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Topic: What is with this circadian rhythm thang? (Read 1550 times) |
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Cry-or-die
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What is with this circadian rhythm thang?
« on: Aug 12th, 2002, 3:44pm » |
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Circadian rhythm = the biological cycle (your internal clock)
Hmmmm, I just did a bit of research on ACTH and found that it is very circadian rhythm oriented. Levels of ACTH are lowest at about 12 midnight and highest at about 8am. Hmmm. I'm curious about this circadian rhythm thang...mine come every 13 - 16 months in 6 - 10 week cycles. Same consistency, start relatively easy to handle working up to kip10 (in my own estimation of my experience of pain...10 being unbearable and wanting to die) and then dissappearing altogether after a 4-7 days of shadow headaches as the effects of the 6-10 weeks of pharmaceuticals wears off.
Wtf is with that??? why such a close knit pattern? Almost like a routine of it's own...a scheduled event in the pituitary? Is it hormones? Pain is only the end result....we need to find out what the cause is. Dilation of blood vessels instigates pain, but what is dilating the vessels?
Personally I'm tired of treating the effect and not the cause. We all have this dirorder in common so it's not like there is a shortage of willing participants that would gladly accept some radioactive protiens to the cause of science and PET scans if it will help get rid of the pain. I will, I volunteer!~
Pick me!!!
I am beginning to see the value of hearing all the different things people have tried and it has helped me to make some of my choices...and for this I thank you all.
But I want real pain freedom and I'm contemplating going to school for neurology...specializing in CH's 
I want to be...
chemical free...
But I'll take lots now for none later 
We need to look at the clock to find out what this is about, I got a feeling......some kinda CNS short circuit
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SteveY
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Re: What is with this circadian rhythm thang?
« Reply #1 on: Aug 12th, 2002, 5:09pm » |
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Believe me,
There are some very clever people doing that now.
Have faith, the cure will come.
PFDAN
Steve
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Bob P
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Re: What is with this circadian rhythm thang?
« Reply #2 on: Aug 13th, 2002, 8:39am » |
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Visit the OUCH research library and read the articles on the hypothalamus.
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Mrs. Barlow, I never, and I repeat never, ever pissed in your steam iron.
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firebrix
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Re: What is with this circadian rhythm thang?
« Reply #3 on: Aug 13th, 2002, 3:10pm » |
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Its all chemistry my friend and quite hard to get one's head around.
There's a lot on the net about it. Try a Google Search on seratonin after Bob's good advice to check the Ouch site.Read all the links and check out the archives. Many of Pink Shark Mark's posts help newbies to understand the concept after reading the real tech stuff.
It's actually fascinating what the brain does while we are unaware!
If you really want to be chemical free (don't we all?) have you considered the New Therapy? Many people find it has worked for them. Research everything first however.
I spent weeks reading to understand the hypothalamus and seratonin!! A picture emerges though, and in doing so we have increased our own awareness and bring ourselves to a point of understanding where we can comprehend meds and possible treatments.
Good luck! E mail me if you need some links.
firebrix
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Ted
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Re: What is with this circadian rhythm thang?
« Reply #4 on: Aug 13th, 2002, 3:20pm » |
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Cry. there really is a lot of very good information here from years of us doing just what you're doing now: Looking for answers. take the time to read the information on this site and in the OUCH library. The hypothalamus (something you asked about in another post) and circadian rhythms are all involved.
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Ted
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Re: What is with this circadian rhythm thang?
« Reply #5 on: Aug 13th, 2002, 3:25pm » |
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You also might want to read the article documenting there are times the pain starts before the dilation of the blood vessels, meaning that's not necessarily the cause of the pain.
You've got some good posts here. Keep plugging away.
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paul_b
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Re: What is with this circadian rhythm thang?
« Reply #6 on: Aug 13th, 2002, 10:59pm » |
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Thank you Den. Great post. Always felt family history involved but did not associate it to geography as well. Analogy with birds sent a chirp to my brain---I think you may be right on.
