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Topic: triptan help please (Read 540 times) |
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chuckg
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triptan help please
« on: Feb 23rd, 2004, 5:27pm » |
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hi
i have been taking relpax .1 pill a day as an abortive and having good results with it ..taken soon enuff after headache shows up,it just fades away...if not soo enuff then an hour or so of level 8 or up then it fades away.
now relpax is eletriptan...one of the group of triptans
i have 2 neg indicators for this med, but am so happy with the results i am very very reluctant to stop using it.
i was a chronic for many years and then pain free for 10 years and now they are back , and before relpax up to 8 kip 8's a day....i foolishly thot i had beaten them on my own 10 years ago .with self hypnosis , relaxation , meditation ,etc...looks like i was fooling myself.....
now to my question..
why is taking triptans bad? does it wear off effectiveness?
or what...\\? i am rteally willing to live or die with 2 neg indicators as long as it works...
tyia
chuck
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thomas
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Rebounds and heart problems are the two most common ill effects of triptan use, however some of us have little choice in the matter.  I personally have had good results with naratriptan - amerge and zolmatriptan - zomig.
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Bob_Johnson
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Re: triptan help please
« Reply #2 on: Feb 23rd, 2004, 8:48pm » |
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I've never seen any medical literature which suggests that the triptans lose effectiveness with time.
The question of negative indicators needs to be settled by your doc--especially since we do not know what they are or how serious.
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Edski_1
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Re: triptan help please
« Reply #3 on: Feb 24th, 2004, 5:15pm » |
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>>Why is taking triptans bad?
Is it? Or do the insurance companies want to perpetuate this myth so they can jerk around people who need these drugs? Seems that there are a lot of misunderstandings and out-and-out lies being told about these drugs, i.e. they're habit forming, they lose they're effectiveness, and it seems that most of this bad pub comes from the insurance companies...
>>Am I willing to live or die with 2 negative indicators if it works?
Well, I suppose that's a question for you and doctor to really press on with, but I suppose statistically if you haven't died yet...Thomas points out that the heart issues are the most common problem...a lot of CH suferers have high bloop pressure, which *supposedly* rules out triptan use, but what else are you going to do for CH? Sure there are other options, but there are not that many...
As for chronic vs episodic...interesting to hear another decade or more remission story. I wonder about my status between the two categories...I'm in my second "cycle", seems I had a 13 or 14 year remission...but my initial cycle (which was misdiagnosed-so I can't really pin it down all that acurately) lasted between a year and two years...
Based on the fact that Zomig provides relief for me, it would seem that I'm episodic rather than chronic, but that's somehat based on anecdotal evidence I'd say...based on a "cycle" that seems to last over a year, that would point towards perhaps classifying me as chronic...
Actually, I rather think of it as another aspect of this disease that is troubling. People want to label things, but something are just difficult to label. Just like it's sometimes difficult to find a combination of meds that is effective a treating this beast...and it sometime takes some touh choices regarding potential side effect risks when formulating that treatment plan.
Currently I'm using topamax to manage my HA's. The med works great for the pain, but it is not wothout it's downside...there's the dopeyness (which fortunately has mostly passed me by now), the potential for kidney stones, and blood acidosis...and when I missed a dose one nght the next day I did NOT feel right mentally...
So even when it's seemingly going well, it's not going becasue it's easy!
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thomas
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Chronic = not having more that 30 days pain free in 365.25 days. If you fall into that category, then you are chronic, as far as zomig is concerned, it seems to me that more chronics have success with it than do episodics. And I've got my own theory as to why that is.
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| « Last Edit: Feb 24th, 2004, 5:31pm by thomas » |
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Edski_1
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Re: triptan help please
« Reply #5 on: Feb 24th, 2004, 7:19pm » |
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I've read that one definition of "chronic" was that your "cycle" went more than a year...anyway just definitions...pain is pain and pain sucks.
