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Topic: Drug Addiction (Read 1258 times) |
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nelly
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For the record, I am not a headache sufferer, but a writer seeking information. I have the following questions:
How likely/common is it for a sufferer of cluster headaches to become addicted to their medication?
Which medications are more likely to cause addictions?
I noticed on the intro page that there was a section telling people looking to buy/sell drugs to go somewhere else. What sort of of drugs would non-suffering addicts expect to receive from a sufferer?
What sort of 'high' do the addicts get from these drugs?
Thanks a lot. Any and all information will be helpful.
Nelly
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| « Last Edit: Apr 8th, 2002, 12:13pm by nelly » |
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Bob P
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Re: Drug Addiction
« Reply #1 on: Apr 8th, 2002, 11:03am » |
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The only addictive drug that comes to mind would be the narcotic painkillers.
Luckily, CH pain is too severe and the painkillers too slow in acting to be of any help to clusterheads so very few of us ever take them.
Other than that, I can't think of any other cluster drugs that are addictive and that is seldom a problem with us.
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Mrs. Barlow, I never, and I repeat never, ever pissed in your steam iron.
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Ueli
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Hi Nelly,
First of all, there is no such thing as "cluster migraines". There are cluster headaches and there are migraines and apart from the fact that both are in the head, they have very little in common. You as a writer can help us to spread this fact, it is very important for us, as the treatment for the two diseases is radically different.
The main stays for cluster treatments are:
For prevention: Verapamil and Lithium, for short time use also prednisone.
To abort an attack: oxygen and Sumatriptan.
These medications are non-addicting. (Except you want to call our efforts to get rid of the excruciating pain an addiction).
To abort a cluster attack narcotics are almost useless, nevertheless, they are sometimes prescribed by uninformed doctors.
If someone somewhere in 150,000 posts writes: "Oxycontin didn't help me" then the search engines mark a hit on a search for "Oxycontin", and the drug seekers and pedlars try to abuse our message board for their goals; hence the notice on the intro page.
You must ask these drug seekers what 'high' they expect to get, I don't know.
Ueli ;D
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athos
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Re: Drug Addiction
« Reply #3 on: Apr 8th, 2002, 2:50pm » |
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I just returned from the Mayo Clinic Arizona Headache Clinic, a world recognized headache clinic. There I saw Dr David Black and got ten times more information on clusters than I have from the bozo neurologists in Utah. He did tell me that they are finding that there is some relation with clusters and migraines and that "cluster migraines" is a term that means a person suffers from both types of headaches. Both clusters and migrains are vascular in nature, and some can be aborted with similar medications so they do have commonalities.
Athos
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Ueli
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Sorry Athos,
I don't change my mind. "Cluster migraines" is a sloppy term used by people who don't know exactly what they are taking about. True, there are some poor people that suffer both from clusters and from migraine (and we have some of them on this board), but they can tell you exactly the difference between the two diseases. Hell, I suffer besides from clusters also from diabetes. Can you tell me whether I suffer from "cluster diabetes" or from "diabetic cluster" or what? Remember, one can have lice and fleas at the same time - but these are still two different kinds of bugs, and don't merge to an unified species of "flice" or something similar.
I've said it often before, but it cannot be repeated enough:
Those who stress the few common traits of CH and M are doing us clusterheads a really bad service
Putting the two diseases in the same basket is a sign of ignorance about their cause and nature, sometimes also augmented by pecuniary interests, like our dear Dannyboy (The Great Unifier of all Headaches).
Some reasons why this is so detrimental for our cause I have explained in the thread http://www.clusterheadaches.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=general;acti on=display;num=1014912030;start=6.
PFNAD, Ueli 
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athos
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Re: Drug Addiction
« Reply #5 on: Apr 8th, 2002, 7:32pm » |
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Everyone should have an open mind to other options. They should at least listen. A wise man/woman will hear what others have to say.
I am not disagreeing that they are different. I am however ponting out that while sitting in the same room as one of the foremost authorities one headaches, Dr. David Dodick he commented on the growing group of middle ground sufferors that had both CH and M the "Cluster Migrainer".
