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Topic: Disaster with Shrooms (Read 1648 times) |
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Flash
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Was getting hit intermittantly over the course of the last couple of months. Initially once a week, just shadows, then built up to a headache (kip3-4) every night.
4 weeks ago I dose with a small quantity of shrooms. The shrooms were Liberty Cap, and had been preserved in honey and kept in the fridge since last October.
For the 2 weeks subsequent to that dose the headaches cleared up completely.
I then fell ill with a nasty virus, it is along the lines of glandular fever only not quite as nasty, but much worse than the flu. This illness has lasted 2.5 weeks now and is clearing up. The problem is that the illness disrupted my sleeping patterns, my sleep at night was disturbed and I was sleeping a lot during the day.
The headaches came back, and I think this was mainly due to the disrupted sleep. Over the course of the last week they have gradually built up into a fully fledged episode.
I didn't want to take more shrooms while I was already feeling ill, so I waited until last night when I was feeling a bit better.
I had trouble extracting the shrooms individually and 40 shrooms plus a sizable blob of honey ended up in the pan. I brewed this into tea and drank 1/2 of it - figuring that would take me to the same place as last time (level 1). Normally 10 shrooms would get me to level 1, but the potency seems to degrade in the honey.
Well it appears that the psilocybin acutally enters the honey and remains there at it's full potency. Nothing much happened to me for 2 hours, then wham I was at a much higher level than I was comfortable with. I was also all alone since my wife was working in the bar.
I started to panic. Panicing when under shrooms is next to impossible to control. What I experienced could be be described as terror. Thoughts were racing through my head: How long would it last? Who could I call (at midnight)? Should I call an ambulance? Am I going to have a heart attack? What if I go insane? Bear in mind this is all coming in a confused rush and interspaced with hallucinations. I was pacing about, crawling on the floor, leaning out the window to get air. I called my wife at the bar, and asked her to hurry home. I was beginning to lose my ability to use the phone. I managed to get a number for the Samaritans and called them just to hear another voice. The problem is those people are trained to listen, and used to dealing with suicides, and the guy wanted me to do all the talking.
By the time my wife got home I was covered in sweat and shaking with fear. The shrooms came on at midnight, and Laura got home at 1am. That hour seemed to last a week. By 2am I was beginning to calm down, but still shaking and very scared. I didn't get to sleep until 5am. I really though I was going to die.
I have always been scared of hallucinogenic drugs, but the benefits of taking them in small doses outweighed my fear. At this point it's too early to say whether I will use them again - I did get a terrible scare. I fear that the same thing would happen next time. Bear in mind though that I have used this treatment for 10 years, and this is the only time it's gone wrong.
If I do take them again it will be 6 shrooms and no honey!!!
Feeling unwell obviously didn't help. Previously the shrooms have always made me feel really nice... although I always get a bit of anxiety on the uptake.
I'm posting this to make sure that everyone is fully clued up on the dangers of this treatment. I'm perfectly OK today, but last night was the scariest of my life.
In my experience very small doses as effective as larger ones - especially when taken between episodes. The problem we face is that until some drug manufacturer releases a pill with just the right quantity, there will always be a risk of taking too much. I've done something like 15-20 doses over the course of the last decade (that's not a lot, some people use that much Imitrex in a week). This is the first time that things have worked out badly for me, the problem is that when it does go bad, it is very frightening.
Incidentally I have been hit with more headaches starting from 0650 this morning, hopefully they'll dissappear over the next couple of days, but it is much harder to shift an episode once it's established like this. I often get shadows for a couple of days after, but this was 2 hours of #8... Being awake and cacking it all night obviously didn't do much for my short term prognosis!
I'll keep this thread updated as to what happens over the course of the next couple of weeks.
Flash
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suzy617
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Re: Disaster with Shrooms
« Reply #1 on: Apr 17th, 2003, 1:08pm » |
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I never tried this and dont think I will now. Spooky stuff.
Glad your ok and hope your on the road to PF.
