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Topic: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? (Read 11038 times) |
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fjleonard
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Updates on Psilocybin Research???
« on: Nov 16th, 2003, 10:04pm » |
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CH x 22 years....(was chronic for 3)....still refuse to accept I have to suffer these monsters for the rest of my life!! (as several doctors have tried to insist)
I have researched this site (and Erowid) and found quite a bit of info on success of Psilocybin. Also saw where there was "some" info on the potential of actual research, back in 2000. I am curious if anything more has been done to persue the possible promise that some have apparently experienced with Psilocybin, and if so, can anyone point me to it??
I'd also like to hear about any "negative" experiences related to trying to use it with CH....whether it simply did not work, or worse???
Thanks in advance!!
Joe 
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Prense
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Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research???
« Reply #1 on: Nov 16th, 2003, 10:06pm » |
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Your answers will come...but if you wanna read for yourself, check out www.clusterbusters.com. I personally have not gone this route.
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Pinkfloyd
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Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research???
« Reply #2 on: Nov 17th, 2003, 2:04am » |
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on Nov 16th, 2003, 10:04pm, fjleonard wrote:
I am curious if anything more has been done to persue the possible promise that some have apparently experienced with Psilocybin, and if so, can anyone point me to it??
Joe
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Can't point you to the official research...yet.
Are you willing to travel to become part of the first clinical trial?
PF www.clusterbusters.com
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tommyD
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Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research???
« Reply #3 on: Nov 17th, 2003, 7:56am » |
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Joe -
For personal accounts of the psilocybin treatment, go to clusterbusters.com and check out the Message Board Archives:
http://www.clusterbusters.com/2000.html
http://www.clusterbusters.com/2001.html
http://www.clusterbusters.com/2002.html
Negative experiences? For a few folks it didn't seem to work. Worst part - they continued having cluster attacks.
An "overdose," taking more than needed medicinally, can result in a psychedelic trip. This can be extremely pleasent or extremely unpleasent, or most likely, somewhere in between. It may be uncomfortable, but it won't hurt you and it's over in a few hours.
Some folks will get a heavy CH attack or two in the first few days after trying the treatment. Usually, this is the Beasts' last gasp, and the attacks fade away before the end of the first week.
All research so far has been unofficial and anecdotal, but as Pinkfoyd hints, there may be good news on the horizon. (Way to go Pink!)
-tommyD
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fjleonard
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Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research???
« Reply #4 on: Nov 17th, 2003, 8:58am » |
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Thanks all for the quick comments back. I have checked out CB.com and yes it does seem helpful, especially if I decide to go that route on my own. I was seeing a specialist about 14 yrs ago and we wrecked my immune system and my joints with Prednisone, and turned me into a wreck with Lithium. Changed my lifestyle, quit drinking / partying alltogether and went back to episodic. Since then I have just "toughed it out" on my own...6 to 12 week cycles once or twice a year, but am throwing in the towel waiting for them to "just go away". Just started seeing another specialist....refused both Lithium & Predn., but am now on Verapamil (don't know if it is doing anything) and Imitrex...(amazing but very expensive  , and can't take enough for all CH even though I am using the tip I found on this site.)
I guess since the indications of a potential "trial" or research were from old notes a few years back, I hoped that more progress had been made, but it does not appear to be the case. 
In reference to being able to travel for a trial....that would depend on a lot, but I would certainly be willing to consider (who wouldn't!!).
Anyhow....thanks again for all the quick responses!
Joe
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_Binger
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Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research???