To more support your point as a sepratist here is a quote from "The American Journal of Clinical Proceedings": I thought you might like this...
<blockquote>Although cluster headache is a distinctly separate disorder from migraine, some medications used to treat migraine are also appropriate for cluster headaches. Dr. David Dodick provides a practical guide to differentiating cluster headache from migraine as well as other trigeminal-autonomic cephalalgias. The differential diagnosis is made using the headache profile (eg, attack frequency, duration, gender ratio, and autonomic features). The headache profile also provides clues to the pathophysiology of cluster headache, a disorder thought to be localized to the hypothalamus. Cluster headache is treated with both acute and preventive therapy and, as with migraine, borrows its medications from other disease areas and different classes of drugs. A case study of a cluster headache patient is presented, followed by an edited discussion of issues surrounding specific therapies for cluster headache as well as coexisting conditions.</blockquote>
However they are related more than just the fact that they are "Just in the head". They are cousins. From a base phisiology they have some elements that are similar. Both are vascular. They both have some of the similar triggars and some similar remedies. But they deffinately varry in intensity, and duration.
Liver cancer and skin cancer differ dramatically in risk factors, treatments, and recovery, but they are both cancer, different disorders, but both cancer.
I agree with the need to treat them differently, just as liver cancer is treated differently than skin cancer.
I have been mis-diagnossed many times with migraines, sinus problems etc, one neuro even said that I was doing this for attention and trying to get out of work (if I could have hit that guy I would). I would much rather work 18-20 hour days than go through this Hell.
I think that we are getting well tooooo caught up in the symantics of what is and what should be. All I am trying to do is share what I have learned from a very reliable source.
Again they should be treated differently I don't argue that.
We are on the same team.....
-Athos
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Marc
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Re: Drug Addiction
« Reply #6 on: Apr 8th, 2002, 11:12pm » |
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Hi Athos,
I generally stay out of these types of posts (not to mention that Ueli is a hard act to follow!), but in this case I feel the need to comment:
1) It is my humble opinion that many people are being misdiagnosed as having Cluster Headaches these days. (I'm NOT referring to you) There is even a doctor on the web who talks about his own Cluster Headaches. Any Clusterhead reading his description of triggers, symptoms and choice of meds instantly knows that he is not suffering from CH’s. It’s this kind of confusion and co-mingling most of us seek to eliminate.
2) Your comment about M’s and CH’s sharing at least some triggers causes me to loop back to point number 1 above. I’m not claiming that multiple triggers don’t exist for some, but I have to question an awful lot of "trigger" posts I read on this site.
3) I think your cancer analogy is a good one, but the point is that the people are Cluster & Migraine sufferers. (I could have written it Cluster-Migraine sufferers, but that changes the meaning doesn't it) The diseases are still Cluster Headache and Migraine Headache.
I’m very open minded, and on a continual quest for information. Not trying to challenge your position, I'm just stating my opinions......
When a group is working hard for recognition of CH, sometimes the "small" points are actually big ones.
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| « Last Edit: Apr 8th, 2002, 11:43pm by Marc » |
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nelly
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These are edifying digressions, but does anyone have any opions about drug abuse among CH sufferers?
Ever hear of a sufferer using meds recreationally, say, during an extend dormant period?
Is such a thing unheard of among the community? (Or is this a subject that makes the community uncomfortable?)
Surely many of you have been accused by (well-intentioned, but ultimately mistaken and perhaps callous) doctors of faking symptoms in order to receive narcotics. I'm interested in hearing about these experiences.
nelly
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kim
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Re: Drug Addiction
« Reply #8 on: Apr 9th, 2002, 8:30am » |
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nelly,
ddn't mean to bore you...
ch is rare. many sufferers have never SEEN another ch sufferer.
what is understood thus far is that ch sufferers use MEDICINE to try and rid themselves of an illness - JUST LIKE OTHER INDIVIDUALS WITH DEBILITATNG ILLNESS.
If you are looking for drug addiction here, i doubt you'll find it within Legitimate ch community.