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Bob P
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Re: What is with this circadian rhythm thang?
« Reply #7 on: Aug 13th, 2002, 11:31pm » |
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Then again, if you look at the daylight/seasonal thingy in the cluster survey, with over 11,000 responses you get:
Spring (Mar-May) 1583 14%
Summer (Jun-Aug) 1001 9%
Fall (Sep-Nov) 1590 14%
Winter (Dec-Feb) 920 8%
Randomly 3874 35%
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Mrs. Barlow, I never, and I repeat never, ever pissed in your steam iron.
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oringkid
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Re: What is with this circadian rhythm thang?
« Reply #8 on: Aug 14th, 2002, 10:24am » |
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The latitude thing doesn't make too much sense to me. If my parents were born above 45 degrees (I have no idea, they were both born and raised in VA) Why do I have CH and my brothers don't?
How come people whose total ancestry is Australian get it?
The light part might make some sense though. Many of us get our cycles around the time that we go in or out of daylight savings.
I recently moved to AZ and AZ does not do the DS thing and I started a cycle after a 2 year remission right after the time that I would have normally gone through the DS change but didn't.
I don't know...................
Sherry
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Bob P
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Re: What is with this circadian rhythm thang?
« Reply #9 on: Aug 14th, 2002, 10:47am » |
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The light thing:
The point of my post above was that 3000 start cycles in spring//fall - when daylight changes.
6000 don't go into cycle in spring/fall.
So many do start when light changes but many more don't.
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Mrs. Barlow, I never, and I repeat never, ever pissed in your steam iron.
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Cry-or-die
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Re: What is with this circadian rhythm thang?
« Reply #10 on: Aug 14th, 2002, 12:56pm » |
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This is a short one...lol...the long winded one is incoming!!!lol
Food for thought coming soon! Replies first tho ;D
Steve...I believe you...lol
BobP...I went there and read lots (ouch site) ...thanks....and the light cycle changes every day as far as I know. I don't think that there is a correlation between CH and SAD (seasonal affective disorder). It is because of the high response to random occurance that makes me doubt the seasonal part. I am random, but in a pattern...July/aug, Nov/Dec, Feb/march, These are a few of my least favorite months...lol...except summertime with no CH ;D
Firebrix...I know about the chem thang, I have taken 1st year chem and 2nd year bio...so while I may be a newbie at the posting board, I am neither a newbie to CH nor biological functions and physiology. No, I have not tried the New therapy for Ch although I am very interested in it. Can someone help with spore prints? I have my atrium ready....just need prints. I will do a preventative dose every 6 months and just before the next cycle is supposed to start. I also understand the relationship of hypothalamus-pituitary in the active dilation of vessels, I just wanna know what comes before that ;D Thanks for the input..it all helps to piece together the puzzle firebrix
Ted...I have read oodles of stuff from my heaven sent page made by the ch demi-god named DJ!!!! Thanks DJ I am also aware of pain starting before the actual dilation, I use this as my cue for taking abortive meds...I find that I can feel the dilation of my carotid artery before anything else...then the stuffy nose and then pain rapidly follows that indicator for me. Thanks for the encouragement.
Den...I am skeptical of the latitude thing Maybe it is a sign that there is another iceage coming and we should migrate south...but I doubt it...lol...and while the ch cycle is quite predicable in frequency and duration of cycles in an individual , there is too much differentiation in individuals and within the group to make it seasonal. Also, there is no family history of migraines of CH in any of my family or extended family that I know of.
There are common factors that we all experience with CH, we need to find out what that thing is. I'm not ruling out any theories at this point, but good thoughts keep 'em comin'!
Thank you all for your interest and responses, I am greatful to all of you for trying to help me get it.
Another biggie to follow this one...here it comes!!!
Get your glasses if ya got 'em...lol.
