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Topic: Upper neck misalignments and the brainstem (Read 2063 times) |
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subluxationskill
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Upper neck misalignments and the brainstem
« on: Mar 12th, 2003, 10:53pm » |
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Hello,
My name is drew hall. I practice a little known procedure called upper cervical(neck) specific. This procedure is interested in the upper necks relationship to the nerve system. I myself did not everhave cluster headaches however i suffered with daily headaches and other symptoms too numerous to mention. I was helped by an upper cervical doctor. I am not sure you are all aware of this fact; the nerve system controls and coordinates every function in the body. if the brain is able to send messages through the nerve system to all parts of the body with no interference then the body will work at its optimum for that individual. if a person has been in any sort of trauma and has misaligned the first cervical vertebrae this can impede neurologic function. Tjhe brainstem located in the upper neck is responsible for blood pressure regulation in the body, cardiac function, respiratory function, proper muscle tone through out hte body and much more. Anyway< many many conditions that have not responde dto conventional therapies are a result of this interference to the nerve system. i have seen all sorts of conditions respond to this care and many of them have been sent home by doctor after doctor and were told we dont know what is wrong but here are some drugs. DRUGS do no correct the cause of any health condition they either mask pain or change body chemistry into some norm the doctor thinks you should be in. It is much wiser to look to the nerve system since it controls and regulates everything. Have any of you noticed that your headaches started after s trauma????????/ also i find it interesting that terry wrote a post about pushing on his upper neck and getting relief. there is your connection between the neck the nerve system and headaches. If any of you are interested in talking to me about this i would be more than happy to talk to you. There arer answers out there if the medical peole havent found it then look elswhere. An upper cerivical specific doctor is a great place to start!!! Good luck to all. Have a fantastic day.
Your in health
Dr. Drew Hall
e-mail subluxationskill@hotmail.com
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Jarvis
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Re: Upper neck misalignments and the brainstem
« Reply #1 on: Mar 13th, 2003, 12:41am » |
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Thanks for the input doc. . Many chiropractors claim they can cure clusters and thusly many here become sceptical. Your input is straightforward and I hope it will benefit some. . Most of the cluster clan have not been the recipients of traumatic events prior to the onslaught of cluster headaches to my knowledge. What we need however, is more knowledge to confont this beast as its called. .Stick around help us out. Check the ouch site, surveys etc..
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| « Last Edit: Mar 13th, 2003, 12:43am by Jarvis » |
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Ueli
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Re: Upper neck misalignments and the brainstem
« Reply #2 on: Mar 13th, 2003, 9:01am » |
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Mr. Subluxationskill, you "suffered with daily headaches" and that makes you an expert on Clusterheadaches? About as much as everybody who folded a paper plane is a skilled airliner pilot. Where did you learn that the trigeminal nerve involved in CH makes a detour through the neck?
Show us one single case of CH "cured" by pushing around vertebrae before you try to sucker in CH sufferers to your cure-all business.
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Jarvis
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Re: Upper neck misalignments and the brainstem
« Reply #3 on: Mar 13th, 2003, 9:48am » |
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It is obvious that sublux needs to do his homework on Cluster headaches and I too hope that none here are detoured on the wrong path. I have been through the chiropractic path in the past and found it to be completely useless in the treatment of CH. . However maybe if Sublux does do his homework and realizes that this is not an issue of the spine, perhaps he can further the knowledge of the chiro community and the clusterheads. Knowledge is a step towards a cure. Seems most in his trade offer up the cure he did not. . Clusterheads be warned that very few if any have found relief with chiropractic manipulations.
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Hound_Dogg
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Re: Upper neck misalignments and the brainstem
« Reply #4 on: Mar 13th, 2003, 12:16pm » |
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If you are honestly trying to help us...Give us a free trial. We only pay if it works...
Do you understand how many treatments each and every one of us has tried...and then you "put down" the very Doctors who are actually trying to help. Through Imitrex and O2.