Take care of yourself,
suzy
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pinksharkmark
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Re: Disaster with Shrooms
« Reply #2 on: Apr 17th, 2003, 2:29pm » |
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on Apr 17th, 2003, 6:36am, Flash wrote:
I had trouble extracting the shrooms individually and 40 shrooms plus a sizable blob of honey ended up in the pan. I brewed this into tea and drank 1/2 of it - figuring that would take me to the same place as last time (level 1). Normally 10 shrooms would get me to level 1, but the potency seems to degrade in the honey.
Well it appears that the psilocybin acutally enters the honey and remains there at it's full potency. |
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That is exactly what happened. The longer the shrooms remain in the honey, the more psilocybin is leached out of the mushroom flesh -- leaving them noticeably less potent as you have already observed from past experience -- but making the surrounding honey quite potent indeed. I have read on various entheogen community boards exactly how to maximize this effect, ending up with the famous "blue honey".
Quote:| If I do take them again it will be 6 shrooms and no honey!!! |
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This is why I have always recommended drying the mushrooms for longterm storage rather than storing them in honey. Apart from the fact that dried mushrooms retain their potency much longer, it greatly simplifies the estimation of dosage size. The only folks I know who still use honey storage are those living in the UK.
Please don't take this as a criticism, Flash, because it is not. I realize that because of the peculiarities of UK law regarding shroom possession, fresh mushrooms stored in honey are legal while dried mushrooms are illegal. There is much to be said for staying on the correct side of the law.
However, for most of us, shrooms are illegal to possess whether they are fresh-picked or dried or stored in honey or brewed into a tea, so I strongly recommend drying them to a "cracker-dry" state and storing them that way.
Quote:| I'm posting this to make sure that everyone is fully clued up on the dangers of this treatment. I'm perfectly OK today, but last night was the scariest of my life. |
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I gave you a lot of credit for your warning. As the first (and one of the most vociferous) advocate of this treatment to post your experiences on this message board, it would be all too easy for you to mention only the benefits and to gloss over or fail to report the possible hazards. I applaud your objectivity.
Quote:| I'll keep this thread updated as to what happens over the course of the next couple of weeks. |
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Hopefully that frightening experience will at least yield a remission of a decent length. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.
pinky
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Karla
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Re: Disaster with Shrooms
« Reply #3 on: Apr 17th, 2003, 2:56pm » |
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Glad you made it Bro. Sorry you had to go through that experience. Hopefully you will get some remission with this.
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Karla
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eyes_afire
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Re: Disaster with Shrooms
« Reply #4 on: Apr 17th, 2003, 6:56pm » |
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Flash,
I know the fear which you talk about. That scenario happened to me, except I still can't figure out exactly why since honey was not involved (but I was in the 2.5g - 3g dried range, so that's kinda pushing the envelope). I believe it was a combination of factors. My jaw dropped reading your description because it was extremely similar to mine. You are correct when you say the feelings are nearly impossible to control, I can vouch for that and I'm usually extremely controlled. I had to call my sister for company, it definately helps to have someone there (but often I'm alone and company is not an option  ).
I was able to dose several times afterwards but it was not as 'easy' as before. When I was dosing, I was deliberately dosing on the heavier side in order to see if 'more was better' (my personality style sometimes takes me to extremes). Based on my experience and what I've heard from others, there doesn't seem to be any advantage in reaching anything higher than trip level 2.
I still say that on a per dose basis, the psilocybin is the most effective CH treatment I've tried. But I wish that it had a more lasting effect for me as it has had for others. Although I THINK it helped calm down my cycle, it never really eliminated it for me, and I needed to dose weekly. But it did very much help me survive on a week-to-week basis, and prevented the fleecing of my wallet to the ridiculous imitrex prices.
I hope that you have eliminated your cycle.
PFD&N
--- Steve, one of many...
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Frank
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Re: Disaster with Shrooms
« Reply #5 on: Apr 17th, 2003, 9:20pm » |
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Woodstock Concert (1969) - "Don't take the brown acid, man". 
No, seriously.... when I was 18-19 I experimented with LSD quite a bit (that was 28 years ago). Mostly it was "groovy"... sat around, listened to music, watched the patterns in the carpet move around, saw cool stuff, etc. One night, I had a friend over and it was raining... actually there was a thunderstorm. I heard and saw little purple men with green rubber shoes with suction cups on them running across the roof all night (the rain) and police pounding on the walls of the house (the thunder). Sometime later my friend left and he had left a beer can on the floor... only I swear that I saw him turned into that beer can. That beer can on the floor was all that was left of my friend, and what was I going to say later if somebody came by the house later and wanted to know where he was? I was going to be busted. That was him (the beer can). I was so scared after that night I never touched LSD again.
