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Topic: Source for Fresh Mushrooms in the UK (Read 1191 times) |
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Flash
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Source for Fresh Mushrooms in the UK
« on: Jun 20th, 2004, 9:09am » |
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http://www.potseeds.co.uk/mushrooms/fresh.html
This is a reputable company, 30g of fresh cubensis can be purchased on-line for £14. The shrooms are delivered vacuum packet for freshness. 30g is enough for ~3 doses.
Unfortunately I am unable to post this link on the UK board since OUCH (UK) would rather that we continue to suffer that make use of this particular legal, effective, inexpensive, and safe treatment. Go figure.
Please note that this supplier will not ship to anywhere that shrooms are illegal.
Good Luck!
Flash
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SteveY
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Re: Source for Fresh Mushrooms in the UK
« Reply #1 on: Jun 20th, 2004, 9:44am » |
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Craig,
I can assure you that OUCH UK do not want anyone to suffer CH.
I have had some disagreements with the posting policy, but it's the law. Yes it's daft we can't talk about them but we can buy them, but the law is an ass as we all know.
Back to the mushies, I'm going to try them soon, will let you know results.
ps What level trip would 10g give?
Steve
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chrismo
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Re: Source for Fresh Mushrooms in the UK
« Reply #2 on: Jun 20th, 2004, 10:02pm » |
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30g divided by 3...... 10 grams per dose??? Isn't that a way too high dose? In the past I've used a little over a half a gram each dose.
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Pinkfloyd
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Re: Source for Fresh Mushrooms in the UK
« Reply #3 on: Jun 21st, 2004, 1:22am » |
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on Jun 20th, 2004, 10:02pm, chrismo wrote:| 30g divided by 3...... 10 grams per dose??? Isn't that a way too high dose? In the past I've used a little over a half a gram each dose. |
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I assume you use half a gram of "dried" vs. the fresh mushrooms discussed above. Fresh shrooms are about 90% water. So, 10 grams fresh equal about 1 gram dried.
Just a curious question about UK law. Believe me when I say that USA laws are about as whacky as they come so I understand when one law doesn't jive with another but...
How can it be against the law to discuss mushrooms on a UK based website, but they can be sold on a UK based website?
Is this based upon our US military law of "don't ask, don't tell?" You can do it as long as you don't talk about it?
PF
I know, I know.....but somebody had to ask. 
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SteveY
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Re: Source for Fresh Mushrooms in the UK
« Reply #4 on: Jun 21st, 2004, 5:00am » |
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Pink
It's not that you can't talk about shrooms on a UK website.
It's the OUCH UK website you can't.
The reason is OUCH UK holds a charitable status and the benefits that go with that i.e Tax free donations etc.
The use of shrooms i.e ingesting drying, freezing etc is still illegal, buying fresh isn't. I know weird.
The point is if OUCH UK condone use of shrooms (class A drug) it would loose the charity status and probably be shut down. That would leave the sufferers old and those yet to come with no support for the issues of CH we face in the UK.
It's the law thats an ass.
The future (for all OUCH denominations) should be to get official recognition of the benefits of MM's, via official medical research, such as is begining in Harvard, official trials, and official prescribing.
As with cannabis for MS, we have to start somewhere, you and others have already made great advances in pushing this therapy to the medical world.
I hope one day some form of regulated dose is available from GP's officialy.
Then not only could we talk about it on OUCH UK, we could recommend it.
Cheers
Steve
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Pinkfloyd
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Re: Source for Fresh Mushrooms in the UK
« Reply #5 on: Jun 21st, 2004, 9:30am » |
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Thanks Steve.
I understand discussions on this subject could go into activities that would/could be considered illegal in the UK.
Has this been considered? Could OUCH UK write the Home Office and explain that people are using this treatment and that OUCH UK wants to inform people NOT to do anything illegal and can explain to its members what can be done legally. OUCH UK could take the position of telling people not to break the law.