« Reply #5 on: Nov 18th, 2003, 4:33pm » |
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I have to say, I have talked to at least 3 people personally that swear the psilocybin is doing what no other medication could----stoping the pain for months at a time. (Not to mention all the people on this sight.) As far as myself, I have never been able to stop the beast for that long. What I have been able to do is bring the intensity down to the point where if I'm having one, most of the time I'm not too distressed and half the time I don't even take anything more often then some mushrooms every 4-5 months. Now as far as hard evidence, it is out there, and I have researched it--- but at this point, I remember the info, but not where I got it. (truthfully, after years of intense pain, I started the mushroom therapy, and haven't really worried too much about it since then) I will tell you what I know------ Cluster Headaches have been associated with Serotonin imbalances, although Imitrex has been touted as a strong vascoconstricter and this must help, I have read compelling evidence showing it convinces your body to produce serotonin, and this is why it helps. I have read research showing that once psilocybin is injected into the bloodstream (I will try to find this info) that the difference can not be told between psilocybin and serotonin. Weird huh? All this would point to though, is that it would stop the pain, like Imitrex. It seems like what is happening though, is that the psilocybin (or psilocyn, the substance that psilocybin is turned into in the body) is convincing the body to produce more serotonin then it was before---but for months at a time. Like I said, many people don't feel any pain for 6 months at a time. I myself still feel shadows that occasionaly flair into something a little more, but I could care less, I always have gotten rid of it within a couple hours. The really bright part---I'm not eating Imitrex---which has side effects including heart attack, stroke, seizures, hell, they found Imitrex metabolites bind to the melanin in the eye and stays there for 15-23 days. That means if your taking it more often then that it's probably building up in your eye. I could go on for hours...(you've probably noticed) Psilocybin however, is not toxic until very large doses that realisticaly will never be part of a healthy C.H. regimen. There are things to watch out for, however, I would not recomend this for people not so sure of there mental stability, no real evidence, but I'm pretty sure psychadelics are not the best thing to through in there. Something to keep in mind, though is that a typical recreational dose would be around 3.5 grams of dried mushroom, where as I have found 2 grams to be the most I've ever needed. I highly recomend the herb skullcap as a tea if you are going to try this, it is a wonderful anti-anxiety herb I had heard as a good complement to the mushy's even if you're just eating em for the hell of it. (the tea even helps the C.H. sometimes) Remember---there are many people who really enjoy this, and most people who are into hallucinogens that I have talked to regard these mushy's and the amount taken to be not overlly strong and generally a positive experience. Remember, If your'e sure you have C.H. it's probably going to help, and going from that much pain to pain free is probably going to put you in a very good mood, no matter what your on. The mushy's last just about 6 hours. You wanted info, here's what I got---I hope it helps, but I can't promise anything------ Binger
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BUBBADOG
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Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research???
« Reply #6 on: Nov 18th, 2003, 4:56pm » |
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WHAT IS A HERB SKULLCAP? I AM NEW TO HALLUCINOGENS NEVER HAVE TRIED THESE, KIND OF SCARED TO BUT EVERYDAY WHEN I HAVE MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF PAIN I THINK WHAT THE HECK DO I HAVE TO LOOSE BUT PAIN. HOW DO I KNOW WHAT I AM GETTING IS NOT MIXED WITH OTHER STUFF?
THANKS
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_Binger
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Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research???
« Reply #7 on: Nov 18th, 2003, 6:06pm » |
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Skullcap is a North American perenial plant that grows in Canada and northern and eastern America. It is perfectly legal and can be found in herbal stores. I know that there are a couple of health food stores in my area that carry it, I don't know about Penn. though. If you can't find it, try the internet, I know it is available, though I'm not sure where off hand It is known to be an antispasmodic, diuretic, and sedative. The dosage I have read was to pour 1 cup boiling water over 1 tsp dried skullcap (try a coffee filter if your'e having trouble getting the herb out) If you feel you need more I wouldn't worry about taking 4-5 cups, just make sure you drink a lot of water too and try to spread it out over time. Hey , the plants supposed to be good against rabies too!
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floridian
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Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research???
« Reply #8 on: Nov 19th, 2003, 11:28am » |
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Skullcap has compounds that affect both the serotonin receptors, and the GABA receptors. It is traditionally used mostly used for "headaches" (not specific on type) and as a sedative because the GABA effects are pronounced - don't mix it with any of the benzodiazepine drugs (valium, xanax, etc). Skullcap also reduces some of the inflammitory interleukins - this may be beneficial, although the specific interleukins that it supresses don't seem to closely match up the interleukins that are elevated in CH.
Hasn't been used for rabies in quite a while, but still has the nick-name "mad-dog skullcap" in some places.
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tommyD
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Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research???
« Reply #9 on: Nov 19th, 2003, 3:49pm » |
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Quote:| I guess since the indications of a potential "trial" or research were from old notes a few years back, I hoped that more progress had been made, but it does not appear to be the case. |
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While formal research is still in the future, the informal research goes on.
There is some indication that mushrooms can be used as an abortive by placing a small piece of 'shroom under the tongue and sucking on it like mad at the first sign of an attack. The ClusterBusters call it the SPUT (small piece under tongue) technique. The psychoactive effects are minimal. There are also signs that repeated use this way can build to a preventative effect. But the jury's still out on this until we hear from more SPUTniks.
There are more reports of success among chronics using shrooms, and finding ways to make it work for them. Some find they need to dose every week or two for months, but can gradually space the doses farther and farther apart. But we've also had reports of chronics finding extended relief after the long treatment...one ex-chronic recently passed the two-year mark, if I recall, pain free and med free.
And it is becoming clearer that larger doses of psilocybin, beyond a mild recreational dose, do not improve efficacy for CH, and may even be counter-productive.
