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Topic: Important Notes on "Mushroom" Therapy -- Part 1 (Read 38749 times) |
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RichardN
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Re: Important Notes on "Mushroom" Therapy -- Part
« Reply #25 on: Mar 19th, 2002, 9:06am » |
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BRAVO.......BRAVO !!! tHANK YOU Pinky - --for the info and real effort that went into the above. Am seeking source (don't think will be a problem - - - take some time though) Do you know if there are any negatives regarding the heart? I am taking 120 mg Verapamil (1 mo now) - - - was on attenelol 4 mos (no help). I have high cholesterol and frequent chest pains - - -doc won't prescribe Imitrex without stress test and that precaution has been supported by this site (til I found this site, I thought he may have assumed I was some crazed drug-fiend looking for a fix). Am scheduling same today and requesting Rx for med. oxygen - - - also increase in Verap dosage. Am 1st time chronic (1yr+), 55 yrs old. Thank you - - -damn, you guys are good!  be well, Richard
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I can live with the beast as long as I don't have to "dance" with the bastard.
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pinksharkmark
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Re: Important Notes on "Mushroom" Therapy -- Part
« Reply #26 on: Mar 19th, 2002, 3:18pm » |
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on Mar 19th, 2002, 8:09am, Flash wrote:| Don't get sucked into does or doesn't it react... the bottom line is that we don't know, and probably never will. In most cases it probably does react in some way. |
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Umm... While I agree with most of Flash's post, I believe that this is an area that leaves a bit of "wiggle room" for those hardy souls who wish to act as guinea pigs.
It is true that we may never find out ALL of the "cluster meds" that don't interfere with the action of psilocybin/psilocin or LSD, but I do believe there may be SOME that don't. For example, I think it unlikely that oxygen inhalation would make any difference. I still WANT to believe that in some cases in certain individuals low doses of Verapamil MAY not completely prevent the mushrooms from working their magic, but I admit the Verapamil thing may just be stubbornness on my part.
I agree with Flash that pretty much all of the rest of the meds in our arsenal will interact to at least some degree, since all the others work by tinkering with one neurotransmitter or another... serotonin, dopamine, acetylcholine, etc. Also, we must remember that sometimes people are taking meds for conditions other than CH that will interfere with the action of the psychedelics.
If someone wants to try taking psilocybin/psilocin or LSD while taking these other meds concurrently, it will at least provide us with some more data (most likely negative data, but data nonetheless), but with the very real risk that the experimenter will be wasting his/her time and mushrooms.
If you want to give it a shot anyway, I say go ahead, but DON'T be disappointed if it makes no difference to your CH -- you were warned in advance that the chances of success were slim. All the data accumulated so far supports the conclusion that psychedelics work best when taken by themselves... NO other accompanying meds.
pinky
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rick
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Re: Important Notes on "Mushroom" Therapy -- Part
« Reply #27 on: Mar 20th, 2002, 6:40am » |
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Pinky & Flash,
I am going to be a Guinea pig. I am currently in my 3rd bout, they develop every 2.4 years, and last about 3.5 months. This one, however, has lasted 4 months and a day so far. I have spent a lot of time taking care of myself and living a healthy lifestyle in preparation for this one. This seems to have made a difference for my case at least. In previous bouts I had two attacks a day. This time I have for the most part had only one a day, and even experienced 2-3 days at a time without even a shadow. I eat well, and I had been working out regularly.
When the bout began, I started receiving accupuncture and chiropractic treatments 3-4 times a week. I was using Imitrex(50mg tablets) and Amerge to deal with the attacks. Imitrex would work for about a week and then fail. Amerge worked great... and then would cause hellish rebounds after 3-4 days. I did two seperate tapering cycles of Methylprednisolone, each lasting 6 days, and had only one headache during each cycle.
I stopped the chiropractic and accupuncture treatments 1 month ago (a lot of $$$$ without stopping the cycle), and saw a neuro who put me on:
1. Doxepin=25mgs first 5 days, 50mgs indefinitely.
2. Depakote=500mgs to start in 3 days, then indefinitely.
3. Prednisone=50mgs tapering down to 5 after 25 days.
4. Amerge=2.5mgs, use as needed, no more than once every 4
days.