If something other then drugs works for someone...great. Or if you actually want to help us and will give your services (for free, or a nominal fee for your time)...great too. But if your using this board to "Spam" oe "sell" your business 
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kyphi
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Re: Upper neck misalignments and the brainstem
« Reply #5 on: Mar 13th, 2003, 12:42pm » |
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Hi there my name is Derek, i've been a ch sufferer for just over 20 years being chronic for around eight of those and episodic for the remainder. I think Drew has raised some highly relevent points here that are worthy of a lot more consideration. I believe one of the effects of this curse is that the sufferers (that's you and me) is that we tend to look very closely at our actions and environmental factors such as weather, time of year, food, smells ect. in order to find some causal link which we can anticipate and therefor avoid in order to stop further attacks. The question "why is this happening to me" is one that most of us ask everytime we find ourselves in utter agony. Here are a few of my meanderings which seem relevant in the context of Drew's post. My first attack occured as I leapt out of my bed one day in an awkward fashion, by the time my feet hit the floor I was experiencing the most intense agony which was accompanied with a sharp click in the area of my neck. At this point I did not connect the pain behind my eye with the click I had noticed. in fact since I felt the pain most intensly behind my right eye and temple I assumed the pain originated there (that's where I placed my fingers instinctivly in that "touch the sore bit" kinda way. It was not until years later during an attack that I allowed my fingers to move from my temple ( which did not ease the pain in anyway) to the top of my neck on the pain side. This somehow felt closer to the source of the pain, by applying varying degrees of pressure I could slightly alter the pain. Not to the extent of stopping it (although later I sometimes could), but I could give myself a little relief. (and we all need a little relief don't we  ?) Anyway this somewhat insignificant detail was enough to change my thinking about my condition and I became convinced that this area of my neck was the key to controling and hopefully curing my condition. Rather than consulting my GP for headaches ( I didn't know that what I had was called clusters at this time) I now wanted to be treated for neckpain and asked to see a physiotherapist. At this time I was having one - two attacks daily and was living in absolute fear. While in one of my sessions with her she induced an attack by accident, I began to feel the usual symptoms heart rate increase, getting flushes and neck spasm , I told her this, and rather than get worried she simply said "that's excelent" and proceeded to manipulate my head and neck. I'll tell you I did not share her enthusiasm! But after about 30 secs. I had no pain, I mean nothing. She said that sometimes the cartilige between vertibrae sometimes becomes worn and loses its elasticity which causes a nerve to become trapped between the vertibrae and gave me a series of exersises to allow the cartilige to heal. Now I have to say that these were not immediatly successfull as I still had attacks but over the period of about six months to a year they became far less frequent and eventually stopped for about two or three years. That's right no pain for years! I eventually gave up these exersises which caused my clusters to return although they tend to be cyclic of about one to three months duration. "Is that it I hear you say". Well no having examined my past several features have emerged that also seem to support the notion that SOME cluster sufferes pain has its origin in the neck. When I was a kid I had the habit of sleeping with my head on a big stack of pillows, i'm sure this had an effect on me developing ch later on. When I was a teenager this older guy used to get a real kick out of puting my head in a headlock and squeezing my neck really tight . this went on all through my adolesence ( I still see his face everytime I have an attack. I'd love to kick his sorry ass now) i'm sure this had something to do with ch. When I have an attack i'm constantly trying to alter my posture around my neck and head as if finding the right position would stop the pain. My headaches are accompanied by a clicking noise in my neck. The only meds i've had any lasting bennefit from are naproxin and tramadol. Both of these painkillers are used in the relief of inflamation, rhumatic and arthritic pain as well as other muscoskeletal disorders. Makes you think doesn't it?
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kyphi
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Re: Upper neck misalignments and the brainstem
« Reply #6 on: Mar 13th, 2003, 12:53pm » |
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This is actually part of the post above
Unless you believe your headaches are the result of divine (or demonic ) intervention the cause of your headaches are in your life somewhere, it's something we do but are not aware of. Can you honestly say that you are fully aware of what your body is doing all of the time. Is it not true to say that your body reacts to everyday situations without your conscious control. For example when we are depressed what happens to our posture? It slumps right? This means your head is no longer being supported properly by your neck, your neck is now under the strain of supporting your head. It might not matter in the short term but if this becomes habitual something will give eventually and you will feel pain. And i'll bet that you will look for something that happened when the pain started as a cause. I know I do. I think this is why it's so hard to identify the triggers for ch . I don't really understand the mechanism that turns a neckpain (that's pain in the fucking neck to you and me) into a cluster attack but it feels like when a sort of critical mass is reached clusters start. As if when a nexus of nerve endings is over stimulated the whole system takes a nose dive and goes into meltdown.
