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Topic: Some interesting info about shrooms (Read 1911 times) |
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ave
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Some interesting info about shrooms
« on: Sep 24th, 2003, 2:05pm » |
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I have just visited the website of the Jellinek organisation, that combats addiction to alcohol and drugs in my country. They had a very informative checklist on shrooms and pregnancy.
"Shrooms may influence your sex life - if you have sex under the influence. Fantasies/needs may surface you did no know you had.
Shrooms do not, as far as is known, influence conception either way.
Shrooms do not influence or counteract the birth control pill, as far as is known.
Shrooms do not, as far as is known, have any influence on the genes.
Shrooms have no influence on mother or baby during pregnancy, as far as is known. Yet common sense prudence is councelled.
It may not be wise to try and give birth under the influence of shrooms. Mom had better be "all there".
There is no known reason for not taking shrooms while still breast feeding."
Now you may not want to do any of these things; also you may prefer to be prudent if you are trying to get pregnant.
But is is of some importance when a highly regarded anti-addiction organisation states there is no reason to
stop people from using shrooms, even when engaged in the very sensitive field of procreation.
Oh, and I still don't like taking them and I dislike the effects, but ONE: it gets rid of my painful attacks.
Just thought I'd tell you.
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tommyD
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Re: Some interesting info about shrooms
« Reply #1 on: Sep 25th, 2003, 4:42pm » |
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Interesting info, Ave. Make no mistake, psilocybin/psilocin is powerful and not to be trifled with. But toxic, it isn't. Based on the ratio of effective dose to lethal dose, psilocybin is MUCH less toxic than many over-the-counter drugs. Compared to nicotine, for example, it's "safe as milk."
And it is interesting you found this info from a addiction treatment web site. Psilocybin, and LSD as well, have both been proposed and studied as addiction treatments, with some success. From what I gather, though, addiction treatment involve big doses and some heavy tripping. The idea is to shock the ego, and get addicts past their rationalizations so they see the lies they tell themselves.
This isn't all that different from the way some cultures and religions have used hallucinogens - as a rite of passage, a search for spirituality or a way of "cleansing" the mind and soul. In other words, to clear out the bullshit we fill ourselves with.
Cluster treatment, of course, calls for much smaller doses, no heavy tripping required. Shocks to the ego we don't need. We get enough shocks in the head. In fact, large doses of hallucinogens may be (Flash thinks so) counterproductive in treating clusters.
Wonderful world, eh?
-tommyD
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floridian
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Re: Some interesting info about shrooms
« Reply #2 on: Sep 25th, 2003, 7:34pm » |
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"Toxicity" is usually reduced to the LD50, or median lethal dose, which is how much is needed to kill half a test population. By this measure, psilocybin is not very toxic. Neither is thalidomide.
In addition to acute toxicity, a chemical can be carcinogenic, mutagenic, teratogenic (affecting development of fetus), neurotoxic, hepatotoxic, etc etc. These chronic toxicities may not become apparent for many years. These toxicities don't show up in the equation Toxicity = (effective dose)/(lethal dose). Using this formula, most fungicides and herbicides are also "safe as milk." But I would drink them, because they can cause cancer ten years down the road, or who knows what other effect. The pesticide rotenone was thought to be non-toxic to humans, but now is suspected of causing nerve damage similar to parkinsons disease.
My biggest concern with psilocybin is related to developmental effects on a fetus. Other serotonin agonists are suspected teratogens (including ergotamine, LSD, prozac, etc) and the real risk is not understood.
Quote:| Shrooms have no influence on mother or baby during pregnancy, as far as is known. Yet common sense prudence is councelled. |
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I would be much more concerned than this. Psilocybin has powerful effects on the serotonin systems, and could exert very damaging effects on a developing fetus.
I am not trying to slam this treatment - if a cluster head tries it, that is their decision. Many people have reported very good results from the mushrooms. But to say that they have no effect on mother or baby during pregnancy is a stretch - even if qualified by the phrase "as far as is known," Maybe the "common sense" sentence was supposed to be a real warning, but something got lost?
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Pinkfloyd
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Re: Some interesting info about shrooms
« Reply #3 on: Sep 25th, 2003, 11:38pm » |
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on Sep 25th, 2003, 7:34pm, floridian wrote:" My biggest concern with psilocybin is related to developmental effects on a fetus. Other serotonin agonists are suspected teratogens (including ergotamine, LSD, prozac, etc) and the real risk is not understood.
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I agree. I imagine, but am only imagining, that the author of this is at least partially basing his thoughts on the fact that psilocybin/psilocin is much more selective in the areas of the receptors to which they attach themselves.
Although it appears to be even safer in many ways than even Imitrex or Sansert, or related drugs of choice, in that the vascular system/smooth muscles etc, take much less of a beating, there must be MUCH more research done. Official research with controlled clinical trials. Until then, this unofficial "shroom RAT" will move forward. If I ever get pregnant, I'll consider holding off for 9 months.
Just imagine where we could be right now without the 40 year hiatus on official research. Mick Jagger, Aerosmith and Stevie Nicks do not a clinical trial make. 
BobW (PF)
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ave
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Re: Some interesting info about shrooms
« Reply #4 on: Sep 26th, 2003, 2:30am » |
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I am NOT advocating shrooms during preganancy, be that understood!
But I am thinking, if only ONE "bad birth" had resulted from shroom-taking, even the very reasonable people at the Jellinek clinic would have plastered this all over the place.
The "use common sense" bit was MY contribution to translating an involved sentence. Don't blame the Jellinek.
There have been, as far as I personally know, no recent clinical trials. But addiction clinics have a lot of anecdotal material gathered from their clients.
Babies are born with Aids or with heroin addiction or catch herpes during actual birth. Obviously one cannot "test this clinically". It would be monstrously inhuman - and I am not even speakingf of double blind research.
The largely incorrect horror stories about LSD still abound. One shroom baby with a "birth defect" and that stpry too would multiply and be mentioned ever and again.
NOT saying shrooms is safe as anything and go ahead and have them when you are trying to get pregnant.
But if I were of a fertile age, and had taken shrooms for my clusters and then found I had gotten pregnant just after, the info from the Jellinek would bring some relief.
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jminmilwaukee
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Re: Some interesting info about shrooms
« Reply #5 on: Sep 26th, 2003, 8:22am » |
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I experimented in my youth with certain substances that we were all told would "screw with your genes" and give you terrible side affects including flashbacks, etc.
I have a healthy, extreemly intelligent and copletly normal son. Go figure.
Yes we need research, no you probably should not ingest them while preggos. Yes they are safe and effective.
I actually gave up on over the prescription meds for two reason.
1. They did nothing for me, actually caused the CH to worsen in frequency.
2. The side affects either made me a walking zombie, made me feel as if I was having a cardiac arrest, or in several instances mad me so damn dizzy that I had to pull into the ditch and sit for a while.
Shooms do work and have no lasting side affects. Plus, my liver is a much happier place now days also.
Viva la shrooms!
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