Luv ya all.
chat soon!
Cry-or-die
aka mikeyd
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| « Last Edit: Aug 14th, 2002, 12:57pm by Cry-or-die » |
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Cry-or-die
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Re: What is with this circadian rhythm thang?
« Reply #11 on: Aug 14th, 2002, 1:12pm » |
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Hello everyone! Got your gogz on? here it goes!
My CH's seem to be asscociated with a different kind of beat (rhythm), 13-16 months apart lasting 6-10 weeks. I started just in time to screw up the kids summer holidays. Mine show up therefore at all seasons. which means I'll get them again around christmas time next year  I have done a ton of research and reading on the neurology and chemistry on the blood vascular system, neuropathology and associated ganglion.
I read a paper by Dr. Goadsby that indicates that cluster sufferers have a specific portion of the brain that has become enlarged in comparison to those who do not.
I was also looking at neuropathology and found that it could be pathology related. It seems that although we DO all have the same nerves and nerve centers such as the trigeminial nerve, sphenopalatine ganglion...you all know what I mean....I hope...lol
Anyhow, it seems that the pathophysiology is different in many cases. It seems about 99% of peoples neural pathways follow some 11 different routes or general patterns connecting and intertwining in different ways. to reach thier destination in the maxilliary, facial, temporal, etc. areas where they terminate.
Just wondering if when they were looking at these patterns if they came across a DIFFERENT neural map of a clusterhead...maybe not because since it is only 0.1-0.4% of the population, maybe our map was undiscovered. Maybe...I dunno...I'm still looking tho. on to the next post.....sigh...it's too long...lol
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Cry-or-die
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Re: What is with this circadian rhythm thang?
« Reply #12 on: Aug 14th, 2002, 1:13pm » |
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Also I found a VERY INTERESTING statistic and some laws that almost threw me into borderline rebellion-like rage. I found that many illnesses are caused by mercury poisoning. Mercury, being a bioaccumulant, is thought to be a leading cause of headache (as well as a host of other debilitating conditions, many mental). What surprised the hell outta me was:
1)They still use mercury/silver compounds in dental fillings!!!! Mercury fillings can leech up to 14micrograms of mercury per day...possibly more if there is corrosion of the filling! (keep in mind that this is per filling)Mercury is also very poisonous to the nervous system and it seems to accumulate in low spots (the heavier than water thing)and has an affinity for neurons (although I may be mistaken in this analysis and interpretaion)
2)Get this one: 87% of people (468/532 headache sufferers i think was an approximate ratio...I'm going from memory) reported improvement/cure of thier headaches after having all mercury fillings removed and doing a body cleanse using some kind of body flushing program to remove the bioaccumulated mercury from the body!!!! 87 f****ng % (Needless to say I am getting some toxicity tests ordered up on my next trip to the GP)
3) (this pissed me off even tho I'm canadian)The ADA (American Dental Association) has passed laws in some states stating that removal of mercury fillings is unethical. I also (like the author who wrote this page stated) believe it to be a big financial cover-up because if they were to admit that Mercury IS in fact a serious risk to health, the government and insurance companies would have to fork over billions to remove this toxic shit from our mouths. So istead they just keep putting in there to cover up thier fuck up. Another thing I found that a few dentists were quoted as saying that after removal of these fillings they had to be taken to a hazardous waste facility...too toxic to throw in the garbage or landfill, but not our mouths????
Anyhow this is my postulation:
In conjunction with the different neuropathology specific to us (CH'ers), maybe, just maybe we are dealing with mercury and/or other heavy metals (lead for example) slowly bioaccumulating until it becomes a problem. It affects people in different ways based on neuropathology (may manifest as migraine, CPH, CH, etc...) I'm sure you get my drift. This would partially explain why the average age of onset is 20-50 years old. Many people don't get any dental work done until thier teens or early 20's....like me. I'm not saying it's all dental, obviously there are other sources of heavy metals in the environment. The point is though...once you have enough in you to begin the cycles...it never goes away...bioaccumulant. I am also wondering if the characteristics of the cycle are related to some sort of purging mechanism designed to flush the neurons,ganglion, or wherever it is being stored...causing remission until a time that the levels are again high and the nervous system requires another purge, hence another cycle. The dilation of blood vessels and increase in BP is a really good flushing mechanism and the headbanging stirs it up a bit too I'm sure...lol.