Anyway it's almost time for tea so i'm going to split but before that I would like to say that I realize that the causes for clusters are manifold and that what Drew is suggesting may be of no value to some or even most there will be some of us out there who will benefit from some sort of physical treatment . Don't just try physio or any manipulative therapy once or twice mid cycle and say it didn't work. I know how hard it is to break a cycle once it gets a hold. Try getting therapy at the end of your cycle and keep at it in prep of your next one and see if it helps. It might not stop clusters immediately but over time it might just be the thing you need. What have you got to lose. For anyone who feels there pain has a basis in the neck I recommend naproxin slow release and or tramadol 500ml these drugs have saved my sanity on numerous occasions and broken several cycles in mid flow. Finally Drew if you would be interested, and if I can, I would be glad to help with anything you want to know about cluster headaches. Thanks to all for taking the time to read this, it's been as much of a chore for me as it has for you ;D derryberry69@hotmail.com. Bye now
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Bob P
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Re: Upper neck misalignments and the brainstem
« Reply #7 on: Mar 13th, 2003, 1:27pm » |
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kyphi,
If your headaches originate in your neck, you have cervicogenic headaches, not clsuter headaches.
If your headaches originate in your neck, whoever told you have clusters was wrong.
Here is your web site:
http://www.cervicogenic.com
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| « Last Edit: Mar 13th, 2003, 1:28pm by Bob P » |
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Mrs. Barlow, I never, and I repeat never, ever pissed in your steam iron.
"SHUT UP HUB!"
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cbolony
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Re: Upper neck misalignments and the brainstem
« Reply #8 on: Mar 13th, 2003, 2:17pm » |
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Bobp i agree with you 100%
I get the same CH every year 4 weeks of 3-4 ch aday 8-10 kip then they start to come down 1-2 lower kips until they just go away after about 8 weeks. I get 3-4 cycles a year been that way since 1996.How can a Upper neck misalignments do that to me are you fucking kidding me
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rumplestiltskin
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Quote:| Finally Drew if you would be interested, and if I can, I would be glad to help with anything you want to know about cluster headaches. |
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You two deserve each other.
good grief
den
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subluxationskill
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Re: Upper neck misalignments and the brainstem
« Reply #10 on: Mar 13th, 2003, 11:45pm » |
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Bob,
Do you know that diagnosis means literally two peoplke that dont know? All a diagnosis is is some arbitrary name placed on a group of symptoms. Or some lab test that is said to be out of the norm. All diagnosis is a man made convention. Do all people with cluster headaches exhibit the same symptoms? Why not? Is ch caugth in the wind by inhaling. I mean what is it ? What is its cause. I am in noway invalidating that which is felt by ch sufferes. my bif with you is you think categorizing effects somehow will lead to getting to a cause. If all you look at is effects how do you ever arise at a cause. if you treat effects how does that ever get to cause?
This will sound ludicrous to you because you are so stuck in the medical way of thinking that you are unable to see outside of it. You see I have been on both sides . And after being on the other side I will never go back to that encrusted way of thinking.
drew
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Ted
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Re: Upper neck misalignments and the brainstem
« Reply #11 on: Mar 14th, 2003, 12:04am » |
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Main Entry: di·ag·no·sis
Pronunciation: "dI-ig-'nO-s&s, -&g-
Function: noun
Diagnosis - Inflected Form(s): plural di·ag·no·ses /-"sEz/
Etymology: New Latin, from Greek diagnOsis, from diagignOskein to distinguish, from dia- + gignOskein to know —more at KNOW
(NOTE: It doesn't say "From dia, meaning two + gnosis, meaning people don't know." And the "dia" prefix means "through, apart, from dia; akin to Latin dis-
: through <diapositive> : across <diadromous>. So, literally, your definition of "diagnosis" is wrong, doc.)
Date: circa 1681
1 a : the art or act of identifying a disease from its signs and symptoms b : the decision reached by diagnosis
2 : a concise technical description of a taxon
3 a : investigation or analysis of the cause or nature of a condition, situation, or problem <diagnosis of engine trouble> b : a statement or conclusion from such an analysis
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subluxationskill
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Re: Upper neck misalignments and the brainstem
« Reply #12 on: Mar 14th, 2003, 12:29am » |
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Ted,
respond to the rest of the post would you?
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Ted
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Re: Upper neck misalignments and the brainstem
« Reply #13 on: Mar 14th, 2003, 12:46am » |
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Sure. Sorry I didn't earlier. About the rest of your post? I think you're a windbag that doesn't know what he's talking about. And scarier, you're in the field to treat people's ailments and you don't even know the definiton of "diagnose," which is a large part of your profession.