5. Lidocaine=patches, USELESS!!!
6. Oxygen=haven't picked up my tank yet.
Anyway, headaches stopped! That is, until my prednisone dosage began to taper downward.
About 2 weeks ago, shadows started coming back, getting progressively stronger. Three out of the last four days I have had attacks, also becoming progressively stronger. The first two were about 5's on the Kip scale. Today I got popped with a 7. Bad trend. This past Saturday, I woke up with the first one, and had a lingering shadow all day. Saturday night, I sprinkled some uncooked mushroom bits into cooked pasta. I definitely reached level one, felt GREAT all night, and good all day Sunday. I don't know, unfortunately, exactly how much I took, as I don't have a scale (I'll be looking for one tomorrow). It was a small amount though.
I have one problem in trying this therapy free of meds at the moment. Their are two doctors looking after me. One of them happens to be one of my parents, and would actually be very understanding about what I want to attempt. Unfortunately, for a variety of personal reasons, now is not the right time to bring it up. Beyond that, I REALLY want to do my homework on the matter before I discuss it.
As of right now, I am continuing with the Depakote and Doxepin. I have however not begun taking Topomax, which has since been prescribed to me, for the very reason that I want to attempt the mushroom therapy. When I got hit with the cluster today, I took nothing and toughed it out. Two Aleve actually did the trick for my lower level attack on Monday (I was shocked, maybe it was helped out by the other meds). As Pinky has listed anti-inflamitories under "probably not" detrimental to the therapy, I will try to fall back on these if necessary. I'll do my best to not take anything else.
I appreciate the advice very much, you have both been on this road longer than I have, and I am sure I will have many more questions. If I can help out in any other way, let me know. I have previous experience with psychedelics for recreational use, but those days are behind me. I have been reading as much as I can, and know that I have far more to learn. My health is not something I would play around with, and all I have read so far appears very valid. I fully understand that this may not work at all, but due to the fact that ch has been wreaking havoc on my life, I want to try it now. I have been pumped full of medications. Outside of the steroids which I have not been allowed to continue taking for fear of side affects, the drugs have made me nothing but sick after barely working for short periods of time. If the mushrooms don't work this time, I'll try the proper method at the beginning of my next bout.
I last dosed on Saturday, and was pleased with the results. I would like to wait until Thursday to give myself the full 5 days, but was thinking that if I get hit harder tomorrow,
session two will be tomorrow night. I hope we can all learn something from this.
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pinksharkmark
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Re: Important Notes on "Mushroom" Therapy -- Part
« Reply #28 on: Mar 20th, 2002, 10:46am » |
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Rick, thank you for the very detailed report. Your description of the CH returning once the corticosteroid dose dropped below a certain threshold is familiar to many of us, I am sure.
If you took just a small dose of mushrooms on Saturday, it might be fine to take a larger amount on Wednesday, rather than waiting another day. The waiting period varies from individual to individual, and likely is also partially dose-dependent. The absolute minimum waiting period, no matter what, is 72 hours, though. I suggest taking this next dose on an empty stomach rather than mixing it with food. Food hampers the absorption of the psilocybin, and increases the chance that nausea might be a problem.
I also recommend staying away from Amerge. All of the triptans are quite similar to psilocybin in their chemical structure (for example sumatriptan -Imitrex- is basically sulfonated DMT, while psilocybin is phosphorylated DMT) so I believe their potential for interference is very high. Amerge, in particular, is problematical since it has a very long halflife.
As for the rest of the meds... I don't know. Doxepin would be the one I would be most concerned with, since it is a tri-cyclic antidepressant. Depakote is an SSRI, so there will likely be some interaction there as well.
See: http://www.clusterheadaches.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=general;acti on=display;num=1015619804
One of my posts toward the end of that thread lists some tricyclics and SSRIs that have been found to either increase or decrease the psychedelic effects of psilocybin/psilocin and LSD.
But if you want to go ahead and try the mushrooms anyway, your data will certainly be of help to us.
Thanks again for the excellent report.
pinky
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Flash
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Re: Important Notes on "Mushroom" Therapy -- Part
« Reply #29 on: Mar 21st, 2002, 6:58am » |
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I believe that many CH medications actually go some way towards prolonging the duration of the cluster. I also believe that this is more likely to be the case when several medications are taken either back to back or as a cocktail.