It seems oddly circadian like, but I can get one anytime during the day...it has favorite times, but shows up whenever it wants to it seems...usually at the most inopportune times.
So now a few questions...has anyone tried a mecrury cleansing program as a treatment?
Has anyone had toxicity tests done to determine if it is in fact heavy metals giving us grief?
Like I've said in other posts, I'm tired of treating the effect, I want to find the cause. Most of the research I have read about is all effect based. Hypothalamus, hormones, receptors, blockers, vasoconstrictors and dilators, pituitary, neurological...etc.
I'm sick of all this perscription crap tearing apart my head...it messes me up bigtime and I hate it (but unfortunately I hate it less than the beast  )
I am also interested in some spore prints so I can treat my clusters organically instead of chemically without side effects. I will listen to all of the invaluable advice given by our good friends whom are experienced like Flash, Pinky, Monique and Mastiff and all the others whose valuable experience has been posted here for us all to read.
Just a side note for any researchers that might read the post...I'm wondering if there is a compound that bonds to mercury in psylocibes and removes it from the body through the feces or urine?
Man...am I long winded MOFO or what!!! LMAO
Sorry about that 
At any rate, I hope that there is some new food for thought for us to chew on...all responses are welcome...thanks everyone again....esp DJ 
Pain free days are comin' soon
Cry-or-die
aka mikeyd
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Cry-or-die
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Re: What is with this circadian rhythm thang?
« Reply #14 on: Aug 14th, 2002, 3:31pm » |
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Ah yes, but consider the source. THE ADA? U.S. government. Pharmaceutical companies have way more pull than you might realize.
Furthermore....why has mercury/silver amalgams been banned in most of Europe?
What are thier standards for safe amounts? I suppose that you believe PCB ingestion over a long period has no effect either...tell that to the whales washing up on the beach and the Inuit who are sterile and having more birth defects/thousand population in the world because of PCB contamination.
Just like the fact that the US still sells leaded fuel when we know it is toxic...safe levels my ass...pollution is pollution and it makes us sick...in various ways and in various forms...don't brush it off so easily...look for some non-biased (non-american) information. That paper you referred to me looks like biased info to me.I don't believe any info coming from the ADA...they promote flouridation of water for dental reasons and it's been proven that it does more harm than good with no difference between cavities in the teeth of those drinking non-flouridated water. However there was a 10% higher incidence of cancer in the flouride group than the control group over a 13-17 year period.
but to quote dannyboy from a previous string...my humble opinion is just that...my opinion. Take it or leave it for that...if you don't like the string...just move along like I do.
Just wondering if you have tried a mercury flush treatment?
Don't believe everything you read...approach it with an open mind and look for links...it's all I am doing too. I want them gone and reading voraciously to find out as much as possible and looking for ALLL possibilities. I won't dismiss it that quickly. But I will look for other causes...it's not like AHHHAAA...that must be it and focus on just that, I realize that it is only a possibility.
Acceptable exposure is subjective. A little will do nothing for some and virtually kill others...keep an open mind Ueli. Science is the way and we will find out what it is and how to fix it. Keep looking for the common denominator and try to be a bit more supportive instead of oh no not this shit again...BTW...thanks for the links. A bit more reading never hurts ('cept in a CH)
Thanks, later
Cry
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| « Last Edit: Aug 14th, 2002, 3:32pm by Cry-or-die » |
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Slammy
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Re: What is with this circadian rhythm thang?
