound pueraria has been shown to decrease alcohol cravings. Most of the medical compounds are probably removed in the starch production process.
The the vines can also be made into a fabric that is better than linen!
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So, do we start picking, drying and smoking it? Can someone send me some? I'll pretty much smoke anything... 
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| « Last Edit: Feb 2nd, 2005, 1:50pm by nani » |
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floridian
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #7 on: Feb 2nd, 2005, 1:57pm » |
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The root is available dried, in slices. It is boiled into tea - usually for 45 minutes or more. I have also seen it in capsules at health food stores.
Just found this:
Quote:Kudzu root
Long-term prevention may also be assisted by Kudzu root, known as Pueraria root in Chinese medicine. Pueraria was tested for activity against migraine in the late 1970s in China in an uncontrolled study. (Kiuzian, Xiuqin) Out of fifty-three persons tested, thirteen had complete remission of their migraines for at least three months. Another twelve persons reported at least an 80% reduction. Nineteen others had a lengthening of the time between attacks. Altogether about half the subjects had a complete or major reduction in migraines, and more than three-fourths gained some benefit. The Kudzu vine is ubiquitous in the American South. It is also a cooling herb, and a guiding symptom in Chinese medicine is stiffness of the upper back and neck. It is used as a long-term tonic herb, and probably acts on the vascular system through it flavonoid content.
http://medherb.com/Therapeutics/Nervous_-_Remedy_Differentials_in_Mi graine.htm
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The PDR says a typical daily dose is 9-15 grams (28 grams = 1 ounce), so that is 1/3 - 1/2 ounce, roughly.
http://www.pdrhealth.com/drug_info/nmdrugprofiles/herbaldrugs/101640.sht ml
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| « Last Edit: Feb 2nd, 2005, 2:01pm by floridian » |
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thomas
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #8 on: Feb 2nd, 2005, 2:10pm » |
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on Feb 2nd, 2005, 1:50pm, nani wrote:
So, do we start picking, drying and smoking it? Can someone send me some? I'll pretty much smoke anything...
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It will overtake your property, very hardy vegetation.
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Religion and sex are powerplays. Manipulate the people for the money they pay. Selling skin, selling God, the numbers look the same on their credit cards. Triptans cause rebounds. Learn it, believe it, live it. I use triptans as the absolute LAST RESORT when treating my CH.
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ozzy
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #10 on: Feb 2nd, 2005, 2:36pm » |
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It seems it acts on 5-HT(2C) receptors, according to this:
Quote:NPI-031G (puerarin) reduces anxiogenic effects of alcohol withdrawal or benzodiazepine inverse or 5-HT2C agonists.
Overstreet DH, Kralic JE, Morrow AL, Ma ZZ, Zhang YW, Lee DY.
Skipper Bowles Center for Alcohol Studies, University of North Carolina School of Medicine, 3009 Thurston-Bowles Building, CB #7178, Chapel Hill, NC 27599-7178, USA. dhover@med.unc.edu
Because extracts of kudzu have been used as a hangover remedy in China for many centuries, we tested the ability of NPI-031G (puerarin), an isoflavone isolated from kudzu, to counteract anxiogenic effects associated with withdrawal from chronic alcohol exposure. NPI-O31G (50 and 150 mg/kg ip) significantly increased the social interaction and locomotor activity reduced by withdrawal from 17 days of alcohol (7%) diet. The effects of NPI-031G resembled those of the benzodiazepine antagonist, flumazenil (5 mg/kg), and the 5-HT(2C) antagonist, SB 242084 (1 mg/kg). In a separate study, control rats were pretreated with NPI-031G (30 min) and then given the anxiogenic compounds DMCM, a benzodiazepine inverse agonist, or Ro 600175, a 5-HT(2C) agonist. NPI-031G significantly counteracted the reduction in social interaction induced by either compound. To identify a potential mechanism of action of NPI-031G, synaptoneurosomes were isolated from the cerebral cortex of untreated rats and chloride uptake assays were carried out. NPI-031G did not have any effect on the stimulation of chloride uptake by muscimol, a GABA(A) agonist. However, it reduced the potentiation of muscimol-stimulated chloride uptake by flunitrazepam, a benzodiazepine agonist, at a concentration of 100 microM. A reduction in [3H]flunitrazepam binding was also seen at this concentration. These findings are consistent with NPI-031G being a weak benzodiazepine site antagonist.
PMID: 12895679 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] |
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...interesting
Ozzy
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Gator
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #11 on: Feb 2nd, 2005, 2:41pm » |
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on Feb 2nd, 2005, 2:16pm, floridian wrote:
LMAO 
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Bob P
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #12 on: Feb 2nd, 2005, 2:49pm » |
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Quote:| Systemic or central administration of puerarin causes a decrease in both colonic temperature |
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The stuff will make your butt hole cold!!!
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floridian
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #13 on: Feb 2nd, 2005, 2:52pm » |
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Good find, Ozzy!
So the first article says 5-ht2a, the second says 5-ht2c (could be both, they were measuring different things).
That only leaves the question of whether there is a triptan-like effect from the 5-ht1 action ... they mention 5-ht1A effects, triptans are mostly 5-ht1B/D ??? Could there be a new non-triptan like effect that blocks the pain?
