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dellp
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Tryptophan
« on: May 27th, 2003, 10:34am » |
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And the Saga continues:
There was a headache specialist at one of the conventions I attended as a chiropractor. When I asked about clusters, he recommended oxygen and tryptophan. The oxygen was a big help at first but then I seemed to adapt and it soon had no effect.
Tryptophan is an ammino acid and used to be widely available as a nutritional supplement. The body takes tryptophan and turns it into seratonin, a central nervous system relaxant. When a cluster began I would take 500 mg twice a day while beginning acupuncture and for the next 4-6 weeks. The effects were almost immediate (24-48 hours.) I had a pretty large bottle that lasted quite a while but ran out before moving to Arizona. When a series hit in Arizona, while searching for the right acupuncturist, I discovered the USDA had banned the import of tryptophan for human use because in the 1980’s there was a tainted batch in Asia and 4 people died (that’s 4 people worldwide.) It turns out that it was still available for use by veterinarians and found one in Tuscon willing to sell me a bottle. I don’t know why, but this brand had no effect at all. Natural sources high in tryptophan are milk and turkey and tuna is another source, though not as good as the others.
There is another product available to chiropractors only that has a unique combination of Valarian root, Passiflora and magnesium (just saw the other posts on magnesium - very interesting); it is called Formula 303 and is made by Dee Cee Laboratories. Another central nervous system relaxant, it seems next to useless by itself but is extremely potent when used in combination with tryptophan. (There is a story that goes with this, but maybe later.)
My latest series of headaches started about a month ago. It started relatively mild and has been escalating. After an unsuccessful search for and acupuncturist, I finally remembered the tryptophan (and now that I am on the web I will have to check out out of country sources, too.) Friday after work I went shopping and got some ground turkey and made turkey burgers for dinner - took some 303 before bed and had a mild night of pain. Not giving it any thought, I skipped the turkey Saturday and had a particularly horrific night. Sunday I had turkey sausage and eggs for breakfast, turkey sandwich for lunch and a large baked turkey thigh for dinner; a couple 303 before bed and I had my first pain free night in over a month. I think I am about to become a turkey addict!
So that’s my story. Hope there is some useful stuff here. Let me know what you think and if you try any of this, let me know how it works for you.
Wishing you well with pain free nights and days.
Dell
P.S. Had trouble logging on yesterday so here’s an update on the ‘turkey trial’: there was a company cookout for the holiday and there was no turkey for dinner. Headache returned with about two minutes of force 10, otherwise around a 6 or 7. Could the turkey and 303 actually work?!? I’ll let you know how the experiment continues.
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floridian
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I just posted something about 5-hydroxy-tryptophan under the melatonin/cayenne thread. 5htp is a form of tryptophan that is very bio-available; it is well absorbed, and crosses the blood-brain barrier, where it is converted to serotonin and melatonin.
The current US ban on tryptophan is an example of government running amok - yes, there was a problem once with a batch of tryptophan. The company that produced the tryptophan was incredibly negligent and allowed it to become contaminated - first, they developed a new production procedure using a GMO strain of bacteria, and they decided not to bother to filter the material using activated carbon. Some people died, others were injured.
If the product had been cheese or ground beef, the government would have slapped the guilty parties and maybe increased inspections. But for some reason, the wise men at the FDA instituted a total ban on tryptophan. Stupid @#$@$2!! Properly produced tryptophan is a natural amino acid, and very useful for treating insomnia, migraine, cluster, depression, fibromyalgia, and other serotonin imbalances.
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dellp
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Re: Tryptophan
« Reply #2 on: May 27th, 2003, 10:05pm » |
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I tried melatonin a number of years back but never had any success - of course I probably had the dosage all screwed-up.
I haven't heard of 5htp. Is it readily available at health food stores or is a prescription needed? Sounds intrigueing.
In the Formula 303 I mentioned, the valarian root and passaflora potentiate serotonin by making nerve endings more permeable to it and then by slowing the breakdown of it.
The real kicker is my turkey trial; after (a turkey) dinner, a shadow showed up around 6 this evening and I took the 303. Here it is almost 10:30 and I have been at the computer almost 3 hours and not a peep from the beast. I'm pressing my luck so I'd better go.