The best analogy I can come up with is indigestion/heartburn caused by excessive alchohol:
Imagine that you go out drinking, and next day your stomach feels a little unhappy. Now some of us would just ride this out, drinking a few glasses of water.
Others might perhaps be tempted to try hair of the dog - this works at first but then the heartburn comes back with a vengence.
Next some soothing milk is added but oops that produces more acid and the symtoms get worse.
Next straight onto the calcium carbonate antacids. These work for a couple of hours, but as soon as some food is consumed it's back to square one - only worse.
By this time things have gained their own momentum and life is barely worth living.
In steps our hero (the mushroom of the acid indigestion world) - Zantac (Ranitidine Hydrochloride). Now Zantac can kill acid indigestion at a single stroke, but sometimes it takes more than one go. However the Zantac will usually fail unless the stomach is also given a rest. Should the idiot continue to throw down more milk, antacids, hair of the dog, spicey kebabs etc then the Zantac will fail.
It's the same with mushrooms. Yes they can kill CH with one blast - but that is under ideal conditions. They should not be considered as an act of faith.
Hallucinogenics are a stand alone treatment in their own right. They must be treated with the same respect as any other medication. If you doctor says don't mix ergotamine and triptans then you don't... So why the fuck do people insist on mixing shrooms with anything else.
Remember the old saying 'more haste less speed'?
It's the same with this treatment. The absolute bottom line is that people should make a concious decision whether or not to try hallucinogenic treatment prior to the onset of their episode.
It's different for chronics, but bearing in mind that chronic CH can last decades, is a 5 day detox period followed by up to a month without medication too much to ask for a remission that may later be sustained with subsequent doses of hallucinogen.
Although I welcome any data, my concern is that people are not giving this treatment a fair chance. Most people seem keen to take their chances and gobble down everything they can get their hands on. That's a very short sighted approach and people are simply cheating themselves out of a decent remission.
The only thing that half assed use of the hallucinogens proves is that they have some sort of effect of CH.
Lets face it, very few of the conventional treatments are worth taking. In most cases we are simply robbing Peter to pay Paul. Trust me the headaches are actually more bearable without any medication. The years I have tried medication other than hallucinogens my episode has stretched from 1 month to 2 months.
I agree with pinky that O2 is the least likely to affect hallucinogens, but I'd draw the line at pretty much everything else - that includ analgesics... those will only exacerbate the condition.
I believe the survey result will bear me out.
Flash
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rick
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Re: Important Notes on "Mushroom" Therapy -- Part
« Reply #30 on: Mar 21st, 2002, 11:40pm » |
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I felt like hell all day Tuesday and yesterday. I went to work, got hit with a Kip 8 headache, which dropped to a 5 by the time I got home. Heeding Pinky's advice, I skipped dinner and dosed on an empty stomach. I found a head shop that sold scales so that I can weigh my doses, but they won't have them in until next week. So I carefully eyed out what I took on a plate to keep track of the amount.
I took twice the amount I had taken this past Saturday. This sent me to level three in about a half hour, gauging this on my hallucinations plus the three dimensional patterns I saw when I closed my eyes. My headache dropped down to about a 2 for an hour, and as the effects of the mushrooms began to fade, I felt TOTAL relief of all pain. Took my Doxepin and Depakote later and went to sleep.
Woke up today feeling like hell. I took two Aleve, and the ch faded, but I had a left side tension headache (all my ch's are on my right side). Shadow reappeared on the way to work, and blew up again to an 8. Talked to one of my managers, I was going to leave early, and then the headache completely disappeared about 5 minutes later. Not in the manner of an attack ending, when I don't take any medication I'm at a 7-8 for maybe an hour or longer, which drops down to 5 for the rest of the day with no let up. Today, I experienced relief similar to what I felt the night before at the end of my dose. It felt like someone flipped a switch in my head, and the pain was gone. I felt the best I've felt since before my cycle began 4 months ago. Since I came home, no pain other than the occasional tremor of shadow, which only lasts a minute or two.