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Marc
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Re: Disaster with Shrooms
« Reply #6 on: Apr 17th, 2003, 10:47pm » |
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Flash,
I want to mirror Pinky's comment:
I applaud your objectivity and sorry you had go through that!
Thank you,
Marc Kurth
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Flash
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Re: Disaster with Shrooms
« Reply #7 on: Apr 18th, 2003, 4:37am » |
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After my 2 hour kip8 subsided yesterday morning I was left with a migraine of kip1 - kip4 that lasted the rest of the day and well into the night. By 1am i had it down to kip one (practised a lenghty stint of self hypnosis) and managed to get to sleep whereby it faded out.
Woke up today with tender left temple and 'nippy' head - a bit like a mild hangover, nothing to write home about. It is now 1040am and no CH attack so far today. Don't know how this is going to shake out, but hopefully the episode will have been aborted (as is usual for me). The next 3-4 days are make or break. i'll be taking it easy and attempting to get a solid 8 hours sleep each night and eating 3 meals a day at regular intervals. Alchohol, smoking (not that I do anymore), stress, and exciting foods will be avoided.
The points I was trying to get accross in my last post were:
1) This treatment is not for everybody. That would change if it were possible to guarantee with 100% certainty that an exact subhallucinogenic dose could be achieved every time. Even drying and measuring in grams it is not certain as to how strong the mushroom is (and sometimes people aren't even sure of the species). I will conceed however that drying is much safer than fresh storage!!! There is also the human element... give someone a pill and they don't have a lot of options for screwing up. Tell someone to measure a gram of dried mushroom, and believe it or not there is room for error (oops I thought it said ounces etc). Unlikely but it wouldn't be the first time a human has fucked up. Take me for instance. I should have guessed the psilo would have leached into the honey.
2) This is the best treatment for CH, however it does have risks and we must be careful not to understate those. True the worst thing that can happen is technically an anxiety attack, but it's the worst anxiety attack know to man, and although it only lasts a couple of hours it feels like a week.
3) My attack yesterday reminded me of just how nasty CH is. I was miserable thinking that I might have to endure a month of this. I was worried about my businesses - would they survive a month of my being absent. I was worried about my wife - would she cope without me. CH is shit. With that in mind I have no option but to continue using shrooms. I need to be more careful, and I also need to go back to very small doses. I should return to dosing between episodes as this is more effective and it means I only have to dose twice a year.
4) I felt it was only fair to fill people in on any negative aspects that I experienced as well as the positive ones. If I have failed to abort this episode then I will advise that is the case. When it comes to this treatment it is important that we tell it straight.
5) If some drug company would invest in bringing a pill to market that contained the correct dose of psilocybin, and perhaps combined it with something like a beta-blocker (assuming that was safe to do) then all our problems would be solved.
Flash
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Pinkfloyd
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Re: Disaster with Shrooms
« Reply #8 on: Apr 18th, 2003, 1:07pm » |
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on Apr 17th, 2003, 6:36am, Flash wrote:I had trouble extracting the shrooms individually and 40 shrooms plus a sizable blob of honey ended up in the pan. I brewed this into tea and drank 1/2 of it - figuring that would take me to the same place as last time (level 1). Normally 10 shrooms would get me to level 1, but the potency seems to degrade in the honey.
Flash
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Thanks for the report Flash. Sorry you had to go through such a rough time. This is a good example of the importance of getting the "set and setting" prepared. I think its always a good idea to make sure you aren't alone and that you're always dose with the mindset that each episode might bring about a different and possibly more intense trip. Going places that you aren't mentally prepared to go can certainly be an unsettling experience.
I guess this demonstrates that we the "lab rats" still have a ways to go before we have all the possibilites documented properly.
Thanks again for the report. Until we get that little "pill" its important to spread the word on all the possible pitfalls. I think its also important to note that in your case, it appears that you dosed with 6 or 7 times the amount with which you normally dosed.