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athos
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Re: Drug Addiction
« Reply #9 on: Apr 9th, 2002, 8:45am » |
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Nelly,
If a person using pain medication to actually control pain are not likely to become addicted. Studies have shown that addiction comes more from a recreational use (those seeking a high) and not from actual pain control.
Hope that helps
--Athos
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Bob P
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Re: Drug Addiction
« Reply #10 on: Apr 9th, 2002, 8:51am » |
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To answer your question again, the really addictive drugs, opiates, are generally ineffective for CH and are therfore rarely used.
If your looking for drug addicts, you're in the wrong place. We just don't see it very often.
As for cluster-migraines, everything I've read on the subject says that cluster-migraines are a bunch of migrianes that cluster together. They are NOT cluster headaches.
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Mrs. Barlow, I never, and I repeat never, ever pissed in your steam iron.
"SHUT UP HUB!"
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Bob P
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Re: Drug Addiction
« Reply #11 on: Apr 9th, 2002, 9:05am » |
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Thinking about my post above raises an interesting point. I believe that clusterheads do have addictive personalities. Most are heavy smokers and heavy drinkers. There are lots of alcoholics on this message board, both recovering and active.
Wonder why we don't see more drug addiction?
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Mrs. Barlow, I never, and I repeat never, ever pissed in your steam iron.
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kim
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Re: Drug Addiction
« Reply #12 on: Apr 9th, 2002, 9:30am » |
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I see your point Bob, however, i tend to think alcoholism does not discriminate. There's alcoholism (rampant) all over the world, not just cluster headache people. Maybe it's a fluke... Nelly is looking at our illness from a standpoint of possible DRUG addiction. I think she's barking up the wrong tree. 
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Bob P
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Re: Drug Addiction
« Reply #13 on: Apr 9th, 2002, 9:58am » |
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This is an ecerpt from an article inthe OUCH Library:
"They found that specially bred mice lacking a gene involved in the brain's response to serotonin were more motivated to take cocaine than normal mice. They were also more sensitive to the drug's effects. The mutant mice also showed an increased attraction to alcohol and more impulsiveness, a trait often associated with drug abuse. That study, underscoring the role of genetics in addiction, appears in Thursday's issue of the Journal Nature. In the other study, which will appear in the June issue of the journal Nature Neuroscience, Marc Caron found evidence that cocaine's effects are not solely controlled by the dopamine system and that serotonin or some other mechanism may initiate and maintain an attraction to cocaine."
I wonder if they've ever checked clusterheads for this missing/mutant gene that helps in serotoin response?
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Mrs. Barlow, I never, and I repeat never, ever pissed in your steam iron.
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kim
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Re: Drug Addiction
« Reply #14 on: Apr 9th, 2002, 10:27am » |
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I don't know. Back to Seratonin. I think you raise a good question. Perhaps there are clues to be found in such a study.
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Karla
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Re: Drug Addiction
« Reply #15 on: Apr 9th, 2002, 11:48am » |
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I have taken percacet, vicodin, and stadol ns as needed over the last 4 years for pain relief. They can be addicting from what I am told. However, I look at it this way. My dr. will only give me so many per month and that amount will never increase. That is what we agreed apon 4 years ago because I have a past history of drug addiction problems. I have found in taking these that they are my medicine and I can't afford to get high or addicted to them because I need those pills to be there when the pain comes. When I take a pill all I am thinking about is the pain not the potential high.
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Karla
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Proud Mom of Chris USMC Semper Fi
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Donna
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Re: Drug Addiction
« Reply #16 on: Apr 9th, 2002, 12:18pm » |
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Karla:
I am proud of you!
I have known too many people who innocently used pain medications for too long a period of time, continually needing more and more to get the same relief and becoming hopelessly addicted.
It's nice to hear of a doc who discusses this with the patient BEFORE he allows this addiction to happen.
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kim
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Re: Drug Addiction
« Reply #17 on: Apr 9th, 2002, 12:44pm » |
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Hi Karla I think you are a brave soul!