Look forward to your info on 5htp
dell
P.S. you sound like a biochemist, am I close?
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dellp
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Re: Tryptophan
« Reply #3 on: May 28th, 2003, 9:29am » |
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Dear floridian,
Got up this morning after a full night's sleep -
say HALALUYA ! -
and checked out 5htp online. I'm out to the store, like NOW.
Thanks for the tip.
Dell
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dellp
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Re: Tryptophan
« Reply #4 on: Jun 8th, 2003, 3:12pm » |
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Just wanted to give an update, as if anyone is really interested.
Had several more nights PF before running out of 303, then started waking around 1AM to deal with a kip 5 or 6 for 2 or 3 hours. Time for that O2 script.
Tried 5htp and by the second night (no turkey) screamin' and clawin' with 5 hours of kip 6 & 7 with a couple 10's thrown in for good measure. Back to the turkey.
Now I wake with a 3 or 4, suck on the O2 for five minutes and go back to bed. Has been 3 and 4 times a night but still wake up feeling 'normal' and happy about the relief.
Wishing you all PFDAN,
Dell
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kimmyv1966
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Re: Tryptophan
« Reply #5 on: Jun 8th, 2003, 6:36pm » |
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u guys,
hell, i am goin out tomorrow to try the 5-ht suppliment.
i wish someone could explain in laymen's terms how zomig works...because it works great for my individual attacks. I am trying to figure out the connection and why my brain in disfunctioning.
"Zolmatriptan binds with high affinity to human recumbinant 5ht1d and 5ht1b receptors..."
So question...Do I 5ht suppliment? and it does seem a possibility, dosent it?
but then i read..."The theraputic activity of zolmitriptan for the treatment of migraine headache can most likely be attributed to the agonist effects at the 5ht 1b/1d receptors on intracranial blood vessels and sensory nerves of the trigeminal system which result in cranial vessel constriction and inhibition of pro-inflammatory neuropeptide release."
ok....what the hell does this mean? i think i am retarded...cuz i don't get it. More 5-ht's or more neuropeptide release of some sort. ????
Still searching for my cure,
Kim
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dellp
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Re: Tryptophan
« Reply #6 on: Jun 8th, 2003, 8:25pm » |
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Kimmy, I'm afraid you might have to post elsewhere to get your answer to that one. The tryptans and 5ht1b has me ALL confused.
Tryptophan is a naturally occuring amino acid that the body changes into serotonin - serotonin is one of the primary controlers of our body clock. This is where researchers have their primary focus as to the cause of CH.
5htp is supposed to be the step between tryptophan and serotonin but when I took it (5htp) and reduced my tryptophan intake the CH came back with a vengence.
Sorry, that's about all I know.
Wishing you PFDAN,
Dell
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kimmyv1966
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Re: Tryptophan
« Reply #7 on: Jun 9th, 2003, 5:56am » |
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Thanks Dell!
I just find this thread very interesting, and just trying to figure out the connection and how the trigeminal system works.
Please keep us informed as to your progress!
Still searching for my cure,
Kim
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And there's a demon in my brain starts to overwhelm. And there it goes, my last chance for peace. I lay me down, but get no release...
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paragate
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Re: Tryptophan
« Reply #8 on: Jun 9th, 2003, 1:09pm » |
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I want to make a few corrections to what I've read in this thread.
As for tryptophan, it has not been banned by the FDA -- that's urban legend. The FDA's own website acknowledges that there is no ban. There is, however, a regulation that makes any manufacturer of tryptophan certify purity and safety, which has pretty much kept it off health food store shelves. But Google tryptophan -- you'll find some pharmaceutical quality distributors right here in the US.
As for 5-htp, the current science indicates that it is poorly absorbed from gut to bloodstream to brain. Some scientists have questioned whether, at any dosage, a sufficient quantity would make it all the way across the blood brain barrier. I've tried it for several things, and never felt the slightest effect, except for appetite supression, which make sense since you have so many seratonin receptors in the gut, and 5-htp is, roughly, seratonin.
I'd suggest those who want to supplement to elevate their seratonin levels obtain some pure, uncontaminated tryptophan, and perhaps add some melatonin at bedtime.