Progress on identifying medications that interfere with hallucinogen treatment is slow, but it does seem sumatriptan does interfere for many...the question now is how much time one should wait between Imitrex and psilocybin, and whether Imitrex taken after shrooms can interfere with the treatment (it seems like it might).
The more reports we hear from people who try psilocybin, the more we learn...so please, anyone who tries it, please let us know how it goes, however it goes - reports of failures or problems are more important and valuable than reports of success.
While formal research is needed to prove this works, informal research will help researchers set protocols for formal trials. And of course, the info is invaluable for clusterheads who want relief without waiting for approval by the authorities.
-tommyD
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Cluster_head
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Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research???
« Reply #10 on: Nov 19th, 2003, 5:21pm » |
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on Nov 19th, 2003, 3:49pm, tommyD wrote:
While formal research is needed to prove this works, informal research will help researchers set protocols for formal trials. And of course, the info is invaluable for clusterheads who want relief without waiting for approval by the authorities.
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Tim
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BT
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Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research???
« Reply #11 on: Nov 21st, 2003, 1:43pm » |
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I am new to the forum.I am having 4to5 clusters a day.I am going to give Psilocybin a try.All other meds are making me very sick and I can't take much more pain.Wish me luck I will post back!
Peace BT
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Cluster_head
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Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research???
« Reply #12 on: Nov 21st, 2003, 3:14pm » |
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on Nov 21st, 2003, 1:43pm, BT wrote:| I am going to give Psilocybin a try |
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I'm envious!
Good luck
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Tim
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BT
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Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research???
« Reply #13 on: Nov 21st, 2003, 5:17pm » |
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Took a dose at 3:45pm to try and avoid my 5:00pm beast, we will see.This is a first!
Keeping fingers crossed.
BT 
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BT
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Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research???
« Reply #14 on: Nov 21st, 2003, 9:38pm » |
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It has beaten the beast.I am amazed it is 8:30pm and no meds but Psilocybin.I can feel the beast trying to come through,but it fades to nothing in seconds.
I am worried about my 11:00pm beast this has been the worst,and I can feel the effects of the Psilocybin getting less intense.
From back in the day I know the theory the door is closed and there is no sense in more, but I am going to waste some then,in fear.
Peace Chuck Brown 
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Flounder
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Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research???
« Reply #15 on: Nov 21st, 2003, 10:45pm » |
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BT,
I think you should wait and see what happens. You don't want to overdo it. We think this can possibly be counter productive. They are working and you will be amazed that they continue to work long after the effects have worn off. You may have some shadows and even some hits but most likely not very intense.
What you described is pretty typical and is a very good sign you will have continued success. Wait and dose again in 4-5 days. And continue until you don't need to anymore.
Great news and I wish you continued success.
Flounder
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BT
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Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research???
« Reply #16 on: Nov 22nd, 2003, 10:20am » |
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Flounder you are correct.After the effects of the Psilocybin wore off there was no gain in more shrooms,the door was closed.
At 1:15am the beast returned full scale.This morning same thing the 8:30 am beast hit.Back on Imitrex what a drag.
Now I did have 12+hours with no meds so Psilocybin and the beast do not get along,which is what I am going to hope for.
You think I have to wait 4 days to redose?I hope not.
Peace BT
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Cluster_head
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Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research???
« Reply #17 on: Nov 22nd, 2003, 10:59am » |
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That sucks BT 
I was thinking about you last night when I got hit. I was hoping it had worked for you. Maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree too  Still looking for "the product" though.
Hang in there!
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| « Last Edit: Nov 22nd, 2003, 10:59am by Cluster_head » |
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Tim
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JDH
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Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research???
« Reply #18 on: Nov 22nd, 2003, 12:28pm » |
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BT,
Don't give up yet! From what I've read you really should wait at least 5 days between dosing. The more time to detox you've had the better the results s/b.
My cycles always start in the fall and this year I dosed for the first time in early Oct before it started and again about 5 weeks later and guess who hasn't shown up yet!
I've had to use the o2 a few times for shadows and even had a couple of wakeup calls but it hasn't broken through with anything more than about a k3 and that's been a good thing to say the least. 
This is from www.clusterbusters.com pertaining to time between dosing:
One of the first things that a molecule of psilocin (psilocybin is converted into psilocin as soon as it enters the bloodstream. It is actually psilocin that produces the effect, not psilocybin) will do when it nestles snuggly into its chosen synaptic cleft is to trigger a reaction in the receptor site that "shuts the door" behind it. Not only does the door shut on the sites that contain psilocin molecules already, but on all other sites anywhere in the brain that are capable of accepting similar molecules. This process is not instantaneous, but it does take place fairly rapidly... maybe over twenty minutes or half an hour or so.