In my two previous bouts, I didn't take a lot of drugs other than the triptans and analgesics, which I did my best to use as sporadically as possible. In my second bout, I received multiple chiropractic treatments each week, and went on a cleansing diet. I spent the first 3 months of this bout reiceiving chiropractic and accupuncture treatments, eating well, focusing on a consistent sleeping pattern, stretching out for about an hour each night, and again trying to limit use of the painkillers. I know the last part of this is the hardest, but, as I stated in my previous post, I was able to have 2-3 days at a time of normalcy, where I didn't even need them.
This has been my least painful and headache ridden cycle of the three. I attribute this to my lifestyle. I am a martial artist and a health freak. I drank alcohol 5-6 times a year and coffee 5 days a week, and I am now giving up both. I'm fighting this m*th*rf**k*r with all I have and I will not quit ever. I know my choice of lifestyle is not the total answer, but it seems to have some effect.
It is not my desire to be saturated with meds, but this is the first time I have given it a try. I was trying to avoid it, but I had to see for myself. I have been off steroids for three days now, and I can for the first time discern that both meds I am currently on are not working. They are in fact making me sick, weak, and fatigued. Unfortunately, as much as I would like to stop taking them, both contain the phrase DO NOT DISCONTINUE WITHOUT CONSULTING YOUR PHYSICIAN in bold print in the literature provided with them. I know that in the case of steroids, discontinuation of a cycle can be problematic, and even fatal, so I am not about to discontinue these meds without consulting a doctor. Unfortunately, my neuro is on vacation this week. I have tried to reach my primary care physician (my step-mother), but could not reach her, so I will try again tomorrow.
She happens to be one of the people that I respect the most in my life, and it would be difficult at this point to call her and explain "Hey, I read on the internet that if I take psychedelics, I could get this under control, so I'm going to stop all my meds, what do you think?".
I will discuss this with her when the time is right and I have done all my homework. I am going to explain to her in the meantime that these meds make me sick, and, at this point, I felt better before I started them.
Thus far, I have felt positive results from use of the mushrooms. Again I realise that I may not experience the full benefits from them while on the meds, but I am grateful for what they have done for me so far. I was going to take next week off of work again, but feel as though I can make it now. Due to my current financial circumstances, I can't afford to miss any more work. I am a bartender (no work, no tips, no $$$$). It was recommended that I have enough for five good doses. I have enough for about 20, with more on the way next week (my friends have rallied around my cause).
I am very new to this site. I have chosen this path of treatment because Pinky has presented a very sound argument toward it's benefits. I am dosing again on Sunday, and I'm going to push myself to go without any pain killers until then.
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Flash
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Re: Important Notes on "Mushroom" Therapy -- Part
« Reply #31 on: Mar 22nd, 2002, 7:58am » |
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Rick,
My last message wasn't specifically directed towards you, but at the wider audience.
I fully respect the other things you are tying, such as keeping in shape, avoiding legal drugs, and minding your sleep pattern. I agree that these things all do help a bit.
I'm glad that you have also confirmed that the prescription drugs are making you sick. In my opinion anything that screws around with the body too much will make the CH worse, in the same way that keeping healthy helps things.
Certainly it looks like you are seing some substantial disruption to the cycle. This is a positive sign - it shows that the shrooms are making life difficult for the headaches. Often a remission arrives around 48 hours after your last trip. I think the reason for this is that the hallucinogens screw up the body a little, and thus temp aggravate the CH. Afterwords the body seems to sort itself out - almost as a reaction to the hallucinogen.
Remember that the hallucinogens work on 2 levels. Firstly they are a vascular constrictor, and similar in action to triptans and ergotamine. This is why they often abort a headache in progress, and also why people rarely suffer a headache during a trip (although this can happen - vascular constriction is never enough to tame a determined CH).
Secondly they seem to shock the body into sorting it's own chemistry out. It's like the shock of tripping makes the body realise that it's serontonin regulation is out of whack. This is probably because psilocin spoofs serotonin. The body suddenly goes "Shit - where'd all this serotonin come from? I better get this under control!". It usually takes a couple of days to recover from a trip, and it's during this period that the headaches suffer some strange disruption, just as you have described. Though sometimes we get lucky and the episode just ends 30 minutes after ingestion.