Main definition for chronic that makes the most sense to me is that remissions last less than 2 weeks...but then if you do get a remission for years, I guess then you were episodic with very long cycle...ahhhhhhhh!
As for Zomig, also read a few places that Chronics had no luck with it...of course that might be old news by now. I'll trust your reports... 
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chuckg
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Re: triptan help please
« Reply #6 on: Feb 25th, 2004, 5:45am » |
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[quote author=Edski_1
Main definition for chronic that makes the most sense to me is that remissions last less than 2 weeks...but then if you do get a remission for years, I guess then you were episodic with very long cycle...ahhhhhhhh!
As for Zomig, also read a few places that Chronics had no luck with it...of course that might be old news by now. I'll trust your reports... [/quote]
ty all for ur replys...
main reason i was asking is my reading of loooong thread on magic m'rooms..and it's seeming effectiveness for desperate episodics.....and the many many posts on the need to stop taking all meds..including triptans....the impression was that triptans were a bad thing, a very bad thing, with no explanation why this was so.
edski had some very good points to make in general as did the others....i'll be haunting the board,,,smile
sincerly chuck
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JohnM
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Re: triptan help please
« Reply #7 on: Feb 25th, 2004, 7:36am » |
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Chuck
I am no absolutely no expert on the magic mushrooms, but from what I have read here it does seem as if you need to stay off all meds for about 5 days prior to using the shrooms. Triptans in particular.
Seemingly the shrooms, LSD and Triptans have in common the ability to close off some receptors in the brain that will then render the magic mushroom dose totally ineffective. It is apparently the same reason that a second dose of LSD (or shrooms) taken a day or so after tripping will have no effect until the "gateway" re-opens maybe 5 days later.
I suggest you re-phrase your question in a new post to attract some more learned response from the experts.
Something like: Why stop meds for shroom therapy?
Hope this helps.
John
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Edski_1
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Re: triptan help please
« Reply #8 on: Feb 25th, 2004, 1:55pm » |
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In light of THAT....
My pet theory is that there is something, probably having to to with the chemistry of brain receptors, that the hallucinogenic drugs seems to battle severe head pain...
Ergotamine, 'shroom...witches were said to trip on atropine, which suspiciously sounds like "triptan"...so the contention that there is some geometry that messes with the brain receptors sounds very plausible.
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chuckg
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Re: triptan help please
« Reply #9 on: Feb 25th, 2004, 7:25pm » |
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on Feb 25th, 2004, 1:55pm, Edski_1 wrote:In light of THAT....
My pet theory is that there is something, probably having to to with the chemistry of brain receptors, that the hallucinogenic drugs seems to battle severe head pain...
Ergotamine, 'shroom...witches were said to trip on atropine, which suspiciously sounds like "triptan"...so the contention that there is some geometry that messes with the brain receptors sounds very plausible. |
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smile ty
i have no plan to do this ...i was just referring to thread wgere it was referenced
sincerely chuck
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thomas
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Triptans are not necessarily "good" for you, not your ideal after dinner mint. But they are effective against ch, and relatively safe, if used properly. If you are going to go the clusterbuster route, then you CANNOT use them. If you are not going to use the alternative treatment, then by all means use triptans, under your doctors supervision, of course.
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Edski_1
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Re: triptan help please
« Reply #11 on: Feb 26th, 2004, 10:26am » |
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Thomas: let's wax philosophically...
First...any idea if chemically, the triptans as a group of chemicals have anything in common with the "potions" that the old-time "witches" were said to be tripping on "atropine". My contrntion is I see some sort of word root similarity in there, so I see some sort of soggestive, or "circumstantial" evidence...
Furthermore, and more scientific, I KNOW, that LSD is derived from Ergot, as is ergotamine. I also know that ergotamine is used to treat CH...as are mushrooms, another hallucinogenic drug.
I'm wondering if the reasons why the mushrooms and triptans counteract each other might be related to the reasons that these treatments work?