This is why dosing with mushrooms or LSD is an "all or nothing" thing. With alcohol or marijuana, if you think you are not yet where you want to be, you can have another beer or another joint, and another and another. But psilocybin and LSD take time to produce their full effect... sometimes as much as an hour or even longer from the time you take them till the time they start to work. By the time you discover that you have underdosed, it is too late to do anything about it. You will have to wait until next time around to adjust the dose. If you take some more immediately, it is a complete waste of medicine, since by the time the new batch of molecules make it to your brain, all the doors are firmly shut.
These doors remain shut until all the molecules of psilocin or LSD have broken down (around 12 to 20 hours) and then the doors gradually start to re-open. This is why veteran "acidheads" back in the 1960s would only dose once a week or so. Some individuals can dose with only a three day break, others need as much as week. A good compromise for clusterheads is about five days.
This door-shutting mechanism precludes the use of any other hallucinogen for that given period of time. That is to say, if you take some mushrooms Friday night, then take some LSD on Saturday night, the LSD will have no effect at all. Methysergide (Sansert) and other ergot compounds such as ergotamine and di-hydro ergotamine (DHE) will also shut the door. Due to the marked similarity between the various triptans (Imitrex, Amerge, etc.) and psilocybin, it is likely that they will also shut the door for at least as long as they remain in the body, and probably for some period of time after that.
Bottom line... it is essential to wait 4 or 5 days between mushroom doses, and to avoid all other known "blocking" medications during that time as well.
good luck,
Jim
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BT
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Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research???
« Reply #19 on: Nov 22nd, 2003, 2:31pm » |
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My 12:00 noon beast was a no show .So far only one hit this morning.
My scalp has this tight feeling,maybe something is still at work.
Peace BT
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Flounder
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Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research???
« Reply #20 on: Nov 22nd, 2003, 3:27pm » |
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Good to hear. You have to give it a chance. It’s shaken up your cycle.
I usually get some strange feeling shadows and some small hits but they are bearable. It’s different each time. Then I get several pf days. I dose again after the waiting period. It usually takes three or four doses to break my cycle completely, however everyone is different.
What size dose did you take?
Try not to take any meds. Trex interferes with the effectiveness of this treatment. Do you use O2? Some have reported that the shrooms seem to make the O2 work even better.
Good luck and (((((((((Good Vibes))))))))) to you
Flounder
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| « Last Edit: Nov 22nd, 2003, 3:39pm by Flounder » |
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BT
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Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research???
« Reply #21 on: Nov 22nd, 2003, 5:35pm » |
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Flounder you are giving me hope.Everything you have discribed is very close to what is happening to me.
I don't have 02.I am going to bail on all meds except a little Advil.
I don't drink at all,I haven't for years.I was a recreational drug user for many years,but with responsibilty and growing older it had to end.That was also many years ago.
My wife who found this forum said, hey check this out Psilocybin can get rid of cluster headaches.My mother in law was an avid shroom farmer for many years so the wife was hip.
Anyway the dose I took was between 4 & 5 grams of dried standard cubes.That put me to a level 2 at best.I may up the dose of these Tuesday or might try 3.5, I don't know yet.
The way this looks I will be calling in the Mother in law to get a farm of my own going,so I can get more accurate with the dose.
I will keep this updated for the other people suffering.
Peace BT
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| « Last Edit: Nov 22nd, 2003, 8:40pm by BT » |
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Cluster_head
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Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research???
« Reply #22 on: Nov 22nd, 2003, 9:09pm » |
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Okay, I guess its my turn. A buddy of mine was able to find the goodies for me and I'll be taking them in a few minutes.
I've been shadowing all day and would normally expect a rough night when that happens. I've had no meds for several days, so there shouldn't be anything in my system to interfere.
Well, down the hatch! Wish me luck. I'll post my results in the morning.
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Tim
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Flounder
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Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research???
« Reply #23 on: Nov 22nd, 2003, 9:37pm » |
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Glad to hear you found what you needed Cluster-Head.
Have a good night.!!!
Flounder
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Mastifflvr28
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Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research???
« Reply #24 on: Nov 23rd, 2003, 3:21pm » |
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Please BT and Cluster_Head keep us updating on how it is going. I congratulate both of you.
BT, the rule of thumb is that you will actually get HARDER from 24 to 48 hours after dosing, THEN the shrooms will actually tweak your cycle for a long period of time after that. Think of them more of a preventative then an actual abortive med.
Take care and I wish you guys the BEST of luck!!!!!!
Mast
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