The key indicator is whether the headaches improve or degenerate over this 48 hour period. If they improve then you have tipped the scales and are heading for remission - otherwise better luck next time.
There is also a get out of jail free card. On occasion myself and others have failed to tip the scales, and run out of shrooms, only for the episode to terminate prematurely within10 days or so. The downside is that the headaches are total fuckin hell for that 10 days 
Keeping my fingers crossed for you.
Flash
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Flash
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Re: Important Notes on "Mushroom" Therapy -- Part
« Reply #32 on: Mar 22nd, 2002, 8:09am » |
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Also,
On the drug interaction front. Some cluster medications such as predisone are essentially trying to stabilise the body's chemistry. The problem here is that psilocin does exactly the opposite - it shocks the body's chemistry waking the body up to the situation... it's the body that stabilises it's own chemistry with this treatment.
For my money that puts predisone at odds with hallucinogens. They are conflicting objectives.
The same may also be true of verapamill.
At the end of the day, a lot will depend on the individual involved. Not everyone's body will respond to the shock of halluinogenic drugs in every instance.
I believe it is important to give the treatment the best possible chance by taking it on a clean system. Also if the first go only produces some disruption, then keep trying at 5 day intervals. If the first go doesn't work then try an alternative hallucinogen. Most prescription drugs have several alternatives that work in a similar fashion. These alternatives are available because some drugs may prove ineffective, or cause nasty side effects in certain individuals. Hallucinogens are no exception. If shrooms don't work then LSD, mescaline, or DMT might.
Some hallucinogens may also be purchase legally.
Flash
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pinksharkmark
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Re: Important Notes on "Mushroom" Therapy -- Part
« Reply #33 on: Mar 22nd, 2002, 8:19am » |
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on Mar 21st, 2002, 11:40pm, rick wrote:| I took twice the amount I had taken this past Saturday. This sent me to level three in about a half hour, gauging this on my hallucinations plus the three dimensional patterns I saw when I closed my eyes. |
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Sounds like you ended up with a little more than you had anticipated. This shows the drawbacks to "eyeballing" a dose rather than weighing it. Or, the effects may have been increased by the Doxepin (a tri-cyclic antidepressant) in your system. Hard to say.
Quote:| Woke up today feeling like hell. I took two Aleve, and the ch faded, but I had a left side tension headache (all my ch's are on my right side). |
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A "tension" or "hangover" type headache is not uncommon after a "Level 3" or higher dose of mushrooms, but standard aspirin or tylenol will get rid of it easily. Once you hit the higher levels, where the psychedelic effects become more noticeable, you also need to get a really good night's sleep... ten hours or more... or you will feel physically fatigued the next day.
Quote:| Today, I experienced relief similar to what I felt the night before at the end of my dose. It felt like someone flipped a switch in my head, and the pain was gone. I felt the best I've felt since before my cycle began 4 months ago. Since I came home, no pain other than the occasional tremor of shadow, which only lasts a minute or two. |
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Sounds like the psilocybin/psilocin had some effect, even though there were other meds present in your body at the time of dosing. Promising! My guess is that if you can taper off the Doxepin and Depakote before your next dose, you may be able to finish off The Beast completely.
Quote:| I have been off steroids for three days now, and I can for the first time discern that both meds I am currently on are not working. They are in fact making me sick, weak, and fatigued. |
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That is the Hobson's Choice most of us are faced with. Bouts of agony from The Beast, or debilitating and ongoing side-effects from powerful prescription medications. Tough decision.
Quote:| I am very new to this site. I have chosen this path of treatment because Pinky has presented a very sound argument toward it's benefits. I am dosing again on Sunday, and I'm going to push myself to go without any pain killers until then. |
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It is possible that you may not need another dose. It is not uncommon for the day after a dose of mushrooms to be filled with shadows and "non-typical" headaches. There are many reports from people who thought the first dose was insufficient, but had steady improvements over the next several days, and when day 5 was reached, found the headaches were gone. By all means be prepared to dose again, but don't be surprised if you don't have to.