An example would be; Someone asks how to dry and store mushrooms. OUCH UK responds by telling them: "It is illegal to dry and store mushrooms. Do not break the law. You can buy fresh mushrooms and they can be injested in this form only."
I know it could be viewed as trying to step around the law and maybe OUCH UK doesn't want to walk this fine line as it could still get into trouble. It would also be a lot of work on someones part to keep up with such a thing.
You (OUCH) could be informing people not to break the law and at the same time discussing the treatment....I think.
I imagine this has allbeen discussed by OUCH UK but,
just a thought from someone trying to think outside the box without knowing the size or shape of the box.
PF
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forgetfulnot
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Re: Source for Fresh Mushrooms in the UK
« Reply #6 on: Jun 21st, 2004, 1:00pm » |
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Quote:| The point is if OUCH UK condone use of shrooms (class A drug) it would loose the charity status and probably be shut down. |
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Hmmmmm, if that is the case I must wonder how this org doe's basically the same thing, for years in the US without being striped of thier status or shut down.
http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=3380
Are our laws all that diferent?
Lee
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Flash
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Re: Source for Fresh Mushrooms in the UK
« Reply #7 on: Jun 21st, 2004, 2:53pm » |
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on Jun 21st, 2004, 5:00am, SteveY wrote:Pink
The point is if OUCH UK condone use of shrooms (class A drug) it would loose the charity status and probably be shut down. That would leave the sufferers old and those yet to come with no support for the issues of CH we face in the UK.
Steve |
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Discussion on the legal application of using fresh shrooms to treat CH would not cause any problems for OUCH (UK). In may however be necessary to prohibit, censor, or delete any threads advocating any illegal preperation of the shrooms such as drying.
There are many instances where somethings legality depends on the context of it's use/undertaking:
Buggery. It is legal in the UK for a man to bugger a man but it is illegal for a man to bugger a woman. Despite the potential for buggery to be applied illegally, the Terrance Higgins Trust still manages to operate as a charitable organisation.
Alcohol. It is legal in the UK to consume alcohol. It is also legal to brew alcohol through the process of fermentation. It is however illegal to distill alcohol without a special license. Despite the potential for illegal preparation of alcohol, homebrew website exist, as does the charitable organisation Alcoholics Anonymous.
Wierd huh?
The bottom line is that some person(s) on the board of OUCH (UK) Trustees do not PERSONALLY agree with the use of shrooms in any way shape or form. Therefore OUCH (UK) has elected to withhold all information relating to the LEGAL use of this treatment, including the LEGAL clinical trials that are to be performed at a world renouned American institution.
This person(s) obviously considers it more important to eradicate the use of shrooms than to relieve the pain of those suffering with CH.
This person(s) obviously believes that it is preferrable for UK CH sufferers to suffer with CH rather than be made aware of this treatment.
This person(s) is abusing their status within a charitable organisation to impose their personal morality on others.
Whenever this subject has been raised the response of certain people within OUCH (UK) (not including you Steve) has been to attempt to discredit both this treatment and those of us associated with it.
BTW nobody in the UK or the rest of the world is dumb enough to believe OUCH (UK)s interpretation of UK law.
Flash
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Superpain
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Re: Source for Fresh Mushrooms in the UK
« Reply #8 on: Jun 21st, 2004, 5:44pm » |
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WTF is "Buggery"? 
Is that like taking in the ass? 
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Chris
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majic
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Re: Source for Fresh Mushrooms in the UK
« Reply #9 on: Jun 21st, 2004, 6:04pm » |
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I was so annoyed by OUCH(UK)'s strange attitude to this that I emailed and asked them why they refused to even discuss the matter...this was their reply:
OUCH UK has published a clearly stated posting Policy and we continue to reserve the Right to remove mention/discussion of the use of any illegal substances from our web site.