Certainly none of these chemicals are "good"... but if used correctly can have beneficial uses!
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thomas
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Re: triptan help please
« Reply #12 on: Feb 26th, 2004, 10:43am » |
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let's not forget sansert (mythesergide maleate) serg? as in lysergic acid?
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Pinkfloyd
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Re: triptan help please
« Reply #13 on: Feb 26th, 2004, 1:09pm » |
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on Feb 26th, 2004, 10:26am, Edski_1 wrote:
I'm wondering if the reasons why the mushrooms and triptans counteract each other might be related to the reasons that these treatments work?
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Actually, they don't both counteract each other. I believe that counteraction would indicate that one would stop the other from acting. There is ample evidence that triptans will block the beneficial actions of psilocybin but little if any, that the reverse is true.
They compete for some of the same receptor sites.
People using Imitrex following the use of psilocybin, do not report that the effects of the imitrex are lessened in any way.
There are numerous reports, on the other hand, that injestion of psilocybin following the use of Imitrex (<5 days) is no where near as effective and many of the noticeable actions are blocked, including the elimination of the cycle itself.
Imitrex used after psilocybin appears to not only block any continuation of improved cluster symptoms, but may very well reset the neurological system back to where it was, before the introduction of psilocybin.
Recent reports that Imitrex may not only prolong a cluster cycle, but add to the number and intensity of attacks, is not necessarily surprising. Reading report upon report of imitrex locking and/or resetting the cluster "mode," although not clear and certainly not yet proven, is becoming a definate possibility.
So, the fact that they do or do not counteract each other is not the reason they work, but is related, at least due in part, to the fact that they have an affinity for many of the same receptor sites.(imho)
More information and explanations can be found at: www.clusterbusters.com
Click on the FAQ (frequently asked questions) link to find more answers.
PF
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t_h_b
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Re: triptan help please
« Reply #14 on: Feb 26th, 2004, 7:24pm » |
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on Feb 24th, 2004, 5:31pm, thomas wrote:| it seems to me that more chronics have success with it than do episodics. And I've got my own theory as to why that is. |
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Thomas, are you not going to give your theory unless someone specifically asks?
Okay, what IS your theory? 
Thomas
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thomas
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Ok, Thomas, I'll fill you in, just let me get my shields up first. I expect to take a lot of arrows and stones for this one. First of all chronics get hit all the damn time, they are as used to ch pain as you can humanly get. Episodics don't get hit as often, so they are not as "used" to it (this isn't the right term - but the best that my limited intelligence can come up with at the moment). So you take someone who has become accostomed to having this pain, I think they can take the pain for a little while longer than an episodic, so they have better luck with the triptans that take longer to work, ie 30-45 min. Whereas an episodic is literally destroyed when they get hit (it's not something that they are really used to dealing with), so they need relief fast, like right now, they may not have the patience to wait that 30-45 min. for relief, whereas a chronic, can wait that time, because they know that if they take a zomig or amerge, their lapse time before the next hit will be longer, and if a chronic can make it through the day with less hits, that can make all the difference. Now I'm not in anyway trying to say the chronics are tougher than episodics, or all episodics are a bunch of whimps, this is not a whose pain is worse thread, so before you people start flaming me, just relax, this is my own personal opinion, based on my own observations. If you don't agree, that's fine. If you think I'm a dick, well that's ok too. PFNAD to all.
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UN_SOLVED
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Re: triptan help please
« Reply #17 on: Feb 28th, 2004, 7:05pm » |
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The more Imitrex I use, the more I have to use. But it's still the only sure thing I have.
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chuckg
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Re: triptan help please
« Reply #18 on: Feb 28th, 2004, 10:35pm » |
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on Feb 27th, 2004, 10:08am, Bob P wrote:
ty bob
now i know what a rebound HA is and i'm sorta sorry i do. i guess triptans can be abused....but what are you gonna do? painfree is good
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