« Reply #15 on: Aug 14th, 2002, 3:49pm » |
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on Aug 14th, 2002, 3:31pm, Cry-or-die wrote:look for some non-biased (non-american) information.
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Are you saying that non-american info is less bias? You're killing me! The European Union is campaigning to ban the use of materials such as cadmium and lead in the manufacturing of electronic equipment. They also proposed to ban the import of equipment that uses these materials. However, the European battery-maker industry raised holy hell and got an exclusion added to the EU proposal. But get this (this is good), 98% of Lead (PB) material usage is in: anyone, anyone?
......The making of batteries!.........
Friggin Americans... we are rubbing off on the Europeans!
Slammy 
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That's it! Everyone out of the pool!
" Everytime I try to get out, they PULL me back in! "
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Cry-or-die
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Re: What is with this circadian rhythm thang?
« Reply #16 on: Aug 14th, 2002, 3:50pm » |
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on Jun 13th, 2002, 3:19pm, Bob P wrote:
Family members of clusterheads are 14 times more like to have clusters than familys of non clusterheads. That tells me it's more than fillings. |
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Question BobP???
Where is this statistic from...there is no history of clusters in my family.
Cry
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Cry-or-die
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Re: What is with this circadian rhythm thang?
« Reply #17 on: Aug 14th, 2002, 5:05pm » |
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A few more links showing body parts affected by mercury
http://dentistry.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http%3A%2F%2Fwww. sukel.com%2Ffillings.htm
A book review: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/stores/detail/-/books/0967616808/re views/102-7357885-5160106#09676168085000
as well as you should take a trip back to that string you sent and look at a few of those posts like AnthonyT&Gabby too, and Ueli...your relationship of planetary cycles seems to be one of the most sensible explainations I can relate to on these Mb's... helio, lunar and planetary forces all affect gravity and other invisible forces to some degree...interesting postulation...I'll use that one in the puzzle somewhere too.
This might explain the frequency, duration and the differences between our individual circumstances ie.birthdate, time of birth, place of birth etc. Yes Ueli...very interesting thought line indeed. (anyone born on Mar 10/66? lol) Coz if you get 'em ...maybe we all suffer at the same time???
AHHHHHAHAHAHAHA...i LOVE IT!!!
There are some really great thoughts about all this stuff...verrryyy interesting indeed.
This is so fun!
Cry
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Bob P
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Re: What is with this circadian rhythm thang?
« Reply #18 on: Aug 14th, 2002, 5:07pm » |
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I believe it's from a technical article about a study conducted on heritability of CH.
It's the one I said I would look for in my files and haven't done yet. I have a file of "working stuff" with a couple hundred tech articles that I need to read through and see if I should put them in the OUCH Research Library (there is an article on heritabilty of CH already in the library).
The article doesn't say all CH is inherited. It does say that if it is in the family, then future generations are more likely to have CH than the general public is.
I try to find the article tonight.
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Mrs. Barlow, I never, and I repeat never, ever pissed in your steam iron.
"SHUT UP HUB!"
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Ueli
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Re: What is with this circadian rhythm thang?
« Reply #19 on: Aug 14th, 2002, 5:19pm » |
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on Aug 14th, 2002, 3:31pm, Cry-or-die wrote:
Furthermore....why has mercury/silver amalgams been banned in most of Europe?
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Could you please tell me were you've gotten this information. I live for more than half a century in the center of Europe and I have never heard about that.
What BobP quoted. "Family members of clusterheads are 14 times more like to have clusters than familys of non clusterheads." is from the research of Dr. Peter Goadsby. But of course you cannot believe in what an outstanding member of the medical establishment says; after all his research is partly financed by the Wellcome Trust, who holds a considerable part of the stock of the greedy GloaxoSmithKline.
The sentence "there is no history of clusters in my family" does not contradict any statement about the heritability of CH. It is only the sellers of wonder-drugs that take one (fortuitous) case of 'success' to construe a one-case statistics 'proving' the validity of their claims.