Hope this dose does the trick for a long time!
Be well
BobW
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stoneystone
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Re: Disaster with Shrooms
« Reply #9 on: Apr 21st, 2003, 1:00am » |
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Flash,
Man do I simpathize with you. I first tried shrooms about 10 years ago at a Halloween party in Boulder, Co. I had no idea what I was doing and drank several cups of tea and ate a number of caps. I have never felt terror like that in my life, liquid fear. The fear was the only feeling. Unfortunately for me it triggered panic attacks and crushing anxiety that lasted for years.
My clusters continue to eat away at my quality of life but I'm too terrifed to try the shroom treatment again. Even at a low level dose I think the anticipation of that fear would be too much. Best of luck Flash.
Stoney
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ozzythaman
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Re: Disaster with Shrooms
« Reply #10 on: Apr 21st, 2003, 8:18pm » |
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ever thought that psychedelics may be the cause of your CHs?
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Mikey
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Re: Disaster with Shrooms
« Reply #11 on: Apr 21st, 2003, 9:04pm » |
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As for you, Ozzythaman shut the fuck up until you know more than you do, because obviously you don't know a
fucking thing you're talking about. Thats after reading your other post too!
Mikey, 
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pinksharkmark
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Re: Disaster with Shrooms
« Reply #12 on: Apr 22nd, 2003, 12:56am » |
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If I may summarize the basic point of this thread:
1) It is important to one's peace of mind not to take too high a dose of mushrooms.
2) It is not always easy (particularly in the case of wild-gathered mushrooms) for an individual to determine in advance how much is too much.
The thing is, mushrooms vary in potency from batch to batch, species to species. As well, individual reactions to the same quantity of psilocybin vary widely -- give ten different people the exact same quantity of psilocybin, and there will almost certainly be one or two who report feeling much less "high" than the rest, and one or two who report feeling much more "high" than the rest.
I feel kind of silly stating the obvious here, but there are a few standard precautions that will reduce to almost zero the chances of experiencing a "bad trip" --
1) Start small. Don't glom down ten dry grams of an untried batch of mushrooms. Take a gram, evaluate, go from there.
2) Have a trusted companion on hand for the first dose, and take the dose in comfortable, familiar surroundings where the chance of interruptions is minimized.
3) If things do start to get a little intense, don't fight it. USE it. PLAY with it. Go with the flow.
I don't want to get into a big public debate over this, but I will say that it is NOT a given that once you start to get scared there is "nothing you can do" to counter it.
I repeat, I am NOT going to argue this point, so those of you who hold different opinions on the matter may as well hold your comments. Besides, the whole point of this post is to present techniques for never allowing the situation to reach that point at all.
Like most of the meds we clusterheads are forced to deal with, psilocybin if used incorrectly can have some unpleasant (temporary) side effects, particularly if recommended doses are exceeded. As Flash correctly points out, it is trickier determining proper dosage for psilocybin than it is for many other meds, so it is only sensible to err on the side of caution if there is the least doubt in your mind.
pinky
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Flash
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Re: Disaster with Shrooms
« Reply #13 on: Apr 22nd, 2003, 1:25pm » |
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Ozzythaman - ever think that stupidity may be the cause of your CH? No wait - you need a brain to be affected by CH.
I went until 4am Sun without an attack, so that was 2 whole days of remission. The 4am attack on Sun was what most people who have never had a #10 would describe as a #10. It lasted over 2 hours and involved me crying and begging to a higher power for mercy. The attack was so brutal that the back of my neck was still swollen in the morning, and Laura had to rub it for a long time to get me back to normal.
I then invoked PLAN B. PLAN B is what I do should the shrooms only achieve a partial success. In the 10 years that I have used this treatment this is only the fourth instance of an episode I have experienced. Prior to this my regular cycle was 1 month in every 6. So I should have had 20 episodes, instead I have had 4. Two of those were due to not having any shrooms, and therefore being unable to dose. The previous one was due to dosing too little too late. In that instance (back in 2000), the episode lasted 1 week as opposed to 1 month, but the headaches were more frequent, more intense, and lasted longer. It was as if I only experienced the peak week of the episode.