Specifically in respect of magic mushrooms, the Legal Advice we’ve obtained is that in this country it is perfectly in order for anyone to pick (or grow their own) raw magic mushrooms – you can even buy them from shops. However, it is illegal here in the UK to extract the active component Psilocybin from these mushrooms (by drying them or stewing them for instance). The moment you alter their raw state or prepare them in any way they are deemed to be a Class A drug under the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971. This is heavy duty offending in the eyes of the Law. Possession of a Class A drug carries a custodial sentence of up to seven years: the maximum sentence for supplying a Class A drug to anyone else carries a life sentence.
Your question as to what can and cannot be allowed/discussed on a UK web site is irrelevant to us. The OUCH UK site is a business site, not a private one. Our organisation is a Company Limited by Guarantee, properly lodged with Companies House. All the Trustees are Directors, albeit they run the organisation on an unpaid basis. After first registering OUCH UK as a Company, we then applied for Charitable status. Because of the way the organisation is set up, it is the Trustees (not the membership) who are held responsible - both jointly and severally under the Director’s Liability Act - for the way we conduct all aspects of OUCH UK. None of us are prepared as individuals to be held legally liable by being seen to encourage or condone the taking of illegal substances as a treatment for CH on our business site: nor are we prepared to risk losing our Charitable status by doing so either.
We do not know (or consider it any of our business to know) how many of our members have used illegal substances to treat their CH.
OUCH UK does not fund any research, either here in the UK or overseas. We work closely with the Institute of Neurology on all the CH trials they carry out, but we do not contribute to the funding of any of it. We will always publish the findings of approved clinical trials on CH if these are made available to us from an official medical source.
So that everyone is quite clear as to what OUCK UK’s posting policy is on the subject of magic mushrooms, we will be publishing the above response as a Statement on our web site. As far as we are concerned, this issue is now closed and the Trustees do not intend to enter into any further discussion/correspondence on the matter.
Christopher Willis
Chairman of the Board of Trustees
OUCH UK
The depths of their ignorance is astonishing and I came to the conclusion that they are quite deliberately with-holding this information because they have some moral objection to the use of shrooms.
People as evil & stupid as this really aren't worth argueing with.
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Filbert
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Re: Source for Fresh Mushrooms in the UK
« Reply #10 on: Jun 21st, 2004, 9:22pm » |
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majic
Thanks for that positive contribution to the furthering of understanding of cluster headaches and thanks for your posts both here and on OUCH uk and all the support you've given. -
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Flash
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Re: Source for Fresh Mushrooms in the UK
« Reply #11 on: Jun 21st, 2004, 9:44pm » |
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OUCH UK has published a clearly stated posting Policy and we continue to reserve the Right to remove mention/discussion of the use of any illegal substances from our web site.
Fine by me, but we aren't proposing discussing any illegal activites.
Specifically in respect of magic mushrooms, the Legal Advice we’ve obtained is that in this country it is perfectly in order for anyone to pick (or grow their own) raw magic mushrooms – you can even buy them from shops.
Thank goodness they finally got that one right. As someone previously pointed out the Home Office has a statement to this effect on their website and they haven't been closed down.
However, it is illegal here in the UK to extract the active component Psilocybin from these mushrooms (by drying them or stewing them for instance). The moment you alter their raw state or prepare them in any way they are deemed to be a Class A drug under the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971. This is heavy duty offending in the eyes of the Law. Possession of a Class A drug carries a custodial sentence of up to seven years: the maximum sentence for supplying a Class A drug to anyone else carries a life sentence.
Isn't the law a funny old thing? It's perfectly legal for me to use a knife to butter my bread, but the instant I take that same knife and plunge it into someone's heart I risk rotting in jail for a VERY long time. Is it OK to use the term 'knife' on the OUCH (UK) forum?
Your question as to what can and cannot be allowed/discussed on a UK web site is irrelevant to us.