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Jarvis
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Re: Upper neck misalignments and the brainstem
« Reply #14 on: Mar 14th, 2003, 12:47am » |
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Somehow I just knew right from the start of this thread that I personally was going to attain great knowledge ............................... I had no idea that the word "diagnosis" had descended from the greek word "diagiginOstein". ;D
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| « Last Edit: Mar 14th, 2003, 12:49am by Jarvis » |
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BobG
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Re: Upper neck misalignments and the brainstem
« Reply #15 on: Mar 14th, 2003, 12:58am » |
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Jarvis, it's a corruption of Caesar Diogines O’stein.
He was from Ireland and introduced green beer to Greece and gave everyone a cluster headache.
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Stay stressed. Never relax. Never sleep. Ever.
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Bob P
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Re: Upper neck misalignments and the brainstem
« Reply #16 on: Mar 14th, 2003, 8:41am » |
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Cracker (or is that quacker),
Quote:| my bif with you is you think categorizing effects somehow will lead to getting to a cause. If all you look at is effects how do you ever arise at a cause. if you treat effects how does that ever get to cause? |
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First I think he means beef not bif.
Second, if my front tire on my car is wearing faster on the inside than on the outside (effect), it leads me to believe my wheels are out of alignment (cause). Funny how that works isn't it. I mean when you deal with facts instead of the bullshit you're pushing. I suggest you stick to curing bedwetting with your procedure and leave the real maladies to the professionals.
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Mrs. Barlow, I never, and I repeat never, ever pissed in your steam iron.
"SHUT UP HUB!"
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Bob P
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Re: Upper neck misalignments and the brainstem
« Reply #17 on: Mar 14th, 2003, 8:55am » |
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Subhuman,
You realign the top vertebre, axis is it. In doing so you let the thousands of nerves which travel through the small opening in it, into the spinal column, transmit their messages correctly. When you do this you cure the following maladies:
Allergies
Arm Pain
Asthma
Athletic Injuries
Attention Deficit
Disorder
Back Pain
Bed Wetting
Carpal Tunnel Syndrome
Cerebral Palsy
Child Developmental
Problems
Chronic Fatigue Chronic Infections
Chronic Pain
Constipation
Depression
Diabetes
Digestive Problems
Dizziness
Dyslexia
Dystonia
Ear Infections
Epileptic Seizures
Eye Infections
Female Disorders
Fever
Fibromyalgia
Flu Symptoms
Frequent Colds
Hay Fever
Headaches
Heart Conditions
Herniated Disks
High Blood Pressure
Hip Pain
Hyperactivity
Immune System Deficiency
Indigestion
Infertility
Knee Problems
Learning Disability
Leg Pain
Loss of Sleep
Low Back Pain
Migraine Headaches
Multiple Sclerosis
Muscle Spasms
Neck Pain
Nervousness
Neuralgia
Neuritis
Neuropathy
Numbness & Tingling
in Limbs
Organ Dysfunction
Parkinson's Disease
Poor Vision
Post-polio
Problems from car/
sports/slip/fall accidents
Rheumatoid Arthritis
Scoliosis (how the heck does it help curvature of the spine?)
Shoulder Pain
Sinus Problems
Sleeping Disorders
Spasmodic Disorders
Stiffness
Tendonitis
Tight Muscles
T.M.J. Syndrome
Torticullis
Trigeminal Neuralgia
Whiplash
And countless more. . .
Now, please answer my question (from the headache clinic post). What is a cluster headache. Where does it originate from? What nerve is causing the pain? Does this nerve even pass through the axis?
It's plain to see from the list of things you cure that your proceedure is right up there with Oxyclean. There isn't anything you can't fix. If anyone on this board believes that, well then you do deserve each other.
BTW - Yes, everyone here works for free in OUCH. Ted has put in a lot of hours and effort in helping clusterheads via his OUCH work.
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| « Last Edit: Mar 14th, 2003, 9:30am by Bob P » |
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Mrs. Barlow, I never, and I repeat never, ever pissed in your steam iron.
"SHUT UP HUB!"
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subluxationskill
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Re: Upper neck misalignments and the brainstem
« Reply #18 on: Mar 14th, 2003, 10:14am » |
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BoB,
you obviously again did not read the site very well. Nor do you understand uppe cervical chiropractic again. you are showing your ingnorance about the procedure. Yes I myslef have almsot all of those conditions respond in my office. It does not cure anything. That is the bodies job. And all people with all sorts of these condtitions will respond differently. Not all peopl who have all of those condtions are a result of brainstem interference. In almost alll disease processes there are usually more thatn just one factor.
Second you are are right about hte car example. However what medicine does is change the tires not correct the alignemnet. In fact that is a wonderful example. Medicine cjhanges the tires and then wonders why they are right back to where they started after those tires wear again. Take some drugs alter the symptoms as soon as the drug wears off you are right back to where you started. Better to correct the alignemetn the cause. So was trying to convey is cause verrsus symptoms.