If it were me, I would start tapering off the Doxepin and Depakote right away. I don't mean you should stop "Cold Turkey" without speaking to a doctor, but I doubt it would be dangerous to at least drop the dosages a bit. After all, people DO stop taking these meds, right? And any conscientious physician will tell you that the idea with ANY daily med is to find the minimum effective dose. All good doctors are conservative when it comes to prescribing heavy-duty drugs.
pinky
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rick
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Re: Important Notes on "Mushroom" Therapy -- Part
« Reply #34 on: Mar 23rd, 2002, 12:23am » |
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Today I woke up feeling like hell... until I got out of bed and began moving around. Then I felt fine. I felt great. I was at level 1 on the kip scale, feeling minor spells of shadows coming and going. I got popped with a level 6 at about 1:00 P. M., which lasted about an hour. Although it was strange, in that time, I had customers at the bar, and we were talking and laughing. No one could tell. Typically, my co workers can tell when I am getting hit. It was odd, I had level 6 pain, but I was totally able to blow it off. After an hour, all the pain vanished again. An hour after that, it came back, and I've been bouncing back and forth from 0-3 since then. All symptoms appear to be diminishing.
My step-mother is attending a wedding this weekend, and I am unable to reach her to discuss my meds. So I went on line to investigate Depakote, and I realised that the manufacturer is Abbott. It did not occur to me, and this is almost a ridiculous coincidence: my friends living in the apartment above me work for Abbott, and it turned out that one of them handled testing for Depakote. The advice they gave me was stop the Depakote, because it obviously wasn't helping and was making me feel like hell. I was warned though, to be careful with the Doxepin, and to taper down the dosage over a period of days. This is primarily due to the fact that ch is related to problems with seritonin levels. I also explained my new therapy, and one of them has been having migraines, so I directed him to the Erowid website.
So I am stopping the Depakote tonight. I am currently taking (sorry, I listed the wrong dosage in a previous post) 100 mgs of Doxepin, which I will reduce tomorrow to 50 mgs, and take that for five days. This is the reverse of how I began the medication. I still plan on dosing Sunday. I could wait until Monday, but I have to work Tuesday morning. I am off Sunday and Monday, and dosing Sunday would give me Monday to recuperate if necessary.
Yes, these drugs are most definitely making me sick, and I really do believe at this point that they are making my cycle worse. I forgot to mention in my last post that I had also tried Verapamil. At the start of the cycle, my step-mother recommended it on the advice of some neuros (her focus is internal medicine). I really didn't want to, but after a month into this cycle, I gave it a try. Three weeks later, I almost blacked out while reading a book. I was only on 120 mgs a day. I have totally normal blood pressure, and my current neuro commented that I am "in excellent shape, other than the ch". Again, the Verapamil did not put even a dent in my headaches.
Meds have done NOTHING positive for me other than prednisone which is only a short term solution, and even that seemed to be causing joint problems for me at the end of my last dosage. You are right Flash, I would rather stay off all meds other than getting by on triptans on and off when necessary. Oh yeah, I tried an experiment of taking Amerge three days in a row as a preventitive, and ended up in the ER with the worst rebound of my life on day four.
Pinky, I think my jump in the levels experienced while dosing on Wednesday could be attributed to taking the mushrooms on a completely empty stomach. It was not a big deal, I've reached higher levels back in my "recreational days", and have always had an "eye of the storm" feeling of calm in those situations. It felt to me as though the higher dosage was more beneficial, what do you think? Funny that Thursday morning, when I took the Aleve, the cluster diminished but not the tension headache. Those have been coming and going, maybe from the feeling of dehydration I'm getting from the doxepin? Who knows. I don't necessarily want to oversleep though, I've actually been having a hard time sleeping soundly, and my friends from Abbott said Depakote would make me hyperactive. There may be a connection there also. There are so many variables with this condition it's hard for me to pin down cause and effect with all the symptoms we experience. My headaches have definitely been atypical since I began the therapy, that is certain.
Flash, one question that my friends from Abbott had asked, and I myself do not know: what is DMT? Again, I want to thank you both for your "coaching", the information you are providing has been invaluable to me.