And I would definitely add a calcium/magnesium mix, which does seem to relax/smooth the blood vessels.
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Margi
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Re: Tryptophan
« Reply #9 on: Jun 9th, 2003, 1:18pm » |
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Well said, as usual, Paragate. Over the years here, we've discussed the natually occuring tryptophan in turkey and how it really can help....that's why most folks feel sleepy after Thanksgiving or Christmas turkey's - it really does promote sleep (which is a good thing for a clusterhead IF you can avoid the REM cycle!)
Our very own Doug Wright gave a great presentation in Vancouver on melatonin - you really have to give it a chance to work and don't give up right away on it, even if it does seem to make things worse, initially.
Check out Doug's presentation here:
http://www.clusterheadaches.org/conventions/2002/wright.pdf
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Bob P
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Re: Tryptophan
« Reply #10 on: Jun 9th, 2003, 1:37pm » |
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I believe 5HTP is the step before tryptophan. 5HTP>Tryptophan>5HT (serotonin).
Zomig and the other triptans work by mimmicking serotonin. They bind to specific serotonin receptor sites on the neurons thereby sending the singnal for the smooth muscle around the veins to constrict. They are a form of vasoconstrictor I guess you could say.
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paragate
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Re: Tryptophan
« Reply #11 on: Jun 9th, 2003, 5:25pm » |
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Actually, I believe it is tryptophan->5-HTP->5-HT. 5-HTP is 5-hydroxytryptophan, and 5-HT is 5-Hydroxytryptamine (seratonin). From what I've read in the literature, the body is designed to metabolize tryptophan (a naturally occurring essential amino acid) into seratonin. Not so, according to most studies, for 5-HTP. So taking supplemental tryptophan does lead to elevated blood serum levels of seratonin (which is why eating tryptophan rich foods, i.e., foods with relatively higher ratios of this amino acid to the others) may lead to a relaxed state, and theoretically to a relaxation of the walls of blood vessels in the brain, somewhat mitigating the full strength of the Beast.
For whatever reason, the body is not, according to what I've read, set up to absorb 5-HTP via the gut. I believe the studies out there based on 5-HTP supplementation have used IV administration, and presumably that could be a ticket to elevating seratonin. But first it has to get past the gut, where there are so many seratonin receptors, it's hard to do. Tryptophan, OTOH, is meant to be absorbed through the gut and processed into seratonin naturally.
BTW, we only process seratonin at about half of our capacity. So, the thinking goes, provide the raw materials and the body (including the brain) will take it and make even more seratonin.
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dellp
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Re: Tryptophan
« Reply #12 on: Jun 9th, 2003, 11:56pm » |
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I gotta tell you all how GREATyou are !
Your discussion pretty much explains every thing I have been experiencing with raw tryptophan and 5htp.
This is the info I’ve been hoping to find. As a matter of fact I got so excited I started all kinds of searches including this site. My juices started flowin’ the more I read. As far as I can tell (and I didn’t go too deep,) a few people have talked about this before. Only one person tried tryptophan with no results but did not mention dosage or much of anything. No one else has tried this.
That’s about the time the shadows came and insisted I take a break from the computer. A little time, some O2 and I just can’t stop thinking about all this.
I think I might have something not used in combination for clusters before by anyone but me. Formula 303 - I used it for years in my practice as a muscle relaxant, sleep aid and general relaxant with excellent results.
For a few cycles I used it with tryptophan and it was very effective in aborting the cycle even before the acupuncture had time to work. (Yeah, I suppose THAT really adds a touch of validity to my claims ) The 303 not only has the botanicals that potentiate serotonin, but magnesium is part of the formula, too. I’m not going to tell the story here either, but trust me when I say these two in combination can be powerful!
I found 303 on a yahoo search for ‘Dee Cee Laboratories’ and got lots of accurate hits. It’s almost cheap at less than $20 for 60 tablets including shipping.
Tryptophan with breakfast and dinner and two 303 with lunch and at bedtime. That’s MY plan and I’m sticking to it. Hope someone else is up to it. Let me know and keep in touch. If there is no change in the first few days - a week at the most, it just isn’t going to happen and I am sorry. But I am feeling real positive about this and would love to have somebody else give it at try.