The irrelevance of Ch sufferers to OUCH (UK) is duly noted. Thanks for clearing that up 
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Filbert
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Re: Source for Fresh Mushrooms in the UK
« Reply #12 on: Jun 21st, 2004, 9:53pm » |
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Flash you're starting to sound a little bitter- can it be assumed that you'll start the same thread in a couple of months time-if so try and come up with a different title-just to jog peoples' interest.
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Flash
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Re: Source for Fresh Mushrooms in the UK
« Reply #13 on: Jun 21st, 2004, 10:04pm » |
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Our organisation is a Company Limited by Guarantee, properly lodged with Companies House.
What he's trying to say is that they're setup as a limited company. This is the equivalent of an incorporated company in the US. It means that with very few exceptions all liability is limited to the company and not the individual directors. For example creditors may not pursue the individual directors for any debts owed to them by the business. Being a limited company is MUCH less risky than being a regular person that's personally liable for their actions.
Companies House is the entity that polices limited companies. Say for instance a company deliberately takes payment for goods or services that it never intends to deliver then folds with creditors... Companies House may ban those directors from holding directorships for a period of time.
All the Trustees are Directors, albeit they run the organisation on an unpaid basis. After first registering OUCH UK as a Company, we then applied for Charitable status. Because of the way the organisation is set up, it is the Trustees (not the membership) who are held responsible - both jointly and severally under the Director’s Liability Act - for the way we conduct all aspects of OUCH UK.
This is a bit of a misnomer. It's like saying that you may be arrested by the Secret Service whilst ommiting the fact that you are immune from every other law enforcement agency.
FYI The Directors Liability Act was implemented subsequent to the Piper Alpha disaster. I'm a copmpany director, have been for 7 years, and I've never been struck off for mentioning magic mushrooms.
Many of the shops selling magic mushrooms in the UK are trading as limited companys.
None of us are prepared as individuals to be held legally liable by being seen to encourage or condone the taking of illegal substances as a treatment for CH on our business site.
Well nobody is asking them to do this. The subject is magic mushrooms, and as they have acknowledged, those are legal. Get used to it!
nor are we prepared to risk losing our Charitable status by doing so either.
We've demonstrated the invalidity of that statement many, many times.
We do not know (or consider it any of our business to know) how many of our members have used illegal substances to treat their CH.
Good because it isn't their business. Stay on topic FFS!!!
OUCH UK does not fund any research, either here in the UK or overseas. We work closely with the Institute of Neurology on all the CH trials they carry out, but we do not contribute to the funding of any of it.
Well that's err... useful.
We will always publish the findings of approved clinical trials on CH if these are made available to us from an official medical source.
I can tell this is soooo NOT going to happen.
So that everyone is quite clear as to what OUCK UK’s posting policy is on the subject of magic mushrooms, we will be publishing the above response as a Statement on our web site. As far as we are concerned, this issue is now closed and the Trustees do not intend to enter into any further discussion/correspondence on the matter.
Crystal clear. I'm just glad it's ONLY CH we're talking about and not AIDS or cancer.
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Flash
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Re: Source for Fresh Mushrooms in the UK
« Reply #14 on: Jun 21st, 2004, 10:07pm » |
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on Jun 21st, 2004, 9:22pm, Filbert wrote:majic
Thanks for that positive contribution to the furthering of understanding of cluster headaches and thanks for your posts both here and on OUCH uk and all the support you've given. - |
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Perhaps read his last paragraph again. Then edit your post numbnuts.
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Flash
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Re: Source for Fresh Mushrooms in the UK
« Reply #15 on: Jun 21st, 2004, 10:11pm » |
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on Jun 21st, 2004, 9:53pm, Filbert wrote:| Flash you're starting to sound a little bitter- can it be assumed that you'll start the same thread in a couple of months time-if so try and come up with a different title-just to jog peoples' interest. |
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Very perceptive though it is... is this the best insight you can offer?