People most exposed to mercury are surely those working in mining and processing of mercury. Has your research of the mercury connection shown that the incidence of CH is particularly high in this group?
PFNADs
Ueli
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Cry-or-die
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Re: What is with this circadian rhythm thang?
« Reply #20 on: Aug 14th, 2002, 5:20pm » |
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Well I must agree that lead is bad, but it is the best for low cost batteries which we all need??? But at least they don't add it to thier gas.
Slammy---> <---cool dood, I am talking about unbiased info NOT from any of the pharmaceutical companies, American government, or the ADA or any other affiliated group that might be lobbied by such organizations. THAT is what I mean by unbiased american info. Do you grasp the influence that money has over people? Money skews results, opinions and people  ...hehehe....
I will be doing further research, but I will NOT be going out and getting all of my amalgam fillings out...I will use the chelated products first to cleanse my system before I do anything (to quote sailpappy) costly and unneccessary to fix the problem.
Question sailpappy?
After you had the teeth aforementioned extracted...did you use a mercury detoxification program to rid yourself of the bioaccumulated amount...mercury is a naturally occurring substance and so can be acquired continuously through other means such as diet, proximity to industrial areas and other sources too.
I'm not saying that it is exclusively fillings...but an accumulated effect of multiple sources, and don't get me wrong, I'm not implicating mecury exclusively..there are possibly other things to...maybe mercury isn't even one of them...it's just that my readings have implicated mercury in causeing many disfunctions within the body and the hypothalmus is one of them.
FEEEED MEEEEE!!!
lol
later
cry
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Cry-or-die
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Re: What is with this circadian rhythm thang?
« Reply #21 on: Aug 14th, 2002, 5:23pm » |
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Ueli, I'll post the URL when I backtrack the hundreds of URL's I have browsed in the last few days.
Try an chill with the attitude mate.
I have a lot of respect for the research being done by Goadsby and all the others. I just don't trust all those profit-mongering pharmaceutical giants..so forgive me and don't take offense...Some like Goadsby care about us...thier financiers however have an alterior motive and it ain't my health.
It's my opinion and I'll stick to it.
Cry
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| « Last Edit: Aug 14th, 2002, 5:32pm by Cry-or-die » |
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maria
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Re: What is with this circadian rhythm thang?
« Reply #22 on: Aug 14th, 2002, 5:49pm » |
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hey Cry and BobP,
I have a question for you which I have been wondering about. Since the CH's result from some sort of malfunctioning of the hypothalamus and the cessation of the CH's result from the hypothalamus resetting itself somehow, if you cheat the beast through taking medication, does this interfere with the hypothalamus' ability to reset itself, thus resulting in longer CH cycles or episodics turning into chronics? In my case I knew when the CH's were at their worst or peaking (the beast's grand finale) that they soon would disappear and be gone till the next year. I view the peaking period as the time when the hypothalamus starts to recognize that something is haywire and begins to reset itself. Any opinions on this would be welcome. Thanks, Maria
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Cry-or-die
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Re: What is with this circadian rhythm thang?
« Reply #24 on: Aug 14th, 2002, 7:05pm » |
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Good question Maria...I've been pondering that question lately myself, especially in respect to verapamil.
I have seen many posts from people who are on verap and it extends the cycle for some reason. Maybe it has no relevance, but I think it might interfere with the "reset" of the hypothalamus...although honestly I haven't given it much of my research time. I'm not even sure if the hypothalamus is actually resetting itself...can it do that? I dunno.
 I've seen a lot of references to the reset button in the hypothalamus in here...but no references to it outside the MB.
Just on the front of my computer box...it resets the computers hypothalamus...lol
Wonder what the chances are of getting Doc G. to wire me up with a reset switch...hmmmm
hahaha
enjoy life...it's a gift...that's why the call it 'the present'
Cry
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