I really do have to go now, shadows, past my bedtime and all that good stuff.
Check back Later. PFDAN to all.
Dell
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floridian
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Interesting to read that tryptophan IS available in the US and that the ban is an urban myth - guess I got took in by that one. Snopes(www.snopes.com) is a great site for urban myths that I read frequently, but I guess tryptophan is a little obscure for them.
I have read that tryptophan is better absorbed into the brain if taken on an empty stomach (not with meals). The reason is that there is a system for transporting that class of amino acids across the blood-brain barrier, and that transport system will get bogged down if there are other amino acids present in large amount.
I am certain that 5htp does reach my brain in significant quantities - when I started taking it (3 x 50 mg per day), I was somewhat sceptical, but became euphoric for a week. My wife was very suspicious and asked me about the big grin that wouldn't go away. Driving over the tall bridge from hell triggered no anxiety or fear of heights. Dreams became more vivid (or remembered), and morning wood was more pronounced. The euphoria subsided and I cut back on the dose, feeling more normal. Now its an occasional capsule for me when I feel out of sorts.
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dellp
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Re: Tryptophan
« Reply #14 on: Jun 17th, 2003, 9:22am » |
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To anyone following this thread -
It has been a week since ordering and I have not yet recieved my shipment of from DEE CEE Laboratories.
Trusting it is just some kind of bureacratic screwup. I'll check into it and hope I don't find a REAL scam!
Dell
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dellp
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Re: Tryptophan
« Reply #15 on: Jun 21st, 2003, 7:20am » |
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A couple updates:
Formula 303 has arrived. There were so many hits when I looked this stuff up on Yahoo, I somehow ordered from a Dr. Houk, not Dee Cee Laboratories. He did not send it until I emailed and asked where it was. Stay with Dee Cee Laboratories if you order, I worked with them for years and never had any problems.
The tryptophan is working very well - not perfect but I am real happy with the results. Wednesdays I go to a friends’ shop to work with his laser engraver on stuff for my new business and the fumes from burning/burnt MDF (fiberboard) triggers some shadows, but if I minimize exposure, they don’t develop into anything. Thursday’s I attend a class at a local community center that uses an unusual type of fluorescent lighting system - either the lights or unknown fumes (the building is only a couple years old) trigger ha also. 20 minutes is when the shadows start but wearing polarized sunglasses and closing my eyes a lot does seem to help. Otherwise the trypt is working fine with no shadows or ha.
This week I get to add the 303 to see if it helps with these triggers. These two together are powerful so I have to be careful. One morning years ago I had a 6 hour drive ahead of me and I took them together as I was loading the car (about 7 AM). Within 30 minutes I had to pull over. I slept through an alarm clock and trucks whizzing by just 25 yards away, and for 2 hours I was dead to the world.
I would love for someone else to try the trypt and 303 combo. There is strong scientific reasoning why this would (and for me, does) work. The T is over the counter and pharmaceutical quality. At $1 per capsule T is a little expensive but I will gladly send a couple days supply to a few people that would like to try - just let me know.
Anyway, that’s it for now. Catch ya on the flip side.
Dell
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The hell with 'love' everybody - how 'bout just respect for everybody
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MarkHW
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Re: Tryptophan
« Reply #16 on: Jun 21st, 2003, 8:05am » |
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Would Tryptophan be a problem if I'm on Celexa (SSRI like Paxil)?
I take Celexa for migraine (which I get along with my clusters).
I am a chronic cluster sufferer and would LOVE to try something!!! Nothing is working and I have another month until I get into the Mayo clinic in Arizona to discuss Ocipital Nerve Stimulation.
Mark
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dellp
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Re: Tryptophan
« Reply #17 on: Jun 21st, 2003, 7:52pm » |
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Mark, I honestly do not know the answer to your question.
My guess is that with trypt being a naturally occuring amino acid that the body absolutely needs to function properly, it should not interfere with any medication - and that is my GUESS. Since T is readily available in dairy and other foods, and assuming you have no dietary restrictions while taking your meds, I doubt there is any potential for problems but PLEASE check with your doctor before trying it.
Hoping your pf times are right around the corner,
Dell
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The hell with 'love' everybody - how 'bout just respect for everybody
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