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pinksharkmark
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Re: Important Notes on "Mushroom" Therapy -- Part
« Reply #35 on: Mar 23rd, 2002, 1:27am » |
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on Mar 23rd, 2002, 12:23am, rick wrote:| It felt to me as though the higher dosage was more beneficial, what do you think? |
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It wouldn't surprise me. We have had reports from two chronics who got relief of only a week or two each time they did a low dose, who then did BIG doses and got relief for months. I believe each individual has a "threshhold" dose that is required to halt a cycle. Very small doses will abort individual headaches (several reports now of people putting a small piece of dried mushroom under the tongue and aborting individual headaches this way -- like a natural Imitrex), slightly larger doses will alter the nature of the cycle and reduce the intensity and severity of the headaches, while still larger doses (especially "back-to-back" doses) will end the cycle. This seems to support the "threshhold" hypothesis, as does common sense.
Quote:| Flash, one question that my friends from Abbott had asked, and I myself do not know: what is DMT? Again, I want to thank you both for your "coaching", the information you are providing has been invaluable to me. |
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DMT is di-methyl triptamine. It is a hallucinogen in the same family as psilocybin, psilocin, bufotenin, 5 MeO-DMT, and others. It is the only known endogenous hallucinogen; that is to say it occurs naturally in small amounts in the human body. It is also the only known hallucinogen that doesn't exhibit the self-limiting factor that psilocybin and LSD do. In other words, it can be ingested repeatedly at very short intervals with no loss of effect. It is structurally very similar to serotonin. Imitrex (sumatriptan) is basically sulfonated DMT, psilocybin is phosphorylated DMT.
DMT is the active ingredient in the divinatory drink "ayahuasca" which is used ritually by the shamans of several South American tribes. It is found in several vines and plants in South America. Here is a comparison between the DMT molecule and the serotonin molecule:
http://www.erowid.org/cgi-bin/chem_compare/chem_compare.cgi?LM=_ch_dmt_i a_dmt_3d_mid.jpg&RM=_ch_other_ia_serotonin_3d_mid.jpg
and here is DMT and psilocin:
http://www.erowid.org/cgi-bin/chem_compare/chem_compare.cgi?LM=_ch_dmt_i a_dmt_3d_mid.jpg&RM=_pl_mushrooms_ia_psilocin_3d_mid.jpg
Notice that DMT and psilocin differ by a single atom of oxygen; otherwise they are identical. Some people have speculated that the reason mushrooms work has nothing to do with the fact that psilocin resembles serotonin, but rather that it so closely resembles DMT. Their argument is that if DMT occurs naturally in the body, then it is possible that clusterheads have an imbalance of DMT. When one takes a dose of mushrooms, the psilocin molecules occupy the neural receptor sites that DMT normally would, correcting this imbalance. To the best of my knowledge, no one has done a comparison of the levels of DMT in clusterheads vs the levels of DMT in normal humans.
Interesting, no?
pinky
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maria
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Re: Important Notes on "Mushroom" Therapy -- Part
« Reply #36 on: Mar 23rd, 2002, 10:27pm » |
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Hey Pinky,
I am fascinated by your research on our and your behalf. After 22 years of episodic clusters (by the the way what is CPH?), happening usually every spring, I have only had one in the last seven years. I speculate this change could be due to prozac, beta blockers, increased exposure to natural light. You living on the Island of Hispanola might not experience this, but S.A.D. (Seasonal Affective Disorder) is a common factor in our sun limited latitude particularly in the winter months. How does the prozac, beta blockers, natural sun light etc. fit your paradigm for beating the damned beast? In reading your mail on shrooms I am ready to sign up rather than reaching for Prozac at the first sign of the cycle. The shrooms grow in the wild here and I might be able to score easier here than growing my own. They were in our new grass of a previous home. I had to chase away the teen-age harvesters. A friend of ours tried them and gave glowing reviews. Signing up for next mushroom class in the NW. Pinky, I respect your opinion, Maria
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pinksharkmark
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Re: Important Notes on "Mushroom" Therapy -- Part
« Reply #38 on: Mar 26th, 2002, 12:57am » |
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on Mar 23rd, 2002, 10:27pm, maria wrote:| How does the prozac, beta blockers, natural sun light etc. fit your paradigm for beating the damned beast? |
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Prozac is a serotonergic drug -- it modifies serotonin levels, which are out of whack in us clusterheads. Beta blockers probably work the same way that calcium channel blockers work, just not as well. I get plenty of natural sunlight here, and the hours of daylight are pretty much constant all year round. I still get clusters. To the best of my knowledge SAD has nothing to do with them. It certainly has nothing to do with mine.