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Filbert
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Re: Source for Fresh Mushrooms in the UK
« Reply #16 on: Jun 21st, 2004, 10:14pm » |
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So Flash set up your own WEBSITE I know you have been worried about your mum not having access to the shroom information.It worries me!
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Flash
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Re: Source for Fresh Mushrooms in the UK
« Reply #17 on: Jun 21st, 2004, 10:17pm » |
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on Jun 21st, 2004, 5:44pm, Superpain wrote:WTF is "Buggery"?
Is that like taking in the ass? |
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Yes it's the very appropriate technical term for being shafted - like we are being.
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pubgirl
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Re: Source for Fresh Mushrooms in the UK
« Reply #18 on: Jun 21st, 2004, 10:22pm » |
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Thank you for the link Flash
However a message from someone who only wishes to help cluster sufferers legally access shrooms and treatment information rather than run a crusade to discredit people would contain links such as:
www.clusterbusters.com
as well as online purchase sites such as
www.trufflemonster.com www.thepsychedeli.com www.salviaonline.co.uk
Can we focus on that please and stop exchanging insults and arguing semantics?
Wendy
P.S. Good question Filbert. Flash, seriously, if you are so angry with OUCH UK, why don't you set up your own website for Ch sufferers in the UK , we know you have the technical skills.
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| « Last Edit: Jun 21st, 2004, 10:30pm by pubgirl » |
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Filbert
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Re: Source for Fresh Mushrooms in the UK
« Reply #19 on: Jun 21st, 2004, 10:22pm » |
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numbnuts- that's very good -cuts to the soul. 
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Flash
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Re: Source for Fresh Mushrooms in the UK
« Reply #20 on: Jun 21st, 2004, 10:33pm » |
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on Jun 21st, 2004, 10:14pm, Filbert wrote:| So Flash set up your own WEBSITE I know you have been worried about your mum not having access to the shroom information.It worries me! |
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Err we have. Although my contribution was limited to a little text. It's at www.clusterbusters.com. Jeez even Wendy stumbled on us... as she trawled the Internet late at night apparently desperate to satiate her craving for salvia.
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| « Last Edit: Jun 21st, 2004, 10:35pm by Flash » |
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pubgirl
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Re: Source for Fresh Mushrooms in the UK
« Reply #21 on: Jun 21st, 2004, 10:38pm » |
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I don't mean a shroom site. If you are serious about helping CH sufferers, and shrooms is only a part of this and you think OUCH Uk is so bad at doing this, it would solve most of your issues to set up an alternative site. Even here OUCH is restricted about what it can and cannot do, whereas DJ can do mostly what he likes with ch.com and allow people pretty much to say what they like.
If it matters so much to you, create the equivalent in the UK
W
Edited: Sorry, if this isn't clear enough. The main OUCH website linked here doesn't have shroom information either. People come here or go to clusterbusters for it. If you think it so important, then do what DJ has done, but a UK based version.
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| « Last Edit: Jun 21st, 2004, 10:49pm by pubgirl » |
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Pinkfloyd
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Re: Source for Fresh Mushrooms in the UK
« Reply #22 on: Jun 22nd, 2004, 1:53am » |
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on Jun 21st, 2004, 9:53pm, Filbert wrote:| Flash you're starting to sound a little bitter- can it be assumed that you'll start the same thread in a couple of months time-if so try and come up with a different title-just to jog peoples' interest. |
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Flash isn't the one that began the "discussion" on the subject. He just posted a worthwhile link. Especially worthwhile to people living in the UK that might be interested. This being the most public site available for such a post for his kingdom-men (and ladies) it was appropriate IMHO.
I brought it to a discussion point and as it is, it seems some good discussion has followed. For this site, it would be considered tame and well mannered.
We're (Americans) are always being accused of not caring how other countries operate or their customs.
We Americans are a just a bit puzzeled (uneducated?), as we are unfortunately with many foreign laws and customs, in that it seems there are free speech issues that we always take for granted.
We're just trying to learn.