This time I had dosed successfully and aborted the episode a few weeks back. The episode returned, I believe because my sleep patterns were badly disrupted due to a nasty virus that has had me in bed for the best part of 3 weeks now. In my opinion the treatment would otherwise have been a success. The second dose I took was too strong for comfort, and that combined with feeling unwell resulted in the afore mentioned scare.
Since Sun I experienced only shadows throughout the rest of Sunday and all Monday until 4am Tuesday. Please note that PLAN B help avoid what might otherwise have been several attacks during that period. The 4am attack hit when I was sleeping, and came on extremely fast, so there was no time for PLAN B. The good news is that it only reached #7 and was over in an hour. I then had multiple short low level attacks along with background migraine all day today.
My typical episode used to involve 6 attacks each day of roughly 30mins - 1 hour. At peak (usually lasting 3 days) the attacked would increase in duration to 3 hours with a migraine constantly running in the background. The intensity would also rise to #9-#10 for that period. Everything would subside quickly in the week that followed the peak.
Like last time around all I have experienced is what feels like the peak. Until last night this consisted of only 2 actual headaches, and only 1 of those was serious. Last night the main attack was painful but beqarable and realtively short lived.
In my opinion the shrooms have made a dramatic improvment to my quality of like during this episode. no other medicine could have aborted the first 3 weeks entirely, and taken peak down to 3 headaches in 5 days.
Flash
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jonny
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Re: Disaster with Shrooms
« Reply #14 on: Apr 22nd, 2003, 2:46pm » |
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on Apr 22nd, 2003, 1:25pm, Flash wrote:| Ozzythaman - ever think that stupidity may be the cause of your CH? No wait - you need a brain to be affected by CH. |
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Flash dude,
Ozz doesent even have CH, hes only here to save us......LOL ;D
.............................jonny
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Flash
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Re: Disaster with Shrooms
« Reply #15 on: Apr 22nd, 2003, 3:40pm » |
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Fuck me sideways jonny - long time no see. I only visit the treatments section in this new board.
Flash
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jonny
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Re: Disaster with Shrooms
« Reply #16 on: Apr 22nd, 2003, 4:33pm » |
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Good to see ya, Flashman
I wander down here once in awhile to see if I can answer a question or two, im usually upstairs keeping the peeps on their toes.....LOL ;D
Viva la shrooms....(Did that make any sence?....LOL)
...............................jonny ;D
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firebrix
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Re: Disaster with Shrooms
« Reply #17 on: Apr 22nd, 2003, 5:27pm » |
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Thanx for the update Flash.
Glad the scary trip helped after all.
Hope the virus has gone and that the ha. pass quickly. Pinksharkmark wrote:
"3) If things do start to get a little intense, don't fight it. USE it. PLAY with it. Go with the flow."
I agree. Explore it and try to banish your fears. There are scarier things in life than the space between our ears!
Wishing you a speedy return to pain free days
firebrix
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michaelc
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Re: Disaster with Shrooms
« Reply #18 on: Apr 23rd, 2003, 4:18am » |
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Dude, Glad you're Ok! Scary huh?
I have had trips like that - it seems neverending at the time, but don't focus on that ...
High Dose Rule #1 - Don't fight it.
You can't control the intensity of it - it will keep exceeding whatever you can concieve of - The MOST insane possibilities keep happening - All of your psychological defenses and mental landmarks are obliterated - and the insane circus of the mind spews forth, relentlessly ...
All you can do is:
REMAIN AN OBSERVER -
you are an explorer in the inner world.
Don't act anything out, or act on any paranoias,
recognize your confusion, relax into it -
If you are VERY Afraid, then objectify it
and think to youself or Say out loud:
"I am tripping on mushrooms, which are not-toxic and will wear off in 3 hrs, and I am Very Scared of _______ and this is because mushrooms amplify emotions so presently they are amplifying my Fears"
say
"wow, i'm really fucking confused - Too confused to even determine if there is a problem or not" and put on some soothing music if possible and lay down, close your eyes and sink into the music.
The intense level of confusion and fear that you experienced can be changed in an instant to the same intensity of awe, wonder and joy.
Level 5 trips are almost ALWAYS SCARY. No way around it.