And to answer your question about nerves and tracts that do this and that. That again is a fools game. Go back and read this site for a better explanation about what upper cervicals goals are www.erinelster.com
Drew
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Ueli
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Re: Upper neck misalignments and the brainstem
« Reply #19 on: Mar 14th, 2003, 12:23pm » |
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Subluxationskill wrote:
Quote:Bob,
Do you know that diagnosis means literally two peoplke that dont know? |
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Ted offered another definition quoting from a dictionary. But "The pharmaceutical octopus has brainwashed our public into believing that drugs are their only alternative", and only these victims accept the definition of "diagnosis" given by Ted.
In the subluxation business it is customary to point at X-ray pictures of the spine, where the subluxations are allegedly visible. However, an other disciple of this craft sees on the same picture a subluxation in another position, and therefore makes his own X-ray (after all, X-ray machines are soon paid off, and are afterwards efficient moneymakers).
So, when two neck wringers or spine adjusters see different subluxations as the cause in the same patient, don't we have then a diagnosis in the sense "two people that don't know" ?
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Nasser
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Re: Upper neck misalignments and the brainstem
« Reply #20 on: Mar 14th, 2003, 1:06pm » |
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Again, again and again ....
Ignorance of the Drug Pushers
I luv you guys
I am still CH free
PF to u all.....
P.S. I'll come back once in a while
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Do the do before the do does you
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Bob P
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Re: Upper neck misalignments and the brainstem
« Reply #21 on: Mar 14th, 2003, 1:22pm » |
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Hey Nasser,
Just curious where you got drugs out of a discussion re Sublaxaitve's scam?
PF here too. Been 1 year 7 months. How long for you?
Lets see. You're 42-43 years old. That's right around when my remissions jumped from 8-9 months to 2 years. Maybe you got as lucky as I did. On the flipside, when my remissions got longer, so did my clusters. Instead of 4-6 week clusters, they now go as long as 15 weeks. Maybe you'll get as lucky as me.
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Mrs. Barlow, I never, and I repeat never, ever pissed in your steam iron.
"SHUT UP HUB!"
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Ueli
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Re: Upper neck misalignments and the brainstem
« Reply #22 on: Mar 14th, 2003, 2:19pm » |
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Hi Nasser,
I may be ignorant, but I don't push drugs, in fact I spend lots of money to buy some. But with all the Verapamil, Relpax and oxygen I buy I can live a relatively pain free life.
We get a lot of newbies all the time, so don't you think you should for their benefit post once more your CH cure of kneeling in lukewarm water and brushing your hair? Maybe sublux could add some comment on the stroke to use so your vertebrae stay in the proper place.
And don't forget to use your teeth guard at night, to prevent the return of TMJ.
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Dave_W
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Pain Free Days!!!
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Re: Upper neck misalignments and the brainstem
« Reply #23 on: Mar 14th, 2003, 2:28pm » |
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Whoa, wotta deal!
I think I can throw some real data into this discussion that will help disprove the neck alignment theory once and for all.
Just got back from Panama City  . It's spring break time. During my strolls on the beach, I am absolutely positive that I re-aligned my neck into every position that is geometrically possible as my peripheral retinae were stimulated by thong bikinis from every direction. Many of my neck re-alignments were so severe as to inspire awe in bystanders, and some even approached configurations that Euclid himself couldn't describe.
I had headaches before, during, and since.
QED neck bones and their positioning have nothing to do with cluster headaches. We can double-check this conclusion by observing that all a neck bone is good for is flavoring tomorrow's soup. It plays no part in the primary feast itself. End of discussion.
You go, BobP!! Been thinkin' of ya, old buddro. Nice job Ted too, and all the others who fanned the good flame with this quack. We are now victorious and cannot be disputed.  ;D ;D
Pain Free Days! Huzzah!!
The Olde Goober
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Old Decrepit Dave
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Bob P
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Re: Upper neck misalignments and the brainstem
« Reply #24 on: Mar 14th, 2003, 4:33pm » |
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Ueli,
Don't forget rubbing Vicks on the bottom of your feet.
I was wondering what prompted Nasser to jump into this thread. Birds of a feather I guess.
I was feeling kind of bad that I had basically wished him longer clusters. Now I don't feel bad at all.
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Mrs. Barlow, I never, and I repeat never, ever pissed in your steam iron.
"SHUT UP HUB!"
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