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| « Last Edit: Feb 2nd, 2005, 2:54pm by floridian » |
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floridian
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #14 on: Feb 2nd, 2005, 3:01pm » |
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on Feb 2nd, 2005, 2:49pm, Bob P wrote:
The stuff will make your butt hole cold!!! |
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So will melatonin. The problem is clear - we are hot a$$eS full of steaming $hit. So chill a bit, everyone!
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #15 on: Feb 2nd, 2005, 3:36pm » |
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on Feb 2nd, 2005, 3:01pm, floridian wrote:
So will melatonin. The problem is clear - we are hot a$$eS full of steaming $hit. So chill a bit, everyone! |
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Well, if THAT's the problem maybe shoving an ice cube...uh...nevermind.
Good articles. Alternative treatment possibilities? Worth looking into.
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ozzy
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #16 on: Feb 2nd, 2005, 5:00pm » |
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Ok, looking for more 5-HT related stuff and puerarin, I came across a different article from a Chinese Pharmacology site:
www.chinaphar.com
The article title:
" 5-HT1B receptor augmented 5-HT vasoconstrictor response of pulmonary artery in monocrotaline-induced pulmonary hypertensive rats
WANG Huai-Liang, DONG Xu, ZHANG Xin-Hua, XING Jun "
In this case they found that monocrotaline acts on the 5-HT1(B/D) receptors (much like Imitrex) The full article in pdf can be seen here:
http://www.chinaphar.com/1671-4083/22/269.pdf
Interesting as well..
Ozzy
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nani
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #17 on: Feb 7th, 2005, 8:13am » |
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I don't want to jump the gun, or jinx myself, but...
I started taking kudzu root, Bcomplex and trace minerals (for the magnesium and lithium in the combo) on Friday. I can honestly say that on Sat and Sun I had no more than 3 K1 shadows. Saturday's shadow lasted about 3 hours...yesterdays were only about an hour each. I'm still on the verap, lithium and Neurontin...but so far...so good. 
Edited to add: thanks, flo!
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| « Last Edit: Feb 7th, 2005, 8:22am by nani » |
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Pinkfloyd
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #18 on: Feb 7th, 2005, 11:22am » |
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Interesting stuff Flo..
maybe the way it grows, it's trying to tell us something. like..."HEY...what do I need to do to get your attention.....I can help!!!!"
With it being so plentiful I can see why we never hear anything about it for treating headaches. 
Paul...point one of those shoots off into the direction of Chicago and I'll dig some roots up on friday LOL
Bobw
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #19 on: Feb 10th, 2005, 1:41am » |
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on Feb 7th, 2005, 8:13am, nani wrote:I don't want to jump the gun, or jinx myself, but...
I started taking kudzu root, Bcomplex and trace minerals (for the magnesium and lithium in the combo) on Friday. I can honestly say that on Sat and Sun I had no more than 3 K1 shadows. Saturday's shadow lasted about 3 hours...yesterdays were only about an hour each. I'm still on the verap, lithium and Neurontin...but so far...so good.
Edited to add: thanks, flo! |
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Well, Nani. Day 6. How goes it so far?
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nani
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #20 on: Feb 10th, 2005, 8:46am » |
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Minor shadows and a couple of "icepick" type pains...I'm getting a little excited now! Nothing over a k2. I'm not going to brag, per se....but I havent felt this good for this long in at least 4 years.
As you know, I had it realtively easy compared to most chronics. I always felt the Neurontin helped to "dull" all of my HAs...but I was getting so tired of the everyday pain I was ready to go "alternative". I tried this as a last resort. If I continue this way, I feel it's at a level I can live with (actually, almost happily live with).
I should note that when I bought the kudzu, I didn't really read the ingredients. I bought something called Kudzu Recovery which is actually a blend of herbs, but predominantly kudzu. This blend was formulated for alcohol recovery.
I would definitley recommend that people try it.
**crossing fingers, knocking wood** So far, so good.
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ozzy
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #21 on: Feb 10th, 2005, 9:30am » |
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Nani,
Congratulation on your success! I have a couple of questions. You mentioned that your blend contains other herbs. Could you list them for us. It may be of help.
Also the infor I have seen on kudzu, says that about 30-120 mg 2-3 times day of the concentrated form should be used.
How much are you taking? How often?
Thanks for being a guinea pig. Gotta keep looking myself ofr other stores near by, I want to try this.
Ozzy
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nani
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #22 on: Feb 10th, 2005, 9:46am » |
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Sure oz...
I'm taking 750mg per day
other ingredients:
kudzu flower, hovenia fruit, coptis root, poria sclerotium, zhu ling sclerotium, bai zhu atractyodes rhizome, codonopsis root, shen qu-massa fermentata extract, cardoman fruit and ginger root. The brand is:
Planetary formulas and I got it at a local herb store. It must be a common brand because i live in a small town and the stores inventory is pretty limited.
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Redd
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #23 on: Feb 10th, 2005, 10:14am » |
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I googled this and found what I think is the product...
Nani could you confirm?
http://www.iherb.com/kudzu2.html
Ozzy I'd be happy to run a side by side trial with you to see what happens I'm pretty sick of this CHit myself here.
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| « Last Edit: Feb 10th, 2005, 10:15am by Redd » |
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nani
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #24 on: Feb 10th, 2005, 10:19am » |
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Yes, Pegg...the classic Chinese formula. I'm sorry that I didn't try it by itself first. As I said...I also added B complex and trace minerals. And I have not stopped taking my "regular" prevents....yet
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