But Scary does not necessarily mean BAD. It's scary to ride a roller-coaster to the heart of the soul .... to confront your deepest fears and demons in startling fully-immersive 3-D timelesness. To have your body and even your mind explode into a million discrete fragments, Depersonalization is always unsettling to the attendant ego.
These are the high-dose mantra's -
Print them in ~~Rainbow Colors~~ and keep on hand!!!!!!(really)
"I ate mushrooms & It's gonna wear off in 3 hrs"
"REMAIN AN OBSERVER - Don't act anything out"
"it's just paranoia - relax"
"dont worry - be happy"
"gone fishin'"
best of luck in knocking out this cycle.
~michael
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firebrix
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Re: Disaster with Shrooms
« Reply #19 on: Apr 23rd, 2003, 2:52pm » |
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A little more on the fear aspect:
We are conditioned to fear. Its a survival technique.
I used to be fear-filled when I had to go deep into the bowels of some dark old boiler thru' a small hole, down a ladder to who knows where and occasionally wondered what would happen if I had to get out fast - like -" it took 5 mins to get IN here - how long's it gonna take to get out?" I used to work in a state of panic.
Mopar who had a lot more experience than I helped me this way:
"Sure I get a bit scared - its scary! BUT fear and exhilaration are very close cousins. All I do is tell myself that this is really really exciting and exhilarating - after all, not everyone gets to go where we do! Practise this and you'll see what I mean."
Y'know - it WORKS!! Whenever that flutter of fear occurred, I'd banish it with a severe talking to myself:
"CMON now. This is exciting! Thrilling even - better than that awful rollercoaster! AND I'm going to get out of here soon and have a nice cup of tea in the sun! I am NOT afraid. I am excited."
I am not saying that we should never fear anything, just that there are some things we react to with fear when this reaction is quite unneccesary.
Maybe this will help ??
firebrix
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Flash
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Re: Disaster with Shrooms
« Reply #20 on: Apr 23rd, 2003, 4:01pm » |
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I'll just build up to it slowly. The worst part was realising I'd overdone it and not knowing how far it would go.
PF all day today, and it's now 10pm. Some minor shadows that's all. This is my wimpiest episode ever (so far). Believe shrooms are to thank for so few HAs.
Flash
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Mark C
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Re: Disaster with Shrooms
« Reply #21 on: Apr 23rd, 2003, 4:41pm » |
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Reminds me of the movie "Billy Jack".
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das
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Re: Disaster with Shrooms
« Reply #22 on: Apr 24th, 2003, 4:58pm » |
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The fact that you were afraid to do the shrooms is usually a sure sign not to do them. All the things you experienced when "bad tripping" are the standard paranoia one can experience at a time such as that. You had a bad trip. Plain and simple.
You can control a bad trip easily by simply telling yourself its the drugs, it isn't real. Taking halucinogens isn't for the weak of mind. The things you described were just feelings of panic brought on by a lack of tolerance and uderstanding for the drugs you were taking.
My advice to anyone considering doing shrooms for the first time is to ask around and talk to people that have experienced the drug. They would easily be able to describe in detail the things you could expect.
BTW, it is evident that shrooms doesn't work for everybody and I highly doubt the fact that shrooms can worsen or bring on one's cycles.
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Re: Disaster with Shrooms
« Reply #23 on: Apr 25th, 2003, 1:44pm » |
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Das - that wasn't my first trip. I have been using this treatment since 1993. I am probably approaching 20 trips.
I had a trip only a few weeks before that originally aborted the episode (until my sleep was badly disrupted by a nasty long running virus). That trip was fine.
The problem was this time I lost control of the dose due to my method of preserving the shrooms in honey instead of drying them. I have always preserved in honey and this is the first time that has ever happened.
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Re: Disaster with Shrooms
« Reply #24 on: Apr 25th, 2003, 1:48pm » |
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Hit last 2 nights in a row. Frist night took care of it with PLAN B - no problem.
Last night it was out for blood, aborted first 2 but next one came on very fast and very powerful, then entered hell of 3 x 3 hour #10 headaches with only 10-15 mins in between them. Feel like shit today. See my main post on "Just how bad can it get". Feel to ill to do any shrooms at the moment, but may try over the weekend if things calm down.
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