When I first went to a doctor went to (GP). He was a fine doctor and a sweetheart of a man. He prescribed me most of the meds you have mentioned and believe me I took them. There were cycles I had when I was getting hit 6 to 10 times a day. The cycles lasted months. During the most difficult times, I was popping pills left and right (so for me during cycle, I did ABUSE pills, but was only trying desperately to treat the PAIN. When the torture finally ended, I pitched the pills and never looked back. Now I am older and time and experience has proven to me that pain meds (in my case) are useless in fighting ch. I FERVENTLY believe that pain pills actually make a viscious cycle even WORSE. Nausia, headaches (not ch, but resulting from narcotic use), etc.
Smiles and big hug to you Karla, feel GOOD!
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Donna
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Re: Drug Addiction
« Reply #18 on: Apr 9th, 2002, 1:17pm » |
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P.S. to my post above:
I am not referring to ch sufferers, but to some who have back injuries, etc.
Actually, I only know of a couple of ch sufferers that opiads help and they have enough sense to manage their doses. But the great majority, myself included, found no relief from ch pain using pain medications.
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nelly
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Definitely learning a lot here. From reading these responses and other boards, it sounds like I've tried to draw a line that gets a little fuzzy when you look closely. Someone who uses/abuses drugs recreationally might take LESS drug than a chronic CH suffer attempting to live without pain. I would think the difficulty in drug decisions for a CH sufferer would come during the periods of remission. 'Am I in remission because of the drugs? Or is this a natural dormant part of the cycle when I don't need to take drugs?' As a non-sufferer I can't quite empathize, but I would think I would probably take the drugs out of fear if nothing else, even if it meant that two-thrids of the time I didn't need to be taking the drugs.
Nelly.
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Donna
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Re: Drug Addiction
« Reply #20 on: Apr 9th, 2002, 1:58pm » |
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Nelly-----people who live with clusterheadaches are very sensitive to the feeling of an oncoming headache. We do not just take abortives all year long. As for the majority, we develop our own "seasons" for our cycles, usually being spring and fall for 6 to 8 weeks. There are great variations to this, but it holds true for the majority.
Therefore, it would never be necessary to take abortive medications or pain killers when out of cycle. It's a "know your body's language" kind of thing.
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Donna
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Re: Drug Addiction
« Reply #21 on: Apr 9th, 2002, 2:08pm » |
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P.S.........I am talking about the eposodic sufferer.
To learn about the chronic sufferer, why don't you post for one?
Have you read the great info on this and the OUCH site? If you are going to include a particular disease in your writing, it would be best if you were totally familiar with it.
We are desperately looking for a means of public awareness as this is a little known affliction even to most medical communities.
Read the letters in the guest book to get a feeling of what the person who just found company in his agony, after years of think he was all alone, feels. It is overwhelming. After 3 years here, I still can't get the goose bumps to stay down.
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athos
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Re: Drug Addiction
« Reply #22 on: Apr 9th, 2002, 2:25pm » |
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Nelly,
I am a chronic sufferer, I am not as bad as some, though I constant live in fear that I the beast will return. Only recently have I found some hope in some doc's that I hope will help. Before that I was on a vicious pain med cycle, some out of need, some out of fear. The fear is nearly as bad, it can trun to depression, anxiety, the list goes on.
I hope that you can find answers for the sufferer in your life......
--Athos
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Bob P
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Re: Drug Addiction
« Reply #23 on: Apr 9th, 2002, 3:21pm » |
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A word on CH cycles. I think the Spring/Fall thing is bogus. Looking at DJs survey of 10,000 people you get:
8% summer
13% spring
8%winter
13% fall
35% random
So a few more get them in Spring or Fall than get them in Summer or Winter but the vast majority get them randomly.
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Mrs. Barlow, I never, and I repeat never, ever pissed in your steam iron.
"SHUT UP HUB!"
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athos
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Re: Drug Addiction
« Reply #24 on: Apr 9th, 2002, 3:35pm » |
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how many just get them all the time???? Put me in that category 
--Athos
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