Quote:| The shrooms grow in the wild here and I might be able to score easier here than growing my own. They were in our new grass of a previous home. I had to chase away the teen-age harvesters. A friend of ours tried them and gave glowing reviews. Signing up for next mushroom class in the NW. |
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The most potent species of psilocybe is Psilocybe azurescens, and it is pretty common in the Pacific Northwest, as is Psilocybe cyanescens, another very potent species. Problem is, neither of them can be cultivated indoors, and the outdoor ones won't be around till the autumn. On the other hand, Psilocybe cubensis is dead simple and dirt cheap to cultivate indoors. It can take as little as 28 to 35 days to grow a crop. But the US government says it is illegal to do so. They also say it is illegal to pick the ones that grow in the grass of your previous home. Daddy knows best.
pinky
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maria
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Re: Important Notes on "Mushroom" Therapy -- Part
« Reply #39 on: Mar 26th, 2002, 8:59pm » |
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Thanks flash and pinky,
It is still a puzzle about my CH. Was it prozac, beta blockers or what that sent the beast away. One article suggested that hypertension could be the clue. Hypertension related (hypalgesia) reducuded sensitivity to the brain and spinal cord (webMD) Would not mind growing my own but how do you explain them to your totally straight teen age sons. Thanks, Maria
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rick
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Re: Important Notes on "Mushroom" Therapy -- Part
« Reply #40 on: Mar 26th, 2002, 9:47pm » |
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After two solid doses of psilocybin (this past Sunday and last Wednesday), my headaches have been tamed, to say the least. All symptoms have diminished by about 50%, and the ch's are tolerable. That is something I never thought I would say. I only get hit once a day for an hour, and it is no more than an annoyance.
I've had no shadow for three days now, the attacks themselves just pop up and then fade out. Yesterday, I took a small piece of a cap at the onset of the headache. I had just eaten a full meal, and it would have taken a while to digest anyway. The attack was over in an hour, so I really couldn't tell if it made a difference. Just an experiment, I got the idea from reading Monique & Greg's experiences. I don't think I'll try it again. I feel that for me, the process will work best with the four to five day intervals. Anytime I have used any of the medications excessively, I have only felt worse, and I am treating psilocybin with the same respect.
Speaking of that, I've only felt better and more energetic since discontinuing the Depakote this past Friday. I have tapered down my dosage of Doxepin from 50 mgs to 25 mgs. I'm still feeling very dehydrated from it, and will be done with it on Wednesday. My bout should have been finished almost a month ago, and I've got a feeling saturating my system with the meds has a lot to do with this cycle's extension.
I have not given up on the meds entirely, I still intend to keep an open mind toward everything, but I have felt relief from the moment I began the mushroom therapy. More so than from anything I've tried since my ch's began. It may be possible that my cycle is running it's course and coming to a finish, but I doubt it. The reason being that when I used a solid dose of psilocybin last Wednesday (hitting level 3), I could physically feel the cycle switch directions within my body. Also, before that evening I still got hit pretty hard on the days right before and the day after. This is contrary to the way my previous two bouts closed out, where I was feeling the way I've felt over the last four days. And I hope this is a sign, because I want to start working out again, among other things. Peace.
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rick
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Re: Important Notes on "Mushroom" Therapy -- Part
« Reply #41 on: Mar 28th, 2002, 8:34pm » |
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ALL IS WELL!!!! thank you thank you thank you my friends Pinky and Flash...
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scottie
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Re: Important Notes on "Mushroom" Therapy -- Part
« Reply #42 on: Jul 8th, 2002, 10:12am » |
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Hey gang,
I am only bumping this back to the top so newbies can find it easier.
Scottie
PFDAN  ;D
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scottie
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Re: Important Notes on "Mushroom" Therapy -- Part
« Reply #43 on: Jul 18th, 2002, 11:25pm » |
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Ditto. ;D
Scottie
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