OTOH, we are available for invasion and liberation (at least until November) if anyone is interested. 
I know you have free health care (or almost free?)
Has anyone written your government to ask them if they know how many billions of dollars (euros) could be saved on their medical budget? Maybe they would be interested in donating to the study.
It would actually be easier to run a study such as this through just about anywhere other than the US. No one else will have the pressure of the billions of dollars at stake from opponents...ie, drug manufacturers.
It's problems like these that make us not able to sit back and let (trust) our government to come up with a cure for neuro-vascular headaches.
Countries with national health care systems on the other hand.....have much more to gain politically than they stand to lose financially.
For every person that can replace imitrex with a couple grams of mushrooms, a road could be paved, a new teacher could be hired or a hospital burn unit could add a bed.
PF
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majic
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Re: Source for Fresh Mushrooms in the UK
« Reply #23 on: Jun 22nd, 2004, 5:03am » |
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on Jun 21st, 2004, 9:22pm, Filbert wrote:majic
Thanks for that positive contribution to the furthering of understanding of cluster headaches and thanks for your posts both here and on OUCH uk and all the support you've given. - |
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I this wasn't so pathetic it would almost be amusing.
I am in no position to further the understanding of Cluster Headaches. But having spent 20 years being a chronic sufferer, this treatment is a revalation...in the space of about 18 months I have gone from suffering 6-8 attacks per day to having maybe 1-2 attacks every 6-8 weeks. All the other stuff OUCH(UK) does is almost irrelevant, hand wringing nonsense. A huge amount of pain and suffering could be relieved simply by telling all members of OUCH(UK) how to use this treatment. It may even prevent a few suicides...but obviously the idiots who run OUCH(UK) don't really care about this.
I utterly fail to understand the fear and hostility that OUCH(UK) show towards this treatment. It's almost as if they want CH suffers to become dependant on them as their suffering continues.
It seems to me to be utter nonsense to say that the OUCH(UK) website can make absolutley no mention of this. It only took me a few moments using Google to find a UK Multiple Sclerosis Charity's website that had a page talking about cannabis and even offering to supply me with canna-chocolate. That charity has been in operation for over 10 years. Now, Cannabis is definitely illegal in the UK, and supply of a Class C drug carries a 14 year sentence. If they can do this then I'm damn sure that OUCH(UK) could talk about a LEGAL substance used in a LEGAL manner to treat CH.
majic
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majic
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Re: Source for Fresh Mushrooms in the UK
« Reply #24 on: Jun 22nd, 2004, 5:15am » |
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on Jun 21st, 2004, 10:38pm, pubgirl wrote:I don't mean a shroom site. If you are serious about helping CH sufferers, and shrooms is only a part of this and you think OUCH Uk is so bad at doing this, it would solve most of your issues to set up an alternative site. Even here OUCH is restricted about what it can and cannot do, whereas DJ can do mostly what he likes with ch.com and allow people pretty much to say what they like.
If it matters so much to you, create the equivalent in the UK
W
Edited: Sorry, if this isn't clear enough. The main OUCH website linked here doesn't have shroom information either. People come here or go to clusterbusters for it. If you think it so important, then do what DJ has done, but a UK based version. |
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This is missing the point on so many levels it's difficult to know where to start.
How about the members of OUCH(UK) who don't have internet access? Are they to be left in pain because of their ignorance?
Creating a new website just to talk about this treatment in the UK is a pointless waste of resources. The difficulty is making sure that suffers in the UK know about this treatment. The best way to do this is obviously through the UK's CH charity...who unfortunately have decided that this treatment should be kept away from their members.
The other real difficulty is that the trustees of OUCH(UK) refuse to discuss this openly. There is no forum in the UK where we can question their thoughts or motives on this matter. We have the choice of agreeing with them or withdrawing from OUCH(UK) and that's about it.
Sad, isn't it, that adults are so scared of something like this that they won't even